Guild Wars 2

I think the problem with raiding is that ‘min maxing’ is often disguising an attempt by an individual to mold a group into something that’s fits into a their narrow perception on how thery understand a fight, they try to normalize and simplify. Learned behaviour. This is the opposite of the Guild wars ethos where diversity of build is to be embraced. an example would be 1 person has maximized their build for dps, another hasn’t, and has less dps but more auras that suit their style of gameplay. The reality is that both groups would do just as well.

It’s simple, I don’t like spending hours doing one thing in games. I don’t mode the first few times. But not everytime. That’s why I don’t play HoT meta maps. I don’t like having to play a map for 2 hours to get anything good out of it. Now if a raid took something like 30 minutes to get done, and you didn’t have to wait hours getting a PUG team together, maybe I’d try it. But I just don’t like wasting my time getting no where, when I could be doing other things. That’s why I don’t raid.

Not afraid, just don’t like wasting several hours of my day finding a full group and several more hours waiting for them to play correctly if ever. I also don’t feel like downloading an app or giving somekinda 3rd party site any of my information for whatever that gear site is.
Takes too much time and dedication and just becomes an unfun situation.

You can’t pug a raid, unless you like a bad time.

Quasar.1756:

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Raiding has MANY requirements. It’s certainly NOT for everyone. Every boss is different and has a different set of mechanics to learn and master. The composition of the group also varies from boss to boss. Think of it as many very difficult puzzles requiring experience, build, and gear. The MOST important thing is a group of 10 people that get along well.

Being in a good guild is probably the most important first step. Sure you can PUG it, but wow, you really need to get lucky to find the right group. Raids take LOTs of practice and patience. The better ‘instructor’ you have the smoother the experience. Fortunately my guild has about a dozen ‘hard core’ raiders that have no problem spending hours and hours learning how to beat the raid. The other dozen ‘casual’ raiders like myself then learn from them and to some extent get ‘carried’ through. VG is pretty easy with a decent build, but Gorseval is a real DPS check with the last nerfs that came out.

Everyone has to work together bringing the right thing to the table. It is NOT a walk in the park like most of the rest of GW2 content.

{{{Giggles a bit}}} You do realize some ppl are 7 and 8 manning these raids right? There’s

even a video of VG being 5 manned. Some of the raids are being done with only one

type of profession (like an all Ele/Necro/ etc…) and have beaten bosses. Some groups

have claimed to have all exotics and beaten bosses. I personally saw on my alt a person

that linked their gear (all blues) and still beaten bosses. Now take all that I said into

account and read your post and try not to giggle as hard…good day

I am speaking to those who clearly are NOT raiding, not to those who CAN 5 man VG. As a pug or ‘newbie’ you cannot get all upset about being given certain requirements. These 5 man teams are not running random builds or any old blue gear, and they CERTAINLY have done it MANY times. People with attitudes like you are what turn people off from raiding.

its not an easy thing to get together 9 other people who are either also new at raids or ok with you being new and being able to set aside a not insignificant amount of time to be able to practice them.
plus the amount of elitist bs from many who have actually learned the raids is very off putting

Because the game was originally sold to the type of customer who doesn’t raid (“casuals”).

With Anet’s abrupt decision to cater to a different type of customer (“traditional” MMO players), many of the original customers won’t take to the resulting change in content.

That’s why you’re seeing so much unhappiness with raids.

Quasar.1756:

Ok, ok….I get your point but you missed mine. My attitude allows people to run with

the gear and builds they want. You are suggesting to new raiders they have to be geared

out the wazooo and have a certain build in order to even be successful in killing bosses.

The odds of being in a group of 10 people that NEVER raided before in gw2 are very low

up to this point of HoT release. I mean, it’s to the point, in which; ppl are selling SV boss

kills and their only requirement is gold…they are not concerned about gear or builds.

Though I agree with knowing what you are doing, in all honesty, it’s posts like yours that

actually scare ppl into not raiding and makes them feel like they have to be a certain

way to enjoy the game. But hey, to each his own doesn’t make you immune to the

backlash.

I just mentioned gear as important, but didn’t really get to specific. Let me give an example. If you come in with lots of Toughness, Vitality, and Healing with almost no Power, Condition, Precision, Expertise then your DPS will be much lower and if everyone did that your going to run into the enrage timer and fail. You don’t need to be all Ascended or have the perfect gear but the better the gear the easier the raid is.

In my case, I know my skill is lacking so I strive for near perfect gear so I can make up for lack of skill with better DPS. Those who can execute with perfection can out DPS me with lesser gear I have no doubt.

Let me give an example on builds. I may be specked to cause lots of vulnerability say, but the group has already got that covered and mine will be wasted so instead I should speck to boost my critical hit chance when striking vulnerable foes rather than getting might and life force from chilled foes which my team will already be providing me. The primary focus to my build is a chill necro, but chill does not stack so only one necro should spec this way.

The combinations on build are limitless, but you need to let the leader orchestrate the team for the best overall performance. I am not trying to scare people into not raiding, just explain the motive behind asking people to change things. The content was built to be a challenge so people should not expect to join a pug and just stroll through it.

Tahlie.4259:

Raiding was the main reason I came back to the game. : / And it doesn’t seem like I’ll even set foot in the raid any time soon.

Find a suitable PvE Raid guild and join.

We are not frightened of Raids, most just are not interested in anything that requires that extreme level of play.

A lot of the rest are being realistic, they aren’t good enough. I have multiple joint arthritis and fibromyalgia, every week my guild puts at least one or two group into raids. Often I am pulled in because I am available, I am in no way a ‘mouse/keyboard jockey’. So far they have never got past Gorseval.

Noone is afraid of raiding. People just don’t really care for them. I don’t have the time to care for it. I rather spend my time making gold. That is the TRUE end game.

I’m actually rather fond of raiding, even though I’ve never done it anf probably never will. Why? Because the hardcores have moved to their own private corner of the world, out of my way. I just wish they had a lobby so I wouldn’t have to put up with their antics in map-chat.

Fractals has become downright fun now that they’re all in raids.

I quit raiding when I left WOW, simply because its not fun.
Main reason is you cant take breaks, and most raids seem to take hours.
Sitting at a computer for hours on end mashing buttons is not fun.
I far prefer jumping puzzles than raids, because you can stop at any time you like and do something else if the puzzle is stumping you.

Agree with a lot of people in this thread. Not afraid of raids – would actually probably like the challenge if I had 9 other friends I could rely on who played this game, sadly I only have one because the others quit years ago – but don’t find them fun.

Gave it a shot one day with PUG. Literally spent maybe 15 minutes attempting Vale Guardian and 2 hours looking for more party members, because every time we wiped, instead of learning from it, people would quit.

So yeah, it’s not fun wasting so much time standing around waiting for people. Liked dungeons because 5 man team was easy to put together, very casual. I don’t mind difficulty (I enjoy the harder fractals, got up to 84 before I had to quit because no one does them other than Swamp and I couldn’t find a group), but gameplay difficulty – I do mind the artificial difficulty of putting together the “right” group of people (realize I could get a guild, but that has its own difficulties I don’t want to deal with, like committing to be on at certain times or “having” to participate in guild missions or other such nonsense I don’t care about just to kill a raid boss).

Is this US or smth? In EU you can get into groups as early as monday morning and clear it before noon. Thing is you are pretty late to the party so you might want to look for a guild willing to teach.

As for people suggesting it takes hours on end… most raiding guilds clear both wings on Monday already.

I don’t raid and probably never will for many of the negative reasons already displayed in this thread. My friends and I LFG a dungeon some time back and the few that joined rage-quit on us because we didn’t perform the way that they wanted. That really soured me on the community to the point that I don’t LFG any more either. Sure, it was only one time and I believe that there are good players out there, but the manner in which we were insulted really discouraged me from trying it again. I am one of the “older” players and very casual; I have better things to do with my time than to deal with the attitude that was on display then.

But that’s me and my experience. Raids don’t bother me since I won’t do them anyway. That concept is one of the things that first attracted me to GW2 — the fact that there wasn’t one, particular way to play the game and that there was content available depending upon the style of preference. I hate jumping puzzles, but GW2 is set up in such a way that I don’t have to do them. Same with dungeons. Same with raids.

Not afraid of raids. I simply have no interest in them. They’re not fun, and the rewards behind them (some of which apparently don’t even exist still) don’t feel worth the trouble to me. Thankfully though, ArenaNet had enough sense to not gate anything really important behind them.

yep, those “really challenging” areas with pre-set teams breed players that forget this is just a game, and they play as if they were the last defense line for saving the earth. Those players really do ruin the game.

I do lfg, but just for meta events, I only started doing dungeons lately because they seem to be easy enough to do solo. It’s not that i want to play solo, I just don’t want to play on the same team with kitten or stalin or pol pot ( i was testing the kitten filter with pol pot- anet why u no kitten stalin or pol pot, playing favorites are we ?? )

I’m really surprised that anet metrics doesn’t show this, either that or they like breeding those kind of players because they constantly create those “must have 5 or more players to play” games.

If gw2 went all raid and 5 – 10 man preset groups, that would be my last straw, and i would without a doubt quit.

i know i can be somewhat poignant, but admittedly i do that on purpose to emphasize what i believe is wrong,

in all fairness, i will suggest a solution as well.

Just make a raid area with a regular open portal, so people can join up on the fly, – this will make it roamer friendly. just give us a few places to hide till more join in lol.

Put up a skull and crossbones “Do Not Enter” or “Enter at your Own Risk” “No Whining Zone” “You’ve been Warned!!” sign in front of it, so no one comes crying to the forums how insanely hard it is, then i can give them ideas on how to solo it as well.

It’s better than getting judged by some armchair warrior that wants control these ‘pro’ areas of the game.

and to the elitists i say,
Its a game, if it’s so important that you need a specific build, make a guild and leave the rest of the normal players out of your obsessive judgements in lfg, you are blatantly annoying. Nothing more kitten than your fear of dying, it ruins the game for the rest of us that aren’t as afraid of a game. geez – who knows maybe raiding should be a guild feature to keep these virtual dictators guilded to themselves and banished from public view.

disclaimer – im a gray knight, my blade cuts both ways. My concern is for everyone’s best interest.

Ricky.4706:

i know i can be somewhat poignant, but admittedly i do that on purpose to emphasize what i believe is wrong,

in all fairness, i will suggest a solution as well.

Just make a raid area with a regular open portal, so people can join up on the fly, – this will make it roamer friendly. just give us a few places to hide till more join in lol.

Put up a skull and crossbones “Do Not Enter” or “Enter at your Own Risk” “No Whining Zone” “You’ve been Warned!!” sign in front of it, so no one comes crying to the forums how insanely hard it is, then i can give them ideas on how to solo it as well.

It’s better than getting judged by some armchair warrior that wants control these ‘pro’ areas of the game.

and to the elitists i say,
Its a game, if it’s so important that you need a specific build, make a guild and leave the rest of the normal players out of your obsessive judgements in lfg, you are blatantly annoying. Nothing more kitten than your fear of dying, it ruins the game for the rest of us that aren’t as afraid of a game. geez – who knows maybe raiding should be a guild feature to keep these virtual dictators guilded to themselves and banished from public view.

disclaimer – im a gray knight, my blade cuts both ways. My concern is for everyone’s best interest.

I raid with my guild and sometimes in pug lfg to practice some new classes or because i’m bored. I’m one of your so called “elitist”. Let me tell you that if you want to raid without a minimum of requirement, and just play as you want, you will fail. That’s all. People, what à surprise, don’t want to fail constantly. Hence requirement in lfg. If you’re not happy with that, make an lfg “all welcome” for a raid. Just tell us after how it want :p

yeah, but sometimes I don’t care. The fun for me is in getting there, if it gets too hard …I’ll pause. I like to think more of practice and progression than having to achieve it first time. I guess that’s what makes me more casual.

Now….as an elitist, you might consider giving lessons to people like me that would probably want to try doing raids in the nude with just ascended weapons.
I’d have more fun trying to get as far as I can in a raid area in the nude, than worrying about finishing this mission. leave the fun to the casuals, and the achievements to the guild.

fun never gets boring, achieving the same thing over and over does. :p

consider how 325k casuals liked this video, and 7k elitists gave it a thumbs down.
https://youtu.be/LkCNJRfSZBU

I think there is a different answer for why the OP can’t get a group. The real answer is that raids are not just not that popular. Those who do want to do them, have a group already.

I don’t play any content that I can’t be actively playing within 30 seconds of logging in.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I don’t play any content that I can’t be actively playing within 30 seconds of logging in.

Ditto! We’re not afraid of some rinky-dink hp sponge with cheap mechanics, we just don’t have the PATIENCE for it.

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

A lot of comments here seem to be based on heresay or speculation. I started raiding last week; it definitely needs effort, but the whole elitism stance is fairly baseless and not exclusive to raids. Dungeons and fractal players screamed zerk only for the longest time too. I’ve generally had really good pug experiences raiding. Team setup requires patience, but its not impossible. Set up your own team and you can specify the experience level. Ive also set up training runs before where experienced players joined and offered to teach.

I’d hardly say “most people” dont care about raiding, most of my guild raids, and it didnt come together when raids were introduced, we generally had people interested in it, whether it was inter guild raiding or pugging.

When I want to make a dungeon group,. I put up an ad, dungeon path casaul, fun run and I get people pretty kitten ed fast.

I’ve never not beaten a dungeon with any group I’ve gotten that way.

Try that with a raid sometimes.

Um, good for you? Not sure why you are replying to me though, i know raids need specific builds, and i dont mind that.

Ricky.4706:

Now….as an elitist, you might consider giving lessons to people like me that would probably want to try doing raids in the nude with just ascended weapons.
I’d have more fun trying to get as far as I can in a raid area in the nude, than worrying about finishing this mission. leave the fun to the casuals, and the achievements to the guild.

consider how 325k casuals liked this video, and 7k elitists gave it a thumbs down.
https://youtu.be/LkCNJRfSZBU

Fyi, each week we carry New people or non exp people in raids (the first wing and the 2 first bosses of wing 2). So Yeah we give admise. But you know what ? We ask them to be à little prépared, to have right gear (ascended is not mandatory) and have expensive fond. Yes, it’s à little effort. But after all, we’re doing some efforts too. You don’t want to do some efforts, so…see the différence?

Oh and btw i’m amont the people that liked the vidéo. You might reconsider your thoughts about elitism if you think we can’t have fun playing, really…

elitists should not mingle with casuals, yall fear death, we don’t mind dying a few times to learn. if you can’t have fun with us, well then you shouldn’t be playing with us either.

If a casual wants to get more serious, then they should join a raid guild.

basically yall shouldn’t dominate the lfg with elitist demands when you should just be with guild mates. leave the lfg for casuals. – maybe if anything anet should add a guilds looking for members so a raid guild can do a game search for people that love raiding to spec.

further if only one build is capable of beating a raid, then there is in fact a technical problem with raids because there should be several ways to beat raids so all professions can play. a raid should not be a warriors in zerkers armor only or whatever your “meta” build is…….that’s just broken.

so either your advice of needing a specific build is wrong, or the raids are broken.

Pick one.

Ramoth.9064:

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

A lot of comments here seem to be based on heresay or speculation. I started raiding last week; it definitely needs effort, but the whole elitism stance is fairly baseless and not exclusive to raids. Dungeons and fractal players screamed zerk only for the longest time too. I’ve generally had really good pug experiences raiding. Team setup requires patience, but its not impossible. Set up your own team and you can specify the experience level. Ive also set up training runs before where experienced players joined and offered to teach.

I’d hardly say “most people” dont care about raiding, most of my guild raids, and it didnt come together when raids were introduced, we generally had people interested in it, whether it was inter guild raiding or pugging.

When I want to make a dungeon group,. I put up an ad, dungeon path casaul, fun run and I get people pretty kitten ed fast.

I’ve never not beaten a dungeon with any group I’ve gotten that way.

Try that with a raid sometimes.

Um, good for you? Not sure why you are replying to me though, i know raids need specific builds, and i dont mind that.

I’m replying to you because what I’m saying gainsays what’s your say. You’re claiming that people are just talking about elitism, but you know, it’s more than just elitism. It’s about having to have X build, X profession and until now, that’s really gone against what Guild Wars 2 has been about.

Could I run any path of Arah with 5 necros. I could. And not even five necros specced to death either.

This content CREATES that elitisim. People are calling it elitism, but it’s really not. It’s a requirement born of necessity that says you must play this way to win.

That’s a problem. It’s also why I replied to your post.

omg, am I actually agreeing with Vayne!?? -cough cough- wow! the struggle is real! lol

- ps – i call it elitism because they basically reject anyone that doesn’t play to their spec, the rejection is elitism. you are on point with your observation though. Elitism has it’s place too, that’s what tournaments are built on. A raid should be an adventure, not a tournament.

- Not being able to play my character as I want.
- Not being able to equip my character with the gear/runes/sigils I prefer.
- Following guides, instead of trying out or exploring the area.
- Mechanics adjusted to a special group-setup.
- AP/mastery-rank/mastery-insights/gear-checks
- Stupid and sometimes very offensive LFG messages
- No scaling about the group-size. You need the exact ammount of people. Can do fractals/dungeons with 1-5 people, just need time and patience.
- arrogant elitists with no patience at all (not the majority, but enough to ruin the day)
- Downgrade of dungeons thanks to Raids.
… most other things have been listed already.

I hope this thread wont stop growing.

I don’t fear raiding i just have no interest in it same way that i have no interest in doing dungeons or fractals i just have gotten bored of people and their nonsense in mmo’s when it comes to organized group stuff.

The idea is always fun but then people suck all the fun out of the game with either high standard requirements or toxic behavior.

For some reason over the couple of years people have become really impatient about everything that is going on nobody has time to teach less skilled people to get better anymore so they just kick him/her

I don’t fear raiding, I don’t fear any content in this game, but just because im in a guild that don’t really want to push hardcore into raids, that leaves me with only having to do it with pugs, and then you come up again the you need to ping your 500 LI’s or kick, you need to have 15k AP or kick, OMG I died once, we have to blame the other person, lets kick them,

I know how to play my class, and could gear out any class to do them, its just not worth the time to try please a few ppl who think they are elite because they read metabattle.

I’ve been listing myself in LFG for a week and a half or so, I’ve been asking around in chat, and so on. But, there’s just no one pugging a raid, or filling a spot, or any of that. And no guilds are recruiting that actually go into the raid.

So, what exactly is the issue? Is the raid in GW2 just one of the hardest in the genre or something, or are people just being silly?

I’m not “afraid” of raiding, it’s just, I’ve spent about six hours in total raiding without a single boss clear, and while to WoW raiders that’s “just the warm up,” I’m a GW2 player and have better tastes than that. If I’m going to play a game for three+ hours, I’d better have accomplished a hell of a lot more than staring at a single boss and never getting more than half his life down.

I don’t think the majority of GW2 players are afraid of raids, they’re just too good for raids.

Tahlie.4259:

So, I played GW2 when it first came out, and had a lot of fun with it — at first. Fractals rolled around, and they were fun, but you can only do the same thing so many times before it gets boring. So, I quit at about the beginning of Living Story season 1.

Flash forward a few years, and here I started playing again ~3 weeks ago. When I heard about new fractals, a raid, and all kinds of challenging content, I just had to come back! So, now I have an 80 Engineer and Elementalist (both fully geared out), I’ve been raiding in MMOs for upwards of 12 years, and all that — yet, to date, I’ve not even set foot inside the raid.

I’ve been listing myself in LFG for a week and a half or so, I’ve been asking around in chat, and so on. But, there’s just no one pugging a raid, or filling a spot, or any of that. And no guilds are recruiting that actually go into the raid.

So, what exactly is the issue? Is the raid in GW2 just one of the hardest in the genre or something, or are people just being silly?

Raiding was the main reason I came back to the game. : / And it doesn’t seem like I’ll even set foot in the raid any time soon.

I agree with you regarding Fractals. I have made at least 500 of them when they still came along in troops of 4, and can say that I am sick and tired of doing them again at the moment.
Still, I find them vastly superior to raids.
Why?
-Contrary to raids, you can drop out of even a high level fractal at any time without disppointing people or entirelly killing it because a suitable replacement is quickly available over lfg.
-I am pretty sure that if Dolphins and Ravens had fingers, they could do a lvl 1 fractal and nobody would even notice that this toon is not piloted by a human. I would even try one with a Seal or a Cat. There is no such option for raids. Either you cut it, or you don´t.
-I don´t like to be hammered into shape. If i want that, I ask my boss for his opinion about this and that.
-I don´t like quitters, and don´t like to quit myself. I would just waste the time of the other 9 people by staying on board despite totally hating it.
-I don´t like to get kicked out of groups because I don´t cut it and nobody has the balls to even tell me why I was kicked.
-I already have a job.
-If I want to wait for other people I prefer to ride the bus instead of playing a game.

For many reasons, like those:
Elitism spirit; difficulty to have a concentrated 10 player group for enough time, poor rewards (unless you have a speed clear team able to do the bosses quickly every day).
failure on a boss, and wastes of time are sources of frustration and player most likely leave after 2-3 tries…
Raids are often not an enjoyable eperience for player that do not have a full prepared guild dedicatd to that.

But I think the main reason why I dont want to raid anymore, is that the raid have been clearly scaled for ascended gear (otherwise its way more difficult to pass the enrage timer with an average team).
The meta is too restrictive, some classes are just persona non grata in raids, or far less efficient than others, the builds/weapons are limited, and since maximum amount of stats need a lot of dedication to be changed (mainly because of costly runes/sigils that dont have fair recipes or extraction methods…unless gemmstore’s, that gold conversion dont make cost efficient; P2W, we are almost in ^^)
Most groups check gears, kicks if not meta, and today, even weapons and full trinkets ascended stuff is not sufficient, we have to craft armor and farm loads of silk, leather etc…
And as a student, I also dont have the time to grind another time the same contents for poor rewards, during months, just for an ascended viperine like stuff…

My time is worth more than that sorry Anet, there are plenty of other games that I would like to play instead of grinding gear.

I miss gw1, where preperaing an UW was mostly after doing the storyline, capture an elite, and buy the skills missing for a few platinums, adjust a few worthless runes (exception of 50HP) for the skill points in hero panel, then organize your group…I thinks its time to come back to it. Straight difficulty with almsot no grind “requirement”…

You know, it’s funny, on the raid and dungeon forum we’ve been discussing how and why the game could have an “easy mode” raid that would solve most of these issues, and yet any time I raise any of the concerns that you guys have almost all raised, the raid-heavy players over there act like vampires in the presence of sunlight.

And not the sparkly Twilight kind.

When i read the majority of the posts, i wonder if you guys understand what anet said with “raid won’t be for everyone”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

read it pls everyone. raid are maybe not for you that’s all (people “hating” the meta, refusing the adapt, not wanting to put some effort (lol 6h in first boss that’s nothing, i’ve spent around 15h on it…)).
Pls guys, just accept that for once in gw2, there is something that, maybe, is not for you. And again, that’s not a problem. i hate wvw and pvp, so i just dont play it.

And if you want to try raid, lfg is not the good tool, join a guild. We teach some people each week in mine. All we ask is proper gear, build and food (and all class are welcome btw, people that are saying the contrary just don’t know the raids). And yes, we need proper gear, food and build, because without dps, we cannot pass the wings (and btw, wing 2 is a lot less a dps check than the first one). You have to understand that raid IS (for now) the utlimate group content in gw2. So your own build, which probably works fine in open world pve, is maybe not attapted for the raids (where synergy between raid members is mandatory).

Tahlie.4259:

I’ve been listing myself in LFG for a week and a half or so, I’ve been asking around in chat, and so on. But, there’s just no one pugging a raid, or filling a spot, or any of that. And no guilds are recruiting that actually go into the raid.

So, what exactly is the issue? Is the raid in GW2 just one of the hardest in the genre or something, or are people just being silly?

Raiding was the main reason I came back to the game. : / And it doesn’t seem like I’ll even set foot in the raid any time soon.

For me, is a very simple question to answer:

I don’t do raids. I didn’t even step in one. My clan started to do them with HoT (despite being very WvW oriented) and I always refuse any invitation to do raids. Why? Simple: they are worthless.

I only do 2 things in the game: playing competitive matches against other players (which means PvP, since currently WvW is mostly dead) and gathering gold to purchase cosmetics (crafting legendaries or a few ascended pieces for my most played toons). I no longer do dungeons due they are subpar in terms of time/resource rewards and never was a fan of fractals (which are mostly worthless, also).

I think that only player vs player delivers the thrill and emotion; Raids can be hard but as with dungeons, once you get the gear and basic mechanics they became trivial. And the only trivial things I do (gathering minerals and wood) I do due they provide a BIG time/gold rewards. Raids are crap in terms of time/gold rewards and they exits solely to be gold sinks, so are pretty much in the opposite spectrum of what I want.

Since WvW is worthless in terms of rewards I leave it and replaced it by PvP: you don’t earn much gold, but at least you have some things to get and the fights are usually balanced instead of boring blob vs blob fights or PvDooring. Raids don’t fill with the GW2 premises and are a korean resource grinders inm which I have no interest. If I want to waste my gold I do prefer to burn it in legendaries or some tricky armors instead of in gear to play PvE against the A.I. of the game.

Hypairion.9210:

When i read the majority of the posts, i wonder if you guys understand what anet said with “raid won’t be for everyone”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

read it pls everyone. raid are maybe not for you that’s all (people “hating” the meta, refusing the adapt, not wanting to put some effort (lol 6h in first boss that’s nothing, i’ve spent around 15h on it…)).
Pls guys, just accept that for once in gw2, there is something that, maybe, is not for you. And again, that’s not a problem. i hate wvw and pvp, so i just dont play it.

And if you want to try raid, lfg is not the good tool, join a guild. We teach some people each week in mine. All we ask is proper gear, build and food (and all class are welcome btw, people that are saying the contrary just don’t know the raids). And yes, we need proper gear, food and build, because without dps, we cannot pass the wings (and btw, wing 2 is a lot less a dps check than the first one). You have to understand that raid IS (for now) the utlimate group content in gw2. So your own build, which probably works fine in open world pve, is maybe not attapted for the raids (where synergy between raid members is mandatory).

And if I read your post, I think you do not understand that this is not what the OP asked for.
The Thread Topic is:
“Why are people so afraid of raids?”
not
“Raids are not for everyone, so why do people complain about that on the internet?”
The OP asked for reasons, and people gave them their personal reasons. That you don´t see it that way is understandable, but also just a personal opinion.

I think that the discussion “casual” vs. “hardcode” does not do the population reality of this game (or any other game) justice. It divides the player base into those who can and therefore do and those who cannot.

That’s not how it is. There is also those who can, but don’t care for that particular type of content. Or those who can but are not willing to accept the “environmental” consequences like waiting for a complete group, toxicity, requirement to join a guild etc. Or those who can but prefer “true” competitive gameplay. Or those that can but are not willing to follow one single min/max scheme. Or… Or… It is not true that those who don’t do raids are exclusively those who are not able to do them considering their abilities.

I think this group of players is a large group. Maybe it is time to step away from the current black/white view, although it is obviously comfortable for some to simplify in that way.

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

A lot of comments here seem to be based on heresay or speculation. I started raiding last week; it definitely needs effort, but the whole elitism stance is fairly baseless and not exclusive to raids. Dungeons and fractal players screamed zerk only for the longest time too. I’ve generally had really good pug experiences raiding. Team setup requires patience, but its not impossible. Set up your own team and you can specify the experience level. Ive also set up training runs before where experienced players joined and offered to teach.

I’d hardly say “most people” dont care about raiding, most of my guild raids, and it didnt come together when raids were introduced, we generally had people interested in it, whether it was inter guild raiding or pugging.

When I want to make a dungeon group,. I put up an ad, dungeon path casaul, fun run and I get people pretty kitten ed fast.

I’ve never not beaten a dungeon with any group I’ve gotten that way.

Try that with a raid sometimes.

Um, good for you? Not sure why you are replying to me though, i know raids need specific builds, and i dont mind that.

I’m replying to you because what I’m saying gainsays what’s your say. You’re claiming that people are just talking about elitism, but you know, it’s more than just elitism. It’s about having to have X build, X profession and until now, that’s really gone against what Guild Wars 2 has been about.

Could I run any path of Arah with 5 necros. I could. And not even five necros specced to death either.

This content CREATES that elitisim. People are calling it elitism, but it’s really not. It’s a requirement born of necessity that says you must play this way to win.

That’s a problem. It’s also why I replied to your post.

Applaud the fact you are clarifying the falsity of elitism claims however, the whole play this way, you must, schtick is only ever true until proven false. You’d think having 10 man for matthias is a must, but its proven wrong. Using updrafts for gors? Wrong. Green circle team for VG? Wrong. Ascended gear for the whole of sv? Wrong. Besides actually asking for players to play at their absolute best, which i dont think is unreasonable, this games raids have been extremely lenient as far as choice goes. Even the enrage timer is a soft enrage.

Yeah, it might be stretching the principle of play as you like a bit but that ship sailed ages ago. Its not like you can tell them to take the puzzle elements out of fractals either just because puzzle things are your choice of gameplay.

Tahlie.4259:

So, what exactly is the issue? Is the raid in GW2 just one of the hardest in the genre or something, or are people just being silly?

Raiding was the main reason I came back to the game. : / And it doesn’t seem like I’ll even set foot in the raid any time soon.

I can’t be bothered to raid. If my guild decides to try, then maybe, but I have no desire to “learn” with a PUG.

And frankly, the time commitment is something else I can’t be bothered with – especially for the lack of anything remotely resembling a reward in which I am interested. What do you get?

• A chance (that stupid RNG again) at an ascended item.
• Miniatures (whoopee)
• skins (Oooo. I’m so pretty)
• guild decorations (The Malibu Barbie hot tub! Awesome!)

Really? Not worth my time nor my effort.

Torolan.5816:

Hypairion.9210:

When i read the majority of the posts, i wonder if you guys understand what anet said with “raid won’t be for everyone”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

read it pls everyone. raid are maybe not for you that’s all (people “hating” the meta, refusing the adapt, not wanting to put some effort (lol 6h in first boss that’s nothing, i’ve spent around 15h on it…)).
Pls guys, just accept that for once in gw2, there is something that, maybe, is not for you. And again, that’s not a problem. i hate wvw and pvp, so i just dont play it.

And if you want to try raid, lfg is not the good tool, join a guild. We teach some people each week in mine. All we ask is proper gear, build and food (and all class are welcome btw, people that are saying the contrary just don’t know the raids). And yes, we need proper gear, food and build, because without dps, we cannot pass the wings (and btw, wing 2 is a lot less a dps check than the first one). You have to understand that raid IS (for now) the utlimate group content in gw2. So your own build, which probably works fine in open world pve, is maybe not attapted for the raids (where synergy between raid members is mandatory).

And if I read your post, I think you do not understand that this is not what the OP asked for.
The Thread Topic is:
“Why are people so afraid of raids?”
not
“Raids are not for everyone, so why do people complain about that on the internet?”
The OP asked for reasons, and people gave them their personal reasons. That you don´t see it that way is understandable, but also just a personal opinion.

What i read is: i’m affraid because i don’t want to be bullied by evil elitists. I don’t want to change armor or build, etc etc. Plus the “i don’t want to wipe hours by hours”
But all of this was implied by Anet before HOT. It’s a challenging content after all. So, it’s made to challenge people, to force them (if they want to raid) out of their confort zone.

Hypairion.9210:

Torolan.5816:

Hypairion.9210:

When i read the majority of the posts, i wonder if you guys understand what anet said with “raid won’t be for everyone”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

read it pls everyone. raid are maybe not for you that’s all (people “hating” the meta, refusing the adapt, not wanting to put some effort (lol 6h in first boss that’s nothing, i’ve spent around 15h on it…)).
Pls guys, just accept that for once in gw2, there is something that, maybe, is not for you. And again, that’s not a problem. i hate wvw and pvp, so i just dont play it.

And if you want to try raid, lfg is not the good tool, join a guild. We teach some people each week in mine. All we ask is proper gear, build and food (and all class are welcome btw, people that are saying the contrary just don’t know the raids). And yes, we need proper gear, food and build, because without dps, we cannot pass the wings (and btw, wing 2 is a lot less a dps check than the first one). You have to understand that raid IS (for now) the utlimate group content in gw2. So your own build, which probably works fine in open world pve, is maybe not attapted for the raids (where synergy between raid members is mandatory).

And if I read your post, I think you do not understand that this is not what the OP asked for.
The Thread Topic is:
“Why are people so afraid of raids?”
not
“Raids are not for everyone, so why do people complain about that on the internet?”
The OP asked for reasons, and people gave them their personal reasons. That you don´t see it that way is understandable, but also just a personal opinion.

What i read is: i’m affraid because i don’t want to be bullied by evil elitists. I don’t want to change armor or build, etc etc. Plus the “i don’t want to wipe hours by hours”
But all of this was implied by Anet before HOT. It’s a challenging content after all. So, it’s made to challenge people, to force them (if they want to raid) out of their confort zone.

If you ask me, you can indeed keep your raid and all the shenanigans that may or may not happen to you, me or anyone with it all for yourself.

The things you wrote are all true in a certain range, but how does that answer the question of the OP, or reasonably question the validity of the points people made? Calling someone basically a wimp will not deter the people from staying clear of raids either, I guess quite the contrary will happen. And this is something raiders should be the least interested in.

Blablabla “minority” who cares? There are people who enjoy it.

“out of confort zone”….thats at this moment a game turns into a work…
I guess not everyone want to relax, someones seems to spend so much time in the game (unemployment helps maybe) to convince themselves that its normal to work that much in a game to achiv or do anything. Congralutations, seems that most MMO’s have already been designed for them.
people seems to forget that grind is just an artificial mean to keep players in the game, for more times they would have normally stayed without it. long term goals that doesnt match the amount of content really available.
Its normal to grindto get something in reality (unless technology progresses reduce the pain), not in a virtual universe.
I absolutly want to have a good gear, to have challenges, but I’m absolutly not willing to spend another undecent amount of time int the same contents everyday, with RNG as only judge, just for changing a few stats on the gear.
I’m not complaining about difficulty of the raid itself but the unecessary segregating preprequirements that split players along their weekly playtime, those who have the time to accomplish virtual chores, whiles he others are doing something constructive IRL.
Next steps, I f you are so glad that there exist content that most player wont do, I propose to make specific content, with nice rewards, where only layers with less that 8 hours spent in the game weekly could acess (calculated on averages on the whole total of time played, so the count would not dropp quickly), or achieved any ascended crafting…It would be extremly funny to see the people actually complaining that “casual” shouldnt care about raids and move on, then feel cheated as well x)

I would just like to complete each raid wing once, just for storyline, then I will move on…but building whole new expensive gears just for completing it, build a whole guild dedicated to it, its not worth the time required for the moment, unless anet release a story mode, wich is equivalent with scenario dungeons compared with exploration mode in difficulty. If I dont want to adapt to meta, its mainly because I have invested too much time for a single full ascended gear, and change it would cost too much…Not counting the idea of building a whole new gear for a nother class.
We are afraid of grind and players mentality, not of challenging contents I suppose…

Well, if some player still feels the need of feeling in the upper tier for being able to raid, and anet dot want to make an acessible version (designed 5 player team for exemple, with no timer) I leave to their own vainglorious feelings, if its the only way to feel achivement if being unique over others.
Thats all I had to say, I return to my movie now…Tequatl could become a dried dragon skeleton, no way I would do it again for a 30 ’th time without a decent chance of getting a small red chest.

the very title of this thread is actually elitist – “why are people so afraid of raiding”
an appropriate elitist answer ( i am an elitist debater ) would be “How stupid are you ?”

further, since this area of content may “not be for you” – it should be located somewhere private, that’s also not for me, all I’m getting from most of these posts is that anet in fact wants to breed elitists. the fact that this issue should be common sense – but is not recognized, can only mean to me that anet is full of elitists that think it’s ok to make this kind of game play open to anyone to be rejected.

it really should be a private guild thing, if for nothing else but to keep elitism out of lfg.

If you hate mmos, you will love raids…..does not rhyme.

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

Vayne.8563:

Ramoth.9064:

A lot of comments here seem to be based on heresay or speculation. I started raiding last week; it definitely needs effort, but the whole elitism stance is fairly baseless and not exclusive to raids. Dungeons and fractal players screamed zerk only for the longest time too. I’ve generally had really good pug experiences raiding. Team setup requires patience, but its not impossible. Set up your own team and you can specify the experience level. Ive also set up training runs before where experienced players joined and offered to teach.

I’d hardly say “most people” dont care about raiding, most of my guild raids, and it didnt come together when raids were introduced, we generally had people interested in it, whether it was inter guild raiding or pugging.

When I want to make a dungeon group,. I put up an ad, dungeon path casaul, fun run and I get people pretty kitten ed fast.

I’ve never not beaten a dungeon with any group I’ve gotten that way.

Try that with a raid sometimes.

Um, good for you? Not sure why you are replying to me though, i know raids need specific builds, and i dont mind that.

I’m replying to you because what I’m saying gainsays what’s your say. You’re claiming that people are just talking about elitism, but you know, it’s more than just elitism. It’s about having to have X build, X profession and until now, that’s really gone against what Guild Wars 2 has been about.

Could I run any path of Arah with 5 necros. I could. And not even five necros specced to death either.

This content CREATES that elitisim. People are calling it elitism, but it’s really not. It’s a requirement born of necessity that says you must play this way to win.

That’s a problem. It’s also why I replied to your post.

This content was created by this design on the basis that elitism was the motivation for suggesting for the content to be created.

It’s somewhat a failure by design in respect to raids themselves, but mostly the result of poor wealth distribution mechanics and a bad split between formats, as well as ANet catering towards a certain audience in an unjust way. We’re all aware that the game is meant (in theory) to have something for everyone.

The players interested in clearing hard content should do so for the sake of clearing hard content. They should be rewarded proportionally for their time, maybe slightly better, but not consistent ascended gear and further at the expense of nerfed dungeon rewards and nerfed rewards from other methods of play.

One of my highest-rated posts of all time on these boards was to an elitist claiming that the game was too easy and the fights posed no challenge, demanding harder content and as a means to filter out and demoralize bad players. My response was simply for him to remove all of his armor and equip a level 0 white weapon and enter AC solo. He asked why he would waste his time. Obviously he wasn’t genuinely interested in the hard content.

The game should be about enjoyment regardless of how one achieves that within the confines of the Terms of Use. If raids didn’t provide the best rewards, I doubt people would do them except for the players who genuinely prefer the raid environment, which is great. And if that’s the case, it has to do with an uneven means of wealth acquisition game-wide. That’s what needs fixing. If it were all split relatively evenly, we likely wouldn’t be having this discussion, because those intimidated by the prospect or frustrated over forced comps or simply people who dislike PvE wouldn’t honestly care.

I am very afraid of wasting my time on things that are NOT FUN.

Ageless forum bug