Guild Wars 2

laharl.8435:

Black Box.9312:

laharl.8435:

Skilled play isn’t as rewarding in gw2 pvp. Build usually matters more than skill. Then there’s luck factor. I get my pvp fun in other games better balanced for it. I don’t even do the pvp daily anymore.

What? For as little skill as this game’s PvP might require (which I’d say is debatable to begin with), PvE lacks it twofold. Anyone who has a basic understanding of how to abuse poor AI mechanics can easily clear dungeons, no skill involved.

I was referencing that comment to other pvp games I play, not to gw2 pve. Although I’ve seen plenty of skilled pve players, maybe you’ve just never seen one.

Yeah, my mistake, after reading it over again it seems I misinterpreted. I wasn’t really suggesting that people who play PvE aren’t skilled though, but rather that (for the most part) skill isn’t required to excel in it, even with a full zerker party.

Black Box.9312:

laharl.8435:

Black Box.9312:

laharl.8435:

Skilled play isn’t as rewarding in gw2 pvp. Build usually matters more than skill. Then there’s luck factor. I get my pvp fun in other games better balanced for it. I don’t even do the pvp daily anymore.

What? For as little skill as this game’s PvP might require (which I’d say is debatable to begin with), PvE lacks it twofold. Anyone who has a basic understanding of how to abuse poor AI mechanics can easily clear dungeons, no skill involved.

I was referencing that comment to other pvp games I play, not to gw2 pve. Although I’ve seen plenty of skilled pve players, maybe you’ve just never seen one.

Yeah, my mistake, after reading it over again it seems I misinterpreted. I wasn’t really suggesting that people who play PvE aren’t skilled though, but rather that (for the most part) skill isn’t required to excel in it, even with a full zerker party.

What’s your definition ‘to excel’? You can top the solo queue ranks with a combination of cheese builds + a bit of luck with team mate rolls, doesn’t mean you’re any good at PvP. Team queue is the same deal. Individual skill is less important than the callers ability to call splits.

Writetyper.1985:

BLLLLLLLLLLLLLACK BOX

#emotions

BARABARABARABARABARABARABARABARABARA <3

pve: mobs with broken AI are harder and more engaging than ppl
pvp: ppl are easy like moas in queensdale

thats why i like pve more;p

DnT has people in the top 50 of team q and solo q. What more do you want from us?

imo, I would be interested in 5v5 death match with some unique rewards that is all. ty.

tPvP can be fun from time to time, but well you can win by playing badly (but with good communitation)

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

DnT has people in the top 50 of team q and solo q. What more do you want from us?

asuna is a trashcan skyhammer abusing spirit ranger though

#calledout #frizzlyfrazzled #tryinghard

hehehe

hohoho

Because you master PvE if you know the animations and if you have good reaction times.
PvP you master if you have the better lame build.

dominik.9721:

Because you master PvE if you know the animations and if you have good reaction times.
PvP you master if you have the better lame build.

Hold on, let me just try and attempt some sick PvE on a defensive play how you want non-zerker exploit build. Y-yay! this is taking literally 10-20 minutes to bust through some massive massive health sack! I-i’m having loads of f-fun! I love big anet

Writetyper.1985:

dominik.9721:

Because you master PvE if you know the animations and if you have good reaction times.
PvP you master if you have the better lame build.

Hold on, let me just try and attempt some sick PvE on a defensive play how you want non-zerker exploit build. Y-yay! this is taking literally 10-20 minutes to bust through some massive massive health sack! I-i’m having loads of f-fun! I love big anet

This is how the game was intended to be played.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dodging-in-dungeons/first#post3491208

It’s not really 100% action game, it’s not 100% traditional rpg-like; it went with 50/50. So when it comes to tpvp game play it’s not as compelling as competitive focused games (I mean real games, not garbage pvp from some mmo).

gw2 tpvp is enjoyable once in a while especially with the dry spell of real content, but i don’t see it having a lasting effect like other games.

Writetyper.1985:

I don’t. PvE is almost disappointingly easy in this game and it’s obvious because everyone is forced to make their own fun in speedruns and kitten like that. There’s also, as is the common complaint, no PvE endgame. It’s just doing (not remotely fun or challenging) dungeons for practically no reason. How many times can you run Arah over and over again?

More often than i can play Spirit watch or Skyhammer in soloQ

xsquared.1926:

Writetyper.1985:

I don’t. PvE is almost disappointingly easy in this game and it’s obvious because everyone is forced to make their own fun in speedruns and kitten like that. There’s also, as is the common complaint, no PvE endgame. It’s just doing (not remotely fun or challenging) dungeons for practically no reason. How many times can you run Arah over and over again?

More often than i can play Spirit watch or Skyhammer in soloQ

upvoted

I recently made a thinly veiled complaint thread about skyhammer with some other issues thrown in so that it wouldn’t just get merged into the big one. i would appreciate if you upvoted this in return, mystical ricepaper :^)

a t s e.9614:

farming dungeon paths for ultra bad rewards.

let’s not get rediculous here friend

Don’t pay them any attention.

a t s e.9614:

I like how ignorant people say you win pvp if you run a cheese build . Do you really think you are the only one with that precious build ? You would get stomped in less than a second no matter what build you have. As I said if it so easy join paid tournaments, and make gold\ irl money instead of just farming dungeon paths for ultra bad rewards.

And if you really have that powerful build that stomps everybody and you are the only one who is using this ultnmate build , can you share it with me ?

You realize that in GW1 gvg scene at it’s height, the top 200 guilds on the ladder were highly competitive, right? The same skill, effort and coordination it took to get top 150 guild (not players, guild) in GW1 would get you top 20 (players) in GW2. That is to say, if the top PVP guilds from GW1 took this game seriously (Evil, WM, iQ, Rawr, Te, PrP and so on) all the current super good pvp teams would look like jokes.

Watch some videos of Mistrel Edge in GvG tournaments playing on the ice map with their split build. You think those players would have any trouble dismantling the simplistic 5v5 splits in tpvp? Lolz

WM team disbanded after the WvW jokes

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

a t s e.9614:

I like how ignorant people say you win pvp if you run a cheese build . Do you really think you are the only one with that precious build ? You would get stomped in less than a second no matter what build you have. As I said if it so easy join paid tournaments, and make gold\ irl money instead of just farming dungeon paths for ultra bad rewards.

And if you really have that powerful build that stomps everybody and you are the only one who is using this ultnmate build , can you share it with me ?

You realize that in GW1 gvg scene at it’s height, the top 200 guilds on the ladder were highly competitive, right? The same skill, effort and coordination it took to get top 150 guild (not players, guild) in GW1 would get you top 20 (players) in GW2. That is to say, if the top PVP guilds from GW1 took this game seriously (Evil, WM, iQ, Rawr, Te, PrP and so on) all the current super good pvp teams would look like jokes.

Watch some videos of Mistrel Edge in GvG tournaments playing on the ice map with their split build. You think those players would have any trouble dismantling the simplistic 5v5 splits in tpvp? Lolz

Definitely! One time I ran CoE with the legendary team Na’Vi, the insane skill with which Dendi pressed 4 while holding a firey greatsword was breathtaking to behold.

Coe is for plebs.

Writetyper.1985:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

a t s e.9614:

I like how ignorant people say you win pvp if you run a cheese build . Do you really think you are the only one with that precious build ? You would get stomped in less than a second no matter what build you have. As I said if it so easy join paid tournaments, and make gold\ irl money instead of just farming dungeon paths for ultra bad rewards.

And if you really have that powerful build that stomps everybody and you are the only one who is using this ultnmate build , can you share it with me ?

You realize that in GW1 gvg scene at it’s height, the top 200 guilds on the ladder were highly competitive, right? The same skill, effort and coordination it took to get top 150 guild (not players, guild) in GW1 would get you top 20 (players) in GW2. That is to say, if the top PVP guilds from GW1 took this game seriously (Evil, WM, iQ, Rawr, Te, PrP and so on) all the current super good pvp teams would look like jokes.

Watch some videos of Mistrel Edge in GvG tournaments playing on the ice map with their split build. You think those players would have any trouble dismantling the simplistic 5v5 splits in tpvp? Lolz

Definitely! One time I ran CoE with the legendary team Na’Vi, the insane skill with which Dendi pressed 4 while holding a firey greatsword was breathtaking to behold.

http://youtu.be/GS-bmXJM2bg

Mistrel Edge dismantling someone using complicated split tactics in a tournament final.

After watching that, you shouldn’t have to ask why I don’t take the pvp in this game seriously.

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

This game’s PvE is so uncompetitive that you have to MAKE it competitive. I don’t see how you could possibly argue against that.

Black Box.9312:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

This game’s PvE is so uncompetitive that you have to MAKE it competitive. I don’t see how you could possibly argue against that.

No game is competative until you make it competative….

Black Box.9312:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

This game’s PvE is so uncompetitive that you have to MAKE it competitive. I don’t see how you could possibly argue against that.

Same could be said about pvp, not seeing your point.

I play all three part of the game for different reasons.

PvE : Its a MMO, the PvE part the core of the game. I like to team up with my team again an objective and feel a progression with my character.

sPvP : Its competitive, fast pace, don’t always know what you gonna get into and always need focus. But in the end, if i want a PvP fix i’ll go a PvP game and i rarely do more than 3-5 sPvP match with or without friend before moving on.

WvW : I know the op said not wvw, but its part of the game. For the first 6 month of the game I stayed with PvE since it was all new, but as the time past I put more and more time into WvW and less into PvE. Even if a lot of people say it only zerg vs zerg and that z vs z is no skill press 1 and it suck (which i don’t find true at all), even if this mode need huge work to bring balance between the numbers of each server, i still love it.

In the end i try to enjoy most of the game and don’t fall into the classic :

Pvers saying that sPvP and WvW need no skill, but they do
sPvPers saying that PvE and WvW need no skill, but they do
and WvWers saying that PvE and sPvP need no skill, but they do

Guild Wars 2 PvE is as competitive as high level, high stakes Minesweeper, and the PvP is roughly on the same level as Tic Tac Toe. To say otherwise would be ignorant of the important factors of both games.

In Minesweeper, the player is pitted against the ruthless, capricious intelligence of a computer. The same intelligence that is able to do calculations faster than a human mind can. Yet, through careful play and mastery over the intricacies of the metagame, one is able to overcome the Minesweeper in no time at all. Now, one may ask, “it is 2014, why do people still play Minesweeper?” There are two answers. The first is by mistake – nobody willingly clicks on Minesweeper unless they are old and downloaded so many bars for Internet Explorer that their computer would be able to run TERA on maximum settings more efficiently, or they placed it next to Guild Wars 2 (great games belong together :~)). The other reason being that they have found a way to make a normally mindless, storyless game one of the best things since single celled organisms found out that oxygen is rad and should be inhaled more.

As for PvP and Tic Tac Toe, both of them are used to settle disputes or are used to pass the time quickly. In Hotjoin PvP, there is much debate between the players as to which side is a better fit for them. Should I be aggressive and passionate like the Red team? Or should I be pensive and flowing like Blue? Additionally, there are often instances that players will tell each other to engage in the act of “1v1 me scrub”. This is when the system (PvP in Guild Wars 2, Tic Tac Toe) is used to settle a dispute – in most cases, this is which competitor possesses more skill than the other. This automatically gives both Tic Tac Toe and PvP a more competitive air.

Now there are some people who have taken this game to the next level – competitive Tic Tac Toe, and Solo queue/Esports PvP. In this game modes, there is no debate over which side one plays – it is not an issue. One is simply assigned Red or Blue, “X” or “O”. These matches are not played to idly pass the time like the more casual versions – they are high stakes matches with potential rewards on the line.

It is very rare to see this level of dedication in the Minesweeper community. There is very little variance in the patterns that a computer can generate, whereas the ever evolving metagame in both PvP and Tic Tac Toe can lead to what are referred to as “Big Plays for Big Players”.

In short, it is folly for one to even consider Minesweeper or PvE more competitive than Tic Tac Toe or PvP – that is not to say that they are both equally fun, or equally lacking fun.

swiftpaw.6397:

Black Box.9312:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

This game’s PvE is so uncompetitive that you have to MAKE it competitive. I don’t see how you could possibly argue against that.

Same could be said about pvp, not seeing your point.

Competition involves two opposing sides or teams that are vying for a victory over the other.

AI has no sense of competition because it has no desire to win.

Black Box.9312:

swiftpaw.6397:

Black Box.9312:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

This game’s PvE is so uncompetitive that you have to MAKE it competitive. I don’t see how you could possibly argue against that.

Same could be said about pvp, not seeing your point.

Competition involves two opposing sides or teams that are vying for a victory over the other.

AI has no sense of competition because it has no desire to win.

Black Box.9312:

swiftpaw.6397:

Black Box.9312:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

This game’s PvE is so uncompetitive that you have to MAKE it competitive. I don’t see how you could possibly argue against that.

Same could be said about pvp, not seeing your point.

Competition involves two opposing sides or teams that are vying for a victory over the other.

AI has no sense of competition because it has no desire to win.

I don’t think you understand. The dungeon hard cores are competing against each other for the fastest run times.

The riders make the race. There are some good PvPers in gw2 esports scene (like ten of them) and within themselves there might be something resembling competition. There are more and better players in GW2 speed clear scene than there are in GW2 esports scene.

Black Box.9312:

Competition involves two opposing sides or teams that are vying for a victory over the other.

AI has no sense of competition because it has no desire to win.

Were not competing against the AI….

And techniquely pvp isnt always competative (in a certain sense) because in hotjoin many people dont really care all that much whether they win or lose. We consider competative as competing seriously against other people. And theres a lot more real competition in high end pve than there is in pvp at the moment.

Also saying we are competing against the AI is like saying pvp’ers are competing against the capture points.

J Eberle.9312:

I don’t think you understand. The dungeon hard cores are competing against each other for the fastest run times.

No, I understand that quite well. I just also understand that there is nothing competitive about people who rely on ‘good RNG’ over skills required to manage unpredictable situations. If killing another player that is actually actively working against you means nothing, then seeing who can stack in corners the fastest and get the best reflects off means far less than nothing.

Black Box.9312:

J Eberle.9312:

I don’t think you understand. The dungeon hard cores are competing against each other for the fastest run times.

No, I understand that quite well. I just also understand that there is nothing competitive about people who rely on ‘good RNG’ over skills required to manage unpredictable situations. If killing another player that is actually actively working against you means nothing, then seeing who can stack in corners the fastest and get the best reflects off means far less than nothing.

spoj.9672:

Also saying we are competing against the AI is like saying pvp’ers are competing against the capture points.

Relying on Rng exists in pvp as well btw. From the random match ups right down to whether your sigil of fire triggers.

Same tactics can be applied to pvp and achieve similar results.

spoj.9672:

Same tactics can be applied to pvp and achieve similar results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL7T2ZURlZ0

Implying that hotjoins are where the competition lies.

Obviously im exaggerating. But there really isnt that much competition in pvp. There was a fair amount of “decent” teams a few months ago. But they’ve all quit now.

Everytime I Q for team there’s like maybe 2 other teams on in my bracket, it’s really boring.

The other night I faced the same team 6 times in a row. zzzzzz

Oh and when my bracket isn’t on, just get matched up against noobs and win like 500/25, I actually feel awful. :/

a t s e.9614:

Terrible PvEers can and will faceroll any dungeon in this game. Terrible PvPers will never win anything no matter how hard they try.

How can you call yourself skilled at PvE if you didint beat any hard boss that no-one can beat? Anybody literally anybody can complete any dungeon path in this game. The said ’’skilled’’ PvEers are only doing the currect easy-mode content faster than noobs. That’s it. No matter how terrible I am , I can do excatly what the ’’skilled’’ PvEer did , it will just take me more time. While if you are bad at PvP , you are just bad and will never win.

Are you sure about that? Because if I go over to the pvp forum all I see is

‘omg spirit rangers require no skill to play, it’s just pew pew to win! omg necros are OP, bads using AI to win pls nerf! omg warrior’s passive healing OP pls nerf!’

Ohey look I even found something from you

a t s e.9614:

Seriously its just pathetic , they dont even use their weapon skills. Just run around in circles like a headless chicken and let your minions do the work…

Sadly , the only way to counter this is to jump in the aoe spam bandwagon. There is no other way around , no matter how good you are , nothing can be done against this broken build. The minions deal insane damage, they have CC, they throw condis on you… And the saddest part is that 0 skill is required to play this build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/MM-necro-is-getting-ridiculous/first

I lost one match in pvp so I will never play it again as it has nothing to do with experienceor practice, iI just essentially suck as a person and could never ever beat that team no matter how hard I would try.

Right?

spoj.9672:

Obviously im exaggerating. But there really isnt that much competition in pvp. There was a fair amount of “decent” teams a few months ago. But they’ve all quit now.

Okay, fair enough, I can agree with that. But I’m still of the opinion that an AI that is predictable 100% of the time is less competitive than players, even if those players are predictable 99% of the time.

a t s e.9614:

Terrible PvEers can and will faceroll any dungeon in this game. Terrible PvPers will never win anything no matter how hard they try.

How can you call yourself skilled at PvE if you didint beat any hard boss that no-one can beat? Anybody literally anybody can complete any dungeon path in this game. The said ’’skilled’’ PvEers are only doing the current easy-mode content faster than noobs. That’s it. No matter how terrible I am , I can do excatly what the ’’skilled’’ PvEer did , it will just take me more time. While if you are bad at PvP , you are just bad and will never win.

When you YoloQ. The only thing you hope for, is less bad players on your team than the other. It seems no matter where my MMR is, it always comes down to which team gets less dumb people. I’m right at 50/50 win to lost ratio, based on things I can’t even control. Yay PvP. And yay 4v5’s… I would TPvP, but I only do it if I have a full team of 5 on for it, which is rare.

You do CoF in 5 min , I do it in 1 hour, I still beat the dungeon so you are not better.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

maxinion.8396:

You do CoF in 5 min , I do it in 1 hour, I still beat the dungeon so you are not better.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I should try that at work. Take a week to do something someone else does in a day. When my boss says the other guy is better at the job, I’ll say no way, we are exact equals, I got the job done too!

Atse that is complete and utter nonsense.

maxinion.8396:

You do CoF in 5 min , I do it in 1 hour, I still beat the dungeon so you are not better.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Complete /facepalm. What do it take you so long to complete that path? If you are full cleric with no dodge and no wipe then I admit you are more skillful than me. But I doubt it.

a t s e.9614:

PvE content takes skill only if it is solo . If you are 5 man-ing everything and calling yourself skilled there is a problem. tPvP takes alot of skill and understanding of all the classes. If arenanet gets rid of spirit rangers, MM necros, diamond skin , automated response and healing signet it would be alot more interesting.

LOL @ Diamond Skin.

Diamond skin is good in EXTREMELY situational scenarios. It’s only good if…

1. You are going up against a build that is essentially ONLY condition damage with no direct damage at all. AFAIK only necros run builds that heavily slanted towards condition damage. And even if it is a necro condi build, if he is bright enough to go into DS and lifeblast you a few times…he can probably get you under the 90% threshold.

2. There is no one else around.

Point is that it’s pretty freaking easy to reduce an ele to 90% health. And once they are at 90% health, you can put all the conditions on them you want. And even IF they get above 90% again…the conditions on them do not go away unless purged so they will bleed right back down to 90%.

a t s e.9614:

Diamond skin is still a passive trait . Why turning ele’s into spirit rangers? Thats the problem with arenanet , the passive stuff is always buffed. Ele are still useless anyway , the addition of diamond skin only helps in 1v1 situations and nowhere else.

Yeah Diamond Skin just overall isn’t that good. It’s a passive trait sure, but it’s so easy to get around, and so situational, that it’s not worth taking.

The only people complaining about it being OP are people running the extreme condi builds that it actually counters.