Guild Wars 2

This is not a rant thread, I’m just confused as to why people don’t speak up, a couple of days ago I was in a chaos fractal group it was going quite well..UNTIL the bonfire part of it(failed 6 times in a row). 2 out of 5 (including myself) were the only ones who knew what to do. At this point I’m guessing the people that were with us wanted to be carried. I asked “is anyone new to this instance?” only 1 of the 3 said something, I explained what to do. only the one who asked understood while the other 2 still did nothing. Why is it so hard to say something?

I often run into this problem too. A lot of people are afraid to say they’ve never done it because they think they might get booted from the group, which is the biggest reason thats been expressed to me. I always say that I’d rather explain something a dozen times than fail repeatedly only to find out someone’s never done it.

There are also some people who assume it will be easy since core tyria is also easy, and then fail to understand that they are the problem, but these are a very small minority.

UnbentMars.9126:

I often run into this problem too. A lot of people are afraid to say they’ve never done it because they think they might get booted from the group, which is the biggest reason thats been expressed to me. I always say that I’d rather explain something a dozen times than fail repeatedly only to find out someone’s never done it.

There are also some people who assume it will be easy since core tyria is also easy, and then fail to understand that they are the problem, but these are a very small minority.

I understand that much. The chances of getting booted for speaking up is slim though, I recently got over the hurdle of denying myself the nightmare fractal until 2 weeks ago, same with chaos fractal. Both of those someone was willing to explain. Not saying anything hampers the group because people assume you know what to do. The person that knew and I left that group because they weren’t even trying to understand.

steve.2945:

This is not a rant thread, I’m just confused as to why people don’t speak up, a couple of days ago I was in a chaos fractal group it was going quite well..UNTIL the bonfire part of it(failed 6 times in a row). 2 out of 5 (including myself) were the only ones who knew what to do. At this point I’m guessing the people that were with us wanted to be carried. I asked “is anyone new to this instance?” only 1 of the 3 said something, I explained what to do. only the one who asked understood while the other 2 still did nothing. Why is it so hard to say something?

not everyone speaks the universal language of the world, sadly enough.

understanding numbers should not matter what language u speak though. tho maybe they were being ignorant deliberately on purpose then

steve.2945:

UnbentMars.9126:

I often run into this problem too. A lot of people are afraid to say they’ve never done it because they think they might get booted from the group, which is the biggest reason thats been expressed to me. I always say that I’d rather explain something a dozen times than fail repeatedly only to find out someone’s never done it.

There are also some people who assume it will be easy since core tyria is also easy, and then fail to understand that they are the problem, but these are a very small minority.

I understand that much. The chances of getting booted for speaking up is slim though, I recently got over the hurdle of denying myself the nightmare fractal until 2 weeks ago, same with chaos fractal. Both of those someone was willing to explain. Not saying anything hampers the group because people assume you know what to do. The person that knew and I left that group because they weren’t even trying to understand.

For whatever reason, even if it isn’t case, the perception is that ‘newbs get booted’. It’s their own fault on that one since you expressed a desire to teach, so you shouldn’t trouble you

What did your LFM say? If it said or implied that all were welcome and you ended up with someone who thought they could fake it until they made it, its as much the group leaders fault as it is the newbies fault.

SoV.5139:

What did your LFM say? If it said or implied that all were welcome and you ended up with someone who thought they could fake it until they made it, its as much the group leaders fault as it is the newbies fault.

No even all welcome groups want communication if you wipe first time due to 20%-80% of said team dident do anything right at all.

Linken.6345:

SoV.5139:

What did your LFM say? If it said or implied that all were welcome and you ended up with someone who thought they could fake it until they made it, its as much the group leaders fault as it is the newbies fault.

No even all welcome groups want communication if you wipe first time due to 20%-80% of said team dident do anything right at all.

Better LFMs attract like minded players. Period. We have retained evidence of this from every single game we visit, review, and continue to keep playing.

Furthermore, people who claim theres very little chance to get kicked for being a first timer likely learned this stuff when it first came out and everyone was a first timer. Nowdays theres a larger chance to get kicked. Theres people who QQ in game, but wont admit it ion the forums, about a few more minutes of time consumption having to teach and lead. Those who are already experienced dont see this because they arent the newbies, and while they themselves may not be someone who boots first timers, this does happen in game far more often than people on the forums are willing to admit it does. Thus, newbies try the ol fake it until you make it strategy.

While people think they are saving time here, they really arent, as this is what it leads to. Better crafted LFMs is what saves the most time. Anything that is not in the LFM is relying on assumption. Newbies who are not experienced are they very group of folks who are not informed on what they can and cant assume. They will not assume that this group leader wont boot them after the last few did.

i once sugested having anew player icon to ppl who recently joined the fractal and hit lvl 80 and i was treated with responses like “i dont want to be called nood and that will bring toxicity” tbbh that would be the case to some degree but having something to show tha you might not be exp is still good coz ppl know what to expect and can react accordingly (kick wich honestly kittens do you better off blocking them) or suggest explain you some mecanics which i know many ppl dont have problem explaining.

Ppl are scared of getting flamed or kicked and they wont say a word or simply dont care but you cant do anything about the later so you might as well give a push to the ones who are scared of saying something.

as for the “a good lfm” i sadly call this bullkitten 60% of the time prime example "lf x/y/z calsses nightmare 100 cm “the unclean” title food/pots" and more that the 60% of ppl who join dont meet one of more of the op’s terms.

SoV.5139:

What did your LFM say? If it said or implied that all were welcome and you ended up with someone who thought they could fake it until they made it, its as much the group leaders fault as it is the newbies fault.

All it said was “daily T1”. Nightmare fractal isn’t bad because you can spot the weakest link and compensate. but chaos fractal isn’t forgiving with weak links. I don’t kick people who say they have’t done a certain fractal, we’ve all been there, and will continue to not know when new fractals comes out. But I will kick if you don’t communicate or refuse to listen. If more than half the group doesn’t plan on contributing then i’ll just leave.

When I spot somebody who is obviously new I usually get them in a whisper, asking if I should explain a few things. If the answer is yes, and it usually is, I try what I can to get it in text chat during the current run.
But if I have free time, I usually go a step further and get them on my TS and explain on Voicecom. Usually I give a tour of the Observatory while we wait on LFG members and then do the first few scales because it’s a nice mix of mechanics. A breakdown of strategic tips for bosses and a CC-Bar tutorial included.
So, to people who are new: Speak out to your group! On T1 noone will (should) kick you just for the fact you do this the first time, especially if you are willing to learn and improve.
To the Veterans: Be nice and be patient if you have someone in your group who has trouble. Taking 3 extra minutes to explain something can easily save you a 15+ minute grindfest where you have to solo everything.

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

Mourningcry.9428:

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

how would you know back at 50 ppl had a clue and new at 100 ppl dont? its a legit question btw i didnt play the game then

zealex.9410:

Mourningcry.9428:

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

how would you know back at 50 ppl had a clue and new at 100 ppl dont? its a legit question btw i didnt play the game then

Because back in the days people were already struggling in 30s and would not join a 50. There also wasn’t a downtuned version (a.k.a. no powercreep) of the highest fractals/tiers like we’ve gotten with the introduction of HoT. Since Anet attuned T4s back to a decent difficulty a lot of people is/was moaning about it. They have played several months of pressing 1 to win in T4 till that got reversed a little.

zealex.9410:

Mourningcry.9428:

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

how would you know back at 50 ppl had a clue and new at 100 ppl dont? its a legit question btw i didnt play the game then

In short, it was a whole different landscape.

The barriers to entry were a lot higher – Ascended armor and weapons, along with trinkets had a very limited number of sources; agony infusions did not drop like candy nor was it cheap on the TP. The LFG tool was not robust, and hence many ran in (semi-)static groups. It would be a rare case that anyone would go through the effort to be able to run a 50 if they weren’t at least somewhat dedicated to fractal running. i don’t recall exactly, but i think the requirements for a 49 were lower enough that many stopped advancing there.

The fractal running community was also much, much smaller (NA). There were those in the dungeon/fractal guilds and those regular, lone wolves. Towards the end, there was even a sub-community of 50 sellers.

Fractals themselves were much different. To simply get the daily reward a random set of 4 fractals had to be run in sequence, as opposed to single instances now. So, a group was essentially committed to the process if they wanted the reward.

Few would attempt to try to get carried as it would be painful obvious and nearly impossible to hide inexperience for 4 maps. And no one would hesitate to kick someone that attempted to do so.

If anything, when purely pugging 50s, there was more fear in being kicked at the very end and having your slot either sold or given away than having pugs that didn’t know what to do.

Simply, it was a different time and different community.

Honestly, it’s pretty simple: people don’t admit to being new, because a small part of the community ruined it for you. Sadly, that’s not even the GW2 community, it’s the “plays MMOs” community.

It only takes one or two instances of being abused for being new, and asking, to learn that you should never, under any circumstances, admit to not knowing things. Doesn’t even matter if it was over in WoW, or LoL, or something radically different, that lesson sticks.

Which is why I adopted the approach of: if the mechanic matters, just explain it in one or two sentences. No asking if people are new, no giving a kitten if experienced players know it.

If that kittenes off someone so much they quit the group, that’s probably a rage bullet dodged later anyhow. What it does do is cue the new players without them having to admit to anything.

Mourningcry.9428:

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

One person I know who advertised dungeons back when people still thought they were hard… used to ask a simple math question in their advert. When someone joined the party, the organizer would ask for the answer and kick anyone who didn’t know what the question was.

They weren’t looking for the best players, just for people who paid attention. According to them, their runs were always smooth after that. I imagine it might work the same for T4 fractals… although many of us dislike /kicking anyone without a really solid reason.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

One person I know who advertised dungeons back when people still thought they were hard… used to ask a simple math question in their advert. When someone joined the party, the organizer would ask for the answer and kick anyone who didn’t know what the question was.

They weren’t looking for the best players, just for people who paid attention. According to them, their runs were always smooth after that. I imagine it might work the same for T4 fractals… although many of us dislike /kicking anyone without a really solid reason.

Foo… I was told there would be no math….

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Mourningcry.9428:

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

One person I know who advertised dungeons back when people still thought they were hard… used to ask a simple math question in their advert. When someone joined the party, the organizer would ask for the answer and kick anyone who didn’t know what the question was.

They weren’t looking for the best players, just for people who paid attention. According to them, their runs were always smooth after that. I imagine it might work the same for T4 fractals… although many of us dislike /kicking anyone without a really solid reason.

I ran into something almost but different to that. Theres a guild that does nothing but SW. They advertise, and with the american flag beside it. I think this was last week when i noticed people were speaking Portuguese, and Korean. Asking about legendary spawns in their native languages. Noone replied to them though, since it was an english run guild..lol.

It’s not just new people, people in general seem to completely ignore the chat.
When I ask for strategies, or recommend an approach, I get one reply, and then chaos ensues because there was no communication.

I’m starting to feel like 75% of the playerbase has their chat 24/7 disabled.. and its not just in fractals either..

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Honestly, it’s pretty simple: people don’t admit to being new, because a small part of the community ruined it for you. Sadly, that’s not even the GW2 community, it’s the “plays MMOs” community.

It only takes one or two instances of being abused for being new, and asking, to learn that you should never, under any circumstances, admit to not knowing things. Doesn’t even matter if it was over in WoW, or LoL, or something radically different, that lesson sticks.

Which is why I adopted the approach of: if the mechanic matters, just explain it in one or two sentences. No asking if people are new, no giving a kitten if experienced players know it.

If that kittenes off someone so much they quit the group, that’s probably a rage bullet dodged later anyhow. What it does do is cue the new players without them having to admit to anything.

Pretty much that. When dungeons were popular back in the day, some players started to think they were above everyone else if they could finish idk 10 dungeon paths in one hour. And then started speedrunning and so called elitism and of course, lets not forget pinging gear. So players new to dungeons quickly learned to shut up and be quiet about their lack of time invested in dungeons because otherwise they would be kicked out of party. That spread to fractals.

So, basically players keep their mouths shut about not knowing what to do so they could do it and get to higher lvl fractals – otherwise they will be kicked out of party and not finish the desired fractal. Because there are a few players that rage about everything but majority is nice people with patience to explain something to someone who doesn’t know it.

And also there are always groups on LFG with min AP restrictions. Which is absolutely nuts because AP is nothing more than means to acuire Radiant Armor (or Hellfire if you want). AP is in no way nor it will be in my opinion measure of someone’s skill in this game. You can have at least 7k without touching fractals/dungeons and honestly doing a certain path/fractal a few times you get the idea what you need to do/improve and there’s not much else to learn. Yes, you could go into details to everything but the more you do same things the better you are at them.

chibi.2537:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Honestly, it’s pretty simple: people don’t admit to being new, because a small part of the community ruined it for you. Sadly, that’s not even the GW2 community, it’s the “plays MMOs” community.

It only takes one or two instances of being abused for being new, and asking, to learn that you should never, under any circumstances, admit to not knowing things. Doesn’t even matter if it was over in WoW, or LoL, or something radically different, that lesson sticks.

Which is why I adopted the approach of: if the mechanic matters, just explain it in one or two sentences. No asking if people are new, no giving a kitten if experienced players know it.

If that kittenes off someone so much they quit the group, that’s probably a rage bullet dodged later anyhow. What it does do is cue the new players without them having to admit to anything.

also there are always groups on LFG with min AP restrictions. Which is absolutely nuts because AP is nothing more than means to acuire Radiant Armor (or Hellfire if you want). AP is in no way nor it will be in my opinion measure of someone’s skill in this game. You can have at least 7k without touching fractals/dungeons and honestly doing a certain path/fractal a few times you get the idea what you need to do/improve and there’s not much else to learn. Yes, you could go into details to everything but the more you do same things the better you are at them.

I remember that. I always had low AP because AP arming was quite boring to me. I been playing since launch. Such a dumb way to single out people on a superficial number.

tbh you picked a bad example for moments of explanation. That part is literally four people who say “1”, “2”, “3”, “4” then run together, maybe dodge tentacles a few times, and light their assigned fires.

In general, I agree that new people are often super silent. Just the other day I was doing lowbie fractals for incinerator collection, and had to explain Underground Facility (8) spreading out for buttons and then the 3 lasers at once at the door. I didn’t mind, and was in teaching mood anyway, but yeah, if silent you tend to assume everyone knows and sometimes a bit of disappointment could ensue. I was on my carry class anyway (necro), so nothing really fazed me.

icy.9250:

tbh you picked a bad example for moments of explanation. That part is literally four people who say “1”, “2”, “3”, “4” then run together, maybe dodge tentacles a few times, and light their assigned fires.

Actually, I left that part out, since it needed no explanation on account the only one who called out the numbers were the person who knew what to do and me. I did explain that part, still didn’t help their unwillingness to finish the fractal.

Mourningcry.9428:

zealex.9410:

Mourningcry.9428:

“T1” LFG should have no preconceptions or expectations.

“T4” LFG should have no preconceptions of expectations.

It’s been said countless times, advertise for what you want. Don’t complain if you can’t even be bothered to do that little.

Have run plenty of T4 pugs where it was obvious people had no clue. Didn’t ask for experience, didn’t expect it (is not like pugging a 50 before, where you knew those joining would have a clue).

how would you know back at 50 ppl had a clue and new at 100 ppl dont? its a legit question btw i didnt play the game then

In short, it was a whole different landscape.

The barriers to entry were a lot higher – Ascended armor and weapons, along with trinkets had a very limited number of sources; agony infusions did not drop like candy nor was it cheap on the TP. The LFG tool was not robust, and hence many ran in (semi-)static groups. It would be a rare case that anyone would go through the effort to be able to run a 50 if they weren’t at least somewhat dedicated to fractal running. i don’t recall exactly, but i think the requirements for a 49 were lower enough that many stopped advancing there.

The fractal running community was also much, much smaller (NA). There were those in the dungeon/fractal guilds and those regular, lone wolves. Towards the end, there was even a sub-community of 50 sellers.

Fractals themselves were much different. To simply get the daily reward a random set of 4 fractals had to be run in sequence, as opposed to single instances now. So, a group was essentially committed to the process if they wanted the reward.

Few would attempt to try to get carried as it would be painful obvious and nearly impossible to hide inexperience for 4 maps. And no one would hesitate to kick someone that attempted to do so.

If anything, when purely pugging 50s, there was more fear in being kicked at the very end and having your slot either sold or given away than having pugs that didn’t know what to do.

Simply, it was a different time and different community.

pugs were rarely kick at level 50. Back then, you kinda have to level the fractal one at a time. Odd number fractal did not give any reward. If you made it to 50, you had some ability.

Those who do not speak are:

1. believe that if they admit they are new, they will be kicked — whether that might actually be true or not.
2. Are not paying attention.
3. Don’t speak the language well enough or at all.
4. All of the above.