Guild Wars 2

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/robert-hrouda-on-upcoming-changes-to-dungeon-mechanics/

So far, we only seen AC to get the treatment. meanwhile, several other dungeons remain with boss featuring boring facetaking mechanics, bad rewards and huge hp sponges/time wasters(dredge fractal comes into mind).

Has this been completely forgotten? Sometimes it feels that because of the current trend of living story, we aren’t getting any more love to the other departments of the game. No more new paths, no more items, no more nothing. It really saddens what has come to happen, because i really enjoyed the new AC. Robert Hrouda used to post here almost everyday, and now we barely see him anymore.

He’s off having a ball with the living story super fun happy time.

Dungeons are broken in GW2 regardless of any overhauls. The reward system (all dungeons give same rewards) combined with the dramatic difference in time required (thanks largely to the ANet endorsed ability to skip trash) results in a 1-2 paths that get run repeatedly and 20+ others that get completely neglected. I see no indication that ANet is even thinking about addressing any of this and they’ll just be squandering resources tweaking dungeons to no effect until they do.

Yaki.9563:

Dungeons are broken in GW2 regardless of any overhauls. The reward system (all dungeons give same rewards) combined with the dramatic difference in time required (thanks largely to the ANet endorsed ability to skip trash) results in a 1-2 paths that get run repeatedly and 20+ others that get completely neglected. I see no indication that ANet is even thinking about addressing any of this and they’ll just be squandering resources tweaking dungeons to no effect until they do.

There are actually only 3 paths in the game that you can complete in like 6-8 minutes and that’s AC p1, CoF p1 and SE p1 (not including CoF p2 gateskipping, but I don’t know if that’s gotten patched or not).

All of the other ones, except for Arah p1 (~20-25mins) and Arah p4 (30-45mins) take about the same amount of time (10-15mins) with a good group. It’s just that PUGs are terrible and don’t know how to run dungeons fast and efficiently.

Imo, they should focus more on a reward overhaul in the sense of rewarding the harder dungeons (Arah mainly) more. Preferably in the way they rewarded GW1 dungeons: unique, tradeable dungeon skins that only drop in certain dungeons/paths. The system worked very well, because it revolved around supply and demand: the easy dungeons with mediocre skins were overfarmed by PUGs, meaning the skins were worth little, while the somewhat harder dungeons had the best skins, which had lower supply, thus were worth more.

Yaki.9563:

I see no indication that ANet is even thinking about addressing any of this and they’ll just be squandering resources tweaking dungeons to no effect until they do.

I don’t see any reason to make this assumption at all. They changed AC pretty quickly didn’t they? I’m sure they are still planning to change the other dungeons soon. And in Fractals and Molten Facility skipping was most definitely discouraged.

But maybe the other dungeons take a bit more work that AC, and a bit more testing. It is also quite possible that they are working on improvements that affect all dungeons, like perhaps new loot tables. I’m hoping this is the case, because we do need much better rewards in dungeons.

I’m also still hoping for a Fractal-style option for different difficulty levels. Allow us to play the dungeons in really easy mode, and extra hard mode. And make our ascended gear matter in higher level dungeons, and not just Fractals.

Bright.9160:

There are actually only 3 paths in the game that you can complete in like 6-8 minutes and that’s AC p1, CoF p1 and SE p1 (not including CoF p2 gateskipping, but I don’t know if that’s gotten patched or not).

All of the other ones, except for Arah p1 (~20-25mins) and Arah p4 (30-45mins) take about the same amount of time (10-15mins) with a good group. It’s just that PUGs are terrible and don’t know how to run dungeons fast and efficiently.

There are perfectly valid points in your post so mine isn’t about destroying everything you said at all.

But you shouldn’t use speed runs as the base reference of the time needed to complete a dungeon. Strife’s speed run of Arah p4 is a 42 minutes video with a full optimized guild group with guys that probably have run it 10+ times and have hundreds of hours of experience in dungeons. Using that as a base reference for how long this dungeon takes is almost as relevant as using Usain Bolt’s performances to compare with your own. I was invited by a full guild group to do Arah p4, with vocal comm, and we took 1h40 to do it. My own guild mates took 3 hours.

There are other paths in some dungeons that take much more time that 15 minutes, for example SE2 (even Strife’s group took 24 minutes, average groups will probably need kitten minutes), or paths 2-3 of HotW (probably 30 minutes with a normal group).

For the rest I agree with you. We recently ran a dungeon even in my guild and did CoE p1 (25 minutes), CoF p1 (9 minutes), SE p1 (11 minutes) and HotW p1 (18 minutes) in ~ 70 minutes (not optimized group but decent builds & players). That was fun, not all dungeons should take 1h+ like Arah and Fractals . Too bad that, aside from Fractals, you aren’t rewarded for doing the more complicated/long ones.

Ouroboros.5076:

But you shouldn’t use speed runs as the base reference of the time needed to complete a dungeon. Strife’s speed run of Arah p4 is a 42 minutes video with a full optimized guild group with guys that probably have run it 10+ times and have hundreds of hours of experience in dungeons. Using that as a base reference for how long this dungeon takes is almost as relevant as using Usain Bolt’s performances to compare with your own. I was invited by a full guild group to do Arah p4, with vocal comm, and we took 1h40 to do it. My own guild mates took 3 hours.

Actually, you should. You should look at how fast you CAN do it, then look at how much effort and experience it takes to actually do it that fast, and then reward the paths accordingly. Not to mention, I didn’t use Strife’s times as a reference, I used the times I run dungeons in usually.

Not to mention, Arah p4 can be done in 30mins, that 42min video is hella old. They have a 30min vid, Strife just refuses to commentate it because he got bored of the game and doesn’t care anymore. (although admittedly, I’ve never done Arah p4 in 30 minutes, but I’m pretty confident that if I learned the tactics, I could do it.)

Ouroboros.5076:

Too bad that, aside from Fractals, you aren’t rewarded for doing the more complicated/long ones.

Dingding, we got a winner!! Dungeon runners have been saying this since launch. You don’t get rewarded for your effort in doing dungeons. No matter how fast you can clear Arah or Fractals, you’ll always be outdone by the mindnumbingly easy paths because the dungeon reward system doesn’t reward skill.

I did Arah for the armor. I liked the art design there too. Sometimes, just run it if you really want and don’t alwasy think about a reward. There is nothing anyway you can work for (aside maybe Legendary for some ppl like me) since there is not better gear.

i hope they saw the mess they did with AC and started to rethink their plan….
AC change was the worst dungeon change since release.

LordByron.8369:

i hope they saw the mess they did with AC and started to rethink their plan….
AC change was the worst dungeon change since release.

AC got easier. PUGs got worse.

LordByron.8369:

i hope they saw the mess they did with AC and started to rethink their plan….
AC change was the worst dungeon change since release.

I personally really like the changes to AC, but I agree this is what happened to phase 2. It was clearly indicated that other changes were soon to follow and then we’ve seen nothing since Feburary(?). There was so much QQ on the forums over that, it’s likely they axed it. That’s all well and good, and I can understand changing direction based on feedback.

But shame on you ArenaNet for ignoring us. What the heck? Fractals threads have gone on for many months. CoF threads, many months. Lack of rewards across the board, except for a select few paths. And then the only thing we’ve seen is fixing very low-priority bugs like pulling mobs in dredge fractal that fractal even less bearable. Was there no way to just drop in and acknowledge us a little with some general plans?

I’m still holding out hope that the decision was made to do this all at the same time, when the reward structure changed, and that we’ll see something good. Something that will get people to stop saying GW2 has no end game, which honestly is pretty true once you finish up DM title/FotM to a reasonable level.

But you can’t erase the complete disregard for communication with dungeon-goers.

Ouroboros.5076:

Bright.9160:

There are actually only 3 paths in the game that you can complete in like 6-8 minutes and that’s AC p1, CoF p1 and SE p1 (not including CoF p2 gateskipping, but I don’t know if that’s gotten patched or not).

All of the other ones, except for Arah p1 (~20-25mins) and Arah p4 (30-45mins) take about the same amount of time (10-15mins) with a good group. It’s just that PUGs are terrible and don’t know how to run dungeons fast and efficiently.

There are perfectly valid points in your post so mine isn’t about destroying everything you said at all.

But you shouldn’t use speed runs as the base reference of the time needed to complete a dungeon. Strife’s speed run of Arah p4 is a 42 minutes video with a full optimized guild group with guys that probably have run it 10+ times and have hundreds of hours of experience in dungeons. Using that as a base reference for how long this dungeon takes is almost as relevant as using Usain Bolt’s performances to compare with your own. I was invited by a full guild group to do Arah p4, with vocal comm, and we took 1h40 to do it. My own guild mates took 3 hours.

This is a l2p issue. My guildies and I did arah p4 in 1 hr 30 mins on our first try. We didn’t coordinate builds or classes.

Bright.9160:

LordByron.8369:

i hope they saw the mess they did with AC and started to rethink their plan….
AC change was the worst dungeon change since release.

AC got easier. PUGs got worse.

no it did not.
And that is the reason it changed from one of the most popular dungeon to a desert……

Such result proves itself they did something really bad. (even without mentioning the gamebreaking bugs ruining a Whole run at boss).

If only few players tried to introduce new players to dungeon sometime rather that speedrunning cof, they would easily notice what they did wrong.

LordByron.8369:

no it did not.
And that is the reason it changed from one of the most popular dungeon to a desert……

Such result proves itself they did something really bad. (even without mentioning the gamebreaking bugs ruining a Whole run at boss).

If only few players tried to introduce new players to dungeon sometime rather that speedrunning cof, they would easily notice what they did wrong.

How did it not get easier? Spider queen is not any harder, you just gotta lure out her poison attack once, and then melee her face off.

Kohler: yeah, don’t bother with him anymore.

Any other part: still the same. Gravelings got some more KD’s, just bring stability.

Endbosses: p1 and p3 became a joke because they have practically no health and p2 has a meh mechanic, but also has a lot less health.

It did get easier. The general populus of this game is just terrible at it.

I won’t call it easier in general, soloing it the legit way got so incredibly hard i sprent over 48 hours on it. In a 5 men group nothing changed at all, instead of taking any encounter down in 20 seconds it’s now 10 seconds. Also there is little to no use for an ele anymore since bringing encounters to a wall would probably take longer than just spiking them down.

Also i wouldn’t call strifes videos speedruns, they made videos to every dungeon on this game, not focusing on one specific and run it as long until no mistake happens. Their times are times you archieve after visiting that dungeon few times (with a competent party).
When it now comes to balancing reward i think theese times are a pretty good measure, firsttimers will get horrible reward first but after some runs in a core group it will get better. If you take pug times to balance the reward… i’d be happy because i’d probably get 5-10x more reward/time than before. 1.40h, we could do 4-path 4 runs in that time.

Bright.9160:

…

considering its hard to reply your points being situational and based on the usual profession/builds unbalance.

I will just anwer with a quote:

“is it fun?”

nudata on AC population answers the question by itself…..
I know its hard to understand that ac is supposed to be the easiest dungeon……and that a lvl 80 experienced should play arah, and hotw and fotm if looking for a challenge.

(not saying that hotw and stuff is a challenge….infact its easier than AC).

LordByron.8369:

Bright.9160:

…

considering its hard to reply your points being situational and based on the usual profession/builds unbalance.

I will just anwer with a quote:

“is it fun?”

nudata on AC population answers the question by itself…..
I know its hard to understand that ac is supposed to be the easiest dungeon……and that a lvl 80 experienced should play arah, and hotw and fotm if looking for a challenge.

(not saying that hotw and stuff is a challenge….infact its easier than AC).

Is doing dungeons that other people take 40 minutes to complete in 7-10 minutes fun? Yes, I would most definitely say I think that’s fun.

And, I’m pretty sure Anet intended for lvl80’s to run whatever dungeon they want, hence the downscaling system.

HotW isn’t challenging, or easier than AC btw, the bosses hit harder and have more HP. Too much HP even… Like, seriously, way too much HP.

Arah is fun, but the only real challenge there is Lupi. And we’ve been pushing our times killing him even more lately (been hitting the 60s mark, almost had a 50s, I screwed up). All the other bosses are a joke in there. FotM isn’t a challenge either, it’s a bunch of HP sponges that just hit increasingly harder, but don’t pose a real threat in any way, shape or form tbh.

And stop saying it’s only easy because we run certain team comps. If you don’t like running specific team comps, don’t complain about content being ‘hard’. If liking to be efficient is a crime, I’d have to be locked up for a couple of years.

LordByron.8369:

Bright.9160:

…

considering its hard to reply your points being situational and based on the usual profession/builds unbalance.

I will just anwer with a quote:

“is it fun?”

nudata on AC population answers the question by itself…..
I know its hard to understand that ac is supposed to be the easiest dungeon……and that a lvl 80 experienced should play arah, and hotw and fotm if looking for a challenge.

(not saying that hotw and stuff is a challenge….infact its easier than AC).

Just today i did p1,2,3 of AC and found it quite fun and easy overall, the only part that IMO needs a rework is the ecot collection in p3. its so slow and boring.

i can tell you that while mine and your can be opinion…
The overall numbers are a fact…

Is it fun?
NO its not.

If you look even deeper to see how much random pugs attended the dungeon before and now its even more clear.

Farmers moved to cof/coe
Casuals quit dungeons.

P.S. for the “challenging” discussion i will repeat myself one again:
is ac easy as 1st dungeon at lvl 35?
is fotm easy without professions completely negating dungeon mechanic?

Its like saying JP are easy when you play with a mesmer……

Pack up and go home people, we aren’t getting any permanent content anytime soon.

As far as I know that upcoming ‘dungeon’ is going to be temporary, lets just hope it isn’t a one-room-one-boss piece of trash, eh?

The devs just love micro-content and mini-game style play, GW2 is the MMO party game..

You shouldn’t have to play with a weak setup/not your style of play for the game to be a challenge, we need genuinely challenging content

Bright.9160:

Any other part: still the same. Gravelings got some more KD’s, just bring stability.

What?! I don’t have stability! Sheesh Anet, try and remember there are other classes that don’t have access to stability. Again with the knockdowns?

Bright.9160:

Dingding, we got a winner!! Dungeon runners have been saying this since launch. You don’t get rewarded for your effort in doing dungeons. No matter how fast you can clear Arah or Fractals, you’ll always be outdone by the mindnumbingly easy paths because the dungeon reward system doesn’t reward skill.

Yes, this is a serious problem with all dungeons. Some paths are clearly harder and longer than others. But there are not any better rewards to compensate for this difference. And I don’t find the dungeons any fun to begin with, so for me it is all about the rewards only. I try to make a few gold doing these dungeons. So the quicker the better. I’m probably not alone in this.

They really need to give us a good reason to do a harder/longer path.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Bright.9160:

Any other part: still the same. Gravelings got some more KD’s, just bring stability.

What?! I don’t have stability! Sheesh Anet, try and remember there are other classes that don’t have access to stability. Again with the knockdowns?

Run with good Guardians…

SnoodBeAR.5286:

You shouldn’t have to play with a weak setup/not your style of play for the game to be a challenge, we need genuinely challenging content

there is a difference between playing with a “weak” setup and using overpowered builds….

I don t think that pushing “i can t die” buttons is “a style of game”

Until those issues are solved (and pvp is what is preventing that to happen) nothing will be challenging for pve Golden professions while everything will be furtsrating for Others.

Go tell rangers that the game is too easy…….wait few days before doing it so they will be even more happy.

That happens when you balance a pve game basing solely on pvp.

Dub.1273:

1.40h, we could do 4-path 4 runs in that time.

This invalidates your entire post. Until you come with a video proving it, I would consider your entire post based on lies. I heard about Strife’s 30 minutes video, but that’s one run and still 2 hours for 4 runs.

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

I’m still holding out hope that the decision was made to do this all at the same time, when the reward structure changed, and that we’ll see something good.

I’m really beginning to think that’s the case. My own opinion : they stopped the dungeon revamp because they understood that it’s not going to be useful as long as they haven’t fixed the entire loot structure in the game. Colin recently said they recognize there is a problem with the loot system in GW2 making harder content pointless (he told this based on the Orr meta-events revamp).

I think it touches two core problems of the game :
1. Many supposedly rare drops are worth nothing at all. Example : many named exotic weapons aren’t worth more than 1.5G even if I’ve only dropped 5 or 6 in 1k+ hours.
2. There is almost no incentive in the game to do hard content as it isn’t rewarded properly. Example : CoF1 is 6 gold per hour, you can loot a precursor on a WvW Dolyak, champion drops are crap but they take 10x more time to kill than regular mobs, 90% of the end-game items can be earned by grinding faceroll content (ascended equipment for example).

I think they really have a problem there because all-in-all that’s a very complex situation to solve.

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

Something that will get people to stop saying GW2 has no end game, which honestly is pretty true once you finish up DM title/FotM to a reasonable level.

I hate “endgame” discussions because “endgame” means nothing at all really. Everyone has its own opinion on this and using general terms like that do not bring any fruitful discussions.

Now if by this you mean that aside from the DM title and 35+ fractals there is nothing else to aim for in PvE at the moment, I agree (but you should add getting a legendary for the medal and the achievement).

I now have all 3 (legendary+DM+Fractals 36 done), and now I really get the feeling that I’ve finished the game – PvE side. It doesn’t make the game bad I’d say, that’s 1k+ hours for 60€ and I had a ton of fun, but that’s it. Game beaten :P

Ouroboros.5076:

Dub.1273:

1.40h, we could do 4-path 4 runs in that time.

This invalidates your entire post. Until you come with a video proving it, I would consider your entire post based on lies. I heard about Strife’s 30 minutes video, but that’s one run and still 2 hours for 4 runs.

I trust his word but that’s because he’s a well known exploiter. It’s not a 4 legit runs, it’s an exploit run. Look up the DnT 46 second lupicus kill thread and you’ll see how at one point they (dub and friends) claimed the record on killing lupicus.. by using an item that one shot him and got banned from dungeons by anet right after the video began circulating around.

Nikaido.3457:

I trust his word but that’s because he’s a well known exploiter. It’s not a 4 legit runs, it’s an exploit run. Look up the DnT 46 second lupicus kill thread and you’ll see how at one point they (dub and friends) claimed the record on killing lupicus.. by using an item that one shot him and got banned from dungeons by anet right after the video began circulating around.

I never claimed any record, just stated the current state of the game. He wasn’t one shot but killed in about 15s. The video was heavily edited to the point you had no idea what that was about and original version had been sent to Robert before even I edited that video.

25 minutes p4 run is fully legit, no exploits except skipping mobs are being used. If you can’t do it, it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. inb4 fraps or it didn’t happen

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

I trust his word but that’s because he’s a well known exploiter. It’s not a 4 legit runs, it’s an exploit run. Look up the DnT 46 second lupicus kill thread and you’ll see how at one point they (dub and friends) claimed the record on killing lupicus.. by using an item that one shot him and got banned from dungeons by anet right after the video began circulating around.

I never claimed any record, just stated the current state of the game. He wasn’t one shot but killed in about 15s. The video was heavily edited to the point you had no idea what that was about and original version had been sent to Robert before even I edited that video.

25 minutes p4 run is fully legit, no exploits except skipping mobs are being used. If you can’t do it, it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. inb4 fraps or it didn’t happen

Yes that’s why in the previous thread you all insisted on how this 15s lupicus was not an exploit blabla until it was finally fixed then you finally dropped the whole it’s legit act. We know the drill.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lupicus-46-Second-Speed-Kill/page/2

It’s about using same thing you were using during one of your speed run and there’s no exploit involved.[…]
Some people are able to squeeze out maximum dps of other proffesions than warrior.

Quoth haviz.

Or that was intended.. as a joke ? The sky’s the limit in how you could explain the previous behaviors.

Your very definition of exploit obviously does not follow anet’s definition.

I don’t want a 25 minutes p4 video, I want a 1h40 4 p4 video. Which is what he said he can do.

Ouroboros.5076:

I don’t want a 25 minutes p4 video, I want a 1h40 4 p4 video. Which is what he said he can do.

They can’t show videos, not really because they don’t want you to be able to do the same thing (they might try to push out that excuse) but because they know anet would fix it. Anet started caring about the lupicus thing only when the censored video started circulating a bit because it roused too much curiosity among the larger public.

Not showing said video lets them get away with pretending it’s legit and continue abusing said exploits.

Nikaido.3457:

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

I trust his word but that’s because he’s a well known exploiter. It’s not a 4 legit runs, it’s an exploit run. Look up the DnT 46 second lupicus kill thread and you’ll see how at one point they (dub and friends) claimed the record on killing lupicus.. by using an item that one shot him and got banned from dungeons by anet right after the video began circulating around.

I never claimed any record, just stated the current state of the game. He wasn’t one shot but killed in about 15s. The video was heavily edited to the point you had no idea what that was about and original version had been sent to Robert before even I edited that video.

25 minutes p4 run is fully legit, no exploits except skipping mobs are being used. If you can’t do it, it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. inb4 fraps or it didn’t happen

Yes that’s why in the previous thread you all insisted on how this 15s lupicus was not an exploit blabla until it was finally fixed then you finally dropped the whole it’s legit act. We know the drill.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Lupicus-46-Second-Speed-Kill/page/2

It’s about using same thing you were using during one of your speed run and there’s no exploit involved.[…]
Some people are able to squeeze out maximum dps of other proffesions than warrior.

Quoth haviz.

Or that was intended.. as a joke ? The sky’s the limit in how you could explain the previous behaviors.

Your very definition of exploit obviously does not follow anet’s definition.

Things are deemed as an exploit the moment anet decides to do it, not when some players decides that the only valid strategy is their own. That thing has been working since the launch and the best part is that it still does, just not in dungeons.

Another thing, didn’t anet fixed feedback “exploit” on lupi so it can’t reflect more than ~20 projectiles?

That sentence was trollish in nature since you can’t discuss exploits in details.

Nikaido.3457:

It’s about using same thing you were using during one of your speed run and there’s no exploit involved.[…]
Some people are able to squeeze out maximum dps of other proffesions than warrior.

Quoth haviz.

So you consider DnT using exploits too.

And Arah Path 4 can be done in 25 minutes and less without using any exploit. When using exploits, it can be done in well under 20 minutes.

Nikaido.3457:

They can’t show videos, not really because they don’t want you to be able to do the same thing (they might try to push out that excuse) but because they know anet would fix it. Anet started caring about the lupicus thing only when the censored video started circulating a bit because it roused too much curiosity among the larger public.

Not showing said video lets them get away with pretending it’s legit and continue abusing said exploits.

I sent anet original version and got positive answer before posting. Secondly, that censored video was private so unless a person I showed it downloaded it and then re-uploaded I don’t see how that vid could have been circulating.

Oh by the way, neither haviz, any of my friends or me claimed a record on killing lupicus. We said we did it in 18 seconds, not that it’s a record.
Whenever i claim records i post them on gwscr.com.

LordByron.8369:

SnoodBeAR.5286:

You shouldn’t have to play with a weak setup/not your style of play for the game to be a challenge, we need genuinely challenging content

there is a difference between playing with a “weak” setup and using overpowered builds….

I don t think that pushing “i can t die” buttons is “a style of game”

Until those issues are solved (and pvp is what is preventing that to happen) nothing will be challenging for pve Golden professions while everything will be furtsrating for Others.

Go tell rangers that the game is too easy…….wait few days before doing it so they will be even more happy.

That happens when you balance a pve game basing solely on pvp.

None of the people I run dungeons with use a template build, all built them ourselves. I can safely say we could run every dungeon in reasonable times with little to no wipes. There is a slim chance that they are all OP builds, you need to realize that the game is just easy..

Two of my previous team members/guildys were rangers, and arguably two of our my favorite dungeon runners, they don’t find the game challenging and can contend just as easily..

if the game is easy how comes that:

99% pug groups fails with suboptimal professions at shaman 40+
99% non pug groups use at least 2 guardians and 1 warrior

As said show me a 48 (still doable) run without guardians, warriors and thieves….

If you show and tell me that is EASY then we can debate….

If you instead manage to wipe opponents before they are a threat or just avoid the threat itself via abysmal reflect uptime, then skill is not involved.

The game is frustratingly hard and often skill is not enough….

Yet there are ways to just avoid completely skill tests…..but that doesn t mean the game is easy…it means you chosen “the easy mode”

Players doing that could be uberskilled or total beginners but that system simply doesn t test any skill.

LordByron.8369:

As said show me a 48 (still doable) run without guardians, warriors and thieves….

So 3 Ele 1 Mesmer is ok?
next time we’ll try it with only 2 ele 1 mesmer but lvl 48 is to high to duo it^^

Anubarak.3012:

LordByron.8369:

As said show me a 48 (still doable) run without guardians, warriors and thieves….

So 3 Ele 1 Mesmer is ok?
next time we’ll try it with only 2 ele 1 mesmer but lvl 48 is to high to duo it^^

despite is WAY more difficult with that team…you still can have 100% absorb….
And avoiding that would be the point….

Not mostly because its easy with ele (its really hard because while its easy to survive you have troubles with dpsing wurms AND Killing shield)…

but because what i am trying to say is if you play the encounter like its meant to (i.e. without negating completely the mechanic) its all but easy…

on the contrary the streak aoe-arrow-aoe-arrow (with different cooldowns) that can happen if you are unlucky will kill skilled and unskilled players

LordByron.8369:

if the game is easy how comes that:

99% pug groups fails with suboptimal professions at shaman 40+
99% non pug groups use at least 2 guardians and 1 warrior

As said show me a 48 (still doable) run without guardians, warriors and thieves….

If you show and tell me that is EASY then we can debate….

If you instead manage to wipe opponents before they are a threat or just avoid the threat itself via abysmal reflect uptime, then skill is not involved.

The game is frustratingly hard and often skill is not enough….

Yet there are ways to just avoid completely skill tests…..but that doesn t mean the game is easy…it means you chosen “the easy mode”

Players doing that could be uberskilled or total beginners but that system simply doesn t test any skill.

You’re pointing out 1 hard situation, that isn’t genuinley difficult either.. no new mechanics just bigger health pools and more damage, the majority of the game is easy.. people shouldn’t have to handicap themselves, the challenging content should be there, the builds wouldn’t be “OP” if the content had any challenge to it in the first place

“The game is frustratingly hard” That is purely a “learn to play” issue..

you are basically saying we should play with rubbish pugs (most of them are pretty good) and a poor build on a class that isn’t so great to get any challenging content out of the game.. it isn’t a matter of builds being OP because you can steamroll pretty much every dungeon with the right build setup and skilled players.. it is a matter of making challenging content in the first place

Bright.9160:

Imo, they should focus more on a reward overhaul in the sense of rewarding the harder dungeons (Arah mainly) more. Preferably in the way they rewarded GW1 dungeons: unique, tradeable dungeon skins that only drop in certain dungeons/paths. The system worked very well, because it revolved around supply and demand: the easy dungeons with mediocre skins were overfarmed by PUGs, meaning the skins were worth little, while the somewhat harder dungeons had the best skins, which had lower supply, thus were worth more.

I dunno… if that would really be an improvement, or a step backwards. I so rarely ever see any Drag’sDeep weapons. I see tons of really expensive skins hither and thar, sometimes I even see people actually USING those weapons in combat instead of just sitting in LA all day flipping the market. These grid covered wings in this update for example… Saw lots of people with them on the 2nd day. Doesn’t tell you a thing about their skill level though. Infact it’s 2nd week now, and I’ve got 3 of them sitting in my inventory. And I won’t ever wear them b/c A) I hate that texture, & B) makes you stick out for all the wrong reasons.

I did DOA enough times to get 3 Torm weapons. I did UW enough times to pop a Smitey. I never equipped the weapons and almost never brought out the mini. Never even bothered going for Obs armor… (it was too brutish/ugly for most classes IMO). … About the only things to really be proud of in Gw1 were the things you couldn’t just buy or less grind based titles like Grandmaster Cartog…Vanquisher…etc that the game didn’t just hold your hand through it the entire way (“been there done that” is definitely not on the same tier.) So yeah I think it’s important that some uniqueness be maintained here. It’s bad enough already that people can just instantly buy Legendaries with their credit cards. (…and I really hope when they add the Scav hunt, that there’s some new skins that people could only have gotten by completing very tricky hunts).

I’ve been wanting the dungeon reworks for a while. Even moreso because it looked like the next one up for alteration was Caudecus’ Manor, and Turmaine’s periodic invulnerability is just a pain, not to mention the fortified turret encounters right before him. Path 2 of Sorrow’s Embrace has been needlessly long forever, and Subject Alpha still has so many wasted mechanics.

I see a lot of people in here talking about how speed runs can get through a path fast enough, and I’m amazed that people think that makes it okay. A speedrun can get through Sonic 2006 quickly enough that it isn’t horrifically painful, but it still could have been improved tremendously.

Mentioned my thoughts in the Aetherblades thread already, but fits here a little better.

The AC revamp was not well received by general community, saw a decrease in players and made the average PUG group require lvl 80. Despite meeting the goals of more mechanics and group organization requirement.

Living story is throwing a bunch of content quickly to see what players actually want. Once they have a better baseline would expect to see more movement and discussion on permanent content again.

lord byron strong unaware

Gian.4398:

Dev’s priority list:
1 How to Dance, Volume 2
2 Living story content. Reward: pirate eye patch
3 Ride the Lightning nerf
4 Town clothing: blue shirt, blue shirt with red stripes, red shirt with blue stripes
5 How to reject dance invitations, Volume 1
6 Living story content. Reward: butterfly wings
7 Ride the Lightning buff… hotfix: Ride the Lightning nerf
.
158 Precursor scavenger hunt
.
315 In game dungeon group finder
.
689 End game content

+1 for scarily defining the truth.

nethykins.7986:

Gian.4398:

Dev’s priority list:
1 How to Dance, Volume 2
2 Living story content. Reward: pirate eye patch
3 Ride the Lightning nerf
4 Town clothing: blue shirt, blue shirt with red stripes, red shirt with blue stripes
5 How to reject dance invitations, Volume 1
6 Living story content. Reward: butterfly wings
7 Ride the Lightning buff… hotfix: Ride the Lightning nerf
.
158 Precursor scavenger hunt
.
315 In game dungeon group finder
.
689 End game content

+1 for scarily defining the truth.

+1, lost hope in A-Net.

Bright.9160:

There are actually only 3 paths in the game that you can complete in like 6-8 minutes and that’s AC p1, CoF p1 and SE p1 (not including CoF p2 gateskipping, but I don’t know if that’s gotten patched or not).

All of the other ones, except for Arah p1 (~20-25mins) and Arah p4 (30-45mins) take about the same amount of time (10-15mins) with a good group. It’s just that PUGs are terrible and don’t know how to run dungeons fast and efficiently.

I need to start running dungeons with Bright and his friends.

I don’t know about you guys, but I really liked Canach’s Lair.

WTB GW2 Hard Mode

Khal Drogo.9631:

I need to start running dungeons with Bright and his friends.

Well, read my signature. LOD is recruiting.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I don’t know about you guys, but I really liked Ca

edited to match the length of the Canach’s exp mode fight