Guild Wars 2

I don’t have much MMO experience. I have never done raids before. They seem to be quite fun. Plus it’ll just add more content to the game. It’s something more than a 5 man dungeon. I see people TRULY do not want raids. I feel like they would be more teamwork. Maybe have raids that require different amount of people?

If people truly do not like raids, then just don’t do them? I feel like that’s a simple solution.

I think the general objection is that the top tier of content is fed to those who can get a large group together multiple times a night. Also that raids tend to be the top tier of progression as well and people feel forced to raid to get the best gear.

This is the fear.

I personally don’t feel like it’s that big of a deal, but I can understand why people don’t like them.

Because people assume that raids would be content that NEEDS to be done, but just like everything else in gw2, nothing is mandatory, it’ll give you a small edge sure, but it’s not mandatory.

For example, dungeons? Nah, just buy crafted exotic gear, same stat values.
Fractals? Nah, do dailies, get laurels.

Raids would be something pretty awesome and would work well with ANets upcoming Dungeon group Finder, obviously raids shouldn’t be stupidly large like 30+ players, but something small, say 15-20 players, and the raid dropped gear could have unique armor/weapon skins, crafting recipes, etc.

People will just associate everything similar to wow as a bad thing basically.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

raid dropped gear could have unique armor/weapon skins, crafting recipes, etc.

That’s pretty precisely why I don’t want to see raids in this game, EVER.

I don’t like raiding, main reason for that being that this content cannot be reasonably played with PUGs anymore, at least not in any game I have seen before (heck, it’s hard to find 5 people for a dungeon already!). And no, I don’t want to join a raiding guild, so let’s not go there.

But I DO love crafting. And collecting armour skins. Now guess how much I’d love it if suddenly the best crafting recipes and the nicest armour skins would be out of my reach! I loved it so much that I actually unsubscribed several MMOs just because of that – I don’t want to be a second-rate player anymore just because I don’t raid. And raiders are never happy unless they get the best of everything. Best gear. Best skins. Best materials. Best recipes. Best mounts. Best anything. For the rest of us.. what is there left, exactly?

I love Guild Wars 2 among things because it doesn’t have raids.

Kimyrielle.3826:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

raid dropped gear could have unique armor/weapon skins, crafting recipes, etc.

That’s pretty precisely why I don’t want to see raids in this game, EVER.

What if they don’t have unique drops?

Kimyrielle.3826:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

raid dropped gear could have unique armor/weapon skins, crafting recipes, etc.

That’s pretty precisely why I don’t want to see raids in this game, EVER.

I don’t like raiding, main reason for that being that this content cannot be reasonably played with PUGs anymore, at least not in any game I have seen before (heck, it’s hard to find 5 people for a dungeon already!). And no, I don’t want to join a raiding guild, so let’s not go there.

But I DO love crafting. And collecting armour skins. Now guess how much I’d love it if suddenly the best crafting recipes and the nicest armour skins would be out of my reach! I loved it so much that I actually unsubscribed several MMOs just because of that – I don’t want to be a second-rate player anymore just because I don’t raid. And raiders are never happy unless they get the best of everything. Best gear. Best skins. Best materials. Best recipes. Best mounts. Best anything. For the rest of us.. what is there left, exactly?

I love Guild Wars 2 among things because it doesn’t have raids.

you love doing the same thing over and over and grinding with no progression of a future besides there monthly world event thing? this game needs raids hell it be a good way to introduce cool new skins and ascended gear better then buying crap for laurels for like no difference in fotm.

Vees.7816:

Kimyrielle.3826:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

raid dropped gear could have unique armor/weapon skins, crafting recipes, etc.

That’s pretty precisely why I don’t want to see raids in this game, EVER.

What if they don’t have unique drops?

Hypothetically? I wouldn’t mind it, then. But I have never seen any MMO that did it that way. First thing raiders would do after “for-fun raids” would be introduced is coming to this forum and say “Hey ANet, why do you give us hard content when the scrubs can get everything elsewhere?”.

I don’t like raids because it feels like my efforts don’t contribute to anything… When I play in 5 man groups for instance I know my efforts are important and if I muck up it means my group suffers.

Vees.7816:

I don’t have much MMO experience. I have never done raids before. They seem to be quite fun.

They aren’t. /Thread

Raids don’t work without gear upgrades. People won’t repeat them ad nauseam without the rewards. GW2 customers have barely accepted the existing gear upgrades with ANet’s promise they’d be available to multiple play-styles.

Also, organizing raids creates headaches along the lines of herding cats. Raids can also create drama due to failures caused by player malfunction, loot drama, or people sitting on a voice client for hours dealing with frustration.

Some problems with raids
– Individual player contributions drop in scale compared to teamwork, or rather following a leader’s instructions to the letter
- Getting a lot of people together at the right time is frustrating and raids are very prone to drop outs, afk, time wasting, and boredom
- As soon as guilds arrange times to meet for raiding it starts to impinge on personal lives. There is always pressure on guild members to attend and stay longer than they want.
- Leading big raids can be very fractious, stressful, and burns players out
- Raiding content is not seen by ‘casual’ players and it makes them unhappy if they can’t experience it (and it has better loots)
- Most of what could be achieved with raids is already done with big world events that don’t have the above problems.

- Raiding content is not seen by ‘casual’ players and it makes them unhappy if they can’t experience it (and it has better loots)

This is really the only problem with raids in general. ‘Casual’ players don’t like the idea of

a) a stable dungeon/raid group
b) coordinating with strangers

Even if the content is entirely optional, they will simply object to the idea for no good reasons, as can be seen in earlier posts already, e.g.

And no, I don’t want to join a raiding guild, so let’s not go there.

- Most of what could be achieved with raids is already done with big world events that don’t have the above problems.

This is true, as can be seen in the Orr Temple events. However, when you make such content only available through a public event, the likelihood of failure is infinitely higher than an attempt of a semi-organised group of 10 or 25 or 40. Take for example the Grenth Temple clearing event. It has one mechanic requiring group coordination, failure of which will cause catastrophic results and flunk the entire event. Now if you’re anywhere familiar with Cursed Shore, you’ll know that the event will fail 9/10 times. Why? Because it’s not a raid. Because this is Guild Wars 2 and I can play however I want because that’s what ANet told me. Because you’re not my guild leader and I’m not part of your silly ‘raid’ guild.

I haven’t seen this mentioned, but we will have ‘raids’ in the upcoming patch, if I understand it correctly. I am, of course, referring to ‘Guild Missions’, which in essence isn’t that different from the 10-man dungeons in World of Warcraft and similar: an organised group of players banding together to overcome a challenge set by a particular content.

Vees.7816:

I don’t have much MMO experience. I have never done raids before. They seem to be quite fun. Plus it’ll just add more content to the game. It’s something more than a 5 man dungeon. I see people TRULY do not want raids. I feel like they would be more teamwork. Maybe have raids that require different amount of people?

If people truly do not like raids, then just don’t do them? I feel like that’s a simple solution.

Raids are not fun because they are block schedule commitments. If you don’t give equal reward for the commitment, people won’t do them. If you do, it breaks the entire idea of having easy access to all parts of the game for everyone. Plenty other games have raids, feel free to try them there.

Hah, hah, hah. You’re assuming guild missions won’t be raids.

Raid is a dirty word in the GW2 forums. People still cling to Arenanets original manifesto. lesson learned.

As for raids if done well (by the developer), can be really fun.

Now everyone back to your dungeon speed runs for gold. chop chop!

Kamahl.3621:

Hah, hah, hah. You’re assuming guild missions won’t be raids.

No, I completely forgot about the fact that there’s gunna be a thing called guild missions at the time I posted this. Nice try though.

Message Body can’t be blank

I think it’s a matter of personal preference.
I for one, miss raids in this game.
I don’t like PvP, and rerunning fractals over and over and over again is getting really boring.
With dungeon tokens provide specific gear sets, there is no reason to do dungeons you don’t need except for once to get the achievement or whatever you want from that particular run.

This game is totally missing end game group content. Camping orr waiting for a chapion event to start isn’t nearly as good as raids.

Before quiting WoW, I loved the pug raid difficulty, and while being close to the real guild raid thing, it still didn’t spoil the challenge of gruild raiding.
I miss that a lot.
I miss the tank-healer-dps roles which let you focus on your role.

Again, a matter of personal interest.
I find this lacking, some people find this an advantage.
I don’t see another way for someone like me besides finding a new game to play pretty soon, as I don’t see any real news with the future dungeons, nor do I see how they make up for the lack of raid content.

Also, one of the big issues with raids in previous games was the way loot was handled. Because a boss would drop loot that everyone in the group had to fight over, “Dragon kill points (DKP)” systems were created to handle the distribution, which lead to in guild economics and all the drama that goes on between the “haves” and “have-nots” in the real world got played out in micro.

The fact that GW2 has a drop system focused on the individual, and that you don’t have to fight with your own team/guild over loot or argue over who really had the highest bit or bemoan the fact that you’ll never get a chance at it because you have a spouse, kids, and life (and so will never have enough points to bid on anything) or give up because one person has a cult personality that keeps everyone tied up in helping that one person improve their toon . . . anyway, I think it might be worth investigation to see if the GW2 system (of having both random drops to the individual and tokens to buy things) will be able to keep away the environment that created the hostility that people feel towards raiding in other games.

Kimyrielle.3826:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

raid dropped gear could have unique armor/weapon skins, crafting recipes, etc.

That’s pretty precisely why I don’t want to see raids in this game, EVER.

I don’t like raiding, main reason for that being that this content cannot be reasonably played with PUGs anymore, at least not in any game I have seen before (heck, it’s hard to find 5 people for a dungeon already!). And no, I don’t want to join a raiding guild, so let’s not go there.

But I DO love crafting. And collecting armour skins. Now guess how much I’d love it if suddenly the best crafting recipes and the nicest armour skins would be out of my reach! I loved it so much that I actually unsubscribed several MMOs just because of that – I don’t want to be a second-rate player anymore just because I don’t raid. And raiders are never happy unless they get the best of everything. Best gear. Best skins. Best materials. Best recipes. Best mounts. Best anything. For the rest of us.. what is there left, exactly?

I love Guild Wars 2 among things because it doesn’t have raids.

Raidfinder. Problem solved. Look at WoW for that. Difficulty is lower and pugs, heck even before it was there, was easily doable.

As MANY people said before and it’s Anets philosophy is that nothing is mandatory so why would you even think that the ‘best’ gear is available there?

More unique skins are something that should be added, through raids or not. You can get the skin in raids if you want to. Don’t want to? Deal with it. Do you hear people complaining about the skins that are only available to a certain dungeon? No. Everything is within reach if you actually do something to get it. It’s called a reward.

Nijjion.2069:

I don’t like raids because it feels like my efforts don’t contribute to anything… When I play in 5 man groups for instance I know my efforts are important and if I muck up it means my group suffers.

Same applies to 10 man raiding. I raided 10 man a lot in WoW and especially on heroic you needed everyone to be on top of their game. In 25 man that was less the case, but even still on heroic mode everyone had to focus and bring their a-game. Invalid argument.

Raiding becomes a second job and for me I already put in my dues.

Being able to log on and do whatever you want or not log on and come on a week later is a bonus.

To answer directly on the thread, raids are a pain in the butt. Both organizing one and playing it through. For the reasons all the posters above me said, I think that raids in this game will take some flavour away.

For instance, you have to raid 3-5 days per week. That means “mandatory” participation if you want to go anywhere PvE-wise. You simply have to be there. You have to have the top gear you can find outside of the raid itself, so you won’t fall back when group dynamics are covered. You will need the right foodbuffs/potions for your profession/role and so on. You need to learn tactics. Which is a very important bit. If people just got into a raid and merely mashed buttons for 10-15 mins per boss, it would not be fun. And if anyone says it would, after a month or two it would not.

The liberty you have with this game to experiment around with professions and roles is quite nice and many people might think that a raid will maybe take that away. Also from what I’ve seen so far, a raid would be too much hussle without the proper reward and the loot chance in this game are somehow a bit low for me to engage in a 5 hour raid with tons of gold in repairs.

That aside, I sincerely hope the guild missions are focused on 5-mans. You have great ideas for raids and/or gear? Put more dungeons in! Takes exactly 3 mins to set up and about an hour to finish (that including wipes since I always count the factor of someone being new/having no idea of how thing work). Personally I’d never want to give that up for a raid spot. 6 years of WoW left some pretty big bruises, trust me on this one, in my opinion this game will be a lot better off without raids.

That being said, give more dungeons, more skins/armors/lasers/spaceships/loot-in-general, to the 5-mans style of PvE you already have going.

Why exactly do you ‘have to’ raid? Where does it say it ‘has to’ take hours. Nowhere. This is a misconception made by many. If you don’t want to, don’t, want to do it once a week whenever you feel like it? Pugging can work, plenty of solutions help with making that viable as well. This game has already broken so many stereotypes, why not raiding too? IF they were to implement raiding, and I think Guild Missions is a step in that direction (well see how that plays out), why do they have to do it the traditional way? Oh right. They don’t.

Kaoloi.7092:

To answer directly on the thread, raids are a pain in the butt. Both organizing one and playing it through. For the reasons all the posters above me said, I think that raids in this game will take some flavour away.

For instance, you have to raid 3-5 days per week. That means “mandatory” participation if you want to go anywhere PvE-wise. You simply have to be there. You have to have the top gear you can find outside of the raid itself, so you won’t fall back when group dynamics are covered. You will need the right foodbuffs/potions for your profession/role and so on. You need to learn tactics. Which is a very important bit. If people just got into a raid and merely mashed buttons for 10-15 mins per boss, it would not be fun. And if anyone says it would, after a month or two it would not.

The liberty you have with this game to experiment around with professions and roles is quite nice and many people might think that a raid will maybe take that away. Also from what I’ve seen so far, a raid would be too much hussle without the proper reward and the loot chance in this game are somehow a bit low for me to engage in a 5 hour raid with tons of gold in repairs.

That aside, I sincerely hope the guild missions are focused on 5-mans. You have great ideas for raids and/or gear? Put more dungeons in! Takes exactly 3 mins to set up and about an hour to finish (that including wipes since I always count the factor of someone being new/having no idea of how thing work). Personally I’d never want to give that up for a raid spot. 6 years of WoW left some pretty big bruises, trust me on this one, in my opinion this game will be a lot better off without raids.

That being said, give more dungeons, more skins/armors/lasers/spaceships/loot-in-general, to the 5-mans style of PvE you already have going.

They can be, on the flip side they can also be a blast

Why do raids have to require 3-5 days a week? I mean just using WoW as an example my guild ran once one week and twice the next week and continued with that and still progressed fine. But even that is besides the point, raids if anything are in reference to size and somewhat to difficulty. Top gear in this game is absurdly easy to find, and so far you dont really need a exact group makeup so why would it change when it becomes 10 mans? And whats wrong with learning tactics? I think most that is what they are looking for is the challenge in the fight.

I really dont see a reason why this would go away when making a raid, i think part of the problem is people associated raids with WoW raids, why cant GW2 Raids allow this?

As for loot this is simple, it provides its own skins that is special to it much like any of the other dungeons. In addition to this it drops gear that has a resistance that is relevant to the raid itself much like fractals providing an in house vertical progression via agony resists the raid can have the same.

So sick of raiding for top tier gear. Too many years of it and it gets old. I don’t care if there are raids in a game for those that want to do them but I do not want to raid anymore and I really do not want to raid for top tier gear. Farming raids gets so old, especially because ppl get sick of it and you have to replace someone every week and teach a new person the fights.

I got this game because there were no raids for top tier gear. I spent to many years in the gear treadmill raiding. The idea of having to do that again makes me kringe.

I know there are a lot of people out there that really like to raid and I would be fine with raids in this game if you did not have to grind them for gear.

I also see a lot of ppl talking about guild missions, I hope they do it like TERA did. You would get a guild quest and go out and do it for guild points. Unfortunately it was kill x monsters or gather x things. If GW2 could make them more dynamic and create like a mission where you would go out and do an instanced DE with you guild mates that would really be fun, maybe not as hard as a raid but maybe like a Grenth type difficulty.

Since GW2 is not a gear-based vertical progression game, it would be hard to convince a lot of people to even attempt a raid. ANet is not a large company, so spending time making raids that a small minority of players would play is not a wise use of time.

GW2’s gameplay is better suited to 5 mans. Raids wouldn’t really change much, except you’d have more people. Any notion of boss difficulty that would come from having more players can be easily translated to a 5 man format.

Direksone.3867:

Why exactly do you ‘have to’ raid? Where does it say it ‘has to’ take hours. Nowhere. This is a misconception made by many. If you don’t want to, don’t, want to do it once a week whenever you feel like it? Pugging can work, plenty of solutions help with making that viable as well. This game has already broken so many stereotypes, why not raiding too? IF they were to implement raiding, and I think Guild Missions is a step in that direction (well see how that plays out), why do they have to do it the traditional way? Oh right. They don’t.

You don’t ‘have to’ raid anything if you don’t like, but since my experience with raiding was solely gathered in WoW, as far as PvE was concerned, you ‘had to’ raid if you wanted the most shiny loot. Also it does not ‘have to’ take hours anywhere. Again when sharing my WoW experiences, it was never done in under an hour. Pugging, when I was playing at least seemed like sci-fi, and most cases ended badly.

That being said I never said that ANet should not, or most importantly must not, put raids in. If they have some cool ideas for raid content (whatever those are) then by all means, they should go ahead.

However the reason I’m afraid of such a move is because I am not sure they can break that ‘traditional’ raiding style. Seriously this game is really good but if they do something as simple as putting, for example, the awesome Arah gear in a place I have to go with 10+ people to get it, and there is no other way for me to get it, then that would mean some serious minus points to this game so far.

One of the reasons I stopped playing WoW and decided to stop buying game cards is precisely because I reached a point where it felt like I could not progress unless I joined up with a successful guild and did raids on their schedule.

GW2 won me over because it promised that I could play the game on my own time, if and when I could, and that I would not be disadvantaged by not having access to content and gear that raiding players do. That, and the lack of subscription fees, are very important to me because I’m at a different stage in my life where I cannot devote bundles of time whenever a guild demands it. I think those things will help to attract some of the more mature (age-wise) players to GW2 also… not just the young crowd.

Even though you might not ‘have-to’ participate in raids, just having them in the game and not being able to do them makes me feel cheated. It makes me feel like I am paying for content that I am precluded from.

Now if they could implement raids in GW2 that didn’t require an elitist guild and could be done with a large PUG… that would be interesting, as long as they figure out a way to get PUGs to communicate better and actually form strategies. That would be fun.

Warruz.8096:

They can be, on the flip side they can also be a blast

Why do raids have to require 3-5 days a week? I mean just using WoW as an example my guild ran once one week and twice the next week and continued with that and still progressed fine. But even that is besides the point, raids if anything are in reference to size and somewhat to difficulty. Top gear in this game is absurdly easy to find, and so far you dont really need a exact group makeup so why would it change when it becomes 10 mans? And whats wrong with learning tactics? I think most that is what they are looking for is the challenge in the fight.

I really dont see a reason why this would go away when making a raid, i think part of the problem is people associated raids with WoW raids, why cant GW2 Raids allow this?

As for loot this is simple, it provides its own skins that is special to it much like any of the other dungeons. In addition to this it drops gear that has a resistance that is relevant to the raid itself much like fractals providing an in house vertical progression via agony resists the raid can have the same.

Well, let me clarify that so that we are on the same page. You said your guild used to run raids a day one week, then 2 days the next. Bear in mind that if you raided for example Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday, in WoW terms that would mean 3 raids per week seeing as a WoW week was Wednesday to Wednesday. If however you did less than that, then good for you. Back when I used to play WoW (I stopped WoW when Firelands came out to be exact) even the most casual people raided at least 2 days a week and that was pretty much a single guild. All the rest were at 3 raids per week minimum.

As for the size of the raid and the difficulty, I think that this game is infinitely more difficult when compared to WoW, and I like that aspect. I don’t need an exact group to clear dungeons and thankfully each and everyone has to row or else this will go nowhere. Why should I have to spend more time looking for the people to fill up a 10 man roster or a 15 man roster, while I can go run through 3 explore modes and 5 fractals with the same 5 people I started with.

Nothing is wrong with reading and learning tactics. All I want to say is that there is always an idiot/“smartass” that thinks he doesn’t need to do that. And tactic-ignorance in this particular game even from a single person will be catastrophic.

As for the absurdly easy top gear, I think we are not on the same page at all. For instance I can get an ascended amulet with a month farming. Easy? Yes. Time-consuming? Greatly. Does it matter? No. I don’t mind doing my dailies for a month to get a single piece of equipment, not the slightest but if I am not entrely mistaken if I need a specific set of armor which is only bought with Ascalonian Tears, a set of armor that will make my unique profession and playstyle go through the roof, I will be forced to go and run explore modes to get it. Will I be able to get a substitute gear for that? Most likely, yes. I am not sure about that. Do I mind running the same AC explore mode every time? No. Because I can set it up relatively easy than any 10 man, since I am not very well connected and I only have 4 other ppl whose play times match mine and we can do it relaxing on Skype with a ciggie and a beer.

Since this game already has that very gentle kind of forcing, since I cannot do it at all and still enjoy the game, I have to admit that I would either want to see something really breakthrough on the concept of raiding or nothing at all. From this simple example, to a raid that will be designed for 10 people with unique gear, unavailable anywhere else, I think the line is too kitten thin.

Generally and as this whole thread is about, it is not about reasons why ANet should NOT implement raids. It was a thread of a person wondering why people in general find raiding unattractive. Personally I don’t see a reason why ANet should not proceed with any ideas they have, but until they prove to me that they have in mind something very very special I’d rather not have to run any 10 man raid/dungeon to get my awesome set of Arah gear as I said above.

As for the loot, I really don’t care. If I am to embark on a dangerous adventure through the catacombs of some long forgotten, cursed and dead mage with a group of mates, then the loot can go to hell. They could do something new and exciting of keep giving everyone separate loot.

I think that sums it up. Sorry for the long post, and let me apologise profusely if my train of thought has offended anyone, I assure you it is nothing personal.

Cheers.

Raiding guilds always had a raiding schedule. Scheduling your life aroud a raiding schedule doesn’t appeal to most people.

Vees.7816:

Kamahl.3621:

Hah, hah, hah. You’re assuming guild missions won’t be raids.

No, I completely forgot about the fact that there’s gunna be a thing called guild missions at the time I posted this. Nice try though.

Those are going to be open world, at least for now.

Despite the long posts on either side I haven’t seen any mention of the benefit of throwing more people into a single instance. What UNIQUE gameplay benefits does it have to offer?

The problem with raids if once you put it, you have to keep supporting, which takes away content from everywhere else just to please a very small percentage of the population.

The second problem with raids is that, they are generally attached to rewards that force people to do the. Some might argue to make it cosmetic, but from my experience the type of people who raid WANT some incentive and cosmetic gear isn’t going to do the trick. This eventually leads to raids not being used. so now you have content designed for a very small fraction of the population percentage wise (based on WoW an estimated 7 to 10% are raiders), take away all the gear and you ended with an even smaller percentage. The question becomes it is worth it to dedicate resources for content that a very small population is going to play?

Personally, I see it as, most of the people that like raids aren’t going to leave WoW to come raid in guild wars 2 for non leet gear, so why bother wasting resources that could be used for content that many more would enjoy.

I find it silly to argue whether you ‘have to’ raid or not. It’s a game, you don’t ‘have’ to do anything, you don’t even ‘have’ to level up or play at all.
It’s a matter of whether you have to raid to experience the game in a satisfying manner, which usually would mean to get raid gear in order to be competitive with everyone else.. If no one will have you in a group because you’re a “noob” without raid armor, then it’s not a satisfying experience. That’s just a very basic, but hopefully illustrative example.

I’ve managed to raid twice in my life, and I’ve played a lot of MMOs.. But I simply can’t just tie myself in front of the computer the entire night without having to leave for this and that and getting interrupted by other people.
I don’t necessarily mind having raids for other people to do, I just find it annoying to always be massively outgeared because I’m unable to sign out of RL for so many continuous hours.

Never played WoW, never done a raid. Based on what people say I imagine it would be like a dungeon but on a much bigger scale, and a reason to do something on a big scale with a guild that isn’t WvW? Sounds pretty fun. Reminds me of Urgoz/The Deep from gw1 which took a large team (12) and required good teamwork and coordination for a nice payoff.

I think it is stupid to condemn a new system in a game based on the fact that it could have new gear/skins only obtainable through it. You cannot get Fractal skins without running fractals, you can NOT get dungeon skins unless you DO the dungeon.

There are many examples of this in gw2 already, so how would adding another really hurt? I personally don’t know how much I would participate, maybe a lot maybe not much at all, but I would not be sad to have the option.

Old excuse: Raids give the best gear in the game. More commitment/time investment, more rewards to reap. Not everyone can form an organized group based on skilled play and communication and do what other players do. /wah

In GW2: People shouldn’t be scared by raids. There is not much for a level 80 with exotic gear to do in this game minus WvW. The only rewards would be visual upgrade and guess what, THATS FINE, no one is crying for stat upgrades. But many want something challenging that can include more than just four other friends to complete. (And I’m not including open-world zerg events)

You’re always going to get the people who cry about raids. Guess what, I’m kitten I’ll never get a legendary because the grind is so stupid insane. But I deal with it. I’m okay with not experiencing and acquiring something within the game. You should do the same.

Not everything in the game needs to appeal to every person.

I vote /for raids (15-25man, no stat upgrade, purely based on challenging content & new weapon and armor skins)

George Steel.1804:

Old excuse: Raids give the best gear in the game. More commitment/time investment, more rewards to reap. Not everyone can form an organized group based on skilled play and communication and do what other players do. /wah

In GW2: People shouldn’t be scared by raids. There is not much for a level 80 with exotic gear to do in this game minus WvW. The only rewards would be visual upgrade and guess what, THATS FINE, no one is crying for stat upgrades. But many want something challenging that can include more than just four other friends to complete. (And I’m not including open-world zerg events)

You’re always going to get the people who cry about raids. Guess what, I’m kitten I’ll never get a legendary because the grind is so stupid insane. But I deal with it. I’m okay with not experiencing and acquiring something within the game. You should do the same.

Not everything in the game needs to appeal to every person.

I vote /for raids (15-25man, no stat upgrade, purely based on challenging content & new weapon and armor skins)

This is acceptable to me.

This game is basically dead to me.. I feel this game is geared to more casual players than the End Game crowd. There’s really nothing to do after you get geared up other than pvp which doesen’t really reward you for pvp’ing. Adding raids to this game would keep the end game aspect of this game more interesting.

Me Kill You.9035:

Never played WoW, never done a raid. Based on what people say I imagine it would be like a dungeon but on a much bigger scale, and a reason to do something on a big scale with a guild that isn’t WvW? Sounds pretty fun. Reminds me of Urgoz/The Deep from gw1 which took a large team (12) and required good teamwork and coordination for a nice payoff.

I think it is stupid to condemn a new system in a game based on the fact that it could have new gear/skins only obtainable through it. You cannot get Fractal skins without running fractals, you can NOT get dungeon skins unless you DO the dungeon.

There are many examples of this in gw2 already, so how would adding another really hurt? I personally don’t know how much I would participate, maybe a lot maybe not much at all, but I would not be sad to have the option.

In this context, a ‘raid’ is a dungeon/challenge requiring 10-40 players. This is significantly more difficult than a regular 5-man dungeon because the level of coordination within PUGs severely decline with the number of players. This means that unless the content is made to be as brain-dead easy as the current dungeons, only coordinated guild groups can clear the content. People who are stuck in small guilds, or don’t have guilds, or just can’t find it in themselves to interact with other people in an MMO will be locked out of this content and therefore feel cheated.

The one key aspect overlooked by most posters is the ‘social pressure’ inherent in raid groups. Let’s take for example a 10-man progression raid content that you know will take a stable group with good teamwork to clear. You sign on with a group that sets one specific time of the day of the week to attempt this raid. Then because 9/10 of those players suddenly want to increase the frequency to 2, 3 or maybe 5 raids a week, or even extend raiding hours, but you cannot/will not commit. What then? Well, you’ll soon find yourself out of a raid team, or you match their required commitment.

ANet also did nothing to help when they introduced the Ascended tier months after release, along with Agony. When all they had touted and all we had believed until then was that Exotic was where it stopped (in terms of stats), this new tier with higher stats and content that had stat gating (Agony Resistance) seemed like nothing more than the gear treadmill all over again, despite ANet’s own manifesto.