Guild Wars 2

I realize he’s a troll, and therefore meant to troll players, but…

The troll in AC story mode is insanely OP now (he was already pretty hard at release, but meanwhile it seems someone taught him magic). Not only does he cast a bouncing attack with an apparently unlimited range that goes through pillars, ignores stealth, and hits for about 50% of the HP of a level 30 character, but he also casts a huge AoE fear (which often causes players to fall off and die instantly if they land on a platform instead of the water) and a shockwave that hits for about… 100% of the HP of a level 30 character (i.e., 1-shot kill for anyone not wearing heavy armor + full toughness & vitality build). The shockwave “obviously” goes through walls and pillars, too, so you can get killed instantly if you’re trying to revive someone and don’t have LoS to the troll.

And yet his “tooltip” still says just “regenerates health, AoE knockback” (i.e., the two least relevant of his abilities).

Yes, I know he’s avoidable (and killable, by a competent party), but what’s the point of having such an imbalanced boss in story mode? It’s just putting off new players (which are the ones doing story), adding another entry to the (long) list of mistakes in GW2’s dungeon design.

Because it is a troll.

15char?/

Because Anets idea of a fair challenge is a fat sack of health with poorly telegraphed 1-shot kill attacks and where all the normal attacks do so much damage that they must be all dodged despite coming once every two seconds.
The poorly telegraphed attack in this case being the out-of-no-where tremor projectiles that shoot out a moment after his PBAoE knock-back that you would never know were coming from the animation alone.
Indeed it is dumb to have a fight like this appear in what is likely the first experience of dungeons players are going to have. Dropping dead from full hp from an attack you never saw coming, or couldn’t realistically see coming, is a thing long time players are used to but would certainly be a rage inducing moment for a first timer. (Although to be honest even now I grumble when I discover that the only thing that gives me any information on what killed me is the combat log.)

Poorly telegraphed? A giant jump into the air and various trackable shockwaves aren’t telegraphed enough? Icebrood Wolves would like to have a word with you.

The giant jump into the air is “matched” to the red circle around the troll. It’s a typical animation for a circular knockback (which he also casts), not for a linear shockwave.

Anyway, the shockwave would be fine if it didn’t:

a) instantly kill (nearly all) level 35 players it touches (and sometimes even players who dodge it – possibly due to lag)
b) go through walls (so if you’re reviving a player around a corner you get killed without any idea of what hit you)
c) require seeing which way the troll is facing, when the troll loves backing into walls and pillars, making most of its body invisible, especially with player spell effects rendered on top of it
d) come so soon after the extremely frequent bouncing blue beam attack that forces players to use up their endurance (or lose 50% of their health with each hit)

This is the lowest level dungeon in its lowest level mode, and “greeting” new players with instant kills through walls is a great way to make them go back to WoW. It’s not challenge through complexity or teamwork requirements, it’s just cheap difficulty through big numbers.

IMO, the troll should lose its “caster” attacks (blue beam and linear shockwave) and gain an attack where, after the circular stomp, he points at one player, roars, and jumps onto him, knocks him down and keeps pummeling that player (doing, let’s say, 15-20% HP damage per second) until one of the other players uses a CC ability (like fear, pull, knockback, etc.). He would never be immune to CC while casting his “pummel”, so effectively teammates would always be able to “save” the targeted player.

That would be a lot more “troll-like” and would be useful in teaching new players about teamwork and CC.

The current weird mix of “necromancer elementalist troll” makes no sense and just puts off new players (it even puts off old players, because it shows how GW2’s dungeon design is getting worse instead of better).

Yes yes never learn to dodge. You will love HOTW.

It puts off people who have no flexibility. Like I dont know. Chars that insist on meleeing him after getting downed 3 times in a row. (watched more than a few 80 thiefs/warriors do that)

The Fear can be evaded if you learn the animation (He faces you with two hands and crouches down a little). Both the lightning projectile and the Stomp’s shockwaves in the ground are treated as projectiles and can be reflected or absorbed.

You know how many guardians dont try that skill? I die so much on my guard because I simply use it to see if I can reflect everything.

You know what I @lvl 32 engi who ran circles around a pillar and mostly killed the troll think when I make a mistake and die and I watch a team not utilise the pillars to block los. Not space out when I say to or the lightning will bounce off each other.

Heck how they didnt notice that within seconds of him using it I dont know.

I recall a dev in beta saying in a video how they had a group that wiped like crazy. They had to stop and synch then they were able to beat the dungeon.

People cant do that they dont read what their skills do. just 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,0 6 when need healz. Moving optional.

Id agree with what people have been saying. The problem isnt the dungeon diff its that 1-30 open world is so mindnumbingly easy.

B and C I will agree to the wall on the right side of the stairs near the fence it went through for me (may have been lag)

C partially because even though Ive never encountered it I think its possible that he coould do that.

It puts off people who have no flexibility.

It’s not about flexibility. Read what I wrote. I’ve been playing since beta and have done every dungeon on nearly every class. This is about the way a specific boss in AC story mode is (now) clearly imbalanced for the kind of players likely to be doing a level 30 story mode dungeon.

That wasn’t the case before I stopped playing (about one year ago); the troll used to be in line with other story mode bosses.

1-30 open world is so mindnumbingly easy.

1-20 has to be easy because it’s tuned for players who might be completely new to MMOs, or even to computer games in general.

After that, I think the main problem is that sidekicking is broken. Going to a level 30 area with a level 27 character is quite hard (well, in some areas). Doing it with a level 29 to 31 character feels about right. Doing it with a level 80 player (sidekicked down to 31) is ridiculously easy.

I’m pretty sure Arena Net messed up the sidekicking coefficients at some point (I didn’t play GW2 for several months), because I don’t remember low level areas feeling this easy for high level characters.

And that’s probably the reason why Queensdale is now full of level 80 players farming champions.

The projectiles can’t be absorbed, reflected or blocked. The dazing projectile doesn’t even hit naked 35’s for half their HP and it can be avoided on range pretty easily. The shockwaves come right after the jump and are easily noticable on range.
All in all, the troll is an extremely annoying fight with heavy anti melee stuff. But he’s not only very annoying but also very easy.

Queensdale would be full no matter what. The size of the zerg will simply burn out everything. It was happening at launch too.

There is a diff between easy and mind-numbingly easy. New to mmo’s and computer games apparently means having a utter lack reasoning, strategic, reading, and reading comprehension.

Eitherway the troll can be countered by Observing, thinking, communicating. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 wsad that is secondary.

DonQuack.9025:

Queensdale would be full no matter what. The size of the zerg will simply burn out everything. It was happening at launch too.

It was happening at launch because everyone was leveling their characters. Now half the people you see there are level 80s in full exotics.

I started on a pretty high population server, anyway (pre-launch), and Shadow Behemoth fights (for example), tended to have 3-10 players. Now they have 50. And, three months after launch, cave troll fights tended to have 1-5 players. Now they have 50.

Things have changed. Maybe it’s because crafting and ascended weapons encourage farming, or maybe it’s just because the altered sidekicking coefficients make starter zones so easy, but things have definitely changed. Maybe the change was gradual and you didn’t notice it (or maybe you weren’t playing at the start), but I was away for about a year, and I definitely notice it.

Dub.1273:

All in all, the [AC story mode] troll is […] very easy.

You must be playing a completely different game (or, more likely, haven’t done AC in a real level-30 group in ages) if you think the troll is comparable to other AC story mode bosses or to anything else that new players are likely to encounter before level 30.

I guess whenever someone posts a thread about anything, some people will invariably feel the need to reply with some variation of “that’s extremely easy, you guys just suck”, as some kind of ego boost.

I can kill the troll, anyway (I’ve done it hundreds of times on my old characters and probably about a dozen on the new one). But not in a party of new players in real level 30 characters. And that’s what the lowest-level dungeon in its easiest mode should be tuned for.

Not on blackgate. Maybe youre just on a kitten server?

The troll is easy!! Comparable to other ac story mode bosses? You mean explorable? Possibly the easiest comparatively. Its not a you suck its a you and your group had no cohesion. If your group has none EVERYTHING will be hard.

Extremely easy? maybe maybe. If there was a 2-3 guardians and they had shield of absorption out then FK yes! or mesmers with reflection or whatever it is…

Its challenging if you dont know what to do as it should be.

Personally I think they should put kholer as the story mode LT. in the middle. I coulda sworn he was there at launch. He taught you how to dodge. School of hard knocks style.

DonQuack.9025:

The troll is easy!! Comparable to other ac story mode bosses? You mean explorable?

I think the words “story mode” (both in the thread title and the post you just quoted) make it pretty clear that I don’t mean explorable…?

DonQuack.9025:

Personally I think they should put kholer as the story mode LT. in the middle. I coulda sworn he was there at launch.

You would be wrong. He wasn’t.

Kholer is actually a good example of a challenging, interesting, fun and fair boss. By far my favorite boss in AC, possibly in all GW2 dungeons.

Dub.1273:

The projectiles can’t be absorbed, reflected or blocked.

Wiki needs to be changed then. Eitherway los and you will be fine

My apologies I was thinking of something else. Hmmm depending on the group he is the maybe 3rd easiest. 1st and second being ranger and Mad king cole. Hardest being the lovers. Ofcourse I only get the troll about once every 7 or 8 runs.

DonQuack.9025:

Eitherway los and you will be fine

You won’t. The bouncing attack can bounce from other players to you (even if you’re out of the troll’s LoS – or even if you’re cloaked), and the shockwave frequently goes through walls and pillars. Might be deliberate, might be a bug, but the fact is it happens a lot.

Factotum.2093:

DonQuack.9025:

Eitherway los and you will be fine

You won’t. The bouncing attack can bounce from other players to you (even if you’re out of the troll’s LoS – or even if you’re cloaked), and the shockwave frequently goes through and pillars. Might be deliberate, might be a bug, but the fact is it happens a lot.

thats why you space out. frequently goes through walls? There is only 1 wall it went through for me once and that may have been lag. I run ac enough daily to encounter him once or twice. None* of the walls I hide behind does it go through…

Perhaps bug report the walls that it goes through. maybe we fight him in diff areas.

or youre a hpb.

DonQuack.9025:

depending on the group he is the maybe 3rd easiest. 1st and second being ranger and Mad king cole.

So you think the troll is easier than Kasha (who just stands still, tickling you with AoE that does about 1% damage per second) ? Or the Gatekeeper and the Captain, who basically limp after players and raise their hammers for ten seconds before actually hitting anything?

DonQuack.9025:

I run ac enough daily to encounter him once or twice.

You run AC story mode daily, with level 30 players? What for?

DonQuack.9025:

Hardest being the lovers.

I’m guessing you haven’t done AC story mode in a long time. The lovers now stay apart for the entire fight, basically you just need to move out of the AoE, kill the little ghosts with some AoE or a bouncing attack, and avoid attacking if you have confusion. No real need to worry about splitting them after the start, which was the only bit that required some party coordination.

DonQuack.9025:

Perhaps bug report the walls that it goes through.

Yeah, that’ll work. Because it’s not as if the ones I reported 16 months ago (because Kholer’s harpoons go through them too) aren’t still bugged. Oh, wait…

Anyway, I’ve been hit several times by the troll’s shockwave through walls and pillars that Kholer’s harpoons don’t go through, so I doubt the bug is in the walls, it’s probably a separate one that only affects the troll (or maybe shockwave spells in general). Or maybe it’s deliberate, I have no idea. What I do know is that when a new player gets killed by something that he didn’t even see, which came through a wall, he’s not going to find the game very enjoyable.

I did them last night with said group of 30-40 who didnt know how to spend trait points. I would stand by what I said.

Gatekeeper usually spawns with 1 add which ive watched melt down low level players easily. whilst gatekeeper keeps em kd’d. Heaven help the group if it is a necro that poison really negates your heals.

the capt has friends.

you see you are still assuming people have the basic intelligence to kite or to recognize a long hammer swing or to run away and heal when low instead of stopping infront of the boss.

9/10 troll fight

melee die.
ranged hide behind pillar when shockwave is out.
troll die

im done eitherways. My opinion troll = 1 of the easiest. If anything Id say they should replace AC with HOTW.

Pain is weakness leaving the body.

DonQuack.9025:

you see you are still assuming people have the basic intelligence to kite or to recognize a long hammer swing or to run away and heal when low instead of stopping infront of the boss.

I’m not assuming anything. I made a new character (thief) and decided to level from scratch (no crafting), doing mainly dungeons (since I’ve already done all the open-world content several times, while leveling my old L80 characters).

As a result, I’ve done AC story mode about ten times in the last three days, and have been doing it with level 30(ish) players, many of whom are there for the first time.

They don’t seem to have any problem understanding the mechanics of any boss (at least after being downed a couple of times). They keep dying at the troll without any idea of what killed them (ex., because they were around a corner, reviving someone else, and couldn’t even see the troll, but were still targeted).

The troll’s “signature” attack (the stomp) is pretty easy to figure out (well, there’s always some warrior straight from WoW who thinks he’s going to “tank” it, but it’s obvious and “fair” for most players). One-hit 110% damage coming through walls isn’t.

And that attack (along with the bouncing beam) was not there at launch (or when I played before). It seems to have been added to make the troll more challenging for sidekicked L80 players in AC explorable, but was also enabled in AC story, where it just “trolls” new players and makes them lose interest in GW2 dungeons in general.

DonQuack.9025:

I did them last night with said group of 30-40

So you’re leveling a new character too?

Yup I hit 30 and only did AC hmm cant say ac? ascalonian catacombs until I was 40. Now im going to only CM until Im 50 so on and so forth.

1st engi too and my only char that is going to be pure zerker. I love being 35 and tanking more (possibly doing more damage) than lvl 80s. Its shameful.
ok now Im gone.

ok not gone… I find unless I say under lvl 80 when making a group most are lvl 60- 80s doing it.

Ranging basically contains “adadadadadadad” + dodging once per ~15 seconds.