Guild Wars 2

As I read all these complaints day after day, bad pugs, people won’t listen, run this build, use this gear, all I can say in return is why don’t we have henchmen &/or heroes?

A lot of people say henchmen/heroes can’t be done, the AI will be bad, it will kill teamwork & socializing, that’s all speculation. What WILL happen is that inexperienced players will learn the dungeons for themselves without pressure & experienced players won’t have anymore pugging headaches, it’s a win-win.

In the end, pugging is not about socializing, it’s about getting the dungeon done as fast and efficient as possible. Dungeon runners will be all friendly and sociable until you mess up, unless you play with friends or guild mates.

“Massively Multiplayer Online”

Or, unless you play with people that aren’t kittens.

I PUG more or less daily and I have yet to get a single group where people behave bad because someone messes up.

We all meet cool people in pugs, but those aren’t the stories that are interesting to tell. “Hey I met a cool guy in CoE the other day, he was pretty good. I put him on my friend list, now we play every now and then.”

And how would you make said heroes/henchmen?
With a random chance to dodge enemy attacks? Or with a set chance that will make them either dodge all the dangerous one or miss all of them?

JTGuevara.9018:

Trying to appease speed runners

You’re in the dungeon forums bro. The abandoned wasteland where only the hardcore PvErs remain.

All of us here would LOVE if they appeased to speed runners, rather than ignoring us with their pathetic temp content.

Flissy.4093:

“Massively Multiplayer Online”

So much that people rather solo dungeons using out of map cheats than join teams, what a win!
Anyhow, I would give the OP 10000 + for this thread. It’s something I’ve been asking for months and months, but I have doubts it will happen.
And those who say that running dungeons with team is some kind of social…well, I don’t think you pug often. I am lucky if I even receive a “Hi” back, when I join a team and greet them. Then it goes silence, and if you’re lucky again in the end you will see a “Ty bb”. - How social, how beautiful! -
Or maybe the real meaning of this is: bad pugs join teams so that arguments and insulting can start and actually make dungeons a lovely social expression of hate.
In my experience (Running dungeons every day, forced with pugs) It’s kinda: 6/10 teams aforementioned. “Hi” “hi” (Long pause of silence dungeon-run-wide) “Ty bb” “bb”.
3/10 some dude in menopause that will shout at anyone for anything, just to feel pro and above the others.
1/10 won’t even reply to a “hi” and leave the team without a word, sometimes even too early that they don’t get finaly reward, lol xD
0.0000000000001/10 awesome, social teams with nice conversations all over the dungeon.

It’s not speculation. Pets/minions and NPCs are already stealing aggro when they’re around. I just wish they never attack or get aggro at all. So yeah, the AI is just that bad.

Some people are just semi-masochistic and pug knowing full well what to expect so they can get a cool story about the latest ‘BHB’, even if they already are in a dungeon running guild.

Black Box.9312:

Some people are just semi-masochistic and pug knowing full well what to expect so they can get a cool story about the latest ‘BHB’, even if they already are in a dungeon running guild.

Who doesn’t have friends and is not in a big guild (And won’t join one for many reasons) how is supposed to run dungeons? I am just curious to hear.

Pip.2094:

Black Box.9312:

Some people are just semi-masochistic and pug knowing full well what to expect so they can get a cool story about the latest ‘BHB’, even if they already are in a dungeon running guild.

Who doesn’t have friends and is not in a big guild (And won’t join one for many reasons) how is supposed to run dungeons? I am just curious to hear.

Then you would be a member of the other crowd that pugs out of necessity, in which case you still don’t really have much of a right to complain because it’s your decision to not be a part of a guild that has members willing to run dungeons.

Black Box.9312:

Pip.2094:

Black Box.9312:

Some people are just semi-masochistic and pug knowing full well what to expect so they can get a cool story about the latest ‘BHB’, even if they already are in a dungeon running guild.

Who doesn’t have friends and is not in a big guild (And won’t join one for many reasons) how is supposed to run dungeons? I am just curious to hear.

Then you would be a member of the other crowd that pugs out of necessity, in which case you still don’t really have much of a right to complain because it’s your decision to not be a part of a guild that has members willing to run dungeons.

In other words, I paid this game not just to be forced to go dps zerker builds on every character in order to make it well, I have not even the right to choose the guild to be in?

Pip.2094:

Black Box.9312:

Pip.2094:

Black Box.9312:

Some people are just semi-masochistic and pug knowing full well what to expect so they can get a cool story about the latest ‘BHB’, even if they already are in a dungeon running guild.

Who doesn’t have friends and is not in a big guild (And won’t join one for many reasons) how is supposed to run dungeons? I am just curious to hear.

Then you would be a member of the other crowd that pugs out of necessity, in which case you still don’t really have much of a right to complain because it’s your decision to not be a part of a guild that has members willing to run dungeons.

In other words, I paid this game not just to be forced to go dps zerker builds on every character in order to make it well, I have not even the right to choose the guild to be in?

No, that’s not what I said. You can think of it like you would a contract. You have every right to refuse to adhere to the terms of the contract, but the contractor in turn has every right to refuse the service to you if you disagree.

Also, the only thing that zerker builds do is make things go faster. It’s entirely possible to play without them.

Flissy.4093:

JTGuevara.9018:

Trying to appease speed runners

You’re in the dungeon forums bro. The abandoned wasteland where only the hardcore PvErs remain.

All of us here would LOVE if they appeased to speed runners, rather than ignoring us with their pathetic temp content.

And there are some of us casuals who do wish that you hardcore players would get some bones tossed to them.

A single path for each dungeon that’s hard and gives appropriate reward for that increased difficulty would be a nice addition.

That way there would still be a way for casuals to earn the tokens for the dungeon albeit at a slower pace, but the hardcore players can get their challenge in and get decent rewards for doing so.

Or something along those lines.

And I honestly think it is not too much to ask for.

But you pug when you have no other choice but to do so if you do not have 4 other friends or guild mates to run with. For whatever reason.

Seera.5916:

And there are some of us casuals who do wish that you hardcore players would get some bones tossed to them.

As I said, you’re kinda in the wrong forums then, as you are surrounded by those you dislike.

It’s a harsh reality. They may aswell rename this subforum to the Trashcan.

Flissy.4093:

Seera.5916:

And there are some of us casuals who do wish that you hardcore players would get some bones tossed to them.

As I said, you’re kinda in the wrong forums then, as you are surrounded by those you dislike.

It’s a harsh reality. They may aswell rename this subforum to the Trashcan.

I don’t dislike hard core players. I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth.

I said it would be nice if ANet would give the hardcore players something that they would like: actual permanent, challenging content. Because the content that has been coming out has been geared towards the casual player. Temporary and easy.

And that it was the hard core player’s turn to get content aimed for them.

Please tell me what part of that made you think I hate hard core players?

Seera.5916:

Flissy.4093:

Seera.5916:

And there are some of us casuals who do wish that you hardcore players would get some bones tossed to them.

As I said, you’re kinda in the wrong forums then, as you are surrounded by those you dislike.

It’s a harsh reality. They may aswell rename this subforum to the Trashcan.

I don’t dislike hard core players. I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth.

I said it would be nice if ANet would give the hardcore players something that they would like: actual permanent, challenging content. Because the content that has been coming out has been geared towards the casual player. Temporary and easy.

And that it was the hard core player’s turn to get content aimed for them.

Please tell me what part of that made you think I hate hard core players?

I must have misunderstood the term having “bones thrown at them”. Wishing something to be thrown at someone sounds fairly hostile, but apparently not.

Flissy.4093:

Seera.5916:

Flissy.4093:

Seera.5916:

And there are some of us casuals who do wish that you hardcore players would get some bones tossed to them.

As I said, you’re kinda in the wrong forums then, as you are surrounded by those you dislike.

It’s a harsh reality. They may aswell rename this subforum to the Trashcan.

I don’t dislike hard core players. I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth.

I said it would be nice if ANet would give the hardcore players something that they would like: actual permanent, challenging content. Because the content that has been coming out has been geared towards the casual player. Temporary and easy.

And that it was the hard core player’s turn to get content aimed for them.

Please tell me what part of that made you think I hate hard core players?

I must have misunderstood the term having “bones thrown at them”. Wishing something to be thrown at someone sounds fairly hostile, but apparently not.

It’s like throwing a dog a bone. Dogs like bones. I hear the phrasing a lot around where I am, so it’s something I don’t think that others might not catch.

laharl.8435:

We all meet cool people in pugs, but those aren’t the stories that are interesting to tell. “Hey I met a cool guy in CoE the other day, he was pretty good. I put him on my friend list, now we play every now and then.”

Funny story here. I was playing in TA Aether where a PUG joined. I noticed then her portrait and it was weird to see how simillar she was to me. Same face, same proffesion, same lave, same weapon and the only different thing was the hair colour. Talking about that we also noticed we both had 23 years and our birthdays would be in 2-3 weeks.

Since that moment, we started messing around about being sisters. She was my lost sister and now we run dungeons often, even my guild ask me to invite my sister to some runs when we need people to complete it lol.

Why PUG? You ask!? To help others learn the habbits so they can climb the fractal ladder own there own and/or with us. And once they get up to the higher lvls they will be alrite cause they will either know the strats or have a rough idea and will understand why people do things a different way

Sarah

JTGuevara.9018:

As I read all these complaints day after day, bad pugs, people won’t listen, run this build, use this gear, all I can say in return is why don’t we have henchmen &/or heroes?

A lot of people say henchmen/heroes can’t be done, the AI will be bad, it will kill teamwork & socializing, that’s all speculation. What WILL happen is that inexperienced players will learn the dungeons for themselves without pressure & experienced players won’t have anymore pugging headaches, it’s a win-win.

In the end, pugging is not about socializing, it’s about getting the dungeon done as fast and efficient as possible. Dungeon runners will be all friendly and sociable until you mess up, unless you play with friends or guild mates.

I usually PUG to give easy dungeons some challenge. I remember before the AC revamp last year, I’ve gotten so many PUGs that we are usually talking about stuff inside the dungeon.

It’s not always about the rewards mate… It’s about social as well.. sometimes.

Pip.2094:

Black Box.9312:

Pip.2094:

Black Box.9312:

Some people are just semi-masochistic and pug knowing full well what to expect so they can get a cool story about the latest ‘BHB’, even if they already are in a dungeon running guild.

Who doesn’t have friends and is not in a big guild (And won’t join one for many reasons) how is supposed to run dungeons? I am just curious to hear.

Then you would be a member of the other crowd that pugs out of necessity, in which case you still don’t really have much of a right to complain because it’s your decision to not be a part of a guild that has members willing to run dungeons.

In other words, I paid this game not just to be forced to go dps zerker builds on every character in order to make it well, I have not even the right to choose the guild to be in?

I believe that in w3 or spvp you will find meta builds without zerkgear.

I pug because my workschedule throws off any chance of organgized play.

I love pugging, I don’t care about being the fastest, or the most efficient. I play dungeons to have fun, and some pugs have incredibly fun characters in them. Like last night, I did Arah P4, took an hr30 to complete, had two first timers, and the people I met were awesome

If the people who frequent this forum are half as good as they pretend to be; then they should just enter a PUG with the intention to solo everything. If you expect the run to be bad, then you can’t really be upset when that ultimately becomes the reality. You can however, be pleasantly surprised if the run ends up being good. People enter PUG’s with these expectations that they’re going to be participating in a DnT/rT standard dungeon run, and then for some bizarre reason get really surprised and upset when they don’t get that. I enjoy PUG runs a lot, because I don’t hold players that aren’t in my guild/on my friends list to the same standard(s).

TL;DR People should lower their expectations and work on their own play, they’ll enjoy PUG’ing a lot more.

I PUG because not everybody in my guild wants to do the exact same content I want to do at the exact same time. I ask in guild first, and then I either pad out the party with PUGs or PUG it all, depending on the interest.

tbh i do all my instance with pug cuz guilds are unreliable… true you do get a good party with guild but you need timing to get people online. i dont have time to waste on an aranged team when i can do the run myself with random people. + my main is a minion master necromancer and a beastmaster ranger so ill let you guess what i think of those so called zerk warrior party. I do have a zerk warrior and a dps guardian as well as a Phantasm mesmer but they are so boooooooorrrrriiiiiing id rather run with non professionnal who are more open minded yet pull their weight for the same results (and twice as less queue time). It doesnt mather if it takes longer as long as the stuff gets done mainly because i got all my time and i wont be doing it more then once a day anyway.

Of course this often result in carrying bad player around but who cares i can always kick them mid way if they dont behave.

Question would be more like why waste time making an organised party to begin with when youl spend no time pugging one and get the thing done by the time you get your so called organised party ready. Behing picky just makes thing longuer for nothing.

I enjoy playing with different people. You learn new things. Diversity is the spice of life.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

If the people who frequent this forum are half as good as they pretend to be; then they should just enter a PUG with the intention to solo everything. If you expect the run to be bad, then you can’t really be upset when that ultimately becomes the reality. You can however, be pleasantly surprised if the run ends up being good. People enter PUG’s with these expectations that they’re going to be participating in a DnT/rT standard dungeon run, and then for some bizarre reason get really surprised and upset when they don’t get that. I enjoy PUG runs a lot, because I don’t hold players that aren’t in my guild/on my friends list to the same standard(s).

TL;DR People should lower their expectations and work on their own play, they’ll enjoy PUG’ing a lot more.

This is pretty much what I do. And then an ungrateful ****ard writes in party chat “you never res”.

Well of course I’m not, you four are basically my meat shields, slightly extra DPS and if I go down then hopefully you’ll see how much I’ve been carrying and you’ll res.

mahariel.4981:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

If the people who frequent this forum are half as good as they pretend to be; then they should just enter a PUG with the intention to solo everything. If you expect the run to be bad, then you can’t really be upset when that ultimately becomes the reality. You can however, be pleasantly surprised if the run ends up being good. People enter PUG’s with these expectations that they’re going to be participating in a DnT/rT standard dungeon run, and then for some bizarre reason get really surprised and upset when they don’t get that. I enjoy PUG runs a lot, because I don’t hold players that aren’t in my guild/on my friends list to the same standard(s).

TL;DR People should lower their expectations and work on their own play, they’ll enjoy PUG’ing a lot more.

This is pretty much what I do. And then an ungrateful ****ard writes in party chat “you never res”.

Well of course I’m not, you four are basically my meat shields, slightly extra DPS and if I go down then hopefully you’ll see how much I’ve been carrying and you’ll res.

You contradict yourself.

Even meat shield have their utility and even i can see the use of a full life player on the field who actualy takes some of those hits for me or divert attentions. a lone pro is a dead pro a team of noob who work togueter will more then often make it trought. Learn to be less of an individualist and land a hand. I see a guy whos playing like you mexican i warn him before kicking out if he dont behave. Teamwork is what realy gets stuff done and ill always land a hand to anyone i see in a pinch before thinking for myself as long as theres a slight possibility of him getting back up, that kind of solo attitude wont get you anywhere and by not lending your hand to others you actualy hurt your team more then you help.

noobgood.8762:

mahariel.4981:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

If the people who frequent this forum are half as good as they pretend to be; then they should just enter a PUG with the intention to solo everything. If you expect the run to be bad, then you can’t really be upset when that ultimately becomes the reality. You can however, be pleasantly surprised if the run ends up being good. People enter PUG’s with these expectations that they’re going to be participating in a DnT/rT standard dungeon run, and then for some bizarre reason get really surprised and upset when they don’t get that. I enjoy PUG runs a lot, because I don’t hold players that aren’t in my guild/on my friends list to the same standard(s).

TL;DR People should lower their expectations and work on their own play, they’ll enjoy PUG’ing a lot more.

This is pretty much what I do. And then an ungrateful ****ard writes in party chat “you never res”.

Well of course I’m not, you four are basically my meat shields, slightly extra DPS and if I go down then hopefully you’ll see how much I’ve been carrying and you’ll res.

You contradict yourself.

Meat shields in the sense of with them there they can eat hits and get me through content quicker, but I would most likely be able to do a lot of it myself, so I’m not seeing the contradiction.

Even meat shield have their utility and even i can see the use of a full life player on the field who actualy takes some of those hits for me or divert attentions. a lone pro is a dead pro a team of noob who work togueter will more then often make it trought. Learn to be less of an individualist and land a hand. I see a guy whos playing like you mexican i warn him before kicking out if he dont behave. Teamwork is what realy gets stuff done and ill always land a hand to anyone i see in a pinch before thinking for myself as long as theres a slight possibility of him getting back up, that kind of solo attitude wont get you anywhere and by not lending your hand to others you actualy hurt your team more then you help.

Just now at Lupicus (left the group after second attempt because I was getting some sick lag, teleporting everywhere and getting downed by swipes which I was fully dodging on my screen so I didn’t want to be a burden on them anymore) they all faceplanted first time round (bear in mind i’m getting like almost a second of skill delay even now) and I’m soloing phase 3 when I get sprayed with no dodges left. Trying to res them while they were still downed would have done nothing besides make me eat a shadowstep, plus besides the ele, the rest of the party were pretty poor (a guardian without a GS, hammer against Lupicus … what?).

Even meat shield have their use because alone i doubt youl manage it. or at least you wont manage it within a time as short as a 5 man cell would it will just waste everyone time. Im not saying you should revive just anyone there do are some lost cause wich cant be revived without risking to loose your own life but most people do deserve a help.

Hmm because people have lives outside of GW2 and not all of my friends are available at the same time. This is the primary reason why I PUG.

There’s days were I would rather 4 man dungeons, if I can. If they added heroes I’d give them a try they can’t be any worse than some of the players I’ve ran with.

That said I’ve met some nice players from PUGing too it’s not all bad but it really is some kind of twisted reverse Russian Roulette most of the time.

Sometimes though when I am playing with a particularly bad PUG i imagine that they are just that, a pug, and they don’t play so well cause their paws have trouble hitting the proper keys, at least that way I can laugh out loud while I die on the inside.

I don’t know, I have a longer list of followers than my list of friends. Maybe because I pug a lot? My personal victory today is to organize an absolutely first time SE story dungeon with the rest of the group are new to the game. I was able to brainwashed 3 of them (guard, ele and war) to the way of meta dungeon, ha! We wiped a lot but it’s so fun. I have seen the precious 25 stacks of might and the Wall of reflection from a pug run. I am content, at least, for tonight.

JTGuevara.9018:

In the end, pugging is not about socializing, it’s about getting the dungeon done as fast and efficient as possible. Dungeon runners will be all friendly and sociable until you mess up, unless you play with friends or guild mates.

and this started when the play the way you want changed to grind to your Death….

When there wasn t the necessity of amassing huge amount of gold to equip your charaters, groups were more friendly…and people didn t count the seconds lost in a dungeon run….

LordByron.8369:

…

When there wasn t the necessity of amassing huge amount of gold to equip your charaters, groups were more friendly…and people didn t count the seconds lost in a dungeon run….

Not really…

JTGuevara.9018:

A lot of people say henchmen/heroes can’t be done, the AI will be bad, it will kill teamwork & socializing, that’s all speculation.

If it follows the same npc/pet “intelligence”, so it’ll be bad. And “teamwork & socializing” is almost non-existent since people only want to make fast and easy money, no one cares about the other, just “5k+ AP full zerker lvl 80 know how to play, only guards and wars (mesmers maybe)”

On the other hand, I think every dungeon should be redone:

• Add difficulties so new players can learn better without being punished
• Rethink the reward values; AC is easier and faster than CoE, but guess where you can get more money
• Make some dungeon paths smaller (fractals included). A lot of people can’t play 3-4 hours a day, and some paths may take up to a hour to finish. See how you wasted too much time to get facepalming rewards?
• Fix problems. Exploit here, skip there, stack then. This isn’t the way we should run dungeons, but sometimes there is too much trash on the way (Arah p1) that there’s no reason to stop and kill

Hell, with so many nice suggestions, why isn’t anything done? Oh of course, we aren’t paying for gems, so there’s no problem to lose some players that won’t spend money

or more simply

BALANCE PVE professions…..
Just to start with something

LordByron.8369:

or more simply

BALANCE PVE professions…..
Just to start with something

There is some truth in this statement, however I want to remind you that you can not balance the lack of skill. Eles are great damage dealers already , however a lot of ele players run horrible builds for dungeons (aurashare for example) with horrible gearsets (celestial would be godly compared to it), even if you buff eles, those people wont go. Same goes for rangers, they can deal very decent dps, however 99% are longbow camping. Now of course some things can be balanced out, for example how necros bring very little use to your party, but tbh there needs to be a way to really show players how much of an anchor they really are for their groups. (inb4 a quadrillion h4t3r5 show up).

Agony.3542:

LordByron.8369:

or more simply

BALANCE PVE professions…..
Just to start with something

There is some truth in this statement, however I want to remind you that you can not balance the lack of skill. Eles are great damage dealers already , however a lot of ele players run horrible builds for dungeons (aurashare for example) with horrible gearsets (celestial would be godly compared to it), even if you buff eles, those people wont go. Same goes for rangers, they can deal very decent dps, however 99% are longbow camping. Now of course some things can be balanced out, for example how necros bring very little use to your party, but tbh there needs to be a way to really show players how much of an anchor they really are for their groups. (inb4 a quadrillion h4t3r5 show up).

a couple suggestion…

-If you pug…celestial may be a great choice for ele. (that s why i bring one along my zerk set…you can almost solo difficult bosses…if you think your pug Group is not good enough).
-the bunker ele is highly situational, yet can be useful
-if you take ele for dps, is probably because you didn t find a 5th warriors expecially if you pug unless you are playing coe, cof and other stuff (even in AC dps ele needs someone to keep him alive despite what people say kohler will 2 shot you with basic attack).
-all balance is done for pvp, that hurt some profession and kept warriors and guardians godlike in pve since release..
-don t trust dps tests…..they are made mostly in situation not representing the real game.

Said this, every profession is viable.
Issue is, a superskilled necro, is as effective as a beginner warrior…….

This led to what we have now…. i already screened many times the LFG board full of “only heavies”….

And its also one of the reason if a really huge part of the istance community rerolled an heavy….they lost faith in anet after one year repeating the same stuff they shouldn t even be told.

If you want to promote pugging the only viable ways are class balance and less grinding (less reason to count seconds….).

One or both will solve the issue.

LordByron.8369:

Agony.3542:

LordByron.8369:

or more simply

BALANCE PVE professions…..
Just to start with something

There is some truth in this statement, however I want to remind you that you can not balance the lack of skill. Eles are great damage dealers already , however a lot of ele players run horrible builds for dungeons (aurashare for example) with horrible gearsets (celestial would be godly compared to it), even if you buff eles, those people wont go. Same goes for rangers, they can deal very decent dps, however 99% are longbow camping. Now of course some things can be balanced out, for example how necros bring very little use to your party, but tbh there needs to be a way to really show players how much of an anchor they really are for their groups. (inb4 a quadrillion h4t3r5 show up).

a couple suggestion…

-If you pug…celestial may be a great choice for ele. (that s why i bring one along my zerk set)
-the bunker ele is highly situational, yet can be useful
-if you take ele for dps, is probably because you didn t find a 5th warriors expecially if you pug
-all balance is done for pvp, that hurt some profession and kept warriors and guardians godlike in pve since release..
-don t trust dps tests…..they are made mostly in situation not representing the real game.

Said this, every profession is viable.
Issue is, a superskilled necro, is as effective as a beginner warrior…….

This led to what we have now…. i already screened many times the LFG board full of “only heavies”….

And its also one of the reason if a really huge part of the istance community rerolled an heavy….they lost faith in anet after one year repeating the same stuff they shouldn t even be told.

Byron, I think you underestimate elementalist damage. They can have much higher than a warriors, but the skill ceiling is indeed higher. Good players know this. Why play with players who don’t?

LordByron.8369:

a couple suggestion…

-If you pug…celestial may be a great choice for ele. (that s why i bring one along my zerk set)
-the bunker ele is highly situational, yet can be useful
-if you take ele for dps, is probably because you didn t find a 5th warriors expecially if you pug
-all balance is done for pvp, that hurt some profession and kept warriors and guardians godlike in pve since release..
-don t trust dps tests…..they are made mostly in situation not representing the real game.

Said this, every profession is viable.
Issue is, a superskilled necro, is as effective as a beginner warrior…….

This led to what we have now…. i already screened many times the LFG board full of “only heavies”….

And its also one of the reason if a really huge part of the istance community rerolled an heavy….they lost faith in anet after one year repeating the same stuff they shouldn t even be told.

A couple of suggestions:
-read: I’ve said celestial would be GODLY compared to what they run
-no
-no, ele can deal 1,5-3x as much damage as a warrior, I would rather have a good ele than a good warrior in my group
-true, pvp balancing screws up pve viability, a split would be very appreciated
-I’m not talking about dps tests, I’m talking about a way to actually show players how much they contributed to the fight (damage overall, heal overall, overheal overall, deaths overall, etc.)
- a superskilled necro still wont bring buffs to the party, no banners, no spotter, no frost spirit, not even considerable amounts of non unique buffs (might, etc.)

EDITH on the last one: Sadly it is true. While I liked the new bosses anet impleneted in the TA newfu, that change came with a lot of sadness aswell. A path beeing removed instead of a bug fixed, unskippable cutscenes that make you not run the dungeon at all and a lot of lolaetherblade. Fotm is very similar, while new fractals were added, the element of a somewhat skilled and responive play beeing rewarded was removed by adding scripted agony. With every new update Anet brings there seems to be some good stuff overshadowed by a lot of bad stuff.

LittleLepton.8915:

Byron, I think you underestimate elementalist damage. They can have much higher than a warriors, but the skill ceiling is indeed higher. Good players know this. Why play with players who don’t?

i don t….
I know the usual stuff people post here and on youtube…

Good players can understand what happens in those youtube video you watched…..they also replied explaining how most of those vids are just showing tests not really working in game….

The vet giant test is a BURST test for example…when the giant dies ele is on full cd ……after that point he would just lose 90% dps dropping his sustained a lot.

Most Others require warrior support.

People already answered….but few people read and tried.

If you pug with an ele unless you can abuse FGS you won t deal as much as ANY zerk warrior even a GS one.

Best part is that without a good guardian you will be wiping the floor costantly also….

Before anyone attempting to say l2p, they should do a quick research on the fllowing words:
-reaction window
-cast time

@agony:

lets see your dps in a random pug party…..i wan t to see it….
On the forum everyone is pro….in game i never meet all those pros….mostly because they never pugs.
Btw there were some threads in ele section that disproofs the Whole ele dps theory last month…….
most still believe an ele can do 18+ K with hammer 1 normally.
And stop considering FGS dps….if you split it in a Whole dungeon the dps drops….
In coe i m sure an ele does 3X….

I find it quite amusing how you measure the viability of classes, you know bad players in PUGs n stuff.
Cheers

Ele dps is 1 of the highest and thats without fgs.

Any of you two wants to set up a party for PUG Ascalonian catacombs?

This thread is about pugging, and since you seem not to pug a lot i just want to disprove your theories fast.

Ditto that. Lightning hammer is ridiculously good on bosses and a normal rotation in D/F can help me clear 3 elite dredge and rally on the 4th quickly if I happen to carry the group.

I’d totally go, but I’m at work away from my computer.

Agony.3542:

LordByron.8369:

or more simply

BALANCE PVE professions…..
Just to start with something

There is some truth in this statement, however I want to remind you that you can not balance the lack of skill. Eles are great damage dealers already , however a lot of ele players run horrible builds for dungeons (aurashare for example) with horrible gearsets (celestial would be godly compared to it), even if you buff eles, those people wont go. Same goes for rangers, they can deal very decent dps, however 99% are longbow camping. Now of course some things can be balanced out, for example how necros bring very little use to your party, but tbh there needs to be a way to really show players how much of an anchor they really are for their groups. (inb4 a quadrillion h4t3r5 show up).

longbow camping? God sake you speak like if sword was the solution to everything alleluia well sword doesnt work for beast mastery and i actualy run beast master so take a guess why i run multi targeting weapon. What makes everyone think longbow suck is those fools who just spam the auto attack on a marksmanship build and stick to the same weapon for hours. The weapon can pull its weight when you actualy use the cooldowns for real and constantly swap between it and something else. Sword is only good for single target melee boss kill or cluster target mob fights.