Guild Wars 2

I know there are a lot of bad thieves out there but when you have a truely good thief in your party, one that really knows the class, they can bring more to the group then any other class. Many people probably believe this but yet every day I see dozens of lfgs saying no thieves. Even in cof p1 farm teams straight up kick my thief(and obviously others) just cause of the bad stigma. People just don’t seem to care that other classes can bring in more than whAt they assume.

randomfightfan.4091:

I know there are a lot of bad thieves out there .

this is the reason….
they die too much….and its not due to the build…i play a glasscannon too with light armor also.

If you look at classes with worst players, thief is one of the first 2, unfortunately in dungeons, the class seems not so forgiving as other classes.

As a thief with dm title and who does a minimum of 6 dungeon runs per day, I can safely say thieves bring a lot to a dungeon run. Btw the PERFECT team comp for Coe is 5 thieves. Tested and true

LordByron.8369:

randomfightfan.4091:

I know there are a lot of bad thieves out there .

this is the reason….
they die too much….and its not due to the build…i play a glasscannon too with light armor also.

If you look at classes with worst players, thief is one of the first 2, unfortunately in dungeons, the class seems not so forgiving as other classes.

It is due to the build, at least partially. Unlike other medium/light armoured professions, we are more limited to close® range playing. Only our clusterbomb has a range of 1200, but it moves so slow, it’s only effective when used in a closer range. Combine this with a medium armour, a glasscannon build and there you go: A class that is not forgiving at all.

But agreed on op, thieves are stigmatized. When build right we can bring a lot to the game. Having a supportive thief in the team actually makes the game more forgiving to other classes. Stealth reviving can correct almost any mistake a character makes.

Ugh, yet another stigma sadly support thief is not the only good thief. Yes thief is a high risk class but they are also high reward. With my skill set I am able to melee bosses where most warriors stay ranged, we are just able to avoid all that damage completely. It takes time to learn how to do that but when a thief can do that, the become the best class in that dungeon run. The thief doesn’t need to stick in the back 100% with the sbow only to blink to downed allies. There is a time and place for everything the trick is knowing how to approach those situations.

^I was just giving an example, since I’m running a supportive thief myself.
SB with stealthing when outnumbered / Daze-locking when fighting a boss with mostly frontal attacks.

PS: I wouldn’t say best class. Imo, a entirely mixed profession team is the best team.

if its the build (i think is not) its a skill issue the same…

Why do you go to dungeons with a suboptimal build?

Btw you see for yourself how thief players die and what they do…
You see its not a range problem………i stay at midrange with my glasscannon mesmer and at melee with my knight ele……without dying so much….

The problem is too many bad thieves ruin reputation of good ones…

Thieves are good enough in dungeons, just improve our built-in evades in some skills (Flanking strike and Deadly Blossom mostly)

Ran SE story last night.
There was myself (thief)
Mesmer
Guardian
Necro

On the boss where he brings out 3 golems, each time and multiple times my team actually died. They were sloppy, stood too close to each other and attacted multiple hits downing them in seconds. Each time I was able to res them using our aoe stealth/heal, even safely res behind our smoke wall (keep forgetting names).
Then every 40secs I would give the group 10 secs of swiftness, fury and might.

If i’m honest, I got downed once.

I play a DD/SB thief in Knights gear/berserker trinkets/weaps
I deal decent dmg and don’t drop like a paper bag in the rain.

I was the sole reason we managed SE story with 4 people who had never done it before. (and I wanted my guildies to learn through mistakes rather than myself telling them every step) sure I told them a few bits here and there.

But i knew as a thief I could pick them back up and help them.

Thieves can get the scepters in AC p1 without agroing anything.

as for support I offer
AoE healing
dark field
smoke field
AoE stealth
whirl finisher
not getting downed myself
an extra two thieves for burst or damage mitigation (more targets for the boss to choose from = chance they will take a few hits)

Thieves make your lives easier, maybe not as direct or apparent as the guardian with boons, but with vulnerability and weakness.

because the thief is the first one to be stomped by a wayward AoE, let alone direct targeting from the boss.

because heavy classes deal the same DPS as thieves, but can live longer. guards have slightly less damage, but way more survivibility so people seem to like those

stealth = Ash legion spy kit consumble

randomfightfan.4091:

they can bring more to the group then any other class.

hahahahaha, what can you bring more then guardian or warrior? afther them mesmer?

JJBigs.8456:

because heavy classes deal the same DPS as thieves, but can live longer. guards have slightly less damage, but way more survivibility so people seem to like those

stealth = Ash legion spy kit consumble

Heavy classes has 7% more damage reduction than medium classes. Find me a guardian that has similiar damage to glass thief. Guardians have kitten offensive traits.

You can’t br stealthed while moving on being downed.

Sovta.4719:

randomfightfan.4091:

they can bring more to the group then any other class.

hahahahaha, what can you bring more then guardian or warrior? afther them mesmer?

What does warrior bring except dps? They have very limited flexibility.

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

Sovta.4719:

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

The only supportish shout is “Shake It Off”, rest are dps (no one uses “Fear Me!”). The only decent banners are Banner of Discipline and War Banner, yet again mostly for dps.

Thieves are better for pvp, for pve you have better options (guardian, warrior). I always prefer a party with warriors or guardians only. It makes things easier.

galimx.8907:

Thieves are better for pvp, for pve you have better options (guardian, warrior). I always prefer a party with warriors or guardians only. It makes things easier.

1000 times this !

haviz.1340:

Sovta.4719:

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

The only supportish shout is “Shake It Off”, rest are dps (no one uses “Fear Me!”). The only decent banners are Banner of Discipline and War Banner, yet again mostly for dps.

Dude, what about the fact that my shouts heal (allies within range) for 5k every 14 seconds? AND give you all might and fury AND hit the dungeon boss with 10 stacks of vulnerability meaning 10% more damage… From everyone, so really the other shouts aren’t that uselss – Oh and coupled with my soldier runes i remove 4 conditions every 14 seconds too, thank me later squishy theif

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas → 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

Prezzy.2783:

Dude, what about the fact that my shouts heal (allies within range) for 5k every 14 seconds? AND give you all might and fury AND hit the dungeon boss with 10 stacks of vulnerability meaning 10% more damage… From everyone, so really the other shouts aren’t that uselss – Oh and coupled with my soldier runes i remove 4 conditions every 14 seconds too, thank me later squishy theif

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

Yes, you sacrifice DPS. There are builds with 100% crit chance. Thieves can remove conds (for themselves) better than warriors.

I can comfortably drop warriors in pvp with similiar cookie cutter combo.

Sorry, i didnt catch that…

You have a puny health pool of 9k whilst mine is up at 27,000?

Edit: And i think you mean SOME thieves can remove conditions better than SOME warriors? And with yours being a DPS build i highly doubt you fall into this category.

All i can say is that from my experience with theives in dungeons my most usefull trait becomes ‘Revive 10% faster’

Prezzy.2783:

Sorry, i didnt catch that…

You have a puny health pool of 9k whilst mine is up at 27,000?

Edit: And i think you mean SOME thieves can remove conditions better than SOME warriors? And with yours being a DPS build i highly doubt you fall into this category.

All i can say is that from my experience with theives in dungeons my most usefull trait becomes ‘Revive 10% faster’

Now you’re just making things out of thin air. If you have 27k it means you’re playing pretty tanky build, dps is something you lack. Thief base healh is 10,8k not 9k and most of good thieves take 15 vitality for additional dodge. Secondly, hp doesn’t mean everything (unless you’re bad), guardians have “puny health pool of 9k” as well yet they are more survivable then warriors. Thief can tank 5 silver mobs almost indefinitely.

You remove condition with you weapon (sword), self-heal and signet and all of those skills contribute to damage (weapon, stealth for backstab if playing d/x and more crit chance).

Now, I have both warrior and thief so I can certainly judge them better than you can (at least from experience).

Lemme guess, theif is your main and you are not biased?

Warrior has far too many immobilize and knockdown skills to set up your 100 Blades for theif to be a viable counter.

I must admit, condi theives used to be my achilles heel – that was until i got the soldier runes, now the only thing that i find difficult is, urm, another Warrior.

randomfightfan.4091:

Btw the PERFECT team comp for Coe is 5 thieves. Tested and true

how about no

you doing a five man run with friends and getting a decent time doesn’t really make it a PERFECT team composition, if such thing even exists outside the minds of CoF1 farmers and DM-title lusting players about to do Arah 4

I would LOVE to see 5 theives against Lupi – 1 theif can ruin it for the whole group, never mind 5!

Prezzy.2783:

I would LOVE to see 5 theives against Lupi – 1 theif can ruin it for the whole group, never mind 5!

If only that noob Fury would stop being lazy and get his Thief solo lupicus up.

Also I’d love to see how 5 thieves make CoE faster “legitly” other than the fact you are talking about running all 3 paths faster since its easier to blink on thieves.

Sovta.4719:

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

I think you lack the pvp experience if you think throw bolas -> 100b actually works on anything, especially a thief. Saying this just plummeted any credibility you could have had.

Warriors are in need of a buff in pvp, they dont lack damage but have no reliable way to actually do the damage on anything. Plenty of threads about this in the warrior boards, you may have a read.

For the topic at hand, Ill take a thief over a warrior/guardian any day, you only see what you’re missing after playing one in the higher level fractal or playing with a good thief.

Cheers.

Prezzy.2783:

I would LOVE to see 5 theives against Lupi – 1 theif can ruin it for the whole group, never mind 5!

And I would love to see your musketeer.

LOL thieves. Stay in WvW where you belong. Even very good thieves that I party with switch to a different class when we run dungeons.

well a good thief is always welcome with me its really good single target dps, good at bosses and add alot of utility.

Takato.4976:

Sovta.4719:

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

I think you lack the pvp experience if you think throw bolas -> 100b actually works on anything, especially a thief. Saying this just plummeted any credibility you could have had.

Warriors are in need of a buff in pvp, they dont lack damage but have no reliable way to actually do the damage on anything. Plenty of threads about this in the warrior boards, you may have a read.

For the topic at hand, Ill take a thief over a warrior/guardian any day, you only see what you’re missing after playing one in the higher level fractal or playing with a good thief.

Cheers.

I wasn’t stating that this work on anything, but most theives yes, it does – maybe i wasnt clear enough. D/D theives that try to dance around your static 100B just get downed. Stealth yeah, its good but using LB just pop the AOE around yourslf and at least you are safe in the knowledge they cannot Melee you.

I know you love your squishy theif but please man, try not to be biased in your judgement. Hell i’ve seen warriors down multiple theives in pvp and WvW.

Prezzy.2783:

haviz.1340:

Sovta.4719:

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

The only supportish shout is “Shake It Off”, rest are dps (no one uses “Fear Me!”). The only decent banners are Banner of Discipline and War Banner, yet again mostly for dps.

Dude, what about the fact that my shouts heal (allies within range) for 5k every 14 seconds? AND give you all might and fury AND hit the dungeon boss with 10 stacks of vulnerability meaning 10% more damage… From everyone, so really the other shouts aren’t that uselss – Oh and coupled with my soldier runes i remove 4 conditions every 14 seconds too, thank me later squishy theif

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

i am feeling depressed again …. any comment from a-net side ???

I made a CoF run this morning. We had 2 thieves, 2 guardians, and an engineer. We chewed through it, and the thieves helped a lot. Thieves do damage and evade, right? Nobody expects the thieves to take much of a beating. I like having uber thief damage around. I’ve got an 80 guardian and and 80 necro, but I can see how a thief would get frustrated in a dungeon if their support wasn’t…supporting

As people have said (truthfully) time and time again:

It’s easier to play and succeed in instances with a guardian or warrior than any other class. When played well, all classes are equally valuable in instances, but when played badly, the non-soldier professions doesn’t get a free get-out-of-jail passive mitigation card.

Basically, Warrior/Guardian parties are preferred by puggers because you don’t know your teammates and they’re the classes with the lowest skill floor.

A bad player playing a warrior or guardian still contributes without getting killed every five seconds because his survivability is largely passive and doesn’t require as much player reaction, knowledge, or skill as another class does to achieve the same (or often better) degrees of utility or damage.

When you’re pugging, you can’t assume your teammates aren’t bad, so it’s just plain easier to limit the party to the easiest classes to play. This is why people are always screaming for Warrior/Guardian parties. Because a bad non-soldier gets killed a lot and actively harms your team. A bad soldier profession gets killed far less and passively benefits your team while dealing solid DPS.

It’s not that non-soldiers are weak in instances. Every class has really solid utility and damage builds that equal or surpass the situational utility of warriors and guardians, but these builds are just plain harder to play effectively than a standard warrior/guardian setup. Thieves, depending on build, can situationally out-dps or out-control every class in the game, but not both at once, and not without requiring a lot of reflexive and highly skilled play from the thief. Simply put, people don’t like theives because playing them optimally in instances is hard, whilst playing warriors/guardians optimally in instances, especially in full war/guard parties, is easy. People want the easiest, quickest runs.

Basically, Warrior/Guardian parties are preferred by puggers because you don’t know your teammates and they’re the classes with the lowest skill floor.

A bad player playing a warrior or guardian still contributes without getting killed every five seconds because his survivability is largely passive and doesn’t require as much player reaction, knowledge, or skill as another class does to achieve the same (or often better) degrees of utility or damage.

By that logic, classes other than warrior or guardian are Rube Goldberg inventions that make the game harder, just to make it harder. Granted, wandering through the world with my guardian takes less effort than with my necro, but in a dungeon, anything goes. If a class takes twice the effort to survive in a dungeon as another, with no real benefit, what’s the point? I’m not saying that is necessarily the case, but that’s what it sounded like you were saying.

Serrated Owl.4176:

Basically, Warrior/Guardian parties are preferred by puggers because you don’t know your teammates and they’re the classes with the lowest skill floor.

A bad player playing a warrior or guardian still contributes without getting killed every five seconds because his survivability is largely passive and doesn’t require as much player reaction, knowledge, or skill as another class does to achieve the same (or often better) degrees of utility or damage.

By that logic, classes other than warrior or guardian are Rube Goldberg inventions that make the game harder, just to make it harder. Granted, wandering through the world with my guardian takes less effort than with my necro, but in a dungeon, anything goes. If a class takes twice the effort to survive in a dungeon as another, with no real benefit, what’s the point? I’m not saying that is necessarily the case, but that’s what it sounded like you were saying.

I’m not saying i agree with the implementation, I don’t. I feel like designing variant “skill levels” directly in to professions in a game without defined roles leads to the exact opposite problem of the one it tried to achieve.

You remove the trinity to remove reliance on specific classes, but by making certain classes simply easier to succeed with, you create the climate of class exclusion that we have now. It’s a problem of player perception that’s reinforced by the design itself, and effectively, creates the “LFG, Heavy armors only” problem that people are seeing.

In essence, you’ve got a system that allows a successful composition of any number of classes, but one that rewards a specific composition with less risk and the same reward.

In essence the other classes, given current instance mechanics are in fact rube goldberg inventions. They add flavor and support variant playstyles, but in the grand scheme of things you don’t need more than one homogenous class to complete content and therefore the path of least resistance and highest chance of success is the one that the most efficiency focused players gravitate toward.

for all the thieves and eles I’ve ran with, they are either the best babysitters, or those who get 2 shot downed by every single mob. Its much more obvious to see whether they know what they are doing imo.

Prezzy.2783:

haviz.1340:

Sovta.4719:

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

The only supportish shout is “Shake It Off”, rest are dps (no one uses “Fear Me!”). The only decent banners are Banner of Discipline and War Banner, yet again mostly for dps.

Dude, what about the fact that my shouts heal (allies within range) for 5k every 14 seconds? AND give you all might and fury AND hit the dungeon boss with 10 stacks of vulnerability meaning 10% more damage… From everyone, so really the other shouts aren’t that uselss – Oh and coupled with my soldier runes i remove 4 conditions every 14 seconds too, thank me later squishy theif

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

I’m a little late to the party but I have to laugh at people playing Warriors, touting their uberness over the other professions. The Warrior is the profession beloved by the gods at ArenaNet, receiving buffs when everyone else is getting nerfed, when they were laughably overpowered to begin with.

Why are there so many Warriors out there? Because it’s as close as you can get to playing on autopilot in this game. Yeah, they rock the content better than any other. The fact that is generally excluded from this claim when it’s made by puffy chested Warrior aficionados is that it actually has little to do with the player and is mostly as a result of absurdly over-balanced profession being permitted to excel at everything.

By the way, I also have a Warrior. It’s my farming tool and it’s a dang good one. But I don’t fool myself into believing there’s anything special about how I play it that makes it shine. The kitten thing would shine in anyone’s hands, so long as they have a heartbeat and a keyboard.

Most dungeons it’s worth having a Thief for Shadow Refuge alone. There are any number of difficult situations that one ability can get you through.

I don’t feel like kicking a thief if I see one in a pug but I do feel a bit cautious (not as much as when I see a ranger but more than any of the other classes). Thieves can be good in dungeons, no doubt there, the problem is that the gameplay for thieves differ more between open world pve and dungeons than it does for any other class (I’ve got all classes at lvl80 and switch between them for dungeons depending on my mood). Especially d/d BS thieves can make me cringe, in open world pve their combo is often enough to take out an enemy or leave it damaged enough that it’s a quick kill while in dungeons a less-than-good thief will insist on doing their same rotations which only leads to subpar damage (compared to other thief builds, based on CDs and bad initiative management) and downed thieves since stealth won’t cause bosses to stop attacking and there is often a ton of AoE damage going on which will kill squishy thieves.

A well played thief is a boon to the group but a badly played thief is a bigger drag on the group than the other classes (again with the exception of rangers… bloody pet AI)

Prezzy.2783:

haviz.1340:

Sovta.4719:

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

The only supportish shout is “Shake It Off”, rest are dps (no one uses “Fear Me!”). The only decent banners are Banner of Discipline and War Banner, yet again mostly for dps.

Dude, what about the fact that my shouts heal (allies within range) for 5k every 14 seconds? AND give you all might and fury AND hit the dungeon boss with 10 stacks of vulnerability meaning 10% more damage… From everyone, so really the other shouts aren’t that uselss – Oh and coupled with my soldier runes i remove 4 conditions every 14 seconds too, thank me later squishy theif

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

I could easily rip you apart and explain just how dumb you truly are, but it’s not worth risking the forum ban over.

What i will say though is every 14 seconds? 5k Heal? Lol no. If traited, FGJ and Shake it off are on a 20 second cd and on my Mark is on a 24 second cooldown, the 5k heal? No, each one will AoE heal for about 1k, it scales terribly with clerics, and you’d be a fool to use clerics gear to boost the healing capability of your shouts as it’d gimp your damage majorly.

Dungeon bosses (The final ones) have a buff that causes vulnerability to last less than normal, meaning your OOM is effectively 10% damage increase for i’d say.. oh 2 seconds on a 24 second cooldown.

4 Condition removal, yes, every 14 seconds. No, someones either oblivious to the actual cooldowns, coming up with facts out their kitten or can’t count.

and don’t even get me started on how you think Throw Bolas + 100 Blades actually works flawlessly, are you aware that other classes besides you have ways to remove conditions?

Thiefs are very unfriendly True, but they can be done properly, I Agree

so why is it that I Still dislike Theifs even tho im attempting to make very bad humor in groups and such? (I Admit i have horrible humor at times)

Simple … Look above you the posts above me … did this just get derailed becouse someone stated my Thiefs are the best class EVAR and that 5 thiefs are the best Combo EVARZ
And then people started going Wut? And thus now we have this large arguement going on?

THIS is what makes me Dispise Thiefs, Most of them that do good ‘proper’ builds tend to be pretty egotistic / high on themselfs and they just dont mix well with other people

I Dunno maybe we all remeber D&D or some other MMO / RPG Game where the thief/rouge keept backstabbing there Paladin/GrayGuard/BlackGuard or what knock and there just annoyed as heck that each time the Rouge/Thief guy is involved arguements tend to follow them.

Maybe eveyone has the same experiance as me in the past about them and hints why they eather go NA UH THERE DA BEST
or go … PLEASE SUSH IT

I Dunno

My Point is however is simple. This game is meant to be Social, Why do I need to be … very Elitist in order to play a class effectively, And why do i need to take a gamble on taking in a Thief who might be one of thouse guys that is just going to harp on eveyone? Or Might be the subject that brings about a flame war or such?

Just Saying

I play a Thief and I’m not anti-social. In some cases other people in the group know better than I do and I take their orders without complaint, in others nobody knows what going on so I take more of a leadership role, but any Thief that thinks he can just do the whole thing on his own is an idiot, so there’s no point to making an kitten of yourself.

THACO.7021:

I Dunno maybe we all remeber D&D or some other MMO / RPG Game where the thief/rouge keept backstabbing there Paladin/GrayGuard/BlackGuard or what knock and there just annoyed as heck that each time the Rouge/Thief guy is involved arguements tend to follow them.

This might be a reason as well I suppose (it’s been brought up in previous discussions on the same subject) although no need to look at any other game, there are plenty of examples here. For some reason the thief board seems to be the one with the most hostile tone and e.g. an engineer who’s been repeatedly told that dying to a BS chain “is just a l2p issue, noob” might well have some lingering resentment to the class either consciously on subconsciously.

For those defending thieves, mind posting what build(s) you run for dungeons?

I’ll go ahead and say I don’t like thieves, but not because they suck, and I surely won’t refuse to invite one on runs, but I just don’t enjoy playing one myself. That being said, I know the value of a competent, skilled thief no a team. But I think you nailed it on the head in your original post: there’s too many bad thieves out there. Actually let me rephrase, there’s too many pvp thieves playing horribad in pve. If I get a thief on my runs that knows his class inside and out, can adapt to different situations, and is just a good player, you bet I’ll be asking him/her again if they would like to do dungeon runs. So for me anyway it’s more a stigma against bad players than thieves themselves. it is sad though that these worthless tools will ban thieves from runs. I’ll never ban a class for any reason, that’s just childish nonsense. I’m sorry you have experienced this, jsut want you to know it’s not the majority of the community that does this. Only those no-talent azzclowns that think they are the leet of the game. Just get a good chuckle out of them because they are usually only carried by their teams anyway.

For those defending thieves, mind posting what build(s) you run for dungeons?

I play a support Thief. I run DD/SB, with stealth heal, Roll for Ini, Shadow Refuge, Thieves’ Guild, and the last utility varies but is usually poison or Shadow Signet. I have my traits 20/0/0/30/20, arranged to provide plenty of dodging, and plenty of buffs, debuffs, and damage provided by Steal. I wear mostly Reyna and Shiro armor. I’m certainly no tank, but I’m not terribly squishy either, in most situations I don’t die any more than any other player in the group, and I more often die in a sacrificial manner to make an objective easier than because I screwed something up and slowed everyone down.

In dungeons I tend to use SB for damage most of the time, applying poison fields as necessary and throwing Cluster Bombs, but the primary benefit to having an SB Thief around is that we are combo masters. I love nothing more than to team with Rangers, Guardians, and Mesmers. If they drop a field, I’ll combo it several times in seconds with Cluster Bomb. You can get some crazy healing from a Ranger well and a SB Thief.

If anyone drops, I Refuge and heal. If there’s an out of the way objective (like in CM path 1), I Refuge and run to take it so others don’t have to. If there’s a spot to stand (like in the Underground Fractal), I Refuge and stand on it. I’m fairly good with timing and jumping elements as well, when necessary. The point isn’t to have the best build, you can have the best build and be a lead weight to your team, the point is to know how to use your tools, know how to play the dungeon (or be willing and able to learn), and adapt to changing situations well.

The problem with thieves is that when the player is good, they’re like any other class, you can do anything with them. But when the player is bad, they are the worst. Let’s face it, what would you have, a bad thief or a bad guardian/mesmer/ele?

Also they don’t bring much to the table, the only unique thing is the stealth (which outside revives is very situational to some dungeon paths), but a mesmer with a little effort can do just as much, albeit less often.

After getting my mesmer I pretty much shelved my thief for dungeons, and frankly, while i don’t discriminate against thieves when grouping, i tend to be a little weary when i see one, especially on a hard dungeon. But if you must bring one to the dungeon, ohoni’s advice is top notch, using the blast finisher on SB to buff party members is the best thing you can constantly do in a dungeon to support your teammates. Not dieing every 5 seconds is good too

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Prezzy.2783:

haviz.1340:

Sovta.4719:

They can support you with shouts and have some nice banners (i play guardian mostly now so don’t know them really well.
But then again DPS with nice survivability is always good for me

The only supportish shout is “Shake It Off”, rest are dps (no one uses “Fear Me!”). The only decent banners are Banner of Discipline and War Banner, yet again mostly for dps.

Dude, what about the fact that my shouts heal (allies within range) for 5k every 14 seconds? AND give you all might and fury AND hit the dungeon boss with 10 stacks of vulnerability meaning 10% more damage… From everyone, so really the other shouts aren’t that uselss – Oh and coupled with my soldier runes i remove 4 conditions every 14 seconds too, thank me later squishy theif

And BEFORE you say i sacrifice DPS for this i have might stacking on crits and perma-fury meaning 68% crit chance, Can comfortably drop theives in both PvP and WvW – with 2 skills – Bolas -> 100 Blades = Dead squishy theif.

I could easily rip you apart and explain just how dumb you truly are, but it’s not worth risking the forum ban over.

What i will say though is every 14 seconds? 5k Heal? Lol no. If traited, FGJ and Shake it off are on a 20 second cd and on my Mark is on a 24 second cooldown, the 5k heal? No, each one will AoE heal for about 1k, it scales terribly with clerics, and you’d be a fool to use clerics gear to boost the healing capability of your shouts as it’d gimp your damage majorly.

Dungeon bosses (The final ones) have a buff that causes vulnerability to last less than normal, meaning your OOM is effectively 10% damage increase for i’d say.. oh 2 seconds on a 24 second cooldown.

4 Condition removal, yes, every 14 seconds. No, someones either oblivious to the actual cooldowns, coming up with facts out their kitten or can’t count.

and don’t even get me started on how you think Throw Bolas + 100 Blades actually works flawlessly, are you aware that other classes besides you have ways to remove conditions?

Okay, i appologise that my figures weren’t exactly on the dot but unfortunately i have a life outside of Tyria so don’t memorise every inch.

That being said i respect you correcting me, although, you are wrong. I run Full zerkers armor along with balance trinkets (trifoge amulet, solaria circle of sun, sunari circle of moon, 2 x ancient karka shell earring). My only healing comes from these Trinkets and also my Sup runes of divinity. Even with this Very minimal healing i heal for 1700hp each shout, so your 1k is wholly inacurate.

I was wrong in what i said, you were wrong in what you said – 2 wrongs dont make a right but dont speak to me like you are some eliteist of a higher order than me.

And as for your dungeons comment, is there only one mob to fight in a dungeon? Because last i checked i fought more than one ‘boss’ on the way to the Final Boss. Yes, certain bosses convert conds to buffs – either way dude, every mob i hit with OMM goes down 10% faster… (albeit for a given time)… correct?

And to finish, i never said that Throw Bolas → 100B was flawless – but it does work wonders when you have a d/d theif trying to dance around you. In case you were wondering my 2nd weapon is LB – this also has 5sec Immob – not to mention stomp / bulls charge. Yeah, sure, they’ll be able to break 1 maybe 2 immob but 2 immobilize + 2 knowckdowns – now i think that would be a struggle. After all, 100B only need to hit a theif once and they won’t be getting up.

Thank you and goodnight.

thief runs on initiative.
while the initial burst would be higher then any other job (especially when might stacked by others), thief is lacking on a prolonged fight in dungeons.
unlike wvw, that you can drop someone in 2 seconds with burst, dungeon mobs have tons of health..
doing every utility that burns initiatives go against sustained dps!
and while the thief are stealthing, he actually dump all agro on his other teammates!, thus the survive till the end thief. its fine if the group is organized and heavily supported / tanked, but with pugs, dropping agro on an unskilled teammates could mean wipe!
and this is where the “ressing” part shines.. cause the thief that is cleaned from all agro is the only ones standing alive!
thief would be good on a skilled organized teams! not so much on pugs dungeon runs where skills varies across the group.

galimx.8907:

Thieves are better for pvp, for pve you have better options (guardian, warrior). I always prefer a party with warriors or guardians only. It makes things easier.

Then clearly, you’ve either rolled with bad thieves or do not understand the class. The reason I say this is because in these threads there are always plenty of posts describing exactly why the thief is a boon to any party… and then someone just ignores that and posts comments like this. Just need to jump on the hate-wagon, huh?