Guild Wars 2

You said or maby i miss understand one of your designers that you gonna back to old system rewarding that we gonna get tokens from each part of chest..

Now If I can’t make last boss in each dungeon i will not get the tokens , it’s a lil bit unfair dont you think ?

Moderator Edit: removed CoC infraction from thread title

It is certainly not very fun to spend several days trying to learn to clear an exp path with a static group of guild mates and get ZERO for the effort. Only when you can finally clear the exp path successfully and start farming it as you get better can you expect any reward at all. Frankly, this is total kitten. As a guild leader, it’s hard to keep everyone fired up and motivated to work through the learning process when everyone gets nothing but high repair costs for what can amount to many hours of trial and error before you finally figure it out.

Edit: I understand the conudrum of trying to discourage farming only the first boss in an exp path as being “easier and faster”, but frankly you punish EVERYONE with the current approach only to stem a very small abuse that can be argued to not be an abuse at all. There are other games where its expected that groups who are gearing themselves up for full dungeon clears will indeed repeatedly farm the first one or two bosses to slowly bootstrap themselves into the gear level required to tackle the harder bosses further in the dungeon.

Ban the bots if want to stop abuse that somehow messes up the economy. Players have no trouble recognizing bots: we see them everywhere and they’re dead obvious. In less than 1 second, we can recognize a bot in action. How hard is it to build some heuristic heatmap analytics that will clearly identify bot action in dungeons?

shaktiboi.5194:

It is certainly not very fun to spend several days trying to learn to clear an exp path with a static group of guild mates

I woulda thought that this was intended, it works this way with other games and raids, you cant just expect to roll content you dont know straight away.

shaktiboi.5194:

everyone gets nothing but high repair costs

They also get the experience in the encounter that their time investment has given them

There are other games where its expected that groups who are gearing themselves up for full dungeon clears will indeed repeatedly farm the first one or two bosses to slowly bootstrap themselves into the gear level required to tackle the harder bosses further in the dungeon.

There are, this isn’t one of them.

shaktiboi.5194:

…will indeed repeatedly farm the first one or two bosses to slowly bootstrap themselves into the gear level required to tackle the harder bosses further in the dungeon.

I just find this funny considering that a lot of the dungeons here (atleast originally) put the toughest or most annoying fight in the entire dungeon right towards the front end and once you beat that part, the rest is facerolling. … IE: the Burrower room or Kohler, every path of TA (except Laurent’s knights), Sureshot Seamus, Sorrow’s Path3, Crucible Laser grid, etc… That’s probably why so many newbs gave up too soon on dungeons right after launch.

Personally, I’m really looking forward to Elite mobs sometimes dropping Tokens (atleast that’s what I assume they’re doing) b/c it means that doing the long paths should start to see some advantages over only doing the shortest path.

Tho Anet should also strongly consider having these mobs drop “Herb Bags” b/c of all the common crafting materials I’ve been tracking, Herbs seem to have the most glaring arbitrary supply shortage issue. (and would take the longest time to correct with unnecessary manual labor adding more nodes to older zones)

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Hey there, thought I’d come weigh in on this.

First, sorry you’ve had such a rough time with Arah. It’s a long and tough cookie to crack, but it can be done. RoRo has good advice: step back and reassess the situation. Define a leader. Build a strategy, and execute.

Now, you brought up a great concept for the DR system rewarding unique boss deaths. While I certainly don’t like to jump the gun on making claims, our next patch SHOULD include a newly developed reward system for people who couldn’t make it to the end that should alleviate a bit of this “walking away with nothing” feeling you have.
Personally, I love that my content kills players and challenges them. I feel pretty kitteny though when my content beats someone into the ground and takes their lunch money. I at least want you to walk away with something more than a repair bill and some random blues, and folks here are working on that very thing.
That being said, our next patch SHOULD contain some revamped loot drops from bosses that have the chance of giving small token rewards (among other things), which should help alleviate that.

This was 26 days ago, and next patch, next patch, and that actually never happened, what we expect right now, after 1 month is the 15th of November or even a more long-term date? Will be really nice a bit of transparency in this matter, but at least I do wanna know after 20+days of testing, how is going)

@Alur.7510

That because they are were working on it. And a few days ago they said they were testing it and that they wont be doing anything until the next non-emergency patch.

Not meant as a personal bash towards you Robert, but people farmed the first 1-2 chests because there was NO reward playing the rest of the dungeon for 30 minutes only to receive the same amount of tokens from an end chest (you might as well just go out and say shard farming from arah since people were doing the rest of the other dungeons). Now there is incentive to finish the dungeon because we know* we will get our 60 tokens so I don’t see how you can be oblivious to that.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

We’re in the process of reworking our loot for dungeons. Expect it soon!

I don’t imagine we’re going to put tokens back in chests, and if we do, it won’t be at the volume they once were. What we saw when that was happening, is that people would just farm the first chest or two in a chain and then leave/re-run it, instead of playing through the whole dungeon.

Robert, there’s a simple compromise. Funcom did this with their dungeon currency (Black Bullion) in their Nightmare mode dungeons in TSW, and it worked fine. Nobody ever complained about it. And best of all, you didn’t feel as if “you’ve been beat up and your lunch money taken” (quoting you there: see that? ^.^)

In TSW’s dungeons, where there were 6 boss encounters per dungeon, and something like 17 bullion that could be earned from completing the entire run, you’d get nothing for the first boss, a guaranteed 2 bullion for the second and third bosses (each), something like 3 each (guaranteed) for the 4th and penultimate bosses, and 7 for the final boss.

Most starter groups could at least push into the 2nd boss within a couple tries at most, and fairly quickly start finishing at least the first three bosses with each attempt. That was roughy 25% of the reward for the first half of the dungeon. There was enough “carrot” on the end of the stick to entice you to push as far as possible on each run, especially since all 8 dungeons were on 19-hour lockout timers. If you farmed only the first three bosses from each of the 8 dungeons in one day, you’d get LESS than if you simply tried to push all the way to end of ONE of those 8 dungeons.

Something along these lines would be WAY better than the current “all or nothing” system.

You could easily adapt this without any kitten kitten kitten “lockout timers” (which alone resulted in my entire guild leaving TSW pretty quick when GW2 came along) by simply applying diminishing returns to this mechanic:

first run of the 24-hour reset period in a dungeon with 5 bosses? 0 tokens for the first boss, 8 for the second boss, 8 for the third boss, 14 for the 4th boss, and 30 for the final boss.

all subsequent runs of the same path within that 24-hour reset? 0 – 0 – 0 – 5 – 15

Like that. It’s just functions and tables. No significant changes at all.

I think this is necessary, so tired of running the dungeon just to realize there is a new BUG. If you can’t fix or make sure all the bugs won’t be showing or reappearing, at least reward people with something that they have finished.

@silvermember.8941
Where can I read the message with “till next emergency patch”?
Thanks

@Capricornus.6157
The dungeons with TeamPlay and good coordination (+ knowledge on mobs) at this moment don’t offer a good level of skill to be completed, they are rather easy, so to be honest, getting back to the old system will make people farm 1-2 chest like it was happening in Arah…

snowywonder.2496:

I think this is necessary, so tired of running the dungeon just to realize there is a new BUG. If you can’t fix or make sure all the bugs won’t be showing or reappearing, at least reward people with something that they have finished.

Agreed 100%. Ran several paths that have bugged out (they LOVE to bug out at the final boss or after his death) and have had this problem for over a month, and of course due to the way rewards work – No tokens/26 silver. Tada have fun running it again, those blues/greens that were GREAT loot right? In all honesty I just gave up reporting, because it felt they were running around without a head trying to figure what what to do with their dungeons. SE path 1 is great example of this. Rewards suck, and they know it, but decide to make a relatively unused dungeon even tougher for new players and then BUG the entire path while they were at it. Of course there is no hot fix to help this. Then they smack another dungeon on the 15th. Really? The mini-dungeon you added during the holiday was bugged from the get go. How are you going to fix the current dungeons PLUS an entirely new “massive” dungeon?

My solutions:

Implement the old token system.

Prevent dungeon resets/remove the “bug”, that way people can’t do stuff like “Arah Shard Runs” over and over within a day. Require a dungeon completion for a reset.

Provide “tiered” rewards as you progress through an instance. Maybe reward unique tokens that give better rewards for completing the dungeon. Better yet, unique loot for each path so people aren’t always looking for the most easy and efficient path to farm tokens. Certain dungeon paths I’ve never seen because no one ever runs them.

Create more barriers/walls/etc. that won’t clear out until a boss or pack of mobs is killed to make skipping content impossible. I didn’t buy this game to skip all the content and feel like I’m exploiting the system.

Once this is all implemented, harder content can be created that people can work towards completing without being punished for not being able to complete an entire dungeon.

Oh yeah… requiring completion before reset, that’s a terrific idea. (applying the “flag” to all 5 players who pop the chest of course, not just the party leader)

Something needs to be done about the rewards of the dungeons. Because lets do the math. You need 23 complete expl mode runs to get the whole set of armor, let alone weapon/s. The oportunity costs are too hight, i mean you have to root and rot for hours without end to get a party(while you could be doing something else)in LA to find the first 4 pugs you find that are not completely terriefied of dungeons(like 99% of the people) and then(it took me 30minutes on primetime to find a party for cm, and 1h at late night as i usually play) get in the dungeon to stock really expensive repair bills.
So, with a dungeon, i lose around 2g that i could have earned if i was doing something else than rooting in LA and add the repair bills, an for what, with only 60 tokens you are not even close to getting an armor piece——> result=people hears “dungeon” and goes Hide beneath a rock.

In short:
1)fix the reward system to actually reward something. And chest look like reward chests and not junk piles
2)dungeon quuer: i want to WvW while i look for a group to cm, or do PVP which i cant because i have to root in LA. I mean, because dungeons are not so rewarding ppl simply gets put off and finding a party is HARD. Your predictions about party system have failed
3)my party leader is an kitten and leaves midrun, Dont kick all the party out because of one person, we can manage without him.
4)FIX THE BUGS ONCE IN FOR ALL FGS!!!!!!!

Alur.7510:

This was 26 days ago, and next patch, next patch, and that actually never happened, what we expect right now, after 1 month is the 15th of November or even a more long-term date? Will be really nice a bit of transparency in this, cause “SHOULD” “next patch” is not even near as what we get now “soon” (and prolly I will be a fool quoting you and tomorrow getting this new system, but at least I do wanna now 20+days of testing how is going..)

Posts like this one are the reason why the red posts are really vague when it comes to implementing game changes. Players are frustrated that they’re not being given an estimated timeframe for X and Y fixes, but when the ArenaNet staff try to be specific and it doesn’t make the patch they say it would for whatever reason, people QQ on the forums saying that the developers are lying/stupid/slow/noob/don’t care about their profession/quest/whatever.

You can keep asking ‘when will we see X and Y’ and ‘what bugs will be fixed next patch’ and you’ll never get a straight response because when promises are made and broken, there’s the inevitable backlash of ‘OMG but you said!!!’

@lcpdragonslayer.7895
You confuse one thing, I don’t QQ or ask for anything, call him liar or similar, my question in the end was this:
But at least I do wanna know 20+days of testing, how is going?

If you qualify this as a whining, negative post, and bad feedback, either you are a really negative person, or games forums give you that feeling.

What I said was clear, 26 days ago, we don’t know how rewards are going, what are they testing and such, and I think feedback from us about it can give new ideas and refresh the players too.

Edited it for you to make clearer my points.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

We’re in the process of reworking our loot for dungeons. Expect it soon!

I don’t imagine we’re going to put tokens back in chests, and if we do, it won’t be at the volume they once were. What we saw when that was happening, is that people would just farm the first chest or two in a chain and then leave/re-run it, instead of playing through the whole dungeon.

This was only in Arah, you fixed that by fixing the wall. If you make the token drops progressively larger, ie: 4, 8, 12, it will still encourage players to go further into dungeons.

chuiu.4985:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

We’re in the process of reworking our loot for dungeons. Expect it soon!

I don’t imagine we’re going to put tokens back in chests, and if we do, it won’t be at the volume they once were. What we saw when that was happening, is that people would just farm the first chest or two in a chain and then leave/re-run it, instead of playing through the whole dungeon.

This was only in Arah, you fixed that by fixing the wall. If you make the token drops progressively larger, ie: 4, 8, 12, it will still encourage players to go further into dungeons.

Here is good Idea.

And to Robert .

But you know the main part is I DONT CARE about loot from chests at all you know. I have best equpimnet in the game after 4 days of play … you know.. the problem is that im doing dungegons for skins. And Kinda if i can’t make the last boss i can forget about skin for TOKENS..

so how you want solve that ???

Capricornus.6157:

the problem is that im doing dungegons for skins. And Kinda if i can’t make the last boss i can forget about skin for TOKENS..

so how you want solve that ???

if you cant even finish the dungeon you dont deserve the skin.

People have to realise, they play Arenanet’s game, Arenanet dont work for you. I hope they keep doing what they’re doing and dont buckle to the ‘gimme free stuff’ crowd, because its great atm, though still easy.

I understand why Anet does not want to reinstate partial rewards for partially completed dungeons to prevent people from farming. Perhaps though there can be some hybrid system that tracks partial completion of dungeons and upon next full successful completion of the dungeon the player is rewarded all there tokens that they should have gotten from their partial run. This way it forces players to complete dungeons to get rewards while still compromising for when a player’s run gets bugged/disconnected/kicked.

derry.2789:

if you cant even finish the dungeon you dont deserve the skin.

People have to realise, they play Arenanet’s game, Arenanet dont work for you. I hope they keep doing what they’re doing and dont buckle to the ‘gimme free stuff’ crowd, because its great atm, though still easy.

Lovely response only you forgot some things:
1: If you crash at near boss death = no reward
2: Power flashes near boss death = no reward
3: Player get kicked from a dungeon by jerks who want to invite a guildie who just logged on. = no reward

Here is a hint: Other games don’t have this because they use a loot based system. You crash? Sucks. Go back in the dungeon and re-loot your rewards. Crash in this game? Too bad no – XP/Silver/Tokens for you because you weren’t there that whole 2% left on the final boss. Don’t worry though! You looted plenty of blues right!?