Guild Wars 2

AreaNet can you please do something about this. I have noticed now that every dungeon i do everyone is wanting to run past everything until they reach the boss. Take Arah the last dungeon and the way i view it is meant to be the hardest(correct me if im wrong). Instead of doing the dungeon the way it was built for everyone wants to run past everything which most of the time ends up with people dieing/team wipe and having to start again.

My point is this way is taking any pleasure i/you have out of playing the game for what it is and just making it a farm fest for dungeons.

agree or disagree?

Simple, if you want to kill everything just make your own lfg that states “killing everything”. Obviously you’re not alone in this sentiment as people often post this here.

Heck, you guys should just start a “kill all the things” guild.

Make your own groups, with people that want to play in a way similar to what you want to play. As many people as there are that skip mobs, there are plenty that like to make threads talking about why this is such a big problem. Suggestion:

Make a thread like what is currently floating around for people to do Arah. Have people post their Characters, how they like to take time killing mobs, whatever the case may be. Turn that thread into a guild. Make an NA and EU branch. All of that would benefit you and the rest of the people that want to play how you are describing much more than posting threads about how you don’t like mob skippers. If I come off as mean or mad, that’s not my goal. I’m just trying to offer a solution so maybe people like yourself can start enjoying content more and not have to put up with headaches.

People who agree with you will do so because clearing everything everytime is what they consider fun. People who disagree with you will do so because quickly completing a dungeon for the reward is what they consider fun. Neither is correct/wrong. It’s just a difference in opinion (pie> cake). Stating that a dungeon was built to be run a certain way is correct only if all other ways are exploits. Having the ability to run through mobs which were designed to leash after a certain distance is not an exploit. To make sure you get a party you enjoy always list what you want through whatever lfg tool you are using. May take longer but you will find like minded people.
Thank you.

Killing the arah trash generally results in more wipes than skipping.

Kill All Things Guild

Thank you, laharl.

Third post about the same topic. Trash have many HP, 0 strategy and the worst loot in the game, so why kill it?

Third post about the same topic. Trash have many HP, 0 strategy and the worst loot in the game, so why kill it?

Is that rhetorical, or do you actually want to know?

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

If you are planning to make a thread like this in the future…

1. stop and think about it.

2. think about it a second time carefully

3. and then don’t post it.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Third post about the same topic. Trash have many HP, 0 strategy and the worst loot in the game, so why kill it?

Is that rhetorical, or do you actually want to know?

Just rhetorical

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

If you are planning to make a thread like this in the future…

1. stop and think about it.

2. think about it a second time carefully

3. and then don’t post it.

This so many times. As people have said probably a thousand times on these threads it is personal preference whether to kill or skip. Most people now run dungeons for the rewards so there is very little, if any, point to kill trash. Hence why so many people skip today. As long as the trash has so much health and gives terrible loot the general populace will skip them.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

If you are planning to make a thread like this in the future…

1. stop and think about it.

2. think about it a second time carefully

3. and then don’t post it.

Agree with this. ^

If you want to kill make your own group then you can call the shots.
In a group, party leader or majority vote is usually the one to be followed.

We run multiple dungeons multiple times a day, time and efficiency is important to many players. Don’t tell us how to play the game.

If you can’t find people that want to play the way you do then that’s not our problem.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

Now hang on just a second. Different players have been posting about this for a long time now, and for a good reason. There clearly is an issue with the dungeons. The design team even admitted to this, and promised to address this issue when they released the Molten Facility mini dungeon.

So why would players not be allowed to post about it? Last time I checked, people were still skipping through dungeons. And my experiences in that regard have been quite miserable.

The real issue here, is that there really isn’t a good reason NOT to skip enemies. The rewards are very poor, even with magic find. And the fights are not a whole lot of fun, or challenging. Many foes in these dungeons have way too much health as well, so it all boils down to risk vs reward vs time wasted. And in that regard, the dungeons are not well balanced. There is nothing in dungeons to encourage players to actually kill the monsters that were put there to be killed.

Now one solution to this would be to add simple roadblocks, like a door, or a pressure plate. That would force players to stop and kill monsters more often. But it still wouldn’t make them want to fight the monsters. Now if each monster had a decent chance to drop rare items, this would be a whole different matter. But there would also need to be something to encourage players from not just farming the first mob at the start of the dungeon endlessly. Unique items added to the end chest, with unique skins, and a higher chance to get a precursor from it, would certainly make for a good encouragement.

But then you run into yet another problem. And that’s the fact that some dungeons are easier and faster than others. The player wants to waste as little time as possible. Because the shorter a run, the more often you can do that same run again for more loot. This is again the issue of risk vs reward vs time wasted.

You can skip mobs in other games aswell. Dont see why people are so hell bent on stopping us from skipping stuff that we dont need to kill.

Bread.7516:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

If you are planning to make a thread like this in the future…

1. stop and think about it.

2. think about it a second time carefully

3. and then don’t post it.

Agree with this. ^

If you want to kill make your own group then you can call the shots.
In a group, party leader or majority vote is usually the one to be followed.

We run multiple dungeons multiple times a day, time and efficiency is important to many players. Don’t tell us how to play the game.

If you can’t find people that want to play the way you do then that’s not our problem.

I used to want to kill everything.. 3000+ hours later, not my thing. I make my groups and we skip. Only ever had one person complain and he insisted on trying to kill the mobs by himself until we kicked him.

There’s one thing I still really want to kill everytime, and that’s lieutenant Kohler in AC, I believe he’s worth killing, and not hard to do so. But the majority of pugs will skip it. I Dont kick up a hissy fit, I go with what the majority wants. If I want kohler, I make my own group, and I specify that I’m killing Kohler. That’s how it works.

spoj.9672:

You can skip mobs in other games aswell. Dont see why people are so hell bent on stopping us from skipping stuff that we dont need to kill.

That’s a pretty ignorant way to simplify this matter.

The enemies in this game are meant to be killed. The whole purpose of a dungeon, is that you fight your way to the end… and not skip your way to the end. And fighting enemies is supposed to be fun. That is what the game is about.

So this isn’t a matter of players wanting to stop you from skipping things. But it’s about changing the thing that encourages skipping in the first place: “Enemies are a waste of time”

Many of us want enemies to not be a waste of time. We want them to be fun, action packed encounters with proper rewards that validate wanting to kill them. In GW1 there was an elite area called the Fissure of Woe, and people would kill most of the enemies, simply because of the loot. And it was a lot of fun. GW2’s dungeons could also be this rewarding.

why skip you ask? because they are not worth my time. I run a dungeon for money, token, or fun. Kill trash mobs doesn’t give me ANY of those.

as for people wiping when skipping, you can say the same thing about people who wipe when killing trash. If you they are that bad then they are gonna wipe at one stage or another.

Having said all that. If there is more than 1 person in the group who isn’t familiar with the dungeon, ie doesn’t know where to run and where to hide and when to use their dodges, they should probably find groups that doesn’t skip until they are comfortable enough to run past those mobs. But when you have done the same paths enough times to know the encounters like the back of your hand, I honestly don’t see what people will want to fight trash mobs.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

spoj.9672:

You can skip mobs in other games aswell. Dont see why people are so hell bent on stopping us from skipping stuff that we dont need to kill.

That’s a pretty ignorant way to simplify this matter.

The enemies in this game are meant to be killed. The whole purpose of a dungeon, is that you fight your way to the end… and not skip your way to the end. And fighting enemies is supposed to be fun. That is what the game is about.

So this isn’t a matter of players wanting to stop you from skipping things. But it’s about changing the thing that encourages skipping in the first place: “Enemies are a waste of time”

Many of us want enemies to not be a waste of time. We want them to be fun, action packed encounters with proper rewards that validate wanting to kill them. In GW1 there was an elite area called the Fissure of Woe, and people would kill most of the enemies, simply because of the loot. And it was a lot of fun. GW2’s dungeons could also be this rewarding.

They are “meant to be killed” in other games aswell, doesnt stop people and im pretty sure much less people complain. People run dungeons for the tokens and the chests. People would kill everything if there wasnt guaranteed tokens and chests and it was just good loot on everything. Its too late to revamp that now. But tbh id rather have the option to speed run through things. I never had the time to run FoW or UW much back when i played gw1 which was pretty frustrating.

spoj.9672:

They are “meant to be killed” in other games aswell, doesnt stop people and im pretty sure much less people complain.

What games are you talking about?

spoj.9672:

People run dungeons for the tokens and the chests. People would kill everything if there wasnt guaranteed tokens and chests and it was just good loot on everything.

Yes they would indeed. In fact, I think people would kill everything if the rewards were good, AND there were guaranteed tokens at the end. What’s your point?

spoj.9672:

Its too late to revamp that now.

No it’s not. They recently changed Ascalon Catacombs didn’t they? It’s just a matter of changing the loot tables. They could do that right now.

spoj.9672:

But tbh id rather have the option to speed run through things.

That’s because the dungeons are unrewarding and not any fun. I’m suggesting that they change exactly that. I want them to change the thing that makes people want to skip the content.

spoj.9672:

I never had the time to run FoW or UW much back when i played gw1 which was pretty frustrating.

Both FoW and UW were very long runs. But you could easily do FoW with heroes today.

Yeah, uw was very long with 20 minute casuals and fow with 7-10 min too.

Dying in general in GW1 had bigger consequences(without consumables) than in GW2. For FoW and UW in particular dying/party wipe at the wrong time could mean total failure and everyone gets kicked out. There is no such risk in GW2. Shards and ectos were also good motivators for killing everything in those places since you couldn’t get them anywhere else. You can get those everywhere in GW2.

Dub.1273:

Yeah, uw was very long with 20 minute casuals and fow with 7-10 min too.

UW was not done in 20 min by casuals. Ever.

It may have been pugged by people who had EXPERIENCE running it and had practiced their builds, but that is not casual. Pugging does not mean casual.

It’s not called “trash” for no reason. There’s plenty of people out there who will group with you to eradicate all life in a given dungeon. Some of us simply don’t have the time anymore to do all fights and kill all the trash. You enjoy fighting everything, some of us enjoy being able to get several dungeons done in what little play time we may have. For me, I work and have a family, so I don’t want to spend my whole play period in one dungeon fighting useless/worthless trash enemies I can fight out in the world on my own.

Zenith.7301:

Dub.1273:

Yeah, uw was very long with 20 minute casuals and fow with 7-10 min too.

UW was not done in 20 min by casuals. Ever.

It may have been pugged by people who had EXPERIENCE running it and had practiced their builds, but that is not casual. Pugging does not mean casual.

Hi. Put together a group of experienced uwsc players who aren’t pushing for a record and you’ve got a casual run. And casual runs have been done in well under 20 mins by multiple different groups of people. Thank you and have a wonderful day

Also, I find it a funny coincidence that all these anti-skippers never check if there is an existing post on their exact topic. Life is weird that way i guess

One last thing, to all of us who defend skipping, we should just stop posting in these threads, let them go untouched and drift away and be forgotten. I doubt it will make them stop posting this exact same thread 100 times a week but it would certainly make it seem like less of an issue if we just ignored them altogether.

Zenith.7301:

Dub.1273:

Yeah, uw was very long with 20 minute casuals and fow with 7-10 min too.

UW was not done in 20 min by casuals. Ever.

Wut? Did you play before October 2009? Because back then, UW was done in <10mins by casuals, just saying. And by the end of the game, UW was usually done in 18-25mins by the good guilds. Although <20’s were rather uncommon.

Dub.1273:

Yeah, uw was very long with 20 minute casuals and fow with 7-10 min too.

Dub, you need to understand that you didn’t play when those area’s released. UW wasn’t even COMPLETED for the longest time. FoW was tackled pretty fast, but it took a while (don’t ask me how long, I wasn’t there) before people eventually were able to complete UW.

Also, 7min casual FoW, what are you, high? 9min casuals were not uncommon for guilds like Zraw in the heydays (I’ve done 9min FoW’s with Zraw), but seeing how 7min was the world record, I highly doubt they were done as casual runs.

Most PUG FoW’s took ~20-30mins, longer if someone screwed up. And decent guild FoW’s took 10-15mins.

Zenith.7301:

Dub.1273:

Yeah, uw was very long with 20 minute casuals and fow with 7-10 min too.

UW was not done in 20 min by casuals. Ever.

It may have been pugged by people who had EXPERIENCE running it and had practiced their builds, but that is not casual. Pugging does not mean casual.

But our guild casuals in the time we had no speedteam were all about 16-17 minutes.

@Bright: the word casual was related to 20 min uw runs. And 20 min IS a casual uw time. The slowest area had 14-16 minutes to finish and our usual time was 10 min as duo’s which often was slowest area (without using gaki). I didn’t do much fow tbh but t6way was easy 10 mins. Can’t be compared to pugs who were using t2-3way, though.

It’s the same like arah now, our duo runs usualy take 15-20 minutes for path 2 or 3. 5 men experienced pugs usualy need twice as long. Still 20 minute is a casual time for us.

Dub.1273:

But our guild casuals in the time we had no speedteam were all about 16-17 minutes.

@Bright: the word casual was related to 20 min uw runs. And 20 min IS a casual uw time. The slowest area had 14-16 minutes to finish and our usual time was 10 min as duo’s which often was slowest area (without using gaki). I didn’t do much fow tbh but t6way was easy 10 mins. Can’t be compared to pugs who were using t2-3way, though.

It’s the same like arah now, our duo runs usualy take 15-20 minutes for path 2 or 3. 5 men experienced pugs usualy need twice as long. Still 20 minute is a casual time for us.

Don’t ask me about UW too much, since I hardly ever did it. I didn’t like the area that much. DoA > all. I loved DoA so much… Oh, nostalgia…

Anyhow, <20min casual runs were mostly only for the really good guilds. NAME when they were good, DL before they started becoming terrible, Zraw, some of the French/German guilds etc. Most UW guilds barely got below 25mins with their core team.

Also, do you skip Lupi on those p2 runs or not? Because 15min duo’s would be really impressive without skipping certain parts. 20min duo p3 is impressive as well, but p2 has more bosses and more running.

The thing is i didnt have experience in either UW or FoW. And because i didnt have the time to learn. I never gained the experience. I did a bit of UW duo farming with a 55hp monk (SS necro) but that was about it. The FoW pug i remember attempting took ages to not really do much. Then people had to leave after about 30 mins. Never finished it so i dont actually know how far we got into it. I was more of a casual pvp gw1 player with the occasional solo farming.

Zraw has never been experienced in uw. DS has never been experienced in DoA.
NAME has been formed out of DL before they completely fell appart.
I cant tell much about NAME casuals anyway because the only runs i did with them were some DS+NAME mixes.

We usually do not skip Lupicus, for our 12 minute duo we did, tho. He usually doesn’t take more than 5 minutes (including turrets and abominations).

Dub.1273:

Zraw has never been experienced in uw.

What? Most people in Zraw weren’t, I have to admit, but their core was insane. Rick was hands down one of the best UW players in the game. Oh, and did I mention they still hold the 14min record? Yes, it involved a glitch, but a record is a record. The glitch had been known for long enough for people to use it as well to get a record. NAME felt too good to do it and got a big heap of sand in their vajeyjeys when Zraw came with the 14min. I don’t remember how you guys reacted though.

DS has never been experienced in DoA.

I know this. I once tanked a run with DS. That was a pretty funny run.

NAME has been formed out of DL before they completely fell appart.

Actually, DL fell apart quite a while after NAME formed. They survived on their reputation for a while, but their UW runs sucked after that. After that, they died a really slow death, but even when NAME formed, there were still some competent players in DL, so they still did UW. Their DoA runs were trash though. After a couple 50min+ runs with them, I refused to go unless they let me tank.

We usually do not skip Lupicus, for our 12 minute duo we did, tho. He usually doesn’t take more than 5 minutes (including turrets and abominations).

I knew it Still an impressive time though. Especially seeing how one of you probably solo’ed the abomination for that run. Either that, or solo’ed the first boss and duo’ed the abomination.

Ricks ranger looked like a banana.

We didn’t split in that run, it was still a casual and we just took our time for fun.
Could probably get to 10 min with splitting for alphard.

Too bad it’s impossible now to try and get that 13min…

Anet, fixing that which ain’t broke since 2005… Okay, rezscrolls were broken, but necrotic traversal really wasn’t…

Duping is still broken in gw1. After the 14 men we found a possibility to 259men if i remember right) btw. Not that we ever did such a run…

Dub.1273:

Duping is still broken in gw1. After the 14 men we found a possibility to 259men if i remember right) btw. Not that we ever did such a run…

What? We tried a lot of stuff with that glitch, but we couldn’t get passed 20man teams.

Also, 259? Unless you found an entirely different way to do that glitch, I don’t think that would be realistic. Even if you could get 8 people to bring 6 heroes, you’d still only have a 56man party.

I knew duping was still broken, but I never found out how to do it. A friend of mine accidentally duped some of his weapons when trading across accounts, but he never figured out how he did it. So, he just had the one accidental dupe..

Know how to crash servers? That way did duping work (and theoretically still does).

I think it was 256 btw. By changing areas and dc’ing over and ovdr again the current party size was “1/8” even if already 7 players have been in. Just at 256 something crashed.

Bread.7516:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

If you are planning to make a thread like this in the future…

1. stop and think about it.

2. think about it a second time carefully

3. and then don’t post it.

Agree with this. ^

If you want to kill make your own group then you can call the shots.
In a group, party leader or majority vote is usually the one to be followed.

We run multiple dungeons multiple times a day, time and efficiency is important to many players. Don’t tell us how to play the game.

If you can’t find people that want to play the way you do then that’s not our problem.

Why is it everyone else’s problem when people make a group but don’t specify speed run yet force the group to skip content despite never mentioning it when forming the group? The people who make these posts aren’t joining speed run groups, they are joining normal groups and are being forced to skip content despite having no desire to participate in a speed run.

If you want a speed run, label your group as such. Leave everyone else alone.

Dub.1273:

Know how to crash servers? That way did duping work (and theoretically still does).

I think it was 256 btw. By changing areas and dc’ing over and ovdr again the current party size was “1/8” even if already 7 players have been in. Just at 256 something crashed.

The original dupe worked differently. You had to trade with someone in an explorable area, put up your item and accept. Then, dc yourself. After you dc’ed the person had to accept the trade, and when you logged back on, you both had the item in your inventory.

You crashed at 256 because 255 is the biggest number that you can store on 1 bit. That’s also why stacks are 250. It seems like an arbitrary number, but that way they can store every stack in game on 1 bit.

Funny how that works. That means that in GW1, the party size was stored on a single bit. That’s pretty interesting.

The original hero bug got fixed though, I tested it quite extensively. Funny that you can still do it.

I love how we completely derailed this thread though. But then again, no one cared about yet another “WAAAA, people skip mobs, NURF PL0x Anet, they’re meanies!” thread.

Shiren.9532:

Bread.7516:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Make it stop. Make the endless flood of threads about killing trash mobs stop please. These threads were dumb in November, and haven’t gotten any less pointless in June.

If you are planning to make a thread like this in the future…

1. stop and think about it.

2. think about it a second time carefully

3. and then don’t post it.

Agree with this. ^

If you want to kill make your own group then you can call the shots.
In a group, party leader or majority vote is usually the one to be followed.

We run multiple dungeons multiple times a day, time and efficiency is important to many players. Don’t tell us how to play the game.

If you can’t find people that want to play the way you do then that’s not our problem.

Why is it everyone else’s problem when people make a group but don’t specify speed run yet force the group to skip content despite never mentioning it when forming the group? The people who make these posts aren’t joining speed run groups, they are joining normal groups and are being forced to skip content despite having no desire to participate in a speed run.

If you want a speed run, label your group as such. Leave everyone else alone.

I could ask the same question back to you and suggest the same.

you ask why? i answer “it’s the norm”.
the norm is skipping certain mobs speedrun or not.

whatever the case, party leader usually calls the shots. You don’t agree? leave and find another party. what’s the big deal, and why all the drama? i’d guess someone has a hard time finding a party to his liking. Then i repeat, not our problem.

The reason why so many people are coming out against skipping mobs these days is because of the increasing number of stupid people that think they can apply that logic to every other dungeon situation. Then when they run into an encounter that actually requires some semblance of brain activity, like Fractals for example, they fail miserably and take the rest of the group down with them.

Skipping simply breeds incompetence, since it doesn’t teach players anything about game mechanics, or even reminds people of basic MMORPG tactics. Hell, I don’t even think anyone on this game but a skant few people even know how to AoE large groups of weaker mobs anymore, how Line of Sight works, or hell, even the fact that they have a kitten dodge button for a reason. You wouldn’t believe the number of parties I run into that keep failing on the first Grawl Shaman encounter in Fractals because I was the only one in the group that actually knew how crowd control works.

If you have already done the dungeons normally numerous times and just want to get through it, fine, do whatever, but for people that haven’t, teaching them to skip everything just shows them how to be lazy and idiotic.

Dub.1273:

Zraw has never been experienced in uw. DS has never been experienced in DoA.
NAME has been formed out of DL before they completely fell appart.
I cant tell much about NAME casuals anyway because the only runs i did with them were some DS+NAME mixes.

We usually do not skip Lupicus, for our 12 minute duo we did, tho. He usually doesn’t take more than 5 minutes (including turrets and abominations).

NAME casuals near the end of GW were around 20 minutes.

PolishSausage.1279:

The reason why so many people are coming out against skipping mobs these days is because of the increasing number of stupid people that think they can apply that logic to every other dungeon situation. Then when they run into an encounter that actually requires some semblance of brain activity, like Fractals for example, they fail miserably and take the rest of the group down with them.

Skipping simply breeds incompetence, since it doesn’t teach players anything about game mechanics, or even reminds people of basic MMORPG tactics. Hell, I don’t even think anyone on this game but a skant few people even know how to AoE large groups of weaker mobs anymore, how Line of Sight works, or hell, even the fact that they have a kitten dodge button for a reason. You wouldn’t believe the number of parties I run into that keep failing on the first Grawl Shaman encounter in Fractals because I was the only one in the group that actually knew how crowd control works.

If you have already done the dungeons normally numerous times and just want to get through it, fine, do whatever, but for people that haven’t, teaching them to skip everything just shows them how to be lazy and idiotic.

No. Skipping is not the reason for bad players. You also do not skip in FotM except for certain parts (grawl past the bats, dredge after bomb/drill door, etc). Skipping is a technique that requires skill as opposed to auto-attacking everything that’s in a dungeon.

People prefer to skip what they can because trash mobs are not worth the time. They take too long to kill for the majority of pugs. An optimized group can kill them quickly but they most likely will skip them as well. Until ANet makes them like the ones in the F&F dungeon, people will continue to skip them. They likely will still do so even after they are changed.

There’s no need to criticize those that want to skip. Do you want to be criticized for wanting to kill everything? Everyone has the right to play how they want. If you want to kill everything then form a group with that intention. Just be aware that skipping is the norm so don’t expect to join a random group and that people will kill everything.