Guild Wars 2

Simple question… why are dedicated parties that consist of guild members and friends are being punished so much in fotm?

The system is clearly in favor of randoms, pugs, instead of organised play, not only due to the difficulty (it’s not very high) but there is no mechanic to actually help a group with the serious RNG issue.

I’ve been playing with the same people for a long time, we went from level 3 to level 22 together and I noticed how bad the ring distribution is, others got loads, others got only one, same with ascended materials like shards and globs.

Is there a way our dear Anet devs, would add a simple “need/pass” mechanic, like those in every single MMO out there, so we, a group of friends who trust each other, can pass the rings/materials around as much as we want?

I’m not asking to make them non-account bound, keep them bound on acquire, just allow the party to distribute them around as they see fit, instead of all this randomness in the game.

Obviously this “mechanic” should be togglable and clearly visible to anyone that joins the group, we don’t want to ruin that pugging experience.

That’s because the “need/pass” action reduce your time in game….and ANet just use this method to keep people in game

Well, there’s pristine relics.

Skyblue.9358:

That’s because the “need/pass” action reduce your time in game….and ANet just use this method to keep people in game

Actually need/pass makes people compete. You know how you can run dungeons in other MMOs for hundreds of times and never get n item because you are always outrolled by someone else’s need? Also why would they try to keep people? There’s no subscription.

To the OP – random pugs don’t get a higher chance than you running with your friends do.

Mirta.5029:

Actually need/pass makes people compete. You know how you can run dungeons in other MMOs for hundreds of times and never get n item because you are always outrolled by someone else’s need?

In every MMORPG I run the highest, “most difficult”, group content with my guild and friends and in all of them we can decide easily how to distribute gear more effectively for the group. In Guild Wars 2, we simply can’t do that, we need to follow “pug rules” and that’s exactly why I’m saying that fotm is punishing dedicated groups by not giving them anything more than the random pugs.

Why must I always get DPS rings (I don’t want them) and my fellow Thief gets Vitality rings and we can’t exchange? Why must a fellow member get 5 rings while someone else gets 1, this RNG is just painful and the solution is so easy.

Unless of course all Anet cares for are those random pugs, which might well be the case… Pugs forever!

This games dungeon drop/reward system is seriously messed up.

As an organized group, you have 3 advantages.

1) You never have to look for a group. You call them up on the phone and ask when they want. This saves time. And lets you run whenever you want.

2) You never have to worry about the quality of a group. If all your friends are good, or at least consistent, you know exactly what you can do, when to opt out, and which dungeons run faster with your group. This, once again, saves you time. That and you don’t have to give people instructions every single run.

3) You don’t have to wait for people to get their rings. You can carry your friends and honestly if you don’t think the difficulty is hard, you don’t need AR and can do them at higher difficulty, giving you more chances than the pug player to get the ring you want. Also you only need 20 PFRs, and a few crystals to melt down into any ring you want with +5 AR. I don’t even care about the random drop anymore, I just hunt for PFRs and melt away with all the crystals I get.

Since time = money, how is this not in favor of premade groups?

maddoctor.2738:

Mirta.5029:

Actually need/pass makes people compete. You know how you can run dungeons in other MMOs for hundreds of times and never get n item because you are always outrolled by someone else’s need?

In every MMORPG I run the highest, “most difficult”, group content with my guild and friends and in all of them we can decide easily how to distribute gear more effectively for the group. In Guild Wars 2, we simply can’t do that, we need to follow “pug rules” and that’s exactly why I’m saying that fotm is punishing dedicated groups by not giving them anything more than the random pugs.

Why must I always get DPS rings (I don’t want them) and my fellow Thief gets Vitality rings and we can’t exchange? Why must a fellow member get 5 rings while someone else gets 1, this RNG is just painful and the solution is so easy.

Unless of course all Anet cares for are those random pugs, which might well be the case… Pugs forever!

Well in other MMOs I can’t get dungeon rewards because I don’t have dedicated dungeoning groups. You are not rated higher over everyone else, but you’re not worse off either. Run 20 times and buy the ones you want. That’s what I did. Also with the variety of builds you can do in the game your fellow thief, for all the game knows, can have a tank build with lots of vitality. Save the rings you don’t need for your other characters.

A solution, ( in the case of your ring issues) Is to have a NPC trading system. Trade in the ring with stats you don’t want for a ring with the stats you do want.

Your friends who are not getting the rings they want, currently they can trade fractal tokens for them. Now in the case of those with really bad luck you are unable to upgrade them due to lack of shards/essences etc.- this is where I think they should introduce shards/essences etc to their token merchant, so they can acquire them through there and then go on ahead and upgrade.

Here’s why I don’t like roll to win:

I agree that the RNG nature of infused rings hindering progression for guild groups is very irritating. My BF is stuck way behind me trying to get his AR up so he can join in again.

IceWyvern.2019:

As an organized group, you have 3 advantages.

1) You never have to look for a group. You call them up on the phone and ask when they want. This saves time. And lets you run whenever you want.

2) You never have to worry about the quality of a group. If all your friends are good, or at least consistent, you know exactly what you can do, when to opt out, and which dungeons run faster with your group. This, once again, saves you time. That and you don’t have to give people instructions every single run.

3) You don’t have to wait for people to get their rings. You can carry your friends and honestly if you don’t think the difficulty is hard, you don’t need AR and can do them at higher difficulty, giving you more chances than the pug player to get the ring you want. Also you only need 20 PFRs, and a few crystals to melt down into any ring you want with +5 AR. I don’t even care about the random drop anymore, I just hunt for PFRs and melt away with all the crystals I get.

Since time = money, how is this not in favor of premade groups?

This assessment is spot-on. I don’t think anyone is relying on RNG to get the rings they want. If it happens, bonus! But most people are just getting their Pristines and buying them.

You’re also only at scale 22, at higher scales you will realize this dungeon highly favors organized non-pug groups.

maddoctor.2738:

Mirta.5029:

Actually need/pass makes people compete. You know how you can run dungeons in other MMOs for hundreds of times and never get n item because you are always outrolled by someone else’s need?

In every MMORPG I run the highest, “most difficult”, group content with my guild and friends and in all of them we can decide easily how to distribute gear more effectively for the group. In Guild Wars 2, we simply can’t do that, we need to follow “pug rules” and that’s exactly why I’m saying that fotm is punishing dedicated groups by not giving them anything more than the random pugs.

Why must I always get DPS rings (I don’t want them) and my fellow Thief gets Vitality rings and we can’t exchange? Why must a fellow member get 5 rings while someone else gets 1, this RNG is just painful and the solution is so easy.

Unless of course all Anet cares for are those random pugs, which might well be the case… Pugs forever!

I happen to be one of maddoctor’s friend, I agree on everything and I can confirm that this is the case. We have had problems with tactics and agony but we have worked through that as a team and I must say we have done great in the past weeks. Our group is working just fine and the moral among us is great.

But due to uneven loot distribution some of us feel like it’s not worth it anymore. We do 8 fractals (10/20) per night 7 days of the week, always the same group, none of us uses MF gear, food or boosts, never the less the distribution of loot seems awful. For example, I have got 1 vial, 3 globes and 1 shard in my bank and 3 un-infused rings in total after 150+runs while one of use has more then 7 un-infused rings, 3 infused rings and loads of shards, globes and vials. We have both spent equal time, we have made the same effort but we are rewarded unequally. RNG simply sucks.

Mirta.

Buying the ring that you want is not the problem, at least not for me, I can buy 3 per 15 days. But with 1 shard, 3 globs and 1 vial sitting in my bank for 2 weeks, I do not have enough mats to infuse them. Meanwhile for others in my group, shards have been dropping almost every day. To be able to level in fractals along with my group I am going to need more AR. What make this all so frustrating is that Anet says they want to eliminate grief and therefore they implement an RNG system, in this case it’s the cause of the grief and therefore not working as they intended it to work.

@Hamrammur: Most of the bosses agony attacks can be avoided. It might mean a lower margin of error so the ppl in your static group just need to be a little more careful.

For Jade Maw, just depend on your teams to heal/rez you. After all it is only those 2 attacks. Since it is a static group, I don’t think the others will be too mindful of helping of you since they are well aware of your predicament.

If you really are dedicated you’ll be farming those glob and vial solo and not complaining.

The only thing that really rely on luck is 2 lvl10 daily ring, and there is pristine relic. And it is not very hard consider you can use alt to get pristine relic too. Your alt dont’ even need to be high level.

And really, you just need to get a ring, any ring, it don’t have to be a ring of your spec. It makes little difference “for the dungeon”. Since you said yourself fotm isn’t very hard. If you really are dedicated, it is not hard to get those AR.

And before you tell me you are not complaining about AR and just RNG, reread your title. “Why is Anet punishing dedicated group”. So I presume you are complaining about you can’t get enough AR to progress with your group. Since RNG is a %#&*( for PUG too.

Wrong. FotM punishes everyone.

Hamrammur.7528:

Mirta.

Buying the ring that you want is not the problem, at least not for me, I can buy 3 per 15 days. But with 1 shard, 3 globs and 1 vial sitting in my bank for 2 weeks, I do not have enough mats to infuse them. Meanwhile for others in my group, shards have been dropping almost every day. To be able to level in fractals along with my group I am going to need more AR. What make this all so frustrating is that Anet says they want to eliminate grief and therefore they implement an RNG system, in this case it’s the cause of the grief and therefore not working as they intended it to work.

I’m not even going to be infusing more than +5 resistance on mine. For now 250 ectos just to up the resistance seem completely not worth it, especially with more ascended items coming out.
I don’t know how can it be the cause of grief. If you’re all running as a friendly group share yellows for salvaging ectos from?

ya I think they want to get away from the idea of “raiding”. Before you tell me a 5 man dungeon isn’t raiding. I just think progressional dungeon which is only possible by dedicated group is consider raiding.

I played a game which have 5 man dungeon but that is sort of like raiding, since there is a timer, and you always do it in dedicated group since it is not pugable, and you have to be get geared from one dungeon to progress to the next. Which is sort of like raiding.

But if you meant to tell me GW2 is punishing dedicated group because you can’t assign loot like other raiding game which use DKP it is a bit far stretched.

Hamrammur.7528:

But due to uneven loot distribution some of us feel like it’s not worth it anymore. We do 8 fractals (10/20) per night 7 days of the week, always the same group, none of us uses MF gear, food or boosts, never the less the distribution of loot seems awful. For example, I have got 1 vial, 3 globes and 1 shard in my bank and 3 un-infused rings in total after 150+runs while one of use has more then 7 un-infused rings, 3 infused rings and loads of shards, globes and vials. We have both spent equal time, we have made the same effort but we are rewarded unequally. RNG simply sucks.

@Shards -

Shards become much more common in higher level runs, so push past 26 and you should be getting a lot more to drop. You’re only 1 shard away from being able to make an infused ring. Also, past 26, only infused rings drop. There are plenty of players at 30 who run it with 0-10 AR for fun, so this shouldn’t be a problem if you like difficulty.

Also you’ll get a welcome surprise at 28, where the difficulty actually rises without simply adding agony. [As well as an unwelcome surprise at 40-50, when they all disappear since no one can survive JM with that much agony stack without pet revive/revive orb/99% trick]

Monetarily, are you really being rewarded differently? I think it should be roughly the same.

About the original topic though… I think we’ve settled that there is no bias towards PUG runs over premade. What you’re saying is that you hate the loot distribution, which can be tough at times. But such is RNG.

At level 22, wouldn’t you have all the rings/backpieces you need? Just asking. I have all I need at level 15 and not sure why you would still need to share them with other players at level 22.

I normally get a few shards per run.

Meh..just make the extra unwanted rings salvageable but instead of ectos make em drop essence.

@aion guy: i played aion up until the first add-ons hit but end gear in that game was pretty easy to get. It was that lvl 50 crap that made you run around the map at specific time looking for something to spawn n kitten. Doable in 1, 2 weeks top. It was every other gear that was pretty much worthless and a complete waste of time.

Also SMs not putting out dps? lolcat…they had the best dps due to their dots, the only reason you brought the other mage along was for CC

As to why the other guy should give you his loot, no comment. I do the same. Insta block on anyone that ever tried to pull “oh pls, i need that, ive been farming for a year, pls i need”. Guess what buddy, I need it to, though luck.

Hepan.2709:

Meh..just make the extra unwanted rings salvageable but instead of ectos make em drop essence.

@aion guy: i played aion up until the first add-ons hit but end gear in that game was pretty easy to get. It was that lvl 50 crap that made you run around the map at specific time looking for something to spawn n kitten. Doable in 1, 2 weeks top. It was every other gear that was pretty much worthless and a complete waste of time.

Also SMs not putting out dps? lolcat…they had the best dps due to their dots, the only reason you brought the other mage along was for CC

As to why the other guy should give you his loot, no comment. I do the same. Insta block on anyone that ever tried to pull “oh pls, i need that, ive been farming for a year, pls i need”. Guess what buddy, I need it to, though luck.

I played Aion 12 hours per day for a year. The level cap on that game is now 60. Sm’s may have done more dps if geared correctly, but when pugging, sorcs were always taken over SM’s, because on average, a pug sorc would out dps a pug sm due to gear. Not only this, but a Sorc’s CC, the tree CC is stationary whilst the SM’s CC is a fear that makes the mobs run away and into other mobs, thus overpulling and making the dungeon take longer. And good CCs were needed for high end dungeons. Back then lvl 55 was the cap, the average pug needed a sorc for their CC capability alone. Not only this, but here’s another example: gladiators and Templars. Glads provide more DPS, but they cant tank anywhere near as well as a templar. They both needed heavy gear. The average 55 pug would never take a glad, only take the temp for beshmundir temple unless the glad already had a full SW set or was doing a Loot right run.

The dungeon I am referring to for Stormwing gear is level 55, and at the time of the level 55 cap, that dungeon was all the rage. The drops rates were awful, and loot rights were sold as high at 100mil kinah for one piece of gear.

Now days they have lvl 60 dungeons with the same crap all over again. Loot sold for obscene prices, people fighting over it, and poor RNG.

Level 50 was all you played up to? lolcat please, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Oh and the gear you refer to? Miragents/Fenris? that’s trash gear in that game now. They even handed a set of it out for free at one point. If you ping that set now, people laugh at you and kick you.

As to why the other guy should give you his loot, no comment. I do the same. Insta block on anyone that ever tried to pull “oh pls, i need that, ive been farming for a year, pls i need”. Guess what buddy, I need it to, though luck.

Oh and this? Let’s see. I run this dungeon 200+ times without the need for him or his class. I help him level up from 1 to 55, I teach him how to play, take him into my guild and gear him up through the levels, and I take him in the dungeon to show him how to play it as an act of kindness, because no one else would take an inexperienced player. He need not even be there, in fact alot of the time I did this dungeon short a person. And all I ask is for one of the 3 pieces he got. Oh the horror, how selfish of me.

Well, ‘Buddy’, I think you need to go back and play some more Aion, you clearly haven’t in a long time as you don’t know anything about the game past level 50. lol.

@MIrta:

I am referring to infused rings, not back item.

@IceWyvern:

Thanks for the advice and warning

Regarding uneven rewards.
When it comes to orange and pink drops the distribution is awful. Yellow and lower seems to be pretty even.

@DancingPenguins:

After 1 week (15 runs) not a single shard, glob nor vial has dropped for me.
While others in group seem to be getting at least 1 per run.

Hamrammur.7528:

@MIrta:

I am referring to infused rings, not back item.

Just noticed that you don’t need the globs to upgrade rings.
In any case, sorry to hear about your drop rate, mine is not much better (own 1 vial and 2 globs only), however a system of voting (need/ greed/ pass), would make it even harder, especially for pugs. (most people would roll need no matter they need it or not and steal your loot), it would be better if it was buyable with fractal relics I suppose.

Mirta.5029:

Just noticed that you don’t need the globs to upgrade rings.
In any case, sorry to hear about your drop rate, mine is not much better (own 1 vial and 2 globs only), however a system of voting (need/ greed/ pass), would make it even harder, especially for pugs. (most people would roll need no matter they need it or not and steal your loot), it would be better if it was buyable with fractal relics I suppose.

Or have it as a toggle? Of course with their current fail 1-person kick voting it wouldn’t work, but a majority vote toggle in loot distribution could work.

maddoctor.2738:

Mirta.5029:

Just noticed that you don’t need the globs to upgrade rings.
In any case, sorry to hear about your drop rate, mine is not much better (own 1 vial and 2 globs only), however a system of voting (need/ greed/ pass), would make it even harder, especially for pugs. (most people would roll need no matter they need it or not and steal your loot), it would be better if it was buyable with fractal relics I suppose.

Or have it as a toggle? Of course with their current fail 1-person kick voting it wouldn’t work, but a majority vote toggle in loot distribution could work.

that way you would see guilds of 3 running with 2 random pugs, toggling on loot distribution and stealing loot from pugs by rolling need on it…