Guild Wars 2

I think I have more fun reading the drama here than playing the game.

SkyChef.5432:

I think I have more fun reading the drama here than playing the game.

You’re not the only one.

people hate zerk for the same reason people hate eles and engies. They think everyone is incapable of running zerk, or they’ve tried to run zerk and got squashed. The skill cap is high for zerk in a dungeon, and it requires a certain type of build, and jedi-like reflexes.

But running bad gear doesn’t make you more support oriented at all. For example, a guardian can go 10/30/0/30/0 for PoV, EM and Superior Aria and still run full glass cannon and yet you will ooze support, with group condi cleansing, group might stacking, -12s cd on retreat, syg and htl which remove conditions from your team and on to you, apply prot/regen and apply stability. You can still use wall of reflection. You can still use purging flames (or w/e the condi cleansing fire field is … in fact you can even blast your own field if you have a hammer for might stacks).

Generally if a zerker gets downed when pugging it’s because they couldn’t dodge enough because the rest of their team was too slow. This pretty much happened when I PUG’d hotw p1 yesterday (low AP players, one guy was in armour looking like basic chain mail, same guy used warrior axe 5, I should have bailed out asap…) when we got to the second boss. The guard put up WoR which was good, but then a few of them camped range, I melee’d some of the other guys were more half hearted about melee, and the fight took ages. The funny thing is, it’s not even like I wiped first despite being full glass and eating that boss’s projectiles repeatedly because it felt like my heal was taking an eternity to get off cooldown.

Final boss, again he seemed to like attacking me plus there was probably some sloppy play from me since I rarely do the dungeon.

tl;dr you have no reason to not use full berserker, learn it, get good at it and watch how you completely blitz through dungeons

Simple, because almost every zerk out there is not up to that gear. The vast majority keeps dying and dying. It’s pretty easy, just analyze your /death and /age and your death/hour ratio will tell you if you should or should not use berzeker gear. You don’t need to tell me or anyone else the result. Just don’t lie to yourself. Zerk is not for everyone. kitten , melee zerk is not even for half the players. So many people thinking they are good because they use zerk and they are pretty bad actually. Even worse because they choose the wrong gear set for them and the problem worsen as people who posts different builds gets flamed.

And that is why we hate Zerks and people who preaches it.

Ps. People who only plays in closed guild groups should stay away from this topics. You don’t play with “people” you just party with the same 4 guys every night.

sorry to be a kitten but I can’t help it

wouldn’t rpers be most qualified to wear zerks?

I have many deaths but most of those were from when i was casually being useless in openworld leveling and taking on things that I had no idea how much they would kick my kitten. I also died alot more when i use to think my supporty wells necro build was good. When i first switched to zerker I died alot but i quickly adapted and improved. People who never make the switch will always have a difficult time improving.

I’d like to point out that /deaths says nothing about your peformance, i’m pretty sure PvP and WvW deaths counts, also there are deaths from when you’re learning your class, learning how to skip something solo, soloing stuff that shouldn’t be solo-able and so on. Just because you read about the /deaths on the general discussion doesn’t mean it is actually useful.

Oxxy.7068:

I’d like to point out that /deaths says nothing about your peformance, i’m pretty sure PvP and WvW deaths counts, also there are deaths from when you’re learning your class, learning how to skip something solo, soloing stuff that shouldn’t be solo-able and so on. Just because you read about the /deaths on the general discussion doesn’t mean it is actually useful.

Like I said, this is not to brag about. Keep it to yourself. I truly don’t care. As long as you are honest to yourself and don’t come back putting excuses to your deaths.

You die a lot? then zerk is probably not for you, nor in WvW or PvE. And whoever tells you you are bad for not using it, screw him; you are worse with zerk anyway, the game is more fun with colors in the screen.

Ps. Just to point out your answer is just bla bla bla, in my personal case I like to do solo everything I encounter on the open world, even if its solo-able or not. I didn’t read on the general discussions about the /deaths, I know most of the commands since day 1 since I find some of them useful and /* its not something new in the MMO world (not for someone like me who has been playing MMOs since 1997, Ultima Online). Again, I don’t care about your personal status so stay out of mine as well. Try to be more objective if you are discussing in a public forum.

Wearing bad gear automatically makes you a worthless bad player, full stop.

Oh Mesket, you fell for the bait again

Mesket.5728:

Broadicea.8294:

Wearing bad gear automatically makes you a worthless bad player, full stop.

Unless you bring a puppeteer, your dead body on the floor makes you nothing at all.

I can spend half the run taking a nap, and if I’m doing double your dps…

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Oh Mesket, you fell for the bait again

Since I have experience working with kids, its hard to tell when its bait and when its serious so the only thing someone can do, trying to be polite, is at least answer but yeah, sometimes is annoying.

Broadicea.8294:

Mesket.5728:

Broadicea.8294:

Wearing bad gear automatically makes you a worthless bad player, full stop.

Unless you bring a puppeteer, your dead body on the floor makes you nothing at all.

I can spend half the run taking a nap, and if I’m doing double your dps…

If you are going to generalize so wide, at least do it right. A cleric warrior can double the dps of a zerk staff necro. Your arguments are worst than most kids around this forums.

Not really. As kittentaff camping is on a necro, it will still be doing more than anything in clerics when using zerk.

stupid forum censor

Mesket.5728:

Oxxy.7068:

I’d like to point out that /deaths says nothing about your peformance, i’m pretty sure PvP and WvW deaths counts, also there are deaths from when you’re learning your class, learning how to skip something solo, soloing stuff that shouldn’t be solo-able and so on. Just because you read about the /deaths on the general discussion doesn’t mean it is actually useful.

Like I said, this is not to brag about. Keep it to yourself. I truly don’t care. As long as you are honest to yourself and don’t come back putting excuses to your deaths.

You die a lot? then zerk is probably not for you, nor in WvW or PvE. And whoever tells you you are bad for not using it, screw him; you are worse with zerk anyway, the game is more fun with colors in the screen.

Ps. Just to point out your answer is just bla bla bla, in my personal case I like to do solo everything I encounter on the open world, even if its solo-able or not. I didn’t read on the general discussions about the /deaths, I know most of the commands since day 1 since I find some of them useful and /* its not something new in the MMO world (not for someone like me who has been playing MMOs since 1997, Ultima Online). Again, I don’t care about your personal status so stay out of mine as well. Try to be more objective if you are discussing in a public forum.

TL;DR

“Because Zerks rhymes with Jerks! Therefore anyone who runs zerker gear must be a kitten by default.”

This is basically the logic that many people use. Unfortunately certain members of our community really enjoy trumping themselves up. When people speak of zerker gear being the most efficient it’s technically correct (provided the player and group can manage it), but sometimes that assertion is also followed by a insult. It makes the message get lost and people stop focusing on the factual information in terms of it being efficient and focus on what is then perceived as a personal attack against them.

SgtSarcasm.1653:

Actually, what makes the message get lost is usually the endless dying the vast majority of the Zerker players do after “trymping themselves up”.

I personally don’t care if they want to behave like kittens if they can actually back up their boasting with decent play, but most of them can’t.

Nah that doesn’t really happen. Sorry about your inaccurate perception of reality.

When zerkers in PUGs die it’s normally because the group’s DPS sucks and they can’t infinitely keep up dodges.

Then of course there are the CoF zerkers that can’t even dodge the effigy knockback … they’re just bad.

Z3rkur gear is more successful when the whole team is wearing it. You’ve got PVT gear in which you try to out-endure your opponent, then Zirkor in which it’s kill before you’re killed. So a majority of players able to out-endure a boss’ attacks teamed up with poor Basurkor whose quickly running out of dodges does make Bagsirkor look worse, despite the fact that he probably did double the damage contribution of the PVT carebears before going down.

Prime example of this is the Slave Driver in CoF1. 5 Burgzirghuirz will melt him before anyone downs, start adding in PVT players and people start downing.

Mesket.5728:

Simple, because almost every zerk out there is not up to that gear. The vast majority keeps dying and dying. It’s pretty easy, just analyze your /death and /age and your death/hour ratio will tell you if you should or should not use berzeker gear. You don’t need to tell me or anyone else the result. Just don’t lie to yourself. Zerk is not for everyone. kitten , melee zerk is not even for half the players. So many people thinking they are good because they use zerk and they are pretty bad actually. Even worse because they choose the wrong gear set for them and the problem worsen as people who posts different builds gets flamed.

And that is why we hate Zerks and people who preaches it.

Ps. People who only plays in closed guild groups should stay away from this topics. You don’t play with “people” you just party with the same 4 guys every night.

i hav 1000 deaths per hour help

Doesn’t matter how much you preach Zerker gear to PVT baddies who think they are so pro. Bads are bad ’cause they refuse to learn.

So called ‘cookie cutter builds’ are also a product of experimentation of people who have already done the leg work of testing them, trying to explore into other options when some else has already found the optimal setup in attempt to kitten yourself (rather than seeking something more efficient than the meta) is just being ignorant.

People that complain about cookie cutter builds or stuff are about as silly as a general complaining about everyone reading The Art of War.

“Don’t listen to anybody’s experience and wisdom regarding the matter! Who cares if it works?! Experiment on your own and reject any data that supports what they’re preaching! PVT go!”

Dolan.3071:

Z3rkur gear is more successful when the whole team is wearing it. You’ve got PVT gear in which you try to out-endure your opponent, then Zirkor in which it’s kill before you’re killed. So a majority of players able to out-endure a boss’ attacks teamed up with poor Basurkor whose quickly running out of dodges does make Bagsirkor look worse, despite the fact that he probably did double the damage contribution of the PVT carebears before going down.

Prime example of this is the Slave Driver in CoF1. 5 Burgzirghuirz will melt him before anyone downs, start adding in PVT players and people start downing.

BZRGKYRXGORS

Oxxy.7068:

I’d like to point out that /deaths says nothing about your peformance, i’m pretty sure PvP and WvW deaths counts, also there are deaths from when you’re learning your class, learning how to skip something solo, soloing stuff that shouldn’t be solo-able and so on. Just because you read about the /deaths on the general discussion doesn’t mean it is actually useful.

Super adventure box counts too :P maybe someday we’ll get a breakdown in /deaths.

Dolan.3071:

Z3rkur gear is more successful when the whole team is wearing it. You’ve got PVT gear in which you try to out-endure your opponent, then Zirkor in which it’s kill before you’re killed. So a majority of players able to out-endure a boss’ attacks teamed up with poor Basurkor whose quickly running out of dodges does make Bagsirkor look worse, despite the fact that he probably did double the damage contribution of the PVT carebears before going down.

Prime example of this is the Slave Driver in CoF1. 5 Burgzirghuirz will melt him before anyone downs, start adding in PVT players and people start downing.

Zimbabwe

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I only run Arah because it’s what I find fun. All the other dungeons are babypoop.

I sometimes go on Arah runs if someone needs one, even if I’ve done my daily or w/e. I’ve also dropped at the end multiple times to give away my spot. Rewards don’t make the fun, they’re just a cherry on top.

Arah would be more fun if pugs weren’t capable of actively screwing up the Lupicus fight for me. 90% of the time I down to Lupi in phase 3 because people keep kiting him around and I have to chase and get bubbled. That or they make him shadowstep clear across the arena in phase 2 and he oneshots me at range.

Hate for zerker ? That reminds me of an old thread …

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-hate-for-talent/first

:)

To the OP,
only pug groups hate glass canons.Ask any proper guild that runs dungeons what they think.Every guild that makes speed clears in Arah and do melee kills of Lupi are using berzerkers.In other dungeons like TA fwd/up or AC p3 you will use berzerkers.

It’s always faster,safer and smoother to have good and experienced glass canons.Even in high level fractals my guild is using atleast 3 glass canons and 2 supports.

At one point one of my guild officer and raid leader was yelling at me that my berzerker build was not good enough because my dmg was not high enough.So i had to make a reaserch to see how can i increase the kitten dps without changing to much the build.

moiraine.2753:

To the OP,
At one point one of my guild officers and raid leader was yelling at me that my berzerker build was not good enough because my dmg was not high enough.So i had to make a reaserch to see how can i increase the kitten dps without changing to much the build.

Tough love.

Oxxy.7068:

ShadowMaster.5708:

Also, I don’t want super fast ultra speed to get the reward when i do a dungeon… I run dungeons for fun, not reward.

Fighting > Ressing zerk players

What makes you think i (as a zerk player) don’t play for fun?

Thats not what i ment. I ment that i PREFER to have non zerks in my party because MOST zerk users don’t know how to dodge so they are lying on the floor most of the time which isn’t fun for me. I am not saying you don’t play for fun

ShadowMaster.5708:

Oxxy.7068:

ShadowMaster.5708:

Also, I don’t want super fast ultra speed to get the reward when i do a dungeon… I run dungeons for fun, not reward.

Fighting > Ressing zerk players

What makes you think i (as a zerk player) don’t play for fun?

Thats not what i ment. I ment that i PREFER to have non zerks in my party because MOST zerk users don’t know how to dodge so they are lying on the floor most of the time which isn’t fun for me. I am not saying you don’t play for fun

Then I believe your issue is with ppl who do not know how to dodge and use active defences.

Mosspit,
Yes it is.
Progression guilds with speed clears are such,Even if the members know you personally they still will want max performance.

ShadowMaster,
Don’t talk for all glass canons like they all are bad.Yes the pugs may be,but NOT every berzerker is bad in his role.There are some really great dpsers who run only with their guilds or close friends and they never pug.
Please don’t talk in plural like you know every bloody berzerker.

Tequatl hates zerks as well… he decorated the zone with their bodies. Dozens of them. But many baddies saved their life playing ranged weapons

I am a full zerker scholar and I was killing the adds on the Tequatl encounter. I guess there’s room for everybody

Zelyhn.8069:

I am a full zerker scholar and I was killing the adds on the Tequatl encounter. I guess there’s room for everybody

But you only want so many of those at each spot anyway.

True, but you wouldn’t want clerics instead.

Mesket.5728:

Tequatl hates zerks as well… he decorated the zone with their bodies. Dozens of them. But many baddies saved their life playing ranged weapons

Funny, cause I held out pretty well on my wet tissue-paper armored zerker ele.

I’d say most of those bodies were PVT scrubs, because at least I know how to dodge/jump (although I had to get used to the timing on that jump).

100% guaranteed that the vast majority of faceplanters at Tequatl are blue/green geared PVwhatever wearing scrubs.

Spending badges of jumping on a pvt set just so the poison doesnt instagib me when people are useless with turrets. Yay no crit world boss! :/

lol yes, sure… all the dead players were cleric and pvt and the guys rocking the event were the zerk elite lol, exactly how it happened; please I need more butter for my popcorn and less stats for an event that can’t even be crit.

(so people saying they were actually zerking the boss are so smart to just use 1/3 of the character, as strong, same power, as a PVT but without the VT; very smart)

No, but zerker players are better than trashgear players, full stop.

i prefer to be with zerkers than pvt / clerics… even the naked TA run (with dps build / zerk trinkets) I did ended up being faster than some PUGs with full gear….

And to me, ppl that should not be using zerks are new comers to encounters. But once you know them… not going zerk is pulling the group down ^^.

Finally, like many said, being zerk does not mean you can’t have a partial support build or use support utilities like WoR / SoA / …

I use a hybrid of valks and zerker gear with cav trinkets. Would that make me only half a casual or am I full fledged casual? Most classes already have easy ways to get perma fury (ele, warrior, power engy).

Well it’s probably because people down alot in berserker gear. Of course the reasonable explanation for that is because eventually any class (even guardians) simply run out of survival skills/dodges and if the dps of your party is too low, the guy in berserker gear doing the most damage will be the first to down and deemed a “noob zerk”. It’s debatable if it’s worth it to be down so much but doing so much damage while you’re up, but I don’t pug alot so I’ll leave that discussion to the rest of you.

Syn Sity.5826:

Well it’s probably because people down alot in berserker gear. Of course the reasonable explanation for that is because eventually any class (even guardians) simply run out of survival skills/dodges and if the dps of your party is too low, the guy in berserker gear doing the most damage will be the first to down and deemed a “noob zerk”. It’s debatable if it’s worth it to be down so much but doing so much damage while you’re up, but I don’t pug alot so I’ll leave that discussion to the rest of you.

You said just what i am thinking ’mon.

With the way you guys are all describing, I wouldn’t blame others for zerk hate on those grounds as well. If their experience with berserkers is someone who rushes ahead, face plants over and over, then QQs at the group for not doing it right, then what are they supposed to think?

Maybe its just because I PUG a lot, but the most important thing I’ve learned running berserker is how to survive regardless of circumstance. Sure, it is annoying when I charge ahead on my zerker thief only to find everyone is pole positioning and max range, but my death is my fault for not gauging the group properly and not withdrawing fast enough to realize that fact. It is a lesson I learned a long time ago: never build under the assumption that someone else is going to carry you.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

With the way you guys are all describing, I wouldn’t blame others for zerk hate on those grounds as well. If their experience with berserkers is someone who rushes ahead, face plants over and over, then QQs at the group for not doing it right, then what are they supposed to think?

Maybe its just because I PUG a lot, but the most important thing I’ve learned running berserker is how to survive regardless of circumstance. Sure, it is annoying when I charge ahead on my zerker thief only to find everyone is pole positioning and max range, but my death is my fault for not gauging the group properly and not withdrawing fast enough to realize that fact. It is a lesson I learned a long time ago: never build under the assumption that someone else is going to carry you.

I think you are mistaking being carried for a player carrying their weight.

Syn Sity.5826:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

With the way you guys are all describing, I wouldn’t blame others for zerk hate on those grounds as well. If their experience with berserkers is someone who rushes ahead, face plants over and over, then QQs at the group for not doing it right, then what are they supposed to think?

Maybe its just because I PUG a lot, but the most important thing I’ve learned running berserker is how to survive regardless of circumstance. Sure, it is annoying when I charge ahead on my zerker thief only to find everyone is pole positioning and max range, but my death is my fault for not gauging the group properly and not withdrawing fast enough to realize that fact. It is a lesson I learned a long time ago: never build under the assumption that someone else is going to carry you.

I think you are mistaking being carried for a player carrying their weight.

I wouldn’t call it a mistake. A disagreement is more like it. I don’t have nearly the demands that other people on this forum do.