Guild Wars 2

I don’t mind raids being in a game; the more types of play and players, the better.

Myself, it isn’t fear. I just don’t enjoy them a whole lot. WoW cured me of raids: the grind & waiting around far out weigh the rewards and the achievement boost.

I still wonder why devs haven’t tried harder to mix things up in instances- more randomization, less scripted nonsense. The epitome of that was WOW boss timer mods that told you when to hop. It’s like a giant game of simon-says, which was a blast in 1st grade. Now, not so much.

With the script approach the huge amount of dev effort spent creating the instance has to last a while, which means mechanics that slow progression, which means lots of wipes, waiting for respawn and the like. If they just mixed things up, they could get a lot more out of the same content and keep the players happier. Sure, I might have to react to the luck of a really bad draw of random mobs but it sure would make it more interesting.

In my experience of much older mmorpgs to today is that its either an attitude of one extreme or another you have the to casual who barely want to work and learn their class and you have the ones who make a huge deal out of a mistake and take the game to seriously.

Raiding should be challenging, and require effort on everyone, however it should not be over stressful either.

Only reason why I care less about raiding nowadays is the schedule commitments.

Having 2-3 days a week where you might have to tell your friends/family, “Sorry, I’ve got raid at that time” when they want to go out or have dinner is just pretty crappy.

Its the same story as always – the logistics of preparing for the raid ARE NOT FUN so the Devs over incentivize the raid to try to get people to do it anyway. Usually its irrationally steep gear advantage… here it’s unique skins and stat swapping convenience on your armor slots. The Devs put those things in and boom, now you’re getting raid groups composed of folks chasing the shiny instead of reveling in the gameplay… a behavior more commonly known as “work”.

I enjoy raiding. I’ve been a raid “caller” (the guy on the voice channel that keeps all the pieces moving in sync) for 4 different large MMOs. I’ve downed raid boss in three more MMOs. I absolutely love seeing when a team of people can work together in a complex and reactive dance. I love researching, learning, or developing boss strategies. I’ve done crazy stuff getting ready for ‘raid night’ like spending days learning phrases in Tolkien’s black speech because there’s a raid boss that calls out its moves in the language of Mordor. The LotRO devs put in that level of effort for their part and I wanted every advantage for my team. I’ve also done less crazy but still necessary activities like stocking up rare and time consuming to acquire consumables so I can hand them out to people that didn’t do their homework.

I’d rather gargle with broken glass than be the guy who has to deal with the scheduling beforehand. Usually the best I can do to help the poor saps that take that job on is have fully geared and prepped character for every role and offer to change to whatever is needed, depending on who flaked out/no-showed this week.

Raids are great. Its the drama before hand (and after) that people who’ve been there/done that frequently never want to do again.

Not afraid of raiding, i just find it incredibly boring.

It’s exclusive to certain players based on their prefered playstyle, defeating the original point of “play how you like” and “bring the player, not the class”. It’s far to time consuming and it feels like an obligation.

As far as the quality of raiding goes it reminds me a lot of WoW in its Burning Crusade era. Bring the right class, everyone in their specific role, learn the gimmick, and bash your head untill you succeed. Fight’s are highly repetitive.

because I can only join pick up group, and people in PUG treat each other like sh_t.

After playing WoW for a long time with their raids I’ve learned that it tends to attract the worst attitudes/people. I also still remember how said kind of people treated Rangers at the start of Gw2 with dungeons/groups and I really didn’t feel like dealing with that bs again. Not to mention how the pugging tends to be with raids in this game.
I also don’t care much for raids nor do I have the time to commit to them anyways so y’know. Did some testing for it during Beta and tried it at release, it just wasn’t something I was interested in for this game.

Zalani.9827:

I also still remember how said kind of people treated Rangers at the start of Gw2 with dungeons/groups

I understand that some people can be jerk, but it wouldn’t happen if Anet didn’t do a bad job at balancing their profession. Ranger and Necro used to be a joke in PvE and now they are both part of most raid party.

Thaddeus.4891:

Zalani.9827:

I also still remember how said kind of people treated Rangers at the start of Gw2 with dungeons/groups

I understand that some people can be jerk, but it wouldn’t happen if Anet didn’t do a bad job at balancing their profession. Ranger and Necro used to be a joke in PvE and now they are both part of most raid party.

Rangers aren’t. Druids are. Those two are based around such dissimilar gameplay that they might as well be different classes completely.
Try to play a Ranger in raid and see how fast you will get kicked.

Astralporing.1957:

Thaddeus.4891:

Zalani.9827:

I also still remember how said kind of people treated Rangers at the start of Gw2 with dungeons/groups

I understand that some people can be jerk, but it wouldn’t happen if Anet didn’t do a bad job at balancing their profession. Ranger and Necro used to be a joke in PvE and now they are both part of most raid party.

Rangers aren’t. Druids are. Those two are based around such dissimilar gameplay that they might as well be different classes completely.
Try to play a Ranger in raid and see how fast you will get kicked.

Thats why you play with open minded guilds there is more to the game then just meta, we have other tools in our classes.

Astralporing.1957:

Try to play a Ranger in raid and see how fast you will get kicked.

You’ll be perfectly fine, especially with the new DPS tester thing to back yourself up.

People really overestimate how much people care what you’re running unless there are issues, especially when it comes to gear…

Good Morning
As you can see by a majority of the responses to your question OP- (and this is my answer, not speaking for anyone else)- The build battle is a huge deterrent for me to even set foot near the raid portal! You can see the arguments and insults flying across the map chat. I personally can gain more fun and loot (again, just my opinion) By doing the metas in AB and some sweet Tequatl
Enjoy the game- I do!

Can you Pug the raids, as in just grab a full party of random people and go do it like you would a dungeon? Otherwise I’m not interested, I want to log in and play, not sit around getting ready to play.

Sounds like raids kind of require you to set up and plan in advance to have any chance of success, happy to be proven wrong though.

I am because of rage monsters that will get their panties in a bunch if I don’t stand on one leg, hands at 10 and 12 while humming the ride of valkyries in D minor.

Terrahero.9358:

Not afraid of raiding, i just find it incredibly boring.

Ditto. The only reason to “fear” raiding is fear of tedium.

I remember the last time I raided.It was in WoW.
There was a moment that day.
Listening to my guildmates,whom I knew were otherwise good people,
going through the transformation.Like a werewolf changes from man to
beast.It’s noteworthy what a few wipes can do to a player in a raid!

As for raids in GW2.
I don’t consider raids to be pugable content.
If they were,they wouldn’t be good raids.
Even if I join a random group,I expect everyone to know their job.
As it is now I don’t know the fights,and as I don’t like to carry other
players,I don’t expect from others to carry me.
So I don’t raid.

The original post is very strangely worded.
Something like “why dont people like raids” would make more sense, and most likley get better responses.
I no longer do raids for similar reasons to Aenaos, and the last raid I did was also in WOW.
The bottom line is that MMOs are to provide entertainment, not tedium and abuse from players whose life would think depends on getting thru the raid in the quickest possible time.

battledrone.8315:

roamzero.9486:

Anet fudged big time with raids. Living Story and the raid content should have been basically the same, with some story culminating with a 5-man easy version of a raid wing so casual players could familiarize themselves with the mechanics. After getting their feet wet players could then ease into the 10-man harder version.

please, dont
this is how DCUO does it, and it feels very cheap

That’s funny i played two days in DCUO then left, it was horrible.

Dante.1508:

battledrone.8315:

roamzero.9486:

Anet fudged big time with raids. Living Story and the raid content should have been basically the same, with some story culminating with a 5-man easy version of a raid wing so casual players could familiarize themselves with the mechanics. After getting their feet wet players could then ease into the 10-man harder version.

please, dont
this is how DCUO does it, and it feels very cheap

That’s funny i played two days in DCUO then left, it was horrible.

I don’t know of this DCUO game, but perhaps they just implemented this idea poorly. When I raided in WoW 5 years ago while I was in college and I wasn’t able to make all the raid times or see all of the raid bosses because either the content was outdated and nobody ran it or it got too difficult to PUG up when the guild couldn’t clear it. Not for the lack of skill, but I haven’t the time to commit to being part of a raid in GW2, especially being employed full-time. I would thoroughly enjoy the ability to personally go through the raids for the story but without the rewards, which would be reserved for the raid proper. I guess I could always watch videos of people clearing it instead, but that’s just not as fun.

3 things-

I don’t have the time nor the golds to craft out new ascended armours and weapons to suit the raiders needs/ requirement. Even then I may not like the role I had assigned to myself.

I also don’t have alot of free time to simply play trial and error of the raids (well ok I have free time just to do the HOT even map and the dailies but NOT all day, there are other game to played or video to watch!) and even then I don’t like wasting time on doing something that has a high failure rate especially when there is no rewards for failure. Example- I was annoyed that a week ago, a LFG party I was in bail out on the slime event in the reactor Fractal cos we died a few times. Several minutes wasted on that!

I’m also kinda a lone wolf per say. When some people have friends and guildies for dungeon and fractal, I resort for PUG (LFG) and I am ok with that. From what it seen, it seen imperative that raiding has to be done with Guildies or friends. I am NOT convince raiding can be done by LFG alone (granted I would loved for them to nerf the hell out of raid to make it any LFG group beat it easily!). (Don’t ask me how I can played the game since launch without a friend and a Guildies that you can become close with.)

Also nuff said about the elitism.

I love raiding because it makes me work with 9 other people. I only pug them. It’s an awesome feeling when a boss dies after multiple tries and everybody on teamspeak just goes “YEAAAH we did it”. For instance, I just finished wing 1 around 15 minutes ago. VG was boring as kitten, because it was a total faceroll, and we killed it in the first pull. However, gorse and sab were much harder for the group and we took many tries. But at the end, everybody was happy, because after a 3 hour run, all 10 people had the Eternal title (yeah we managed to clear wing1 with a random pug with no player deaths, on all 3 bosses).

Many people I group with(dgns/fractals/raids) call me a toxic elitist. The only things I require in group content is minimum exotic gear with runes, and knowledge about the fights we will encounter. For 50% of the people I run into, this is toxic elitism. For me, I think it’s common sense, and also, respect for the other people that are in your group. Nobody should be forced to carry you if they don’t want to.

I understand the fear of raiding. It’s very unpleasant to have 9 people look down at you for being new, or somebody in the raid yelling at you for screwing up. But everybody can make their own raid squad. Advertise [training run]. I’ve seen many today. Nobody will flame if you’re all beginners. If you have the time to learn the mechanics, and to practice them, just go for it. It’s an “effort” that in my opinion, is rewarded well[again, not talking about loot]

All in all, I think everybody who has the time and the patience for it should raid. Not for the loot, not for the “bragging rights”, but for the joyful experience of successfully completing a hard encounter, while learning to work with 9 other people. If you do it for the fun of it, raids can easily become your favorite thing about this game, just as they are for me.

‘Having to learn the mechanics’. Raids in this game remind me of watching lab rats in a maze, where if they get it right they are rewarded (and uses about as much intelligence).

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good, rather than a great ‘raid’ consisting of performing the scripted dance exactly as planned with no room for deviation or improvement.

Baldrick.8967:

‘Having to learn the mechanics’. Raids in this game remind me of watching lab rats in a maze, where if they get it right they are rewarded (and uses about as much intelligence).

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good, rather than a great ‘raid’ consisting of performing the scripted dance exactly as planned with no room for deviation or improvement.

The mechanics are acutally so kittening easy to learn.

The main idea behind raid bosses is:

1. Mechanics
2. Survive
3. DPS

Add to that some RNG (randomly targeted player), different team compositions and you will see that it’s not only about learning a “scripted dance”.

After all even PvP is scripted if you really want to. There are just a bit more variables to it.

Baldrick.8967:

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good

Yeh bring me those 100v100 zergs where you spam aoes and hope they die first, so much more skill required

Raizen.7981:

Baldrick.8967:

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good

Yeh bring me those 100v100 zergs where you spam aoes and hope they die first, so much more skill required

And then a 30-man team with good composition, skill and strategy kills that 100 man zerg, and you realize, that there is in fact a lot of skill involved.

After reading all these comments and constructive criticism about all this, I realize how much harder I must work to take in all the lost and disgruntled players into my open arms. This is why my guild, House Ishida, exists, to actually have a place for players like all of you (and me) that just can’t do the group instanced content because of the hostilities we face when even attempting it as a newcomer.

In my guild I don’t ask for:

• builds
• gear
• Specific classes
• I actually teach the game and expect my members to not treat new and veteran players that don’t understand something like dirt.
• I command respect and expect others to also demand respect and give it.
• I expect everyone to work together for a common goal to improve together in a fluid natural way and friendly drama-free environment.
  *if we fractal or dungeon we will expect members to not know how to do it yet and will treat them accordingly with respect and not do any skipping mobs or stacking, we will do it the the way anet wanted it done. It makes it easier on players to learn instead of just “Do as I say.” “Stand here and shut up!”
• Raids will, naturally, be a new experience for everyone and we WILL FAIL and just get back up and keep trying. I will not berate my members for just trying.

Astralporing.1957:

Raizen.7981:

Baldrick.8967:

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good

Yeh bring me those 100v100 zergs where you spam aoes and hope they die first, so much more skill required

And then a 30-man team with good composition, skill and strategy kills that 100 man zerg, and you realize, that there is in fact a lot of skill involved.

Yeah, and then the leader of the 30-man team reverts back to a regular Saiyan, and attempts to revive Krillin for the 5th time. Meanwhile, you wake up from your bad trip and delete the posts you wrote during your magical journey.

Just no. maybe 70 good players can kill a 100 zerg, but 30 men won’t do it even if those 100 started playing yesterday

I have seen it happen 2 times.

But is very luck dependant: the 30 man zerg hast to be a really good one, with TS and previous planification, and the 100 zerg has to be fully composed of noobs.

I doubt it could happen in regular active servers. Only seen it in rather marginal servers with unbalanced matching.

Seen it quite often in eu t3 actually. Yes, it was usually the guild ts-coordinated group vs mostly pug zerg. No, i don’t count defence events unless the wall/door is already breached, but yes, it usually happens in advantageous terrain/situation (ambush, choke points, etc). Choosing advantageous place to fight is also skill, however.

Generally, if you go zerg vs zerg just throwing aoes at random, hoping to win by more dakka, and your opponent happens to actually know what they’re doing… well, the results aren’t pretty.
(though i agree that since the stability got nerfed big way, more extreme examples of skill vs zerg became much, much rarer)

I’m not afraid of raiding.. But cos I dont have set hours for work I cant join guilds that do them often and with only 1 kill behind me (and many many many tries).. People only want those with 20+ insights n crap.

Thaddeus.4891:

Zalani.9827:

I also still remember how said kind of people treated Rangers at the start of Gw2 with dungeons/groups

I understand that some people can be jerk, but it wouldn’t happen if Anet didn’t do a bad job at balancing their profession. Ranger and Necro used to be a joke in PvE and now they are both part of most raid party.

Look that vid then come back after.

Neox.3497:

Baldrick.8967:

‘Having to learn the mechanics’. Raids in this game remind me of watching lab rats in a maze, where if they get it right they are rewarded (and uses about as much intelligence).

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good, rather than a great ‘raid’ consisting of performing the scripted dance exactly as planned with no room for deviation or improvement.

The mechanics are acutally so kittening easy to learn.

The main idea behind raid bosses is:

1. Mechanics
2. Survive
3. DPS

Add to that some RNG (randomly targeted player), different team compositions and you will see that it’s not only about learning a “scripted dance”.

After all even PvP is scripted if you really want to. There are just a bit more variables to it.

That’s what made me stop raiding.
I would catch on the pattern pretty quick, I would die a bit before getting the counter right,
Then look at 5 other teammate keep dying at the same step or not making any progress.

Pretty much the same that’s happening in fractal tier 4 molten boss currently;
People didn’t learn the mechanic as they were just bursting the boss.
Now they struggle to kill theboss.

Hell is the others in this game, at least for me.

papry.8096:

Look that vid then come back after.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajZCyIAVuMg

And??

papry.8096:

Neox.3497:

Baldrick.8967:

‘Having to learn the mechanics’. Raids in this game remind me of watching lab rats in a maze, where if they get it right they are rewarded (and uses about as much intelligence).

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good, rather than a great ‘raid’ consisting of performing the scripted dance exactly as planned with no room for deviation or improvement.

The mechanics are acutally so kittening easy to learn.

The main idea behind raid bosses is:

1. Mechanics
2. Survive
3. DPS

Add to that some RNG (randomly targeted player), different team compositions and you will see that it’s not only about learning a “scripted dance”.

After all even PvP is scripted if you really want to. There are just a bit more variables to it.

That’s what made me stop raiding.
I would catch on the pattern pretty quick, I would die a bit before getting the counter right,
Then look at 5 other teammate keep dying at the same step or not making any progress.

Pretty much the same that’s happening in fractal tier 4 molten boss currently;
People didn’t learn the mechanic as they were just bursting the boss.
Now they struggle to kill theboss.

Hell is the others in this game, at least for me.

Well you aren’t >elite< enough. Your own fault I guess.

Neox.3497:

Well you aren’t >elite< enough. Your own fault I guess.

True; I’m not a one man army (yet).

It’s the exact same elitist attitude most of the original players loved this game for not having. Then the WoW expansion became a complete failure and the exodus started of people wanting the same crap that some of us quit WoW quickly to avoid.

It’s not just the time commitment, but other people are sharing that time. If you screw up then you’ll bring everyone else down with you and that’s too much pressure. Then there’s the issue of getting rejected just because of your gear (even if it’s reasonable for the role you’re playing) and traitlines even if they haven’t seen your mechanical skill.

True; I’m not a one man army (yet).

Since celestial isn’t forbidden from PvE or WvW why not make a nearly full set of celestial with some ascended Viper’s armor pieces for good measure on a Tempest? That way you get a respectable amount of passive defensive stats (toughness, vitality), active (healing power), condi, and power damage while the viper’s pieces (maybe body armor or leggings plus boots or headgear) and take good runes like Balthazaar runes for burning duration to stack with the expertise and a sigil of transference for the 10% extra healing power, which doesn’t sound like a lot but the longer a fight lasts the more significant a seemingly small boosts becomes. If a fight lasts one minute for example the 10% extra healing power is insignificant whereas a fight that lasts an hour means people’s health will creep up more over a longer period of time assuming good cooldown management. From 100% friends can be knocked down to 30%, you use water overload, they’re up to 80%, they get knocked down to 25%, wash the pain away brings them back up to 82%, they get knocked down to 32%, water overload brings them up to 27%, etc., so it’s creeping back up to max health over a long period of time. That’s with air and fire (especially as it has the burning you’re mainly speccing for) damage in between and perhaps an occasional obsidian flesh to stay alive and magnetic grasp and leap to get in range of a certain mob group without needlessly blowing lightning flash and wait out to aurashare reflect for good measure.

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

Because it’s content. That’s all.
I made my peace with it, too much frustration & time wasted.

For me the issue is not being afraid. I do raids but I have other classes like a DD and Druid Healer fully setup and ready to go. But most groups want experience only, so I don’t play them. Then when they ask if someone has a healer, everyone is silent. I volunteer mine but I tell them, I only healed on VG and then they don’t want to give me a chance to heal on other bosses. So back to my default raid characters again lol.

So imo, if you can’t find someone to fill a role and they’re somewhat experience give them a chance. If they’re bad, they should revert back to their main raid character. People won’t know what they’re capable of if they aren’t allowed to use any non main characters.

reapex.8546:

For me the issue is not being afraid. I do raids but I have other classes like a DD and Druid Healer fully setup and ready to go. But most groups want experience only, so I don’t play them. Then when they ask if someone has a healer, everyone is silent. I volunteer mine but I tell them, I only healed on VG and then they don’t want to give me a chance to heal on other bosses. So back to my default raid characters again lol.

So imo, if you can’t find someone to fill a role and they’re somewhat experience give them a chance. If they’re bad, they should revert back to their main raid character. People won’t know what they’re capable of if they aren’t allowed to use any non main characters.

Are you speaking from a pug perspective?

I think everyone that has a problem with raiding are speaking from a pug respective. Thinks like this don’t happen in most guilds, they will give you a chance to get experience on whatever class you want. Go out and look for a guild that suits you. If you are in a guild that is behaving like this then that’s not the guild for you for raiding, you can represent 5 guilds.

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

There are people that need to feel better than others, but aren’t actually good enough to play pvp with reasonable success. Raids let them sidestep that minor issue… but only as long as other players care. Thus, the main goal of raiders is to advertise raids as the elite content, and that anyone not doing raids is not a pro like they are. Bonus points for making raids as much unfun as possible, to decrease the chances of other people actually wanting to play it.

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

I’m not obsessed, but I like the battles so I’ll do the same boss multiple times in a week to either get shards or help others out. It think it is fun content and it can be short with the right group.

I’m excited for wing 3

Astralporing.1957:

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

There are people that need to feel better than others, but aren’t actually good enough to play pvp with reasonable success. Raids let them sidestep that minor issue… but only as long as other players care. Thus, the main goal of raiders is to advertise raids as the elite content, and that anyone not doing raids is not a pro like they are. Bonus points for making raids as much unfun as possible, to decrease the chances of other people actually wanting to play it.

Lol you are so far from the truth it’s hilarious. So people that raid are bad at pvp is your argument? You do know that a lot of the raiders have the legendary pvp Backpeice which requires legendary and diamond (minimum).

Raiders raid because it’s fun content and more challenging than dungeons or fractals. You also get to interact with 5 other people so getting to know your fellow guild members. The final reason is the rewards.

There has never been a topic here were raiders have come on and said raids are our content. Yet every casual is making posts about how they want it to be their content.

Sird.4536:

Astralporing.1957:

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

There are people that need to feel better than others, but aren’t actually good enough to play pvp with reasonable success. Raids let them sidestep that minor issue… but only as long as other players care. Thus, the main goal of raiders is to advertise raids as the elite content, and that anyone not doing raids is not a pro like they are. Bonus points for making raids as much unfun as possible, to decrease the chances of other people actually wanting to play it.

Lol you are so far from the truth it’s hilarious.

“People play Left 4 Dead because they are bad at CS:GO”.
Seems legit.

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

Not sure if anyone is obsessed with raiding. It is just new high quality content which is pretty rare.

I’m not afraid of raiding, it takes too much time. One person makes a mistake and the entire group suffers for it with time. So I can join an inexperienced team and we all fail together but that is hours and hours of time investment a day to get better. Or I could join an experienced team and run with them but then I am the weak link and I won’t be the cause for wasting other peoples time either. Raids are simply too much of a time sink.

Neox.3497:

Baldrick.8967:

‘Having to learn the mechanics’. Raids in this game remind me of watching lab rats in a maze, where if they get it right they are rewarded (and uses about as much intelligence).

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good, rather than a great ‘raid’ consisting of performing the scripted dance exactly as planned with no room for deviation or improvement.

The mechanics are acutally so kittening easy to learn.

The main idea behind raid bosses is:

1. Mechanics
2. Survive
3. DPS

Add to that some RNG (randomly targeted player), different team compositions and you will see that it’s not only about learning a “scripted dance”.

After all even PvP is scripted if you really want to. There are just a bit more variables to it.

Well im not 80 yet and literally waiting on my expansion, but I question this for raiding, because it hardly ever is that simple its more like crowd control, heals, buffs, dont aoe in certain areas, dont get agro in certain areas, tanking, utility, and dps.

Sird.4536:

Astralporing.1957:

Dante.1508:

Better question in my mind is why are people so obsessed with raiding..

There are people that need to feel better than others, but aren’t actually good enough to play pvp with reasonable success. Raids let them sidestep that minor issue… but only as long as other players care. Thus, the main goal of raiders is to advertise raids as the elite content, and that anyone not doing raids is not a pro like they are. Bonus points for making raids as much unfun as possible, to decrease the chances of other people actually wanting to play it.

Lol you are so far from the truth it’s hilarious. So people that raid are bad at pvp is your argument? You do know that a lot of the raiders have the legendary pvp Backpeice which requires legendary and diamond (minimum).

Raiders raid because it’s fun content and more challenging than dungeons or fractals. You also get to interact with 5 other people so getting to know your fellow guild members. The final reason is the rewards.

There has never been a topic here were raiders have come on and said raids are our content. Yet every casual is making posts about how they want it to be their content.

Many people raid for gear, mats, and just for fun, yes elitism exists in raiding but it exists everywhere anyways, you just need to find a guild that does not have that kind of attitude towards raiding, in fact I recommend you join a guild that is just learning raiding and learn with them, it may be frustrating at first but it will teach you how to raid well. Atleast in my experience in other mmorpgs.

Three reasons:

Elitism, Short on time, It’s not fun.

Sird.4536:

reapex.8546:

For me the issue is not being afraid. I do raids but I have other classes like a DD and Druid Healer fully setup and ready to go. But most groups want experience only, so I don’t play them. Then when they ask if someone has a healer, everyone is silent. I volunteer mine but I tell them, I only healed on VG and then they don’t want to give me a chance to heal on other bosses. So back to my default raid characters again lol.

So imo, if you can’t find someone to fill a role and they’re somewhat experience give them a chance. If they’re bad, they should revert back to their main raid character. People won’t know what they’re capable of if they aren’t allowed to use any non main characters.

Are you speaking from a pug perspective?

I think everyone that has a problem with raiding are speaking from a pug respective. Thinks like this don’t happen in most guilds, they will give you a chance to get experience on whatever class you want. Go out and look for a guild that suits you. If you are in a guild that is behaving like this then that’s not the guild for you for raiding, you can represent 5 guilds.

Pug perspective.

reaganjn.9371:

Three reasons:

Elitism, Short on time, It’s not fun.