Guild Wars 2

So, as a n00b, I began running dungeons as the rewards are generally better than other mean of making cash. But even during prime times it is difficult sometimes to get the run you want… and the structure of the game, I think, is to blame. (but to be fair this is in most MMOs)

1. Because dungeon rewards are so much better than anything else by far, peeps want to run it quickly, bypassing 90% of content to get the approx 2G per path on exp mode (ask me for details on the 2G if u don’t believe me, it is surely not 1G as many assert) Attempts to add more mobs to discourage this has only has encouraged this behavior by making certain paths almost impassable without skipping large areas of content. (or maybe this is the design to begin with?)

2. Because of item 1, u basically have to run dungeons with your guild only (non-dix) for multiple runs (per dungeon path) before u can group with others because u will get kicked if u make a minor mistake. (Heaven forbid it takes an extra minute or 2 of someone’s life for an activity which is supposed to be fun? Dam you gave me 2 minutes of extra fun, how dare you!)

3. Because so many dungeons can be run without hitting a single mob other than a boss (try SE path 1 some time), that is how they end up being run (surprised?). This leaves anyone that dies and needs to run back unable to, because of the sheer volume of trash mobs, leaving the main group waiting endlessly to finish although it was clearly the groups fault to begin with, so I’m not sad at all about that. Just sad I waited 10 minutes longer to kill the end boss and get my 2G. (I get the irony!)

4. Because there is no enemy in a dungeon that gives any loot worth caring about (other than boss), players only care about boss loot and apparently this is the design of the game. (if a mob in a dungeon might have a chance of an exo or something I would kill every last one and f* what the group wants to do) This is also the main cause of dungeon “speed runs”, which translates to me, “peeps who can run but can’t fight…”

5. Because dungeons are the only reasonable way to get the hundreds of single items you need for ascended gear, they are pretty much mandatory if you want gear with the best stats which is one primary goal of all MMOs.

I have literally waited for someone to run back and failed 5 times before the group gave up and 4-man’d the boss. . Funny thing was he died 3 feet before the last jump, but noone apparently had the skills to get him rezzed. Because they could not kill a few trash mobs apparently. Unbelievable how short sighted peeps can be.

So what is the net effect? People increasingly don’t care about dungeon content because of all the dooches they will need to deal with. Its as if they forget their own first dungeon run (probably their 1st 50 runs from the lack of skills I have seen in these self-important morons, but that’s a topic for another time)

I don’t know the answers to these issues, just opening this up for a MUCH needed conversation and see if there are any answers other than blocking player after player after player after player etc…. Although blocking is a needed functionality, no doubt. And for those of you who haven’t killed a single dungeon mob since you have been running dungeons here, I will consider myself blocked.

Brut
Lvl 80 Ranger – loves whirlwind/rampage as one, hates running from killable mobs, weak players that can’t kill trash mobs, and crybabies

Make your own group. Write what you want in the description, eg. “AC path 1, everyone welcome, no skiping, no stacking”. You’ll find people in no time.

Just because a majority of players prefer the speedrun/skip version doesn’t mean everyone does.

because mob skipping is the meta.
there is one reason to run all the dungeons

if you want dungeon master title (achievement)

thats why people tend not to run most of them after they finished it.
casual parties don’t have the time to figure the dungeon by themselves and cant find a vet that will explain the dungeons for them because vets don’t run this dungeon

While u can post anything for your group it can also result in waiting an hour for a group. Better to fix the rampant exploits that allow this to continue IMO

Exploit? Which exploit?

And it doesn’t take a hour. Try it yourself.

Molch.2078:

Exploit? Which exploit?

And it doesn’t take a hour. Try it yourself.

For exploits, just look at AC P3. I don’t think the devs intended players to beat the spider queen and the end boss by stacking in a corner and face rolling to stop their. Able damage mechanics from working.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Molch.2078:

Exploit? Which exploit?

And it doesn’t take a hour. Try it yourself.

For exploits, just look at AC P3. I don’t think the devs intended players to beat the spider queen and the end boss by stacking in a corner and face rolling to stop their. Able damage mechanics from working.

Nothing is stopping their mechanics from working with exploits as you clearly think. Players use their knowledge of bosses to kill them faster.
A spider queen’s skill will not be used if all the team is in melee range? cool, let’s melee then, I don’t see any exploit in doing this, as the boss is still able to fight with its melee range abilities.
And for what concerns end boss, it can use all of his skills even in melee range, the corner thing is tied to ele’s FGS, but he could aswell die in like 15-20s in open space.

New day same old crap. Play how you want with a group of like minded people and let other people play how they want.

Talking of kittens you really come off as one.

Hey OP, I see this is your first Guild Wars game! Welcome!

Now stop talking like you know anything about how anything is supposed to be done (“the right way”) because it’s clearly ignorant to anyone who played the first GW, and it makes you appear ill-informed. …Unless that’s the approach you were taking, in which case I will apologize!

Continue on your way and don’t forget to put padded corners on your coffee table.

Molch.2078:

Make your own group. Write what you want in the description, eg. “AC path 1, everyone welcome, no skiping, no stacking”. You’ll find people in no time.

Just because a majority of players prefer the speedrun/skip version doesn’t mean everyone does.

to be fair with the amount of morons who don’t read the lfg descriptions this can be problematic at times.

Wukunlin.8461:

Molch.2078:

Make your own group. Write what you want in the description, eg. “AC path 1, everyone welcome, no skiping, no stacking”. You’ll find people in no time.

Just because a majority of players prefer the speedrun/skip version doesn’t mean everyone does.

to be fair with the amount of morons who don’t read the lfg descriptions this can be problematic at times.

You are referring to the non-English speaker who only recongnize “P1/P2/P3” in the whole sentance? XD

BBMouse.6510:

Wukunlin.8461:

Molch.2078:

Make your own group. Write what you want in the description, eg. “AC path 1, everyone welcome, no skiping, no stacking”. You’ll find people in no time.

Just because a majority of players prefer the speedrun/skip version doesn’t mean everyone does.

to be fair with the amount of morons who don’t read the lfg descriptions this can be problematic at times.

You are referring to the non-English speaker who only recongnize “P1/P2/P3” in the whole sentance? XD

that is what I don’t understand, a lot of them understand english perfectly but they just refuse to read the descriptions and join groups they clearly won’t enjoy playing with

Wukunlin.8461:

Molch.2078:

Make your own group. Write what you want in the description, eg. “AC path 1, everyone welcome, no skiping, no stacking”. You’ll find people in no time.

Just because a majority of players prefer the speedrun/skip version doesn’t mean everyone does.

to be fair with the amount of morons who don’t read the lfg descriptions this can be problematic at times.

No matter what you do in life, there will always be a moron making things problematic.

I guess we were overdue for another thread like this

To the OP, you’ve brought a lot of problems to the forum but no solutions. Are you suggesting ideas for better dungeon design? Are you telling players to play more slowly for the same rewards? Are you suggesting better loot balancing for dungeons?

The recent living story dungeons have seen very little skipping so the designers are probably making it harder. There have been fewer exploits too although there probably will be some if the players take time to find them. Are the designers going to back to the old paths and fix them up? They will probably do some occasional exploit fixing but it is just too big a task to completely restructure all the dungeons.

Nike said this awhile ago but… if stacking is the new ta f/u, will anet replace all corners with aetherblade strikers?
Something to think about.

Oxxy.7068:

Nike said this awhile ago but… if stacking is the new ta f/u, will anet replace all corners with aetherblade strikers?
Something to think about.

Dredge. Dredge, my dear. Dredge alllll the way up.

Only if they come in clown cars.

Yeah. Just got the dredge fractal earlier, had to 3man most of it and it wasn’t fun.
Anyway, I shall now proceed to type something along the line of [sarcastic comment about how los’ing and overall using your brain to fight foes isn’t an exploit] and [do you know dungeons weren’t meant for everyone in the first place but everyone acts as if they are? and there goes the "zones for organised groups"] and [another comment of your choice about these reocurring threads].

Brutaxia.5098:

Brut
Lvl 80 Ranger – loves whirlwind/rampage as one, hates running from killable mobs, weak players that can’t kill trash mobs, and crybabies

Found your problem.

Brutaxia.5098:

Brut
Lvl 80 Ranger – loves whirlwind/rampage as one, hates running from killable mobs, weak players that can’t kill trash mobs, and crybabies

I hope you love your dreamer as well.

Make your own dungeon team, post your own LFG.

“It was intended all along” seems like a really really weak counter to plain bad design. WoW’s dungeons didn’t feel like a chore and did not let you skip. They also had better gimmicks than just “make a wrong jump and you die”.

1. If you are getting kicked for being new, it’s very likely your own fault for joining and exp group and/or not being up front about the fact that you are new. I was never once kicked from a dungeon when going for my DM title, and that’s mostly due to the fact that I was careful about the groups that I joined and made sure I said at the get-go that it was my first time.

2. If you don’t make the skip, ask politely if someone will run with you. If you’ve already told them you’re new and they’ve allowed you to stay, chances are there will be at least one person who will help you through.

3. Keep in mind that having an experienced player take you through is a favor, not a requirement. It’s very possible for a group of 5 new players to make it through any of the dungeons, especially now with all the guides out there. Since you are asking a random stranger for a favor, you should follow his lead and keep questions to a minimum. If you don’t like following, the start the group yourself and lead.

Arimahn.3568:

“It was intended all along” seems like a really really weak counter to plain bad design. WoW’s dungeons didn’t feel like a chore and did not let you skip. They also had better gimmicks than just “make a wrong jump and you die”.

Care to explain that jumping part? The only places that jumping is a must are harpy fractals and that aether blade instance where we had to jump the lasers while fighting some asura boss.

anabasis.7346:

swiftpaw.6397:

Brutaxia.5098:

Brut
Lvl 80 Ranger – loves whirlwind/rampage as one, hates running from killable mobs, weak players that can’t kill trash mobs, and crybabies

Found your problem.

It gets even scarier if you take a look at his posts.

Brutaxia.5098:

I think ranger gives a lot of solo options if set up properly. I usually use bears for their toughness, and I generally can walk into a situation without worrying about the number of mobs. I do need to move quite a bit to stay alive and thin the numbers, but it still takes less than 1-2 minutes to clear 6 or 7 mobs even if there is a veteran (killing the adds first of course). The other advantage is not having to stress about adds. Plus I have solo’d several champions as a ranger, since my pets are so tough, just takes a bit longer than I have have patience for sometimes Champion rewards should scale if you solo it, yes this is primarily a group game, but I don’t always have time to play when my friends do.

Regardless, the key advantage to a ranger is to be a heartless b**ch and leave your pet to take the heat and aggro the mobs while you save your own kitten and run like hell. Also helps when you have a tough fight to snag a skill point or similar for map completion. Saved me from a few champion encounters where I realized there was no chance with the setup I had at the moment and, in each case, my pet died for me to live on R.I.P Fido!!!

Mother of all things sacred.

swiftpaw.6397:

anabasis.7346:

swiftpaw.6397:

Brutaxia.5098:

Brut
Lvl 80 Ranger – loves whirlwind/rampage as one, hates running from killable mobs, weak players that can’t kill trash mobs, and crybabies

Found your problem.

It gets even scarier if you take a look at his posts.

Brutaxia.5098:

I think ranger gives a lot of solo options if set up properly. I usually use bears for their toughness, and I generally can walk into a situation without worrying about the number of mobs. I do need to move quite a bit to stay alive and thin the numbers, but it still takes less than 1-2 minutes to clear 6 or 7 mobs even if there is a veteran (killing the adds first of course). The other advantage is not having to stress about adds. Plus I have solo’d several champions as a ranger, since my pets are so tough, just takes a bit longer than I have have patience for sometimes Champion rewards should scale if you solo it, yes this is primarily a group game, but I don’t always have time to play when my friends do.

Regardless, the key advantage to a ranger is to be a heartless b**ch and leave your pet to take the heat and aggro the mobs while you save your own kitten and run like hell. Also helps when you have a tough fight to snag a skill point or similar for map completion. Saved me from a few champion encounters where I realized there was no chance with the setup I had at the moment and, in each case, my pet died for me to live on R.I.P Fido!!!

Mother of all things sacred.

My time has come

Oxxy.7068:

Arimahn.3568:

“It was intended all along” seems like a really really weak counter to plain bad design. WoW’s dungeons didn’t feel like a chore and did not let you skip. They also had better gimmicks than just “make a wrong jump and you die”.

Care to explain that jumping part? The only places that jumping is a must are harpy fractals and that aether blade instance where we had to jump the lasers while fighting some asura boss.

One of the CE paths – can’t remember which one right now – with the jumping-through-electricity. Neat on paper, horrible in any PUG, stops the momentum of the entire group dead.

You maybe mean CoE, which has lasers in all the 3 paths (common route up there)?

swiftpaw.6397:

anabasis.7346:

swiftpaw.6397:

Brutaxia.5098:

Brut
Lvl 80 Ranger – loves whirlwind/rampage as one, hates running from killable mobs, weak players that can’t kill trash mobs, and crybabies

Found your problem.

It gets even scarier if you take a look at his posts.

Brutaxia.5098:

I think ranger gives a lot of solo options if set up properly. I usually use bears for their toughness, and I generally can walk into a situation without worrying about the number of mobs. I do need to move quite a bit to stay alive and thin the numbers, but it still takes less than 1-2 minutes to clear 6 or 7 mobs even if there is a veteran (killing the adds first of course). The other advantage is not having to stress about adds. Plus I have solo’d several champions as a ranger, since my pets are so tough, just takes a bit longer than I have have patience for sometimes Champion rewards should scale if you solo it, yes this is primarily a group game, but I don’t always have time to play when my friends do.

Regardless, the key advantage to a ranger is to be a heartless b**ch and leave your pet to take the heat and aggro the mobs while you save your own kitten and run like hell. Also helps when you have a tough fight to snag a skill point or similar for map completion. Saved me from a few champion encounters where I realized there was no chance with the setup I had at the moment and, in each case, my pet died for me to live on R.I.P Fido!!!

Mother of all things sacred.

I groaned irl.
… And the laser jumping part in CoE is too hard for everyone, too hard for casuals and ruins the fun, they should remove all these cheap lazy mechanics, I mean, too many oneshot mechanics in this game, no tells, no way to see it coming, things are too punishing, you die if you make even the slightest mistake, this isn’t Super Mario, I want to fight every single mob as it was meant to be and not jump on things, I don’t want to exploit by jumping over the lasers because it was clearly meant to rush through them…
Did I forget something, by chance. I feel like there’s more, even more to it.

Ohhh ohhh if only.

just my 2 cent

when doing a dungeon i dont know yet i look for group who have not “experienced” “rush” etc written in the title, and say “its my first time are you ok with that?”

i was never told that its not ok and no one complained ever when i died then, usually i even get some nice explanations on the way on what to avoid.

If i would get told that its a problem i rather leave and find another group in 3 minutes instead of running with that group and getting complained at.

on the other hand around, when doing dungeons which i have already run dozen times and which i know really well i usually either join a random group which is already up, and if we have someone in there who says he is new i advise him on everything and would only think of kicking him if he repeatably fails encounters by not following advise (like killing oozes in TA path even when we explain 3x for 5 minutes how it works)or dying on every trash mob 3 times

when i search for my own group i usually type stuff like “p1 rush experiemented 80s pls” and i get really annoyed when i then see some 400 ap player joining who when asked will tell you its his first time, or lie about it and run out of spider melee range suddendly etc.
same with then asking “what path is this?” “what path 1? but i need path3”
I think its common courtesy to read the description and join a group which is fitting .

so to sum it up, if you are joining an experienced group without beeing experienced your simply in the wrong place

“3. Because so many dungeons can be run without hitting a single mob other than a boss (try SE path 1 some time), that is how they end up being run (surprised?). This leaves anyone that dies and needs to run back unable to, because of the sheer volume of trash mobs, leaving the main group waiting endlessly to finish although it was clearly the groups fault to begin with, so I’m not sad at all about that. Just sad I waited 10 minutes longer to kill the end boss and get my 2G. (I get the irony!)”

yeah its clearly the groups fault if you dont have the necessary skill to run a skip part without dying, the whole group should just kill every mob out of the way so you dont have to learn how to skip.

seriously how egocentric can one be, i cant count how often i ported back multiple times in ta to force feed some guardian through a skip part
after pulling 1 group out of his way
skipping him 2nd with veil
then mass invisibility
then him getting owned 5 times in row by last group because he just doesnt pop stabililty or uses dodges…. there is only so much you can do to carry bad players

There are many times in life when you think you know some particular thing. But you actually don’t. What results is a gulf between what you know, and what you think you know. This gulf becomes a trap: a trap you can fall into and make yourself look ridiculous in a spectacularly public fashion. The OP has fallen into a very wide gulf.

AndrewSX.3794:

You maybe mean CoE, which has lasers in all the 3 paths (common route up there)?

I think he means SE P2, last bosses, but it is hard to say. Not sure what jumping has to do with’em tho, i just remember having an awful time at melee range, no jumps.

I blame this website and the lack of a search function for posts that seem the same week after week.
They should probably sticky this thread – then the ‘I got kicked out of a dungeon’ – then the ‘did they stealth ecto rate on salavge’… ect ect ect

10/10. Would read again.

aww my post got deleted even though it was along the same lines as the OP

Running a dungeon does not mean the players can’t fight. If anything, dungeon runners are more competent then the casual player since they have mastered the methods of defeating bosses quickly, therefor, putting money in the bank quicker for you. You should be thanking those players for putting in the time and effort that you didn’t. I pug all my runs and only a small number of those runs a week will be problematic due to players not understanding the run or poor builds. Dungeon running is not the best way to make gold. I think its the boss zergs found in meta that is more profitable but boring too. As for rezzing a runner that is downed, sometimes its best to let the person sit until you kill the boss up ahead so they get a new spawn point. This saves time and the player saves face in case they fail at running alone to catch up. Just from reading your complaints it tells me that you just need more experience. If your hell bent on killing everything in the dungeon, nobody is stopping you.

He/she admitted he/she is new, no need to abuse the OP, especially for being a casual as if that was bad and evil (gosh that is so short-sighted and so common in this forum.)

As for the OP: you can still play the way you prefer, just make your own groups clarifying that you won’t be skipping stuff, because if you don’t state anything, people will assume it will be “semi-fast”, and of course avoid any groups that say speedrun if that’s a playstyle you don’t enjoy.

Star Ace.5207:

He/she admitted he/she is new, no need to abuse the OP, especially for being a casual as if that was bad and evil (gosh that is so short-sighted and so common in this forum.)

Being casual and stubborn are completely different things.

I have to agree with Oxxy, if your a new player as posted then why belittle the play style of the majority of GW 2 players?

zerotwo.4731:

I have to agree with Oxxy, if your a new player as posted then why belittle the play style of the majority of GW 2 players?

Because it runs counter to what you’d expect from a dungeon run in an MMO. Slow and methodical versus ololol zerkr only rush. People actually USED to play it slow but eventually everyone realized how horrible most dungeons were and started skipping, or ignoring everything but CoF1.

Avoiding trash mobs is a normal step. Why bother with them. I do not understand why anyone would want to kill everything in a dungeon when its not necessary. Here is an example: At lvl 48 fractal you can’t kill everything. On the ice fractal while you have the bonfire burning I have yet to see a crew kill everything that spawns. The purpose of it is to avoid the damage but keep the fire burning. As I see it, this can also be applied to running in dungeons. If I want to get from point A to point B with a minimum amount of risk and casualties then why would I not run past an enemy when I have the option to. To me the fun comes from completing a “run” with no hiccups. Doing that in pug groups is even more enjoyable and allows you to friend for additional “runs”.

Arimahn.3568:

zerotwo.4731:

I have to agree with Oxxy, if your a new player as posted then why belittle the play style of the majority of GW 2 players?

Because it runs counter to what you’d expect from a dungeon run in an MMO. Slow and methodical versus ololol zerkr only rush. People actually USED to play it slow but eventually everyone realized how horrible most dungeons were and started skipping, or ignoring everything but CoF1.

I used to play other games as well, what a shocker, anyways, do you know why i never really bothered with pve till gw2? Because every single dungeon had a 40mins~1 hour lenght in general, meanwhile here at gw2 the average dungeon path is something around 15 minutes long. You don’t like fast dungeons? Fine, go and post your own killing everything group, but then you’ll realize you’re only a very vocal minority, and nobody is actually joining your group.

Oxxy.7068:

Arimahn.3568:

zerotwo.4731:

I have to agree with Oxxy, if your a new player as posted then why belittle the play style of the majority of GW 2 players?

Because it runs counter to what you’d expect from a dungeon run in an MMO. Slow and methodical versus ololol zerkr only rush. People actually USED to play it slow but eventually everyone realized how horrible most dungeons were and started skipping, or ignoring everything but CoF1.

I used to play other games as well, what a shocker, anyways, do you know why i never really bothered with pve till gw2? Because every single dungeon had a 40mins~1 hour lenght in general, meanwhile here at gw2 the average dungeon path is something around 15 minutes long. You don’t like fast dungeons? Fine, go and post your own killing everything group, but then you’ll realize you’re only a very vocal minority, and nobody is actually joining your group.

Gee, I wonder why people pick the fast option when given the choice? Maybe because the time/effort/reward balance is out of whack for most paths?!

Skipping hints at bad design. Take away the superficial mobs or make it impossible, but don’t be lazy about it and just tell people that it’s intended.

Having long dungeon paths is not good design. You alienate players with less play time. Which is why the dungeon lengths in gw2 are pretty good. And skipping is intended, they could of easily made it impossible to skip but they havent. They did actually increase the leash range in arah several months back to make it slightly harder to skip (they could of just made it infinite). The option to skip mobs promotes variety; clear mobs, run past mobs with brute force or stealth past. Being forced to take a thief or clearing every mob group is not good design.

I kinda agree with OP…

Since i started playing dungeons, all i ever do is run to the boss…
It’s ok, and i get why people do it.
Playing one, 1 hour dungeon for 20 of something that you need 3000 of is not fun.
I’d like to actually play the whole dungeon every now and then… Just for fun, but speedruns are more efficient.

Yes, if you die, you have to run back throught the mobs, but that’s not really that much of a problem most of the times. Also, you can’t respawn if others are in combat which is 90% of the time, so you have to wait. That encourages resurrecting others and playing with skill. Also, some cash shop items. :P

Also, enemies in dungeons go dive loot (if i’m not mistaken). It’s just that they’re really hard and not worth the effort most of the times.

All in all, dingeons are the way they are, probably for a reason.
It gives you options.

Bash everyone / run to the boss / do things that interest you and bypass the rest…

It all comes down to finding a group of people that want to do what you want. And there’s a nifty new LFG option that allows you to do just that.

EDIT:

Also, OP, i don’t know who you played with, but i never got kicked out of a dungeon for being a newb or dying. o.O You just wait it out, join them later, whatever, no one cares. Of course there are some HC players out there that would do that but those usually form their own guild parties and don’t invite random people.

spoj.9672:

Having long dungeon paths is not good design. You alienate players with less play time. Which is why the dungeon lengths in gw2 are pretty good. And skipping is intended, they could of easily made it impossible to skip but they havent. They did actually increase the leash range in arah several months back to make it slightly harder to skip (they could of just made it infinite). The option to skip mobs promotes variety; clear mobs, run past mobs with brute force or stealth past. Being forced to take a thief or clearing every mob group is not good design.

What they need is a good incentive so there is a literal choice on skip or kill. Sure some paths like arah 3 have champ loot options, but that doesn’t help with any of the masses of silvers.

Now if say every silver mob dropped, say 2 silver, not only does %gold find become a meaningful stat again, but there is an incentive to clear trash (would also take out some of the disappointment when fractal 40+ runs hit dredge).

The problem is people might farm the start of dungeons repeatedly with that kind of incentive.

Actually , the only thing wrong with dungeons is the complete lack of solo mode.

I find myself needing 500 of a dungeon token to complete my legendary- but having never done that dungeon before, I don’t want to be dragging the rest of the group down and so I find myself avoiding doing it at all….