Guild Wars 2

I play games for the adrenaline rush.

When my guild killed Lady Vashj in WoW it was a huge adrenaline rush. Everyone executing to their fullest potential to bring down something very complexed. I felt this multiple times while playing WoW, usually while raiding.

I keep getting slivers of that adrenaline rush from this game but nothing to be fully absorbed by.

I felt it for a fleeting moment when The Shatter landed and dozens of people opened up on him. Then I realized there wasn’t really any threat as everyone stood in a specific spot and shot bolts at his feet until he fled. It just felt cheap, so much work had gone into The Shatter himself but his actual mechanics were being completely overwhelmed by sheer numbers and exploiting him.

I’ve tried a few dungeons (AC, CM, TA) so far and they all seem to fall into the extremely underwhelming category.

I’m just wondering if it gets better? Are there moments in this game where you feel completely overwhelmed and immersed in the experience? Or are those all experienced through Dynamic events that just get zerged?

You are not alone in this feeling, or should I say void of feeling. I totally agree with your statement about the Shatterer too, it was really intense before you realize that well, it’s nearly impossible to fail the encounter.

I’ve come to the realization that at least for the moment, people like us will remain unsatisfied.

In WoW, the pay system was monthly. The only way to retain and expand the model was to keep players challenged, interested, engaged. This was evident in the release of immense amounts of awesome content. The saddest part for me was not actually realizing how good it was until it was gone.

In GW2 however, we have a microtransaction model. There is no underlying push to keep the players invested and interested in the game. Reasons:
-Already bought the game
-Easy for people to hop in and out due to lack of sub fee
-Gem shop creates all revenue besides new purchases
-Endgame (legendary) items now obtainable via TP and thus via gem shop

So, why would they dump out tons of awesome content? It’s not like keeping us happy and interested is as important as it was in WoW. Because in WoW, if there was nothing to do (like in current GW2) people unsub and the company loses money. If GW2 was a sub-based game, I would have been out 3 months ago.

Realizing all this has made me really sad

Interesting points professor steel. Is it the saying “too much of a good thing” that made WoW go stale for us? I played it for years and enjoyed it. Some friends played it so much it made them sick of the game. To be honest I dont know what keeps free to play games afloat. Are there really that many people buying gems?

Anyways I find the dungeons fun and interesting. I found Arah to be “exhillarating” the first few times fighting Lupicus. Fractals were in a way too but at low levels it was very easy to go thru content. I still find GW2 dungeons to be fun. I guess its like anything else… GW2 might not be everybodies cup of tea.

It doesn’t get much better. Claw of Jormag was exciting the first few times. Then again I realised, just stand in this spot and fire charzooka. He is still more fun than the other dragons, thanks particularly to multiple phases, but overall pretty average gameplay.

The best rush I get from this game at present is in WvW.

Kumakichi.2583:

Anyways I find the dungeons fun and interesting. I found Arah to be “exhillarating” the first few times fighting Lupicus. Fractals were in a way too but at low levels it was very easy to go thru content. I still find GW2 dungeons to be fun. I guess its like anything else… GW2 might not be everybodies cup of tea.

It’s good to hear that there are a few encounters that I can look forward to.

I don’t believe it’s GW2’s business model that is at fault, I genuinely think they are trying to provide great content. After all very engaged players, or those elusive “Whale” gamers, are the most likely to buy gems. Thus they need to create great, engaging, long lasting content to make money in the long run. Plus word-of-mouth doesn’t work unless players absolutely love the game. So I don’t buy the “They took our money and ran” argument.

There are a ton of things GW2 is doing right but it still feels like there are a lot of missing pieces that need to be found for it to be truly amazing.

you were saying the dungeons were too overwhelming two weeks ago OP.

fony.5102:

you were saying the dungeons were too overwhelming two weeks ago OP.

I was arguing for a better introduction to dungeon mechanics for new players. I still feel like this is an issue.

I’m not arguing for more difficult dungeons either, I’m simply wondering if there are those moments in this game that I’ve experienced in other games. I’m not saying dungeons create them, in fact I gave an example of how I almost had this kind of experience outside of a dungeon but it wasn’t quite there (The Shatterer).

I believe that a game can slowly introduce new players to dungeon mechanics while having those adrenaline fueled moments later on in the game and I’d like to be involved with a discussion about how this can be accomplished.

Late game dungeons, to me and my guildies, are very fun. Killing Lupi always has an adrenaline rush associated with it and when we finally killed Simin there was much whooping and hollering.

I dunno you just compared a WoW 25 man raid, to a low level public quest, I mean really?

Yes this game gets amazingly intense, in dungeons, not in a public quest where who knows how many more people than intended show up.

Dungeon bosses that toss something at you and it’s dodge or die, it’s amazing.
No Troll event isn’t going to have you excited, try Arah Exp.

You are looking in the complete wrong places.

I love how people jump to comparing this game to WoW instantly, who here played WoW when it first launched?
There were no raids, two PvP maps, and just about nothing to do at max level.
WoW has been out fooooorever, this is why new MMOs die, because no one gives them a chance beyond playing for a week and saying, “WoW has way more to do!”

A game cannot launch with 8 years of content already made and added, jesus…

Hermit.1574:

I love how people jump to comparing this game to WoW instantly, who here played WoW when it first launched?
There were no raids, two PvP maps, and just about nothing to do at max level.

Sounds like you’re the one who didn’t play WoW when it first launched! Molten Core and Onyxia were both available at launch. (You zoned into Molten Core via Blackrock Depths, and you needed the Drakefire Amulet for Onyxia) Players had to farm quite a bit for Fire Resistance. There were also no PvP maps. (Hillsbrad Foothills doesn’t count) Battlegrounds came in a later patch.

Hermit.1574:

I dunno you just compared a WoW 25 man raid, to a low level public quest, I mean really?

Yes this game gets amazingly intense, in dungeons, not in a public quest where who knows how many more people than intended show up.

Dungeon bosses that toss something at you and it’s dodge or die, it’s amazing.
No Troll event isn’t going to have you excited, try Arah Exp.

You are looking in the complete wrong places.

I love how people jump to comparing this game to WoW instantly, who here played WoW when it first launched?
There were no raids, two PvP maps, and just about nothing to do at max level.
WoW has been out fooooorever, this is why new MMOs die, because no one gives them a chance beyond playing for a week and saying, “WoW has way more to do!”

A game cannot launch with 8 years of content already made and added, jesus…

I agree with the ending of your post, but not so much the beginning.

Although a “dodge or die” mechanic is needed, I don’t think its necessarily fun or interesting. Arah EXP (once you have completed it) does give a bit of adrenaline especially the first few times, but this quickly wears off once you get a good group or a little experience (let’s face it, multiple professions have solo’ed Lupi)

I DO remember how lacking WoW was when it first launched, and the patch that introduced dire maul. It was a new game and I don’t think the developers realized how much was on the horizon, but they definitely realized the popularity and importance of creating content, adapted, and started pumping it out original challenging content at a crazy pace (Molten Core was available pretty kitten early and shot all of ANet’s dungeon content out of the water).

A big part of the letdown is the lack of communication from ANet, and this had already been discussed in different threads. This game is in it’s infancy, and I realize that in terms of content. But we really don’t have much communication with the dev team, and not nearly enough responses on the forums. And seriously, some of the threads out there are really quality and bring up valid points that need addressing. We just have really no idea what’s on the horizon, and the status quo is getting really old for some of us.

If someone was to tell us “Hey, we’re developing 3 new dungeons right now, interesting boss fights, new mechanics. Aesthetically awesome. Also more rewarding, new skins, random drops that are cool and unique. Should be out in 1-2 months” I might feel different.

Then again, they may be focusing on that whole “world content” aspect – in which case we should look forward to more events like Karka and abandoned zones like Southsun Cove. Oh joy.

Pandabro.8743:

I play games for the adrenaline rush.

You don’t know adrenaline rush till you PVP. Well in this game’s case WvW…

George Steel.1804:

I DO remember how lacking WoW was when it first launched, and the patch that introduced dire maul. It was a new game and I don’t think the developers realized how much was on the horizon, but they definitely realized the popularity and importance of creating content, adapted, and started pumping it out original challenging content at a crazy pace

Blizzard has never pumped out “challenging content at a crazy pace”. They are one of the slowest developers in the business.

(Molten Core was available pretty kitten early and shot all of ANet’s dungeon content out of the water).

Now, that’s your opinion, but I completely disagree. I don’t remember any content that was even mildly interesting until Naxx.

I didn’t really want to spawn a GW2 against WoW debate, it’s just the best example I could come up with. I don’t really want to talk about what WoW/Blizzard does well I’d rather focus the conversation on how we can improve the feeling of immersion and accomplishment in GW2.

I think the formula for an epic experience is a combination of challenge and scale.

Currently:

Meta dynamic events bring a lot of scale, but rarely any challenge as they are usually done with far more than the scaling cap of people so it makes it pretty much trivial.

Dungeons bring a fair amount of challenge (Lets just agree for the sake of argument that they are somewhat challenging) but lack (to me) a sense of scale.

So how can we bring challenge to meta dynamic events and scale to dungeons?

Scaling a dungeon is something no game has mastered, I know you don’t want a WoW vs GW2 debate but I’d like to point out that for all the dungeons WoW has, they are all a joke.
And once you get the gear in any other MMO i have ever played, the place you got the gear from is basically easy mode.

From what I hear, gear or not Exp modes will give you a challenge, and I believe one hit knock downs are very important, it means requiring complete focus on the fight, and not wasting dodges.
When you have literally one second to dodge an attack that just appears below you, it’s intense, and exciting.

As for public event scaling, it would be very challenging due to the fact that any number or people can show up, and who even knows how hard they are trying.

I have seen Shatterer swipe 10 people down at once, but the same attack of course does nothing if everyone dodges.

BUT I have done Cathedral events, and the bosses at those no matter the amount of people there, always seem to be dropping people left and right, but yes, those people get picked back up and the fight goes on.

The content this game has for how new it is blows a ton of MMO’s launch content out of the water, so give them a minute to polish it.

As a side note I’d like to laugh at the guy who said Blizzard cranks out content, currently 70% of the player base quit while waiting for the next patch.
A patch that “Will fix PvP” yet they are waiting months to release it until new raids are complete, new raids that will in term make the old ones useless.

GW2 is off to the best start I have ever seen an MMO have.
And the intense exciting content to come is Arena.

So hang tight, and if arena doesn’t excite you I dunno man, maybe you just don’t like MMORPGs at all…

“(Molten Core was available pretty kitten early and shot all of ANet’s dungeon content out of the water)”
What… In MC every boss was basically Shatterer, 40 people mob the boss and it drops 4 pieces of loot.
You could carry atleast 15 bad players in any 40 man, other than Naxx.
And as soon as half your group had good gear, it was a total joke.

WoW is a game based around the carrot on the stick mentality. The ultimate goal is to keep you (the players) occupied for 6 months-1 year until the next content patch is released. Raiding is essentially a second job.

GW2 doesn’t have a subscription, but they bank off the gem store by using your addictions to buy items to improve your character. Transmutation stones are probably their #1 selling item.

The difference between GW2 and WoW is gear in GW2 is primarily for looks.

Alpha in CoE used to give me that adrenaline rush that you’re talking about. Not anymore though. T.T

PvP and melee/speed running dungeons.

There’s still alot of satisfaction running in organized groups over voice chat and executing things together to flawlessly run through dungeons.

Full melee GL is still a blast for instance.

And of course PvP, specifically for me WvW in the EB jump puzzle is so much fun :x

Fasalina.6571:

Alpha in CoE used to give me that adrenaline rush that you’re talking about. Not anymore though. T.T

How can you expect it to?

Fasalina.6571:

Alpha in CoE used to give me that adrenaline rush that you’re talking about. Not anymore though. T.T

Can you elaborate on why?

I personally find that I get a certain kind of “adrenaline rush” when I run dungeons with different people instead of a static group of the same five people. That might also be attributed to me having a lot of patience for people who are new to the dungeon in particular. The reason behind that is because I don’t know what those others are capable of or how my abilities would synergize with their abilities. I play a Grenade-spec Engineer and I usually bring stacks of Vulnerability and/or Bleeds with me, but if someone else in my group seems to doing that well enough, I could change a few traits around do Burning damage instead. In that case, it’s just being flexible.

The beauty of group composition is that you can complete virtually any dungeon content with a variety of group compositions and manage to reach certain levels of success. Of course, some groups may complete the content faster than others, but ultimately, if that group succeeds, then they succeed regardless of the amount of time spent in the dungeon.

Honestly, comparing a 25-man Raid encounter to a World Event that may have a varying amount of people wouldn’t be a fair comparison. If anything, the Raid is a bit more organized since it requires a set amount of people with certain key members doing their designated part in order to succeed; while the World Events in GW2 is a bit more forgiving to newer, slower, or other wise “casual” players.

I’m willing to bet something in regards to Guild Missions coming up in the next patch. Yes, I’m aware that it’s only being implemented in the open world at this time, but I’m betting that ArenaNet is using that area a test bed to see how well it works out in the open world before bringing in that feature to more specialized areas of the game, like Dungeons and WvW. If it works great, then it could be a step closer to seeing some form of high-capacity dungeons (aka “Raids”). Though, knowing the accessibility this game is for even the most casual of players, I’d imagine the GW2 version of Raid-sized dungeons to incorporate some form of difficulty scaling with a “recommended minimum size” along with a set “maximum size” limit; similar to the scaling mechanics used for most Dynamic Events. Meaning that Raid content could be more accessible to both smaller guilds and larger guilds, the difficulty would scale accordingly depending on how many people participate in the dungeon.

Pandabro.8743:

I’m just wondering if it gets better? Are there moments in this game where you feel completely overwhelmed and immersed in the experience? Or are those all experienced through Dynamic events that just get zerged?

I think the dungeons will get better after they re-vamp them.

Right now, the first generation dungeons seem to suffer from the idea that giving bosses 3x the health will make the fight seem 3x as epic.

It doesn’t. It just makes the fight 3x as long.

To be fair, ArenaNet acknowledged their dungeons leave more to be desired, and they are going back to give them polish:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/robert-hrouda-on-upcoming-changes-to-dungeon-mechanics/

So far I’ve found the dungeons’ stories to be interesting. However, I have not found them to be very fun from the game mechanics point of view. The problem is that we tend to be like army ants swarming over bosses all too often.

When they do add mechanics, they can sometimes feel like they were added just for the sake of adding a game mechanic.

Two examples are Ralena and Vassar in Ascalonian Catacombs’ story mode, and the Shaman in the Volacanic Fractal. In both of those dungeon encounters, there is a game mechanic where we can throw rocks at them.

In Ascalonian Catacombs, we encounter the ghosts of Ralena/Vassar, who were together once in life, and stayed together after death. But why are we throwing rocks at ghosts?

I guess one reason, is that when they get close to each other, they have an ability called “Lover’s Embrace” which makes it important for us to separate them. Throwing rocks at them can both interrupt their attacks, and separate them.

However, why rocks? They could have added a mechanic where we destroy their possessions. Instead of random boulders in the area, there could have been a scattering of mementos they were buried with.

We could have destroyed these items of sentimental value, like crushing a ring Vassar had given Ralena. Upon seeing the sentental item being destroyed, the owner could get angry/hurt and charge towards the person. This would have the same effect of separating them, but would make more sense than throwing rocks at ghosts.

In the Volacanic Fractal, a Shaman protects himself with a shield, which we can break by throwing flaming boulders at it.

We are going into the Shaman’s area of power, and trying to use his own elements against him? This guy eats, breathes, and dreams in fire/lava, and we are going to break his shield with something he’s mastered? Again by throwing rocks?

It would have been more interesting to destroy some of his totems, destroying the objects which enhance his power. That could have weakened him, causing the shield to drop.

Or he could have been so angry at our desecration that he charges at us (causing him to lose his focus, also dropping the shield).

In the end, the graphics are beautiful, but I felt GW2 dungeons didn’t have interesting enough transitions/phases, and ended up just being long burning down of health pools.

Pandabro.8743:

I play games for the adrenaline rush.

Why are you playing a MMO then?