Guild Wars 2

Do I need to l2P? For real, never had a reasonable run in CM. Every other dungeon is a breeze, but I frequently find my team and myself considering a rage quit. Sure Arah can be rough and it should be being a level 80 dungeon, but CM is just so unforgiving. I don’t know how people can consider this an easy dungeon.

Its not an easy dungeon, people “think” its easy because its the first dungeon you encounter, it needs some serious attention but I cannot see it happening, with a reasonable team setup you can get threw it, problem is getting a team as everyone wants to run the super super easy CoF, well until tonight lets hope.

because it actually is a dungeon that requires team play, imho.

The cutpurses deal insane amount of damage and bleeds while the riflemens snipe at you and triple damage you if you are moving. Not speaking of the bombers either or healing kbing frigging thugs

Every professions can make this dungeon easy:

• hunters have the heal zone & multiple roots / chills
• elems can go focus and also chill
• necro can blind, cure conditions, plague blind indefinitely
• guardians have walls, blindness, condition curing, zone controls, …
• warriors can do insane amount of damage… wait… they can go warhorn
• mesmer can feedback, cure condition, time warp
• engineers can blind, cure condition, put up walls
• thief can blind, wall and some other stuff i guess

if you are in a group where nobody is at minimum:

• curing conditions some of the time
• blinding some of the time
• blocking projectiles / reflecting them

then yes, you will have a hard time in the dungeon.

Also, some packs (after victoria P1, after Wahlen P3) can be skipped. They are hell even on organised groups.

Projectile reflection and block will ease your life in there a LOT. Also, condition removal and protection will help. (translated: bring at very least 1 decent guardian, and run will be much smoother.)

Also, of the three paths, P3 is way the best one to run/farm for tokens.

P1 and P2 do are a real pain, if your group isn’t prepared to tackle them.

With enough teamwork it becomes easier, however I have found that damage, sheer damage makes it a lot easier. Shut down a few of the enemy and it becomes a lot easier. However with insufficient damage… they take down one of yours and the rest of the group fall down like dominoes.

Its quite unforgiving if you’re not used to it. I used to farm them heaps so for most encounters I know which skills to have on my bar, where to pull the mobs etc. There are some tricks to it you’ll learn over time if you run them a few more times. Like most dungeons, a group of friends/gulidies or just people that listen makes things buttery smooth. This is also the first dungeon that taught me how awesome my wall of reflection is

Cm.. hard? hmm, guess you never runed it with skilled thief than

Because you didn’t bring blocks or reflection? I find this dungeon relatively challenging but we still run it with no deaths. For me, the challenge is being patient clearing mobs. Indeed, it is learn to play. Yes, this is a skill game. Yes, dying means you need practice. No, you have not yet reached your potential in this game. No, having exotics does not mean easy mode.

I find the challenging part to be the deathtraps and the whole Counter-The-Rocket-With-Air-Blast area

Raestloz.7134:

I find the challenging part to be the deathtraps and the whole Counter-The-Rocket-With-Air-Blast area

We line up single file; fall back after shooting. You gave to hit it a little early due to the cast time of the reflector rifle.

As with most dungeons, once you know what you are doing it becomes a lot easier. The basic plan would be to use missile defense to nullify the ranged attackers, take control of the annoying melee bandits and dispose of them, then take out the ranged attackers. Once you’ve run the paths a few times you can anticipate the ambushes and pick the places where you can fight without attracting more enemies. You can also spot the riflemen and saboteurs then avoid their big hits.

The skipping culture doesn’t really help players in CM. There are a few places where you can walk around the bandits without being seen and that’s good. Rushing/skipping through more than bandit group is generally bad.

Stooperdale.3560:

The skipping culture doesn’t really help players in CM. There are a few places where you can walk around the bandits without being seen and that’s good. Rushing/skipping through more than bandit group is generally bad.

Aye, content skipping with newcomers and some pugs does tend to end up horribly usually(pretty much always). With experienced players and/or close friends however thats a whole different story.

The enemies hit as hard as anywhere else but CM is one of the biggest offender of ‘fight in tiny cramped rooms’. Sometimes there are even tables and chairs getting in the way!

First dungeon I ever did in this game (and as a lowbie) was CM. Possibly the worst dungeon run in my entire career of gaming and was inches away from giving up on this game because I thought the whole constant death and rez-rush zerg style of play was absolutely stupid and poorly designed.

I stuck around tho and now love it lol. It gets better when you learn the mobs and environment of the dungeon. Here’s some help for you, this player is amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

All my gear is from CM, I farmed CM just for the armor style, nothing else! The dungeon is super easy man! The only dungeon that is hard in the game is FOTM 50+

Managed to do CM using a level 5x Mesmer, even had a party which didn’t include the Soldier types [Warriors and Guardians] and had one of the smoothest CM runs ever. It really goes down to how well you know the dungeon and how well you and your teammates know your characters. Heck, I only consider myself a mediocre Mesmer player but I can say I do better than some people who bring in their level 80s.

And regarding dungeon newbies, as long as they know their characters and listen/follow the “vets”, then dungeon runs aren’t too hard. The only thing I hate about CM is path 2, especially the part where you have to blast the door with barrels and the final boss.

CM is mostly just a pain due to unfair mechanics that instantly down you or kill you, such as the snipers that are rooted in place, and the downright boring lay out of the dungeon.

It boggles my mind how they made this large mansion, and hardly used any of the rooms or corridors in it. Its very linear and very annoying. Not hard, just unfair and unfun.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

CM is mostly just a pain due to unfair mechanics that instantly down you or kill you, such as the snipers that are rooted in place, and the downright boring lay out of the dungeon.

It boggles my mind how they made this large mansion, and hardly used any of the rooms or corridors in it. Its very linear and very annoying. Not hard, just unfair and unfun.

Rangers and guardians (and some others) can reflect…and bring a stun break. CM is punishing to anyone without reflects, invulnerability, or stun breakers.

Marius.8052:

First dungeon I ever did in this game (and as a lowbie) was CM. Possibly the worst dungeon run in my entire career of gaming and was inches away from giving up on this game because I thought the whole constant death and rez-rush zerg style of play was absolutely stupid and poorly designed.

I stuck around tho and now love it lol. It gets better when you learn the mobs and environment of the dungeon. Here’s some help for you, this player is amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

Thanks for the videos. He has some good ones

Chopps.5047:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

CM is mostly just a pain due to unfair mechanics that instantly down you or kill you, such as the snipers that are rooted in place, and the downright boring lay out of the dungeon.

It boggles my mind how they made this large mansion, and hardly used any of the rooms or corridors in it. Its very linear and very annoying. Not hard, just unfair and unfun.

Rangers and guardians (and some others) can reflect…and bring a stun break. CM is punishing to anyone without reflects, invulnerability, or stun breakers.

So, trying to play it with a necro was a bad idea :/

Necros fiiiiine, give those bandits some blinds with wells, elite pledge or from blast finishers on dark fields :P

Wesnoth.1705:

Necros fiiiiine, give those bandits some blinds with wells, elite pledge or from blast finishers on dark fields :P

If you have the trait to place wells that is. Because running up to them and blinding them gets you killed. This dungeon overall is very anti-necro and pro-guardian.

Blinding them should make their next attack miss, not sure how that gets you killed?

Chopps.5047:

Blinding them should make their next attack miss, not sure how that gets you killed?

I believe he is referring to ranged/pistol AI. I get killed in 3 shots from the bandits with the pistols. So Ive already taken 2 hits by time im in range to cast my well and praying hes blinded by the third hit and that I take no other aggro from someone else.

Exactly, anyone that doesn’t take cover gets downed in just a few shots. So running all the way down the corridor, right in the fire of those bandits, just to blind them once… that’s just a recipe for instant death.

You’d need a ranged blind of sorts. Because necromancers can’t deflect anything, and their Spectral Grasp doesn’t work in most of CM. Necromancers are really out of luck in that entire dungeon.

So all exploits/bugs which used thieves/mesmers are fixed?, it took little time/effort to finish the dungeon that way.

CM is fun but yea, it absolutely brutal to the unprepared.

defrule.7236:

CM is fun but yea, it absolutely brutal to the unprepared.

Seems to be so. I recall having one “reasonable run”when I played with 4 players from a guild who just needed an extra to fill in. I say “reasonable run”because I still wiped twice but got to the end of the path. Since I predominantly pug its not so good. Compare that to my experience pugging in most dungeons and its not a matter of “will I get through”but how quick can we get through it.

TBH Ive given up on this one for now. I can run all dungeons at a reasonable level/speed but this one, but for now Ill go back to speed running every other dungeon and put CM back in the “too hard basket”and revisit it another time.

just finished asura path in over 2 hours.

ive tried every other dung… and this is a broken piece of unfinished work…. im not saying that i want speed runs…. im saying that 100 mobs its hardly a mechanic…. like really really hate this dung…..

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Exactly, anyone that doesn’t take cover gets downed in just a few shots. So running all the way down the corridor, right in the fire of those bandits, just to blind them once… that’s just a recipe for instant death.

You’d need a ranged blind of sorts. Because necromancers can’t deflect anything, and their Spectral Grasp doesn’t work in most of CM. Necromancers are really out of luck in that entire dungeon.

You could just fire dark path, then duck back under cover while it flies. The instant the teleport lands, you cast Well of Darkness.

Granted, you’re still stuck directly beside those enemies, which may not be where you want to be.

Yeah, I suppose that’s the thing. Lots of immunities in that dungeon, and enemies do a lot of damage, while being massive damage sponges. I remember the first time I did that dungeon, and me and my party were pretty shocked how brutal the damage was. Lots of wipes and people instantly being downed as soon as a few bandits appeared.

And in those tight corridors its really hard to position your camera in a way that lets you see what’s going on. (not an issue in the outside areas obviously)

Ive bought 2 full sets of CM armor, doing it the proper way most of the runs. Admittedly havent done it in the past several months since I have 8 80’s and no character still wanting any CM armor/weapons, so some of this may nolonger be accurate, but it used to work.

For the asuran path, remember that a lot of the golem pieces can actually be blown up from upstairs, about half including the ones in the far room. The others can easily be gotten without dying by (and these are characters with personal experience, im sure others can get them too) mesmer, warrior, guardian, thief. Without a fight. Next skip to shamus to the barn, have 1 person watch cutscene whilst the others run up the stairs. Kill all the rangers, including the silvers, then just smash the boss. Couple of easy mobs (watch condition removals, and reflects and its easy) and then theres bloody victoria. Again an easy boss as you can track her invisible movements based on her boss icon on the minimap. Couple of easy mobs, skip up scaffolding to the right and into the underground room to line of sight the last couple of mobs. Run through the final section and then boss. That last run is the only bit thats not pug friendly, unless you have a thief who shadow refuges the whole party.

Path 2 is in my opinion tactically the easiest. Its all about where to fight people without pulling the mobs. I haven’t seen strifes video for CM but im pretty sure his would be on the mark.

Path 3 the hardest part is the first boss with a pug because of his perma knock back and ignoring of reflect. Especially if you miss-time your stunbreak so it ‘fails’ due to flying in the knockback motion. After that its a couple of simple mobs, which you can pull out of the room, or skip. Trick room, pulable boss, traps (which can be solod from this side by a ranger with 1500 range), and again under room and run.

This dungeon is in my opinion easier then alot of other dungeons BECAUSE the challenge is combat based. There are pretty much no puzzles. However, in that lies the problem. The challenge is combat based, so in an unorganised team that doesnt have the things required to reduce that challenge its hard. As opposed to dungeons where a simple trick makes the entire thing so much easier and it becomes about abusing that simple trick.

CM was indeed the first dungeon I ever did with a friend who needed a slot. Needless to say I had no idea what I was actually getting myself into. I played a warrior at the time (not geared up fully) and we were doing path 1… so I roll into the mansion expecting it to be fairly easy, and pretty much got everyone killed a few times over before I caught on. It was only hard initially, and every other part of the path we found some way to exploit something cheap, now that I need to do the dungeon for the gift though, I’ve got to say doing research and just preparing yourself to fight the enemies is a HUGE step to improving your performance in any dungeon.

My problem with CM is that it is not fun. It’s easy, like all content in this game bar the highest of Fractals, but it’s so boring. I just can’t bring myself to ever do it after I cleared it enough times to learn the encounters.

Did this again(all 3 paths) recently. I’ll add ‘the dungeon designer is an kitten #8217; to the list. -_-
Hallway full of spike traps with ranged AoE spammers at the end. THEN after you kill those a room full of silvers while the traps remain active.

Oh and whoever did the dungeon layout is apparently unaware there is an Engineer class with grenades. You basically have to go melee with grenades unless you want them colliding with the ceiling.

Projectile Reflect (or Absorb) and condition cleansing (particularly AoE party cleanses) almost trivialize this dungeon.

There’s a few “gotcha” bosses like the guy that starts shotgunning people for being in melee, and the Necromancer boss that turns invulnerable while flying around, but otherwise as long as you have constant projectile reflect, constant condition cleansing, you’ll be good

That’s another thing, some classes are definitely favored in this dungeon over others. And that blasted trapped corridor that Khisanth mentioned is indeed one of my biggest frustrations. Those AoE spammers at the end have deliberately been made immune to pull skills, thus forcing you to run through the traps… which instantly down you… and there’s no way to shut them off.

Hell, necromancers with flesh wurm can get lucky and teleport to the other side (you might still get downed by the trap, because its a long distance to teleport). But how are other classes supposed to pass this obstacle?

And yes, as Rising Dusk said. Even if you learn all the encounters, its just not any fun.

You get around the spike traps by throwing pillows and jumping on them.

RedStar.4218:

You get around the spike traps by throwing pillows and jumping on them.

You mean we need to bring those pillows from upstairs all the way down into the basement, and through all those tunnels? That’s absurd.

And no, I’m not talking about the spike trap in the upstairs room, I mean the one in the tunnels below. Where there aren’t any pillows to throw.

Wow… I never thought people found this dun hard… I thought nobody did it because its boring. Being this the case, i think i got extremely lucky, im in no way a skilled player, i made the bad decision of chosing a thief as my main and first class, and still CM was the only instance i could run repeteadly without embarrasing myself. I was so bad playing this game when I started that in my first dun (AC, pre-patch mind you) i kept dying and quit the group out of shame, and i found CM far more forgiving, in fact I got enough tokens to buy the entire set before getting to 80. I repeat, I AM, to this day, an average player, in fact I still cant run arah, but I think I could 3-man CM easily, without glitching, just because I know the path, I know what to do. In this way I am convinced that CM is no different from any other dun (except CoF path 1 of course, I could solo that… thing) “dont fool around, stick to the group, you’ll be fine”

Im starting to think people actually tackles the huge mob zerg after “bloody Victoria” and hope to win… honestly, in every dun there are parts that are just there to skip, not because you want to do a speed run, but because of a design choice, there is skill in skipping a huge zerg without dying.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You mean we need to bring those pillows from upstairs all the way down into the basement, and through all those tunnels? That’s absurd.

And no, I’m not talking about the spike trap in the upstairs room, I mean the one in the tunnels below. Where there aren’t any pillows to throw.

Oh woops, got the wrong room because of the “no way to shut them off”.
As with anything in CM, reflects are ncie to have.

Or for something a little exploity before killing the boss, have someone wait at the door. As soon as it opens, rush through it until the ramp (but before aggroing the big group) to deactivate the traps.

i’ve dubbed CM the official worst dungeon. XDDDD

but agree, teamwork, knowing what you’re up against, reflections, condition cleanses make it a lot easier. but still.. most mechanics are.. not in any way fun in my opinion. the only bit i like are blowing back the missiles from the turrets. the ONLY fun bit in the entire dungeon lol

i’ll take any other dungeon over CM any day.

If people are referring to the tunnel in the basement with the turrets then you’re supposed to destroy them; not ignore them. There are rifles for those that don’t have ranged weapons.

Just have everyone focus on a single target. This is a problem I see with a ton of groups. Everyone attacks whatever target and they all stay alive longer meaning more damage they do to the group. People also do not group them up together with pulls/pushes or use line of sight. This prevents you from attacking them all at once and making it easier.

But how do you get past the tunnel with the ranged bandits, and all the spikes coming from the ground? Suppose you are playing a class that doesn’t have access to deflection or blocking? Those spikes instantly down you, and the enemies do a lot of damage. There’s no way to shut down the trap, and you can’t pull the enemies, not even with pull-skills. Running isn’t fast enough, the enemies and the spikes get you before you reach the other side. Some ranged attacks hit them, but they do far more damage than you. But they are out of range of ground targeted attacks.

Honestly, what is the intended strategy for this bit? I’ve completed it myself through trial and error, teleporting and speed boosts, but that was pretty dodgy every time I did it. (Plus I had to hide behind the door opening once I got to the other side, just so they wouldn’t instantly kill me) Is there something I’m missing here?

You can run in and all attack and run out of range. Every group I have done has had a guardian or someone with reflect. It’s doable without reflect but it’s easier if you do. Watch YouTube videos and see how those without reflect do it. I remember my first group ever didn’t and we eventually got past them. If I recall, the archers do more damage if you move.

I agree that CM is probably my least favorite dungeon right now, but its issue is pretty straightforward, IMO.

Too many of the mobs are linked together into overwhelming groups. This makes control very difficult, and pulling the mobs in smaller, more manageable groups is next to impossible. Large groups might not be a problem normally, except that CM’s mob clusters also have a large proportion of silver-trims compared to normal trash mobs.

This leads to people skipping a large portion of the mobs entirely. However, if you have anyone in the group that doesn’t know the methods/paths for skipping, they can pull all of the mobs everyone else skipped to the group and result in a wipe anyway.

Honestly, I think all ANet needs to do is unlink some of the mobs so that careful pulling is possible.

Use line of sight to group them

Ayrilana.1396:

You can run in and all attack and run out of range. Every group I have done has had a guardian or someone with reflect. It’s doable without reflect but it’s easier if you do. Watch YouTube videos and see how those without reflect do it. I remember my first group ever didn’t and we eventually got past them. If I recall, the archers do more damage if you move.

Riflemen(or marksmen? dudes with rifles :P) are the ones who do more damage to moving targets.

Archers are the ones who just randomly go invulnerable(it looks like they are using a very long Distortion).

So CM …
- forces you to fight in tight spaces
- tight spaces that the game’s camera can’t really handle
- a boss who chains knockdown in said tight spaces
- enemies who spam multiple AoEs in tight spaces
- hallway full of traps ending in ranged enemies(silver)
- traps are disabled by invisible trigger which may or may not require aggroing another group of enemies(also silver)
- boss which can chill you for the whole fight
- boss which periodically goes invulnerable
- boss which is possibly one of the easiest fight in the game …(I guess this one doesn’t really fit with the rest)

After all that the CoE story mode might still be worse(they actually buffed an enemy that was already capable of killing you with homing and piercing projectiles).

And lets not forget, its basically one long corridor filled with enemies. Apart from that bit where you deflect rockets, there really isn’t that much interesting happening in this dungeon.

I don’t think it’s a particularly hard dungeon, but the conditions applied by all of the mobs do a ton of damage. If you’ve got reflection and condition removal, that should really be enough.

That being said, most people / pugs don’t seem to bother learning game mechanics and want to yolo into the middle of huge groups of mobs, and that simply doesn’t work in CM. I don’t think it’s the dungeon being too hard in this case, I think the issue is that people that don’t understand game mechanics.

I think its unfair to expect players to understand game mechanics that are never properly explained.

And no dungeon should demand reflection. Only a few classes have access to that. I want to be able to do a dungeon with my friends, and not force someone to re-roll a guardian.