Guild Wars 2

Let’s face it. Dungeons were intended for “coordinated teams of skilled players.” It’s pretty clear that there is a sub-set of the player base that has taken that to heart and learned how to do the dungeons to the point where they find them easy. On the other hand, we often see posts asking for nerfs and otherwise complaining about dungeon difficulty.

While the dungeons can be learned, let’s face it, there is a sub-set of the player base that will avoid this content because they don’t enjoy the steep learning curve. The idea of easy and hard mode dungeons is not new — wiser heads saw this need before I did. However, the changes to AC this past week gives new life to this topic.

Having an easier and a harder mode would accommodate both groups. Harder would challenge those who say dungeons are too easy. It might breathe life into dungeons for those bored with how easy they find them. Easier would provide access to those who avoid them like the plague now. Maybe it’s time to step back from the original intent of dungeons and please both groups?

Wait for the army of posts talking how you are elitist and how casual (mostly excuse for being noob, you can be casual and still good) players will be punished with hard mode. Wait for it, wait for it…..

An easier mode also gets more into the dungeons and as we learn them perhaps we might try it on hard some day.

OR what every other mmo has done with instances. DDO is built on that idea alone. Que AT&T commercial “It’s not complicated….”. Kids even get it.

Horrorscope.7632:

An easier mode also gets more into the dungeons and as we learn them perhaps we might try it on hard some day.

OR what every other mmo has done with instances. DDO is built on that idea alone. Que AT&T commercial “It’s not complicated….”. Kids even get it.

I know, i already said almost same thing on some other topic, i guess most of the players aren’t at kids level.

Horrorscope.7632:

An easier mode also gets more into the dungeons and as we learn them perhaps we might try it on hard some day.

OR what every other mmo has done with instances. DDO is built on that idea alone. Que AT&T commercial “It’s not complicated….”. Kids even get it.

Excellent point. I was in a foray into AC P2 (before patch) by 2 people who’d never done a dungeon and 2 more who had limited experience. While they seemed to enjoy finishing, the new players were not in a rush to do another path. With a more forgiving “get your feet wet” experience, they might have been.

While I appreciate the original design decision — to provide content for skilled players — the dungeon team/ANet as a whole should look at the idea that any content that keeps more players interested is a good thing. Also, revamping an existing dungeon is easier than creating new from scratch.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Let’s face it. Dungeons were intended for “coordinated teams of skilled players.” It’s pretty clear that there is a sub-set of the player base that has taken that to heart and learned how to do the dungeons to the point where they find them easy. On the other hand, we often see posts asking for nerfs and otherwise complaining about dungeon difficulty.

While the dungeons can be learned, let’s face it, there is a sub-set of the player base that will avoid this content because they don’t enjoy the steep learning curve. The idea of easy and hard mode dungeons is not new — wiser heads saw this need before I did. However, the changes to AC this past week gives new life to this topic.

Having an easier and a harder mode would accommodate both groups. Harder would challenge those who say dungeons are too easy. It might breathe life into dungeons for those bored with how easy they find them. Easier would provide access to those who avoid them like the plague now. Maybe it’s time to step back from the original intent of dungeons and please both groups?

It’ll take too much development time to come out with an easy and hard version of each explorable. I’d rather they spend that time coming out with new dungeons or content.

DeathPanel.8362:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Let’s face it. Dungeons were intended for “coordinated teams of skilled players.” It’s pretty clear that there is a sub-set of the player base that has taken that to heart and learned how to do the dungeons to the point where they find them easy. On the other hand, we often see posts asking for nerfs and otherwise complaining about dungeon difficulty.

While the dungeons can be learned, let’s face it, there is a sub-set of the player base that will avoid this content because they don’t enjoy the steep learning curve. The idea of easy and hard mode dungeons is not new — wiser heads saw this need before I did. However, the changes to AC this past week gives new life to this topic.

Having an easier and a harder mode would accommodate both groups. Harder would challenge those who say dungeons are too easy. It might breathe life into dungeons for those bored with how easy they find them. Easier would provide access to those who avoid them like the plague now. Maybe it’s time to step back from the original intent of dungeons and please both groups?

It’ll take too much development time to come out with an easy and hard version of each explorable. I’d rather they spend that time coming out with new dungeons or content.

Well, that’s certainly an opinion. Are you a game developer? I don’t know exactly how much work would be involved in either option, but taking existing environments, mobs and boss fights and tweaking them seems like it would take less time than making new environments, new boss mechanics and of course in the case of new dungeons, new rewards.

There is already an easy and “hard mode”.
Story is easy, exp is “hard” and you are getting appropriate rewards for the effort. If you cant beat the exp and are too lazy to learn to play – you don’t deserve the extra reward (tokens).
Even if you decide to divide the existing explorable mode to the baby/hard mode, players will still complain about the hard mode, because they will still feel entitled and state the same argument over and over again “I want to play the way I want to play” (slack with toughness vit magic find gear, failing all the dodges and crying on forums), they will still feel entitled to faceroll the content designed for those who know how to play and instead of learning to play they will come here to make more posts.
The problem here is the “good enough is good enough” and learn 2 play issues – dividing the already existent story/exp modes into even more difficulties won’t be a solution, but instead will cause even more threads full of nerfarahplz tears.

IndigoSundown.5419:

DeathPanel.8362:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Let’s face it. Dungeons were intended for “coordinated teams of skilled players.” It’s pretty clear that there is a sub-set of the player base that has taken that to heart and learned how to do the dungeons to the point where they find them easy. On the other hand, we often see posts asking for nerfs and otherwise complaining about dungeon difficulty.

While the dungeons can be learned, let’s face it, there is a sub-set of the player base that will avoid this content because they don’t enjoy the steep learning curve. The idea of easy and hard mode dungeons is not new — wiser heads saw this need before I did. However, the changes to AC this past week gives new life to this topic.

Having an easier and a harder mode would accommodate both groups. Harder would challenge those who say dungeons are too easy. It might breathe life into dungeons for those bored with how easy they find them. Easier would provide access to those who avoid them like the plague now. Maybe it’s time to step back from the original intent of dungeons and please both groups?

It’ll take too much development time to come out with an easy and hard version of each explorable. I’d rather they spend that time coming out with new dungeons or content.

Well, that’s certainly an opinion. Are you a game developer? I don’t know exactly how much work would be involved in either option, but taking existing environments, mobs and boss fights and tweaking them seems like it would take less time than making new environments, new boss mechanics and of course in the case of new dungeons, new rewards.

I’m a developer. Not with anet of course. And my “opinion” is informed by facts and experience, unlike yours.

To implement a different difficulty of each of the dungeons takes tons of QA man hours to do right because you need to balance and test the encounters of every single dungeon again against possible exploits and bugs.

It’s not something as simple as just tweaking the mob lists and calling it a day.

Costs and risks outweigh the benefits, which is why you most likely will never see something like that implemented in this game.

Isn’t story mode easy mode? Or am I missing something?

Well we had an easy mode/hard mode version of the dungeons in GW 1 and even then they released an entire Hard Mode version of everything in a free update. Sure it was mostly just increasing health/damage/attack rates of enemies but it was still quite comprehensive so to say Anet couldn’t do something similar is just silly.

Anyway, I’d love to see a dual version of dungeons (I actually suggested this in a prior topic but a new one seems to crop up every now and then) so as to appeal to a wider crowd. Rewards could be tweaked to make HM more lucrative at the cost of higher difficulty, obviously. I mean I’ve managed to now complete all TA arbor paths as my experience with the game increases, but it is incredibly unforgiving (as I’m sure other dungeons are) to newer players/unfamiliars with the dungeon, so easy mode could introduce players to the dungeons where they can learn the layouts/enemies, etc and then progress to HM if they want more rewards as they become more familiar with the dungeon.

DeathPanel.8362:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DeathPanel.8362:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Let’s face it. Dungeons were intended for “coordinated teams of skilled players.” It’s pretty clear that there is a sub-set of the player base that has taken that to heart and learned how to do the dungeons to the point where they find them easy. On the other hand, we often see posts asking for nerfs and otherwise complaining about dungeon difficulty.

While the dungeons can be learned, let’s face it, there is a sub-set of the player base that will avoid this content because they don’t enjoy the steep learning curve. The idea of easy and hard mode dungeons is not new — wiser heads saw this need before I did. However, the changes to AC this past week gives new life to this topic.

Having an easier and a harder mode would accommodate both groups. Harder would challenge those who say dungeons are too easy. It might breathe life into dungeons for those bored with how easy they find them. Easier would provide access to those who avoid them like the plague now. Maybe it’s time to step back from the original intent of dungeons and please both groups?

It’ll take too much development time to come out with an easy and hard version of each explorable. I’d rather they spend that time coming out with new dungeons or content.

Well, that’s certainly an opinion. Are you a game developer? I don’t know exactly how much work would be involved in either option, but taking existing environments, mobs and boss fights and tweaking them seems like it would take less time than making new environments, new boss mechanics and of course in the case of new dungeons, new rewards.

I’m a developer. Not with anet of course. And my “opinion” is informed by facts and experience, unlike yours.

To implement a different difficulty of each of the dungeons takes tons of QA man hours to do right because you need to balance and test the encounters of every single dungeon again against possible exploits and bugs.

It’s not something as simple as just tweaking the mob lists and calling it a day.

Costs and risks outweigh the benefits, which is why you most likely will never see something like that implemented in this game.

I’m not trying to dispute your claims. What I also don’t know was how ANet was able to make a Hard Mode work across three campaigns plus “dungeons” like FoW, DoA and UW. Maybe it was the ton of work you describe. Well, if it never happens in GW2, so be it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Let’s face it. Dungeons were intended for “coordinated teams of skilled players.” It’s pretty clear that there is a sub-set of the player base that has taken that to heart and learned how to do the dungeons to the point where they find them easy. On the other hand, we often see posts asking for nerfs and otherwise complaining about dungeon difficulty.

While the dungeons can be learned, let’s face it, there is a sub-set of the player base that will avoid this content because they don’t enjoy the steep learning curve. The idea of easy and hard mode dungeons is not new — wiser heads saw this need before I did. However, the changes to AC this past week gives new life to this topic.

Having an easier and a harder mode would accommodate both groups. Harder would challenge those who say dungeons are too easy. It might breathe life into dungeons for those bored with how easy they find them. Easier would provide access to those who avoid them like the plague now. Maybe it’s time to step back from the original intent of dungeons and please both groups?

This already exists, story is easy mode, explorer is hard mode. Many on these forums will argue that explorer should still be easy mode, but I guess lacking the “hard” tag has them confused.

Well where the game betrays itself is once you are used to the open world for so long the feeling does not extend to dungeons. The feeling being that the difficulty of the enemy is the same. You have to pull back, play conservative and use teamwork as well as strategy. Which is okay but there were too many liberties taken with the enemies health bars maybe take half to a third off as it takes a ludicrous amount of time to deplete. And the one shot attacks which kill you from regular attackers not the boss or mini-boss begs the question if they got the caliber of weapon to do that then why don’t I.

I would agree that the starting level for story/explorable makes no sense for the following dungeons.

Ascalonian Catacombs 30 Add 5 to each for explorable
Caudecus’s Manor 40
Twilight Arbor 50
Sorrow’s Embrace 60

And Arah outside of story should be 160 fully traited. As the enemies are 3x as hard as any other dungeon.

There is an interview by Dragon Season, in which Colin mentions “Hard mode” instances, harder than explorable. Imagine the nerf threads after that

Source:
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

Bombul.2506:

This already exists, story is easy mode, explorer is hard mode. Many on these forums will argue that explorer should still be easy mode, but I guess lacking the “hard” tag has them confused.

Normal/Hard Modes in GW1 were the same content at varying difficulties. Rewards were better in Hard Mode. Other games had Normal and Heroic Modes where the same content was available at different difficulty, again with varying rewards.

Story Mode doesn’t qualify as an easier option for repeatable group content. Story Mode is just, well, a story that there is no reason to participate with more than once. Explorable has rewards tied to completion, making them worth repeating.

prometheus.1723:

There is an interview by Dragon Season, in which Colin mentions “Hard mode” instances, harder than explorable. Imagine the nerf threads after that

Source:
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

For those not inclined to click the link:

“Are there any plans for a ‘hard mode’ for dungeons?

Colin: It’s interesting, we might do that. Right now we actually talked a lot about it and our biggest concern with it is it’s already hard to find a group to do a dungeon. When you add a hard mode on top of it you’re further fracturing the player base between story mode, three explorable modes and now three hard modes, and it can become extremely hard to find people to play with if we did that. For me, I always felt explorable mode was supposed to be hard mode, and I would like to see us fix the dungeons to the point where they really fall into the category, more than try and add another mode on top of it. So in the February release –we haven’t talked a lot about this- but we actually rebuilt all of the bosses of the Ascalon Catacombs, from scratch. All of them will be brand new in the February release. I remember the encounters have all been re-done as well. And we’re in the midst of going through all the major bosses in the game in 2013 and try to make them more fun to fight against, making them more challenging. Now that’s a huge project. That’s going to take us a really long time to do that. But just in February alone, we’re rolling some of that out and for a lot of people I think their answer for playing the game has been “it’s really fun but there’s not enough challenging stuff for me to do”. And I think that for people looking for a challenge we need to build in a lot more of that optional content that is challenging. I think “optional” is the key – we don’t want to make it so that a casual gamer feels they can’t play the game. We’re trying to go back and rebuild a lot of stuff to just make it a lot more optionally challenging for people looking for that, and [Ascalonian] Catacombs will be the first place we do that. Some of the open world champions are also getting rebuild in February, just some of the regular open world guys. And we’re going to keep doing that every month going forward, just go back and find stuff to try to make it a bit more fun."

The only issue I see with that is a lack of repeatable dungeon content for those who prefer a more relaxed experience. If story is supposed to be normal mode, make it worth re-doing.