Guild Wars 2

Come on guys. When does it stop. The constant complaining must stop. Disregarding some balance issues which will be fixed, when will this constant stream of complaining about content stop.

If you have to do 70 runs. It’s grindy.
If you have to do 50 runs. It’s a grind.
if you do 10 runs. ‘Bored, nothing to do, no endgame’

Do you see where my logic is.

Will you guys ever have the revelation that, you can stop playing the game 10 hours a day? Does that cross your mind? I don’t know if you guys assume that an MMO MUST keep you occupied all day every day for year, because it doesn’t. That’s not how the game is designed.

Other games, for example Starcraft 2, which i play. I play for a few months alot, then i stop for a while. I come back am month later refreshed and ready to do alot more playing. Most games are like this.

You guys need to translate this into MMOs. This can actually relate to the whole game but dungeons has been where the biggest debate about ‘grind’ is. I’ve played 250 or so hours of the game and i’ve done 3 story mode dungeons. That’s it. That’s a hell of a lot of game time.

There’s a thing called choice. You do not HAVE to do the dungeons. No really, you don’t. I’ve not felt like doing them right now, so i don’t. You don’t HAVE to do 70 runs in a week. You can’t DEMAND 20 minute farm runs because you want your set in a week, to then moan you have nothing to do.

Again this has nothing to do with difficulty, bugs, balance, or rewards. If you’re a reasonable human being you will have a small bit of patience while the rough edges are ironed out.

Please STOP demanding easy farm runs, because you same guys will complain of no content once you have your sets. Please don’t talk about grind, because that means you’re running something you don’t like in the first place. That’s illogical. If you want to do dungeons but don’t find them fun right now, wait to see if that changes.

Guild wars 2 is a game. It has between 150 and 250 hours of PVE leveling content. That’s just one race, one class. You have PVP, you have WvW. You have optional dungeon runs for gear, Legendaries. The game has an amazing amount of content for anyone. Please stop with the complaints about grind, endgame content. BLAH BLAH.

In conclusion. These complaints are a never ending circle jerk which make no sense and will never stop, because people are never satisfied. This happens in every MMO and it’s happening here. Pace yourself, only do what you enjoy, and don’t expect Guild Wars 2 to occupy your time All day every day.

When will it stop… good question.

Actually, if someone were to put the BWE1-build online somewhere, I’d be a happy camper, move there and stop complaining.

I hope the whining stops soon.But reality is different.So it will NEVER stop.People always have things to complain about.Am i happy with that?Absolutely NO!Can i do anything?Again the answer is no.
What i can do is to give feedback.That is how things can improve.Whining will not solve anything.
I agree with OP.But i just have to accept that this world is full by whiny babies and move on.

people are willing to forgive the grind, after all it’s gonna rear it’s head at some point in gear progression, gating said gear when we could be moving on to an alt and offering more for a group in terms of optional classes to fill holes in strategies or add to them by offering a messed up difficulty for x sections of “insert gearcheck defend npc here” whilst at the same time both punishing players for handling a problem in a dynamic way to offset their lack of say a guardian or whatnot or specific class input whilst at the same time not tackling the bigger issues that plague the game such as melee being unwise at the best of times and unviable completely at the worst of times with hp padded bosses and terrible scaling on mobs and all in all Arenanet got themselves a game with some SERIOUS problems with delivering on their own manifesto you were so proud of they made into a trailer.

The post from JonPeters was truly a PR disaster waiting to happen, and this is what happens when you tell your player base you hope we can all move on from it before they’ve had their say, hope all you want but he should have known this was gonna go down badly given a LOT of players well past the point of reasonable doubt had already told them parts of the dungeons were overtuned, the answer to tune said parts up was a poorly made one to put it lightly

They deserve the backlash for being arrogant

Yeah I agree I hope they do what they did to cof to every dungeon, but at the same time remove cash rewards. If the noobs want cash they can just craft and sell on tp.

Ohh and can we add perma death too, I hate it when noobs die

No game that requires an artificial slower pace, than the gamer can set himself, should be rewarded or encouraged to keep that up. Games are good when they allow the player to play as much or as little as he wants, without content going stale. – Ive only played one game that accomplished that: Everquest 1

It did that by making your character progression two fold:
1) through gear, grouping, raiding and unique epic quests.
2) through your AA (nothing like how rift implemented them though)

Whenever players outpace an mmo people are quick to do as you do OP. But I’ve seen a game that managed to avoid it, and every game since has built artificial blocks instead to keep players on some vision they have of a track they want us to play on, at a pace they set. – Its just a cop out.

Make way point cost gems please.

It’s not about what is too much grind or how many hours/days/years you can play a game.

Why not? Because all of the things you mentioned are governed by one little thing that makes us come and play games in the first place: ENTERTAINMENT

If i am not entertained or if i feel i am doing a job, then why play? I already have a job.

If i am not getting rewarded or have the feeling i accomplished something with SKILL then i am not entertained.

You see where this is going, right?

At this point, dungeons are frustrating because no amount of skill or coordination will help you win certain parts of them. These parts are based purely on luck or someone found an exploit to get past it.

Some bosses are so easy, you can solo them (although it take some time to get through their HP pools). That is not ENTERTAINING at all.

At the same time regular mobs hit you for 30%-50% of your HP and have defence and HP pools that take 5 players 3-5 minutes to get through, that is simply not ENTERTAINING.

Cheers | Skyrant Kangaroomouse

No it must not stop.
It’s not going to stop until they realize the community is what keeps them going, There are people who will refuse to touch the dungeons until they feel that risk is fair for the reward and at 3 silver apon completion? Screw that, Ill go do your stupid heart and wait around for DE.

Dungeons are hard, COOL I like the challenge, what I don’t like is they decided to do a dungeon you need to be in an organized team with voip so you can communicate in real time about when combo fields are being set up and when heals are coming and if someone needs to be rallied. AFTER they mentioned that the game is oriented more towards casuals with the already current difficult making so that GOOD SKILLED players are aware of their environments and other players combo fields various other cues.

What they got now by increasing the HP of trash mobs is what Colin Johansen said we didn’t want for guildwars “I swung a sword, I swung a sword again woohoo”, It’s boring and you have to keep doing this, what 70 times? SERIOUSLY?

No thanks rather not, Ill just appreciate this game for what it is currently an overpriced PVP game akin to League of Leagends but with more voice acting.

I agree with the forum poster I’ve down one fail CoM run and a few AC runs, level 80 making my carrion draconic set and having fun helping my friend that I actually bought the game for as well as my own copy. But then again people don’t actually read all the…. who knows how many dev posts they’ve pushed out about making it so you don’t hit max level and farm heroics to do old not new raids like tradionally MMO’s actually are. WoW experience there. But then again people whine when they don’t get what they want, when sadly this isn’t what the game is about. I guess people get mad over ruining their fashion sense ,sense that what dungeon gear is. cool looking.

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

It’s not about what is too much grind or how many hours/days/years you can play a game.

Why not? Because all of the things you mentioned are governed by one little thing that makes us come and play games in the first place: ENTERTAINMENT

If i am not entertained or if i feel i am doing a job, then why play? I already have a job.

If i am not getting rewarded or have the feeling i accomplished something with SKILL then i am not entertained.

You see where this is going, right?

At this point, dungeons are frustrating because no amount of skill or coordination will help you win certain parts of them. These parts are based purely on luck or someone found an exploit to get past it.

Some bosses are so easy, you can solo them (although it take some time to get through their HP pools). That is not ENTERTAINING at all.

At the same time regular mobs hit you for 30%-50% of your HP and have defence and HP pools that take 5 players 3-5 minutes to get through, that is simply not ENTERTAINING.

Cheers | Skyrant Kangaroomouse

I specifically stated in my OP that Balance, bugs, and similar things can an will be fixed and are irrelevant to anyone reasonable. It’s a pain, but fixes will be implemented if something is broken.

But balance and tuning is not the point. I think i explained it well enough in my post.

Rainfall.4017:

I specifically stated in my OP that Balance, bugs, and similar things can an will be fixed and are irrelevant to anyone reasonable. It’s a pain, but fixes will be implemented if something is broken.

But balance and tuning is not the point. I think i explained it well enough in my post.

No you complained about people complaining.

The bad balance and tuning is the reason people are in rage mode right now.

Rizzy.8293:

No it must not stop.
It’s not going to stop until they realize the community is what keeps them going, There are people who will refuse to touch the dungeons until they feel that risk is fair for the reward and at 3 silver apon completion? Screw that, Ill go do your stupid heart and wait around for DE.

Dungeons are hard, COOL I like the challenge, what I don’t like is they decided to do a dungeon you need to be in an organized team with voip so you can communicate in real time about when combo fields are being set up and when heals are coming and if someone needs to be rallied. AFTER they mentioned that the game is oriented more towards casuals with the already current difficult making so that GOOD SKILLED players are aware of their environments and other players combo fields various other cues.

What they got now by increasing the HP of trash mobs is what Colin Johansen said we didn’t want for guildwars “I swung a sword, I swung a sword again woohoo”, It’s boring and you have to keep doing this, what 70 times? SERIOUSLY?

No thanks rather not, Ill just appreciate this game for what it is currently an overpriced PVP game akin to League of Leagends but with more voice acting.

This is exactly what i’m talking about.

First point. Anet has always been firm on the point that explorable dungeons would be very difficult and the hardest content in the game. They’ve not ever deviated from this. The game pretty much delivers on what they promised.

Second. Rewards, Balance, mob health etc are a different dicsussion. What i will say though is if there is a problem, you guys DO NOT have to post on this forum like Anet murdered your entire family. Some of the posts are borderline disgusting for an issue which would just require some patience. You could post concise feedback but it never happens, it’s just rage and profanity. But this is about grind, not about balance issues.

I’ll say again you do not HAVE TO RUN THE DUNGEONS IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM. UNDERSTAND this please! If at the moment they aren’t fit for your enjoyment do not run them. Read this over and over until you get that this is the solution. You are not forced at this second to run them, what is wrong with you? Are you held at gun point? Why would you do something which isn’t enjoyable? The game’s been out less than a month, you aren’t running out of time for your gear.

Finally your description of the game is rediculous. Think before you post please.

IF it’s the case that they will be fixed in terms of balance and bugs, why did they buff the difficulty when players had chosen NOT to do things as intended due to issues with not being able to?

Nothing screams “I am out of touch with my own dungeon I designed” than buffing something players had to work around, even if the bug fix for the previous section was needed. it’s ALWAYS those defend the npc parts that seem to be balanced and tuned by a chimpanzee and then they go and buff the difficulty on them?

Something is NOT right there.

that, added to the pointlessness of the dungeons due to reward lowering and high repair costs only reminds players of the travesty that was D3. And we all know how that went

Anet didn’t murder my family, but if you don’t voice opinion then it’s seemingly assumed they think they know what you want better than you do, and for most, that just seems arrogant, see the dev response on the matter for an example of arrogance and then again try not to feel the backlash is justified and deserved

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

Rainfall.4017:

I specifically stated in my OP that Balance, bugs, and similar things can an will be fixed and are irrelevant to anyone reasonable. It’s a pain, but fixes will be implemented if something is broken.

But balance and tuning is not the point. I think i explained it well enough in my post.

No you complained about people complaining.

The bad balance and tuning is the reason people are in rage mode right now.

If people are raging about that they need to calm down. Calm down, learn a small bit of patience, and give feedback. Anet gains nothing from a forum full of rage. Maybe you should think about that.

Hellkaiser.6025:

IF it’s the case that they will be fixed in terms of balance and bugs, why did they buff the difficulty when players had chosen NOT to do things as intended due to issues with not being able to?

Nothing screams “I am out of touch with my own dungeon I designed” than buffing something players had to work around, even if the bug fix for the previous section was needed. it’s ALWAYS those defend the npc parts that seem to be balanced and tuned by a chimpanzee and then they go and buff the difficulty on them?

Something is NOT right there.

that, added to the pointlessness of the dungeons due to reward lowering and high repair costs only reminds players of the travesty that was D3. And we all know how that went

Exactly.

If they wanted people to defend Magg while setting the explosives then the way they choose to fix the issue has done the exact opposite.

It did not fix the problem.

The problem is that you simply can not defend him by killing the mobs at the current spawn rate, amount of damage they do and HP they have.

Changing the dungeon by making this event longer, adding more mobs is so completely out of touch with reality, i am lost for words.

Make the event longer, but balance it so we can kill them. Make it 10 minutes, i dont care as long as i have the feeling i can beat it without using cheesy methods like the zombie kiting strategy.

Cheers | Skyrant Kangaroomouse

It will stop in 1-2 months.

When all PvE-players have left the game.

There have been 3 posts by ArenaNet people here. They made it very clear: Exploration Mode is supposed to be so hard, that only the fast, quickest, most dedicated players can finish them. That’s less than 10% (my estimate). Probably even a lot less than 10%. Exploration Mode is supposed to be prestigious. It’s not supposed to be fun. The goal is to get an item-set with different looks, and make just enough gold to cover your repairs (if you’re good). They don’t even care about Story Mode dungeons, the only thing they care about is that even the good players can’t make any gold/hour out of Story Mode dungeons. There is no learning curve. There is gradually increasing difficulty. Dungeons are just a brick wall. Only the people with the hardest heads will be able to continue.

All non-elite PvE-players are supposed to zerg dragons and Public Events. Zerg all day, zerg all night. Oh, and don’t forget to buy some gold at the cash-shop.

The world of GW2 is beautiful. The art-designers, level-designers, the engine-programmers, all made a wonderful world. But the guys in charge of PvE (dungeons, endgame PvE) are pretty clueless. ArenaNet had the opportunity to capture a large part of the MMO-community (and find smart ways to make a profit out of that). But they let a few ex-EQ1/old-school/super-hardcore nerds in their development-team ruin the PvE-side of things.

Rainfall.4017:

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

Rainfall.4017:

I specifically stated in my OP that Balance, bugs, and similar things can an will be fixed and are irrelevant to anyone reasonable. It’s a pain, but fixes will be implemented if something is broken.

But balance and tuning is not the point. I think i explained it well enough in my post.

No you complained about people complaining.

The bad balance and tuning is the reason people are in rage mode right now.

If people are raging about that they need to calm down. Calm down, learn a small bit of patience, and give feedback. Anet gains nothing from a forum full of rage. Maybe you should think about that.

I don’t know what your problem is, but you need to re-examine yourself before telling other people to calm down. You are the one complaining about people complaining. Maybe you should calm down a bit?

I have made many posts with valuable feedback. this one for example:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/How-to-fix-Dungeons-A-lesson-in-game-design-for-ANET/

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

Hellkaiser.6025:

IF it’s the case that they will be fixed in terms of balance and bugs, why did they buff the difficulty when players had chosen NOT to do things as intended due to issues with not being able to?

Nothing screams “I am out of touch with my own dungeon I designed” than buffing something players had to work around, even if the bug fix for the previous section was needed. it’s ALWAYS those defend the npc parts that seem to be balanced and tuned by a chimpanzee and then they go and buff the difficulty on them?

Something is NOT right there.

that, added to the pointlessness of the dungeons due to reward lowering and high repair costs only reminds players of the travesty that was D3. And we all know how that went

Exactly.

If they wanted people to defend Magg while setting the explosives then the way they choose to fix the issue has done the exact opposite.

It did not fix the problem.

The problem is that you simply can not defend him by killing the mobs at the current spawn rate, amount of damage they do and HP they have.

Changing the dungeon by making this event longer, adding more mobs is so completely out of touch with reality, i am lost for words.

Make the event longer, but balance it so we can kill them. Make it 10 minutes, i dont care as long as i have the feeling i can beat it without using cheesy methods like the zombie kiting strategy.

Cheers | Skyrant Kangaroomouse

Glad you and many others see the problem, it’s again as someone said before, almost like they take personal offense to their dungeon being run popularly as a starter dungeon for gear progression to exotics.

HOW DARE YOU LIKE HIS DUNGEON AND HAVE FUN IN IT!

WELL I NEVER!

ps: your link is broken due to it being possibly a deleted thread

Hellkaiser.6025:

Glad you and many others see the problem, it’s again as someone said before, almost like they take personal offense to their dungeon being run popularly as a starter dungeon for gear progression to exotics.

HOW DARE YOU LIKE HIS DUNGEON AND HAVE FUN IN IT!

WELL I NEVER!

ps: your link is broken due to it being possibly a deleted thread

Link is fixed now.

Hellkaiser.6025:

IF it’s the case that they will be fixed in terms of balance and bugs, why did they buff the difficulty when players had chosen NOT to do things as intended due to issues with not being able to?

Nothing screams “I am out of touch with my own dungeon I designed” than buffing something players had to work around, even if the bug fix for the previous section was needed. it’s ALWAYS those defend the npc parts that seem to be balanced and tuned by a chimpanzee and then they go and buff the difficulty on them?

Something is NOT right there.

that, added to the pointlessness of the dungeons due to reward lowering and high repair costs only reminds players of the travesty that was D3. And we all know how that went

Anet didn’t murder my family, but if you don’t voice opinion then it’s seemingly assumed they think they know what you want better than you do, and for most, that just seems arrogant, see the dev response on the matter for an example of arrogance and then again try not to feel the backlash is justified and deserved

Yes, this exactly.

And OP is just asking to be trolled. Perhaps he is one himself…

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

Rainfall.4017:

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

Rainfall.4017:

I specifically stated in my OP that Balance, bugs, and similar things can an will be fixed and are irrelevant to anyone reasonable. It’s a pain, but fixes will be implemented if something is broken.

But balance and tuning is not the point. I think i explained it well enough in my post.

No you complained about people complaining.

The bad balance and tuning is the reason people are in rage mode right now.

If people are raging about that they need to calm down. Calm down, learn a small bit of patience, and give feedback. Anet gains nothing from a forum full of rage. Maybe you should think about that.

I don’t know what your problem is, but you need to re-examine yourself before telling other people to calm down. You are the one complaining about people complaining. Maybe you should calm down a bit?

I have made many posts with valuable feedback. this one for example:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/How-to-fix-Dungeons-A-lesson-in-game-design-for-ANET/

I’m putting things into perspective. I wouldn’t call that complaining. Also if you’ve given feedback and you aren’t someone who just rages, then this thread isn’t even directed at you. So i don’t understand why you needed to post.

Also i think i explained ‘my’ problem well enough in the OP.

People complain because a main issue they promised was just compromised: no grind.

They said that obtaining max-level gear would not require grind. Well, it does, sorry. But, up until last patch, you could circumvent that grind by speedrunning a certain explorable mode dungeon got you that gear. Still a grind, but a reasonably short one. So you could get what you were promised by a means not intended to be used that way.

So ArenaNet jumped in and rather than fixing one of the many, numerous bugs in the game, descided to make breaking their no-grind-promise a first priority. And they fix the one loophole used by players to get what they were originally promised.

That’s the way the current patch is perceived by many. Maybe you now understand why they complain. They complain about the change to the dungeons but what they are really upset about is the original promise that was already broken at release (no grind) that they successfully circumvented so far.

Before BWE1, I even understood what had been comunicated as me being able to buy ugly max-stat gear for next-to-no gold at a vendor in any capital city – and I was happily looking foreward to grinding for looks while being competetive. I absolutely resent grinding to be competetive. As it stands, full exotic is a significant amount over anthing that’s level 80 and dirt cheap. I feel cheated, too.

phooka.4295:

People complain because a main issue they promised was just compromised: no grind.

They said that obtaining max-level gear would not require grind. Well, it does, sorry. But, up until last patch, you could circumvent that grind by speedrunning a certain explorable mode dungeon got you that gear. Still a grind, but a reasonably short one. So you could get what you were promised by a means not intended to be used that way.

So ArenaNet jumped in and rather than fixing one of the many, numerous bugs in the game, descided to make breaking their no-grind-promise a first priority. And they fix the one loophole used by players to get what they were originally promised.

That’s the way the current patch is perceived by many. Maybe you now understand why they complain. They complain about the change to the dungeons but what they are really upset about is the original promise that was already broken at release (no grind) that they successfully circumvented so far.

Before BWE1, I even understood what had been comunicated as me being able to buy ugly max-stat gear for next-to-no gold at a vendor in any capital city – and I was happily looking foreward to grinding for looks while being competetive. I absolutely resent grinding to be competetive. As it stands, full exotic is a significant amount over anthing that’s level 80 and dirt cheap. I feel cheated, too.

Max stat gear is very easy to get and requires no grind. That’s a fact. You do not need to do dungeons to get max level gear. There was no promise broken. To get that ultra cool dungeon gear? Yep you’ll have to do multiple runs. You don’t need to do this in a week however, you also don’t need to do it if you don’t enjoy it. You have free will. Use it.

Can someone show me the quote or implication where they stated getting a full set of cosmetic gear intended for being purely cosmetic would not be a grind/take a long time? Or maybe you’d like to show me where they said getting Legendaries wouldn’t be a grind?

I honestly don’t understand how “so many” (I use "" because you are the vocal minority, everyone else is playing the game) people really didn’t understand that getting a really cool or coveted set of gear would require effort and time. I’m hoping this is the “fanboys” getting a reality check, showing that this MMO isn’t super ground-breaking but just a step in the right direction.

I’d also like someone to come up with a way for people to stop complaining. Reduce token count? Make every dungeon like the previous CoF? You guys are very selfish and misinformed if you think any of those things will stop complaining. Every time something changes, someone will like it and someone won’t. That’s the nature of opinions.

For everyone complaining, you’re better off posting constructively or just not talking. It makes you look ridiculous.

Rainfall.4017:

phooka.4295:

People complain because a main issue they promised was just compromised: no grind.

They said that obtaining max-level gear would not require grind. Well, it does, sorry. But, up until last patch, you could circumvent that grind by speedrunning a certain explorable mode dungeon got you that gear. Still a grind, but a reasonably short one. So you could get what you were promised by a means not intended to be used that way.

So ArenaNet jumped in and rather than fixing one of the many, numerous bugs in the game, descided to make breaking their no-grind-promise a first priority. And they fix the one loophole used by players to get what they were originally promised.

That’s the way the current patch is perceived by many. Maybe you now understand why they complain. They complain about the change to the dungeons but what they are really upset about is the original promise that was already broken at release (no grind) that they successfully circumvented so far.

Before BWE1, I even understood what had been comunicated as me being able to buy ugly max-stat gear for next-to-no gold at a vendor in any capital city – and I was happily looking foreward to grinding for looks while being competetive. I absolutely resent grinding to be competetive. As it stands, full exotic is a significant amount over anthing that’s level 80 and dirt cheap. I feel cheated, too.

Max stat gear is very easy to get and requires no grind. That’s a fact. You do not need to do dungeons to get max level gear. There was no promise broken. To get that ultra cool dungeon gear? Yep you’ll have to do multiple runs. You don’t need to do this in a week however, you also don’t need to do it if you don’t enjoy it. You have free will. Use it.

craftable? you farm and grind it as well as compete vs a anti farm code

unless your definition of max stat is not legendary which would be “max” ie the absolute maximum

I see NOWHERE where a legendary does not require an insane crafting farm grind to get. you’re talking out your “kitten” cheeks sweetheart and you’re going to continually be called out on it sorry

people want to earn something by playing skillfully and being dedicated yes, but corpse conga lines til you’ve easily spent more than you get out of something?

that’s a lot of rubbish.

And for the most part I see constructive feedback, the only negativity is towards and indeed from those that seem short sighted or self interested purely in their opinions, ie: I’ve completed my exotic set on the non broken horribly tuned CoF and it needed a boost in terms of difficulty to shut that door behind me, or those that think that voicing a negative opinion based on concerns makes us all “whiney self entitled baddies” also known as “fanboyism” in that it takes the side of the company and not the consumer for no reason other than some strange sense of misguided loyalty

What you fail to see if CoF was made right and people were actually having FUN farming it. Now with the dungeons nerfs and too crazy buffs to the mobs there is no point in doing dungeons cept maybe Arah speed farm.

So with this dungeon path endgame died even more.,

It a simple formula:

Time invested for a reward is dictated by the amount of new and engaging content you can give the player (and how long they can repeat it without it becoming a grind).

Example:

If players will invest 10 hours into repeated content before getting bored, you give them a suitable reward after 10 hours.

CoF required 30+ hours to get your reward, now it requires a significantly longer amount of time. Which is why people arekitten off.

Without changing anything else in the dungeons, they need to either : Increase the reward for completing the dungeon to roughing 30-50 tokens, or reduce the cost of dungeon rewards by 50%

It’ll never stop, I for one will keep it going, am annoyed and disappointed. they lied about the type of game this would be, plain and simple. They should issue refunds.

don’t like it? don’t come to this section , cause I for one am going to fill it up with complaints in till something Is addressed. or am issued a refund for buying a game that is horribly broken and wrongly advertised to steal our money, yes steal that’s what they did. that’s what liars do

The only thing I’m worried about is that players who need to do story mode may find a harder time getting their guildies to do them with them since they’ve now nerfed the rewards you get for completing them more than once.

tommy.1924:

It’ll never stop, I for one will keep it going, am annoyed and disappointed. they lied about the type of game this would be, plain and simple. They should issue refunds.

don’t like it? don’t come to this section , cause I for one am going to fill it up with complaints in till something Is addressed. or am issued a refund for buying a game that is horribly broken and wrongly advertised to steal our money, yes steal that’s what they did. that’s what liars do

Can you prove they lied? With links, interviews, facts? I doubt it. Unless in this situation they said you can attain the best cosmetic gear in the game in no time at all. Which they didn’t. Liars? Stealing? I don’t think you’re thinking straight.

Rainfall.4017:

Max stat gear is very easy to get and requires no grind. That’s a fact.

OK, I’ve rerolled too often so I’m still on my way to 80. Please point me to the max-stat geat with the lowest requirements for me to put in. I don’t care how god-awful ugly it is. I don’t even care if it’s not only an eyesore but also non-transmutable. Will five gold suffice for a full set incl. weapons? Or what will I have to do to get it?

Rainfall.4017:

You do not need to do dungeons to get max level gear. There was no promise broken. To get that ultra cool dungeon gear? Yep you’ll have to do multiple runs. You don’t need to do this in a week however, you also don’t need to do it if you don’t enjoy it. You have free will. Use it.

As I said, I never expected ultra cool gear to be easily available. It just so happened that the most easily acquired max-level gear was dungeon gear. That door to max-stat has been slammed shut. What’s the easiest max-stat gear now?

People here keep going on and on about how we are whining about the difficulty. IT IS NO THAT, it is the freaking rewards that are not up to par of the time/work spent on the dungeon. They were already terrible before and now the olny made it worse.

There are literally no one doing Crucible of eternity on my server. It reached a point that i will need to ask help for outside. The patch only made it worse because no one will bother to do a dungeon for 2~3 hours for a 13 silver reward.

@Rainfall
did you not read or watch a single interview? they have been quoted many times , hell even in the most recent dev post about their “end game” about how they don’t want it to be a grind.

I agree with OP. Also I must point out that people most were likely not “having fun” speed running CoF, they were getting a significant amount of money/exp/gear for an insignificant amount of time spent, and thus felt like they were “winning the game”.
Unless, you know, they enjoyed beating the exact same enemies in the exact same configurations once every 20 minutes ad infinitum. I could swear people used to call that a “grind”…

Max stat gear is very easy to get and requires no grind. That’s a fact. You do not need to do dungeons to get max level gear. There was no promise broken.

Please tell me where I can get Rabid (Condition Damage > Toughness = Precision) Exotic LvL 80 gear without setting foot in an Explorable dungeon, buying expensive random drops for 10g a piece or farming 170k Karma.

Thank you.

Xanthiel.9360:

I agree with OP. Also I must point out that people most were likely not “having fun” speed running CoF, they were getting a significant amount of money/exp/gear for an insignificant amount of time spent, and thus felt like they were “winning the game”.
Unless, you know, they enjoyed beating the exact same enemies in the exact same configurations once every 20 minutes ad infinitum. I could swear people used to call that a “grind”…

Funnily, it’s not up to you to descide what’s fun for others or if they may only do what is fun to them or – worse – considered by you to be fun.

CoF-grind was simply the fastest way to max-stat gear. A small grind, but a managable one, as promised by ArenaNet, for example in their FAQ: http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/world/faq/

“While Guild Wars 2 adds a persistent-world experience, it retains the unique characteristics of the original game, including strong narrative, extensive instanced gameplay, anti-grind design philosophy, and strong support for competitive play.”

When it says that GW2 “retains” something, that refers to GW1. In GW1, anti-grind meant that you’d reach max level fast and could have max-stat gear a day later.

“Our goal is to avoid forcing players into the grind-based gameplay that too often accompanies a high level cap.”

This could be (and indeed was by many) interpreted as saying “just as in GW1, you can have max stats without grinding and the max-stat-cap won’t be a moving target”. While it seems that what max-stat is will remain fixed (but we don’t know for sure), it does require grind to reach it.

Those are the promises broken, as quoted directly from their homepage, from their FAQ.

@phooka that quote is awesome
reach max lvl fast (yet the nerf the exp rewards for repeating dungeons) and best gear a day later, seriously? how?
“anti-grind design” the whole game is a grind, all the “super cool new events” are just grindy kill “x waves of y mobs” or something like that
the whole gw2 is so awesome much better and more fun then any other mmo because its all new was a big lie anyways its a exp/gear/money grind like all other mmo
I still like gw2 because it has a nice gameplay and cool classes, but this dungeon reward nerf is too much
btw a other thing didnt they say something like “you can play anyway you want” or something like that? so if there are people who want to farm dungeons for exp/money rather then doing boring events, then why dont let them play their way and nerf the exp/money?

OP has nice name.

It’s not the concept of speed runs that upset most of the people in that angry audience but the idea of punishing someone that runs a chain more than once while enhancing the punishing gear repair costs.

People have no idea what grind means. It’s pretty funny how ill-informed and spoiled these ‘kids’ are nowadays. I don’t care if you’re 12 or 40, if you’re complaining about GW2 being a grind you really don’t understand the meaning of the word in terms of how it’s been applied.

Let’s do the WoW gear-treadmill for those who forgot:

I just hit max, level yay! Now what…

Do regular dungeons. Then grind regulars for normal blues. Get Justice points at the same time. Use Justice points to buy some epics. Keep doing regular dungeons until I have enough stats/gear to go to heroics. Do heroics. Replace the gear I just worked a week for very fast. Spend a few more weeks maximizing BiS from heroics while getting JP and valor. Use valor to buy higher tiered epics. Move on to LFR raids. Farm LFR raids and replace the heroic dungeon gear until I have enough gear and more VP to go to normal raids with a guild. Farm normal raids for weeks on end while still doing LFR raids until RNG promotes me to a high enough ilvl to enter heroic raids. Do heroic raids until I have every BiS piece of gear. Throughout each step, wait for friends to catch up or join a different, faster-progressing guild.

Now I enjoyed WoW despite this because I loved collecting pets, quests I missed, doing old stuff for transmog gear, and generally just messing around with friends.

Hi. My name is reality check. Would you like some of this?
People, get your head out of your respective hind parts. Other games require you to gear up through tiers for a long, long time. The relative amount of time required to get the best gear in GW2 isn’t even worth mentioning as it’s so short.

TL;DR: Anti-grind philosophy means doing their best to make it less grindy, not eliminating it completely. Find me an anti-drug program that has effectively eliminated all drugs.

I repeat, get your head out of your respective hind parts and stop claiming they’ve gone against their word or lied to you. You’re lying to yourself.

Its only a grind because you make it one, in fact many of the people who complain about the grind are desperately trying to make the game as grindy as possible. If you’d rather do the same 15min-30min of content non stop for the hardest gear in the game to get, than exploring any other possible option to get max stat gear( which isn’t hard, getting a set of non dungeon exotics takes very little effort) than that’s your fault.

If you cant be bothered to do more than one path in the span of 30 min in any explorable dungeon or maybe just breeze through a different story dungeon, then you don’t get as good of a reward, boo hoo. You think repair costs are to high? If you die enough to break your armor more than 3 times over and lose more than 30 silver you have other problems, stop corpse running your way through all the encounters and l2p.

Sverre.3590:

Its only a grind because you make it one, in fact many of the people who complain about the grind are desperately trying to make the game as grindy as possible. If you’d rather do the same 15min-30min of content non stop for the hardest gear in the game to get, than exploring any other possible option to get max stat gear( which isn’t hard, getting a set of non dungeon exotics takes very little effort) than that’s your fault.

If you cant be bothered to do more than one path in the span of 30 min in any explorable dungeon or maybe just breeze through a different story dungeon, then you don’t get as good of a reward, boo hoo. You think repair costs are to high? If you die enough to break your armor more than 3 times over and lose more than 30 silver you have other problems, stop corpse running your way through all the encounters and l2p.

I totally agree, these dungeons are designed for hey look at what I got those people that enjoy that part of an older mmo, grinding to get something cool. The exotics I can craft are of the same specs than those of a dungeon… Expect I can make every variety as an armorsmith, not just carrion, berserker and whatever is the tanky healing set. (I think those are your three options)

Sverre.3590:

Its only a grind because you make it one, in fact many of the people who complain about the grind are desperately trying to make the game as grindy as possible. If you’d rather do the same 15min-30min of content non stop for the hardest gear in the game to get, than exploring any other possible option to get max stat gear( which isn’t hard, getting a set of non dungeon exotics takes very little effort) than that’s your fault.

If you cant be bothered to do more than one path in the span of 30 min in any explorable dungeon or maybe just breeze through a different story dungeon, then you don’t get as good of a reward, boo hoo. You think repair costs are to high? If you die enough to break your armor more than 3 times over and lose more than 30 silver you have other problems, stop corpse running your way through all the encounters and l2p.

Either you’re naive at the concept that the REPAIR COSTS are not in balance with the actual REWARDS players are getting now. In addition, an unforgiving system that punishes the player for making a mistake is the most inapplicable dogmatic trait of any game. If one want ever desires to learn his/her class, then he/she will have to make those mistakes and gain that combat wisdom, so instead of asking people to “l2p” how about you l2p ( learn to perceive ) the basic gameplay of error and growth before inflating your own ego.

The rewards for the amount of effort required for dungeons are not in line at all. That’s why people are complaining. It’s a legitimate issue, as each update ArenaNet puts out we get more and more rewards for effort taken away (loot DR, event DR, now dungeon DR which is broken as heck).

We do not allow threads meant to complain about complainers on this forum.