Guild Wars 2

If enemies in dungeons remain aggroed to players until they or the players have been slain, do you think dungeons would be more fun, assuming rewards were adjusted to reflect the more difficult and time-consuming gameplay? Why or why not?

InB4 this gets misconstrued into a pro/anti-leashing debate thread.

EDIT: Okay fine, I’ll give a legitimate answer as well. No, I don’t think it would be more fun because with the current way the AI works, it would just slow things down because people would just find more ways to LoS and stack them by pulling them to specific points on the map.

What I’d rather have is a more reactive AI that actually is balanced on a more equal playing field to the players; one that is less tanky but actually dodges and uses similar mechanics to what we as the players use. But I have no idea how easy or difficult that would be to program, and even with that aside I doubt Anet would take the effort to make such changes considering how long it takes them to fix simple bugs in dungeons.

changes in dungeon meta – “LF1M thief for trash skipping”

No, I think it would be equal or less fun.

Sometimes skipping is fun. Leashing would remove that fun. It would turn into being forced to kill everything. Stacking and DPS would become even more important. Right now you HAVE the option to kill everything. So if you wanted to, then do it. But don’t force somebody to do it and call it more fun.

I think it will turn into a new meta. Call it the sacrificial lamb. This guys job is to aggro everything to a corner and die there, while the rest of the team progresses on our merry way. Luckily my group has a perfect candidate for this job. So bring it on!

if anything the zerker meta will be even stronger because dps becomes even more important for speedclears. Mesmers will slow down runs even more.

I would murder all the mobs in the dungeon if i got a reward for it, like bonus gold for clearing a dungeon of mobs. Extra bonus gold if you do it quickly. Or maybe all mobs would drop one extra token on kill. But as it stands learning new ways to skip mobs can be just as rewarding.

Yes dungeons need mob murder time trials!

Getting back to the whole leashing thing, mobs suddenly giving up and staggering back to their patrol zone is rather game breaking but i like to change skills sometimes i forget to do that and i need to break combat so nah

And like others have commented Thief use would sky rocket, people would become sacrifices, or more stacking. No matter how the game changes people will find the easiest way, some call this exploitation. A wise man once said give a task to a lazy man and he will find the easiest way to do it.

I think that may be it….

Adjustment to game:
Generally speaking when you kill stuff in the dungeon it does not respawn, Generally. Adjust the programming so this is the case. You kill something it stays dead.

Add 1 dungeon token as loot from everything you kill. Just one,

Barring a few exceptions. Being respawning trash like the farmers etc at the beginning of Arah.

What does this accomplish. It will give at lease SOME level of reward to players that want to kill everything. You Can trade tokens in for your gear for use and or salvage. and if you want to skip it all because you already have everything YOU CAN.

random idea I don’t know if it would actually work or not. Cant be any worse than the champ loot box farm in wherever.

@Ropechef

Thats actually not a bad suggestion. It wouldnt force groups to kill and the incentive is good enough for casual players to kill, but not so good that they would abuse it and farm the start of dungeons.

1 dungeon token loot from everything seems a bit too much. i’d go for 1 dungeon token from elites (guaranteed or at least high chance). and maybe very small or no chance from weakling trash

I could see it as something like silvers drop a token.

I just think it might be a temporary balance solution. If you want to farm for tokens and or kill all things. you get at least Something out of it. but it does not change the game for the speed runners that much.

shrug I guess it could go both ways.

I run both ways just depends on who I am running with and what they want to do. But for a lot of players the dungeon armor is a way to get geared. handful of extra tokens per run would mean a lot to many people I know.

Bonus tokens for trash awarded on dungeon completion would be quite lovely, and can’t be farmed by just clearing the first room and resetting the dungeon. Maybe that’s not a problem, but ISTR people were farming the first bosses in Arah for a measly four tokens a pop.

If bonus tokens are immediate drops or per character rather than shared over the group, it might impact path selling, at least buyers who want tokens might be slightly more inclined to do full runs and at least partial clears. Those just after DM title or maximum efficiency will probably still happily pay to join just before final
award, of course.

If bonus tokens are awarded at the end and are a shared resource attached to the party, it might lead to an interesting situation where solo/duo sellers offer low prices for just the end reward, while 3/4 people could clear more trash and offer ‘end reward +XX bonus tokens’ in their ads. Might be a danger of more kicks of players near the end to sell their spot in that case, which would be horrible.

Disclaimer: I have no problem with folks buying or selling legit runs, just wondering if it would affect the market for them. Somewhat pointlessly, I’m sure, as there doesn’t seem to be a huge motion from ArenaNet to change dungeon reward structure at the moment.

What if all the players in GW were decent? What if twinkies were never made again? What if I was a woman? What if god was one of us? What if ….

I love the direction this tread headed in.

Anyway, here’s my take on the idea trying to keep programming in mind.

Right now we have Daily Achievements, Slayer Achievements and Stacking Sigils that all track how many enemies a player kills. Daily achievements can track by region as well as by type (vet/champ/any) and stacking sigils are bound further then region, as they’ll reset after leaving a zone. Also all of these methods track kills which a player had a hand in.

What I would propose is starting up a hidden counter (using coding that already exists) that starts at the start of an instance to give out rewards on the completion of a path. This would track number of normal mobs, elites and optional champs killed.

Now going at the rate that a boss rewards a bag of goods giving 3 tokens I would propose the following conversion: Optional champs = 2; Elites = .7-.9; normal mobs = .05. This number would be rounded down upon finishing and would vary from player to player based on which mobs they tagged.

Basically the majority of mobs that respawn are normal (arah entrance comes to mind) But instead of no reward I figured a minimal reward with rounding down would be better and make it not worth players effort to bother farming.

The .7~.9 for silvers could be modified based on the length of the dungeon (CoF 1 for instance offering a better reward for silvers since there are more of them, and CoF 3 a lower reward).

So take CoE 3 for example. A full clear would yeild: 7 silvers at entrance + 5 golems in laser room + 4 during cannon event + 2 with abomination + 4 top of stairs + 6(?) destroyers = 28 silvers

Wolf, Abom and Crab are you’re optional champs

Finally I would estimate between 40-60 normal depending on how your tagging is during the golem event.

So a full clear would yeild: 19~25 from silvers (depending on .7 to .9), 6 from champs, and 2~3 from normals (based on tagging). 27~34 extra.

Compare this to a Pug speed clear that will skip the champ wolf (- 1 champ and 1 silver), the abom (-1 champ and 2 silvers), and the non-crabling destroyers (1 champ 6 silvers). Here we end up with 13~17 from silvers, 0 from champs and still have 2~3 from normals = 15~20 extra.

Bonus per kill should stay personal, you should get a kill counter in dungeons that show how many tokens/coin you have earned for your murder spree and at the end of the run you get the bonus. This would eliminate partial dungeon runs, and null the bonus for path selling. You can swap characters and keep your bonus but if you leave party it is lost. This would also help with sudden disconnects for when the tiny goblins get into your router, it happens more often than most people realize.

In my example I intended that to be personal reward delivered at end.

I doubt that would effect path selling as buyers are the people that don’t want to learn the path for whatever reason. Buyers aren’t going to see “I could get 100 tokens if I ran the path myself” rather “for 5 gold I get 60 tokens and don’t need to learn the path”. This is especially true when the bonus reward would take much longer for the buyer then the one minute it takes to get the 60 for 5 deal.

I doubt this would be something that could be easily retained over a character swap or d/c. The easiest way I could see this implemented would copying pre-existing code from stacking sigils and daily’s with slight edits – likely using the sigil for the root counter and the daily code to notice the difference between mob types. Without knowing anything about the game code, I can not say if that would be easy to modify to account for a d/c or swap, but my gut tells me no.

That wasn’t directed at your comment specially, just thinking about how it could be implemented. You are probably right in that path buyers only want a finished path and don’t care about rewards but I would prefer they not get anything if possible.

I don’t know a thing about coding so it may not be possible to keep rewards for character swap and d/c but i think it’d be worth a mention to try and keep it available. I’d be bummed if lost my tokens at the end of my run.

I don’t think selling is a terrible thing. A.net states they’re ok with it as a “gentleman’s aggrement between two players” So if a person that only wants to do WvW wants to get a skin from Arah they don’t have to spend time learning/running the dungeon.

It lets them spend time doing the things they enjoy more while letting the people that enjoy the challenge of doing the dungeon 2/3 man get a bit of an extra reward. win/win for both parties. The main issue is people exploiting to sell which A.net (and the reputable sellers) are not ok with.

I think the coding would be possible to do with rewards on d/c or character swap, it would just be harder to implement (at least I think it would). In the case of a d/c it kind of makes sense since if you d/c right at the end you lose the reward anyway – at least mid run you could still get some of the kill bonus back. Character swap wouldn’t be too bad either as the instance owner can’t swap – why not apply to everyone else?

I’d prefer if they didn’t do that, but instead incentivized killing trash mobs by making them inherently fun to kill (new abilities/mechanics/kill orders and not letting them be HP sponges) or by giving them unique item skin drops.

It would be pretty fupsing epic if mobs never leashed, imagine the mosh pit: the wall of death was never that interesting before, imagine just pulling everything to grief pugs that would be so cool! Man time for revenge make it happen gogo