Guild Wars 2

1.) It’s going to help maintain the player base by encouraging play in all game modes, and as a result minimize burn-out while the new x-pac comes out. A very high number of players have left gw2 for other games after being burnt out of one game mode.

When this armor comes out, you will have the opportunity to recruit fully geared WvW and PvP players to help you pug, join your raiding guilds, expand your player base/friends list etc. You already have a ton of primarily PvP players in your community. You have less WvW players because they have to have separate gear sets for wvw and pve on each toon. Now they won’t have to. These are players that are used to working as a team, supporting each other, positioning, and communicating!

2.) PVE Raid rewards are still VERY special.

Nobody else can get that skin or acheivement. Nobody else has the same access to fast and cheap ascended armor. Your rewards are still unique and very top notch compared to other game modes. They have promised to make the time and cost on par with pve legendary armor.

3.) Raiding does not take more effort, time, or coordination than other game modes.

For those of you that play all game modes like I do, who has a higher chance of succeeding: 1.) a gvg team that has 8 experienced and 7 unexperienced 2.) a raid guild that has 5 experienced and 5 un-experienced or 3.) a pvp team that has 3 experienced and 2 un-experienced? Is it possible for less than 10 players to succeed in a raid? Is it possible for less than 5 players to succeed in PvP?

Your enemy in WvW and PvP has a brain. It’s always changing and adapting to try to beat you in a way that’s not easy for you to predict.

Thinking about how much your food costs for raids or how difficult it can be to find groups? WvW players have been spending money on food and recruiting teams larger than 10 to raid since day 1. I don’t know what I can say. Keep in mind that for the first several years of gw2 that both pvp and wvw had near-0 rewards.

crunchyraisin.6054:

3.) Raiding does not take more effort, time, or coordination than other game modes.

Yes it does, in regards to the special rewards. You can grind the WvW armor by following a tag and pressing ‘1’. It’s a very real possibility. Yes, not all the WvW players do that and yes, it is not much fun. But you can do it. You can do virtually the same in PvP. No tag, but you get the idea. You can’t do the same with the raid armor. Yes, the fights are scripted, but no, it doesn’t make them trivial.

That said, I’m fine with the current situation. It’s perfectly fine for the other game modes to have their own ways of attaining the same functionality as long as the raid armor remain exclusive in some way. Unique skins are a perfectly valid way to do that. By the way, the Mistforged Triumphant serves the same purpose for WvW, although it doesn’t technically require more skill. The amount of dedication needed, however, is respectable.

@Feanor I hadn’t considered that people would grind out the armor without intent to play that game mode at a high level. So while that is a very good point, I feel like my other two points can each stand on their own as reasons why this does more good for the game than bad.

It’s also worth noting that we don’t know for sure that legendary pvp and wvw gifts will be grindable. It sure does seem very likely though. I can’t even think of how they could make it not grind-able. Winning daily ATs? Having to get a certain number of kills in an hour? A whole nother bucket of problems with that last idea…

They did it right with introducing more ways to acquire legendary armor imo. As someone who already owns the raid armor, im glad for others who dont like that kind of content to get the possibility of getting armor with stat swapping. At the same time im pleased that the skin of the raid armor stays exclusive to raids.

Jojo.6140:

They did it right with introducing more ways to acquire legendary armor imo. As someone who already owns the raid armor, im glad for others who dont like that kind of content to get the possibility of getting armor with stat swapping. At the same time im pleased that the skin of the raid armor stays exclusive to raids.

To piggyback off this.

And now they don’t have to compromise on quality content to appease the whining.

Giving Legie armor to the other game modes makes sense.

What ikpissed about is that the didnt even make a set for those. Literally went the halfarsed way and jump dumped the purple name on existing skins and riskins of those. 0 effort.

“Oh you wanted legie armor?”
“yus pls”
“Ok we’re gonna take the years long pvp skins and the reskins of the wvw track reward that have effort put into them or any effect at all and give ,en the purple tag”
“But what about cool skins like the raids once? It only took you a year (twice) to make them so now it should be faster”
“…….”

And pvpers/wvwers wonder why their game modes are the way they are.

zealex.9410:

Giving Legie armor to the other game modes makes sense.

What ikpissed about is that the didnt even make a set for those. Literally went the halfarsed way and jump dumped the purple name on existing skins and riskins of those. 0 effort.

“Oh you wanted legie armor?”
“yus pls”
“Ok we’re gonna take the years long pvp skins and the reskins of the wvw track reward that have effort put into them or any effect at all and give ,en the purple tag”
“But what about cool skins like the raids once? It only took you a year (twice) to make them so now it should be faster”
“…….”

And pvpers/wvwers wonder why their game modes are the way they are.

To be fair, at least for WvW there’s a longtime investment for an Armor set which makes is one white hood away from making you Tyrael from Diablo.

I think the larger cause is twofold:

- Legendary Armor took a lot of resources, naturally we can make the argument that since the tech was made, it should be easier this time around. Even so, that’s still time taken away from players who can actually use this Legendary Armor and it’s QoL more than current raiders.

- Not everyone was happy with the result. Nearly everyone I know hated how the Light armor came out, but when you got three very different styled light-classes, I have no idea what kind of design you could make that would fit all three professions. Leather Armor was another trenchcoat, mind you a really cool looking one imo, but one nevertheless. Heavy seemed to be the only one that got some appreciation. Overall, the cosmetics are an entirely different entity and I doubt WvWers would have liked waiting another year for another cosmetic when they want the functionality.

This is a good change. This is the best compromise and it does allow rewards for future raids to be unhindered by complaints since I believe just about any Legendary Reward has the functionality available elsewhere.

crunchyraisin.6054:

@Feanor I hadn’t considered that people would grind out the armor without intent to play that game mode at a high level. So while that is a very good point, I feel like my other two points can each stand on their own as reasons why this does more good for the game than bad.

I don’t disagree with your overall assessment, just with that particular argument. I’ve supported the idea of WvW getting the next legendary set in the past and I’m happy with how the situation turned out.

I’d be surprised if the gifts turn out to be locked behind something fancy. Thinking about the game as a whole, it is usually the precursor that has more complicated requirements, while the gifts are mostly material sinks. There are the exploration gifts, but they aren’t exactly difficult to get either.

Sykper.6583:

zealex.9410:

Giving Legie armor to the other game modes makes sense.

What ikpissed about is that the didnt even make a set for those. Literally went the halfarsed way and jump dumped the purple name on existing skins and riskins of those. 0 effort.

“Oh you wanted legie armor?”
“yus pls”
“Ok we’re gonna take the years long pvp skins and the reskins of the wvw track reward that have effort put into them or any effect at all and give ,en the purple tag”
“But what about cool skins like the raids once? It only took you a year (twice) to make them so now it should be faster”
“…….”

And pvpers/wvwers wonder why their game modes are the way they are.

To be fair, at least for WvW there’s a longtime investment for an Armor set which makes is one white hood away from making you Tyrael from Diablo.

I think the larger cause is twofold:

- Legendary Armor took a lot of resources, naturally we can make the argument that since the tech was made, it should be easier this time around. Even so, that’s still time taken away from players who can actually use this Legendary Armor and it’s QoL more than current raiders.

- Not everyone was happy with the result. Nearly everyone I know hated how the Light armor came out, but when you got three very different styled light-classes, I have no idea what kind of design you could make that would fit all three professions. Leather Armor was another trenchcoat, mind you a really cool looking one imo, but one nevertheless. Heavy seemed to be the only one that got some appreciation. Overall, the cosmetics are an entirely different entity and I doubt WvWers would have liked waiting another year for another cosmetic when they want the functionality.

This is a good change. This is the best compromise and it does allow rewards for future raids to be unhindered by complaints since I believe just about any Legendary Reward has the functionality available elsewhere.

I dont dissagree, this is the easiest way to go about it. Its just that raids got an actual legendary armor meanwhile pvp and wvw got somethong closer to an invisible legendary.

Its just wierd that they made the tech to only use it one to its fullest. Now what else wil ever have this transforming/living armor tech? Gemstore outfits?

Ppl can argue that one set looks ugly and the other doeasnt but i dont think anyone can argue that they had alot of work and they are unique compaired to everything else ingame.

Correct we can argue that wvwers w8ed long enough but sonce this isnt a pressing issue for pvp the devs have the freedom to fully deliver a legendary set to pvp.

Actually at this moment PvP in the NA needs an infusion of new blood. I believe this would be an incentive for both gamemodes.

raiders should be very angry about legendary armor, even with shadow abyss you come out looking like a pastel easter egg.

thrag.9740:

raiders should be very angry about legendary armor, even with shadow abyss you come out looking like a pastel easter egg.

FeelsTerribleMan

thrag.9740:

raiders should be very angry about legendary armor, even with shadow abyss you come out looking like a pastel easter egg.

I don’t know how difficult it would be to make Legendary Armor, or any armor for that matter, work with most of the dyes in the game. I certainly don’t expect any ordinary dye, even more expensive ones, to work with Legendary Armor.

I do like to think though that most Raiders would have more thicker skin earning their Envoy Armor and not caring too much about how their favorite dyes aren’t working with it and just experimenting with the literal hundreds of other ones to get what they want.

Sykper.6583:

thrag.9740:

raiders should be very angry about legendary armor, even with shadow abyss you come out looking like a pastel easter egg.

I don’t know how difficult it would be to make Legendary Armor, or any armor for that matter, work with most of the dyes in the game. I certainly don’t expect any ordinary dye, even more expensive ones, to work with Legendary Armor.

I do like to think though that most Raiders would have more thicker skin earning their Envoy Armor and not caring too much about how their favorite dyes aren’t working with it and just experimenting with the literal hundreds of other ones to get what they want.

You would expect from a main selling point to function properly. What anyone likes to look like is up to them and since many of the dyes just look washed off thats hardly possible. Exelriementing is good but simply because you are curious not just because half the otption hardly make a diff in the armor.

Just as a perspective, Heavy Armor was the first one I crafted which has that lovely ‘shine’ that interferes at will with dozens or in my case hundreds of dyes I have unlocked. But I don’t recall any of the sets having as a selling point that they would be ‘All Dye Compatible’, only that they would be ‘Legendary Quality’.

I suppose I’ve gotten used to it, as a heavy armor wearer I really dig things like the Mistward Leggings that came from Revenant, which were troublesome because every single heavy piece of equipment I had to synergize with them that wasn’t the same set was ‘darker’ by contrast. I don’t want to stray too far from the topic at hand, but ultimately I realized and understood the limitations that the current GW2 system had with customization.

Out of all the concerns and issues in this game, Legendary Armor being compatible with all dyes is not even close to the top of the list. It’s a skin just like any other. I could care less if only 20% of the dyes in the game now, and in the future work with my Legendary Heavy Armor. Why? Because we are capable of previewing dyes with the Trading Post and exchanging them around, and that the Legendary Effects are still something utterly unique, not easily found on any other piece of armor.

I suppose heavy has a feel to it. I main a mesmer and a gaurd. Due to the love for the angelic knight theme i have ill prob make the heavy armor for sure but, i have the majority of my play time on my mesmer and i dont seem to be bored with the class there for light will be my go to.

Now, the thing is the lighr armor doesnt look like any of the light armor classes its theme doesnt really fit with any of them. You could argue it looks like ot could work with ele and honestly idk as i dislike the class. I do however love Necro and adore the feel and theme of the Mesmer.

But since the armor doesnt “look” mesmery or necroy my only other option is to give it the feel i want through dyes. Something black and green for my necro and something blueish purple for my mes (wierd colour palete ik) but sadly that too isnt an option. You see, neither the light, heavy or medium give you the bility to dye the glow they produce. The armors have ALOT of detail and the effects just adds more on top of it.

I expected that this armor would at least have 4 dye channels in all the pieces so you can do some crazy kitten with it.

Not only thats not the case but in the case of the light armor w/e you dye the crystals they will come of as the colour being washed off while the crystals have this white hue on them.

This basically kills any atempt to give the armor any class identity. Those armor took the not 9 months but 2 years. I would at least expect the light armor to allow me some basic costumisation instead of just the fabric while for w/e reason the armor glows white like a kittening lighthouse.

Its also funny i seem to be in the minority who likes it and clearly the devs didnt like that (any ppl liking it that is) and decided a last kitten you would be fine.

Id love tbh if even 20% of the dyes worked on it. At least Paul has acknowledged that the glow isnt working properly and i hope the crystals on the light armor are included in the whole glow thing.

Sykper.6583:

I do like to think though that most Raiders would have more thicker skin earning their Envoy Armor and not caring too much about how their favorite dyes aren’t working with it and just experimenting with the literal hundreds of other ones to get what they want.

Are you really misunderstanding me, or are you intentionally ignoring my point? I don’t care about the specific dye. No matter what color I choose, I get to be a washed out pastel easter egg. I want rich colors. Here is an example of what I want:
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/4b/4b63c9a7-e106-4a75-914d-adf91f0ed054_1000.jpg

Here is what I get:
http://www.chicshelfpaper.com/images/P/0210.jpg

@Thrag I know what you are saying, and you probably aren’t going to get the intended effect with the Heavy armor by using a straight red or black in this instance, the gloss is very strong (I got Shadow Abyss on my Charr and it comes out almost like it’s a darker Iron).

There are a few other armors that suffer from this gloss but nothing to this extent. Should it be fixed? I don’t know if it’s possible at this point, but I reckon some segment of the heavy users like this shine to their armor and have embraced it by abusing the colors that work with the Gloss which is essentially many primary colors with ‘white’ like Amenity.

Feel free to argue that this particular set fails to deliver on being Legendary just because it doesn’t dye right, what’s going to matter more is if people are using it anyways and if they find a color scheme that works for them.

The solution seems simple to me, there should be dyes that are glossy, that way people can choose what they want. Why is glossy restrained to the armor? Isn’t the dye system in place to offer us these choices?

Of the people I know who have legendary armor, more of them have re-skinned it (including myself) rather than wear it. So if what matters is if people are using it anyways, then it is quantifiable failing by that metric. This particular set fails to deliver on being Legendary because it doesn’t dye right.

thrag.9740:

The solution seems simple to me, there should be dyes that are glossy, that way people can choose what they want. Why is glossy restrained to the armor? Isn’t the dye system in place to offer us these choices?

Of the people I know who have legendary armor, more of them have re-skinned it (including myself) rather than wear it. So if what matters is if people are using it anyways, then it is quantifiable failing by that metric. This particular set fails to deliver on being Legendary because it doesn’t dye right.

I agree with the first point, they should continue to pump out more dyes, and maybe at some point set up a dye that’s more compatible with glossy armor.

I’m willing to gamble that the Legendary Armor getting reskinned was more likely because of the base design of it than the dyes. Heck, the outrage over another Trenchcoat probably made the Leather Variant the least popular, and the Light Armor was destined to fail as I cannot conceive of a theme for Light armor that fits Elementalists, Necromancers, AND Mesmers at the same time.

But for what it is worth, just like how Legendary Weapons are hit and miss, a Legendary Item has various reasons for being Legendary, and stat-swapping is probably the most universally accepted reason regardless of how ironically painful it would be to constantly swap out runes instead of pieces of ascended. This means that even the ‘Joke’ Legendaries are still Legendary, I abhor the pony bow but I can accept it took time and gold to make, therefore it’s still Legendary.

Sykper.6583:

thrag.9740:

The solution seems simple to me, there should be dyes that are glossy, that way people can choose what they want. Why is glossy restrained to the armor? Isn’t the dye system in place to offer us these choices?

Of the people I know who have legendary armor, more of them have re-skinned it (including myself) rather than wear it. So if what matters is if people are using it anyways, then it is quantifiable failing by that metric. This particular set fails to deliver on being Legendary because it doesn’t dye right.

I agree with the first point, they should continue to pump out more dyes, and maybe at some point set up a dye that’s more compatible with glossy armor.

I’m willing to gamble that the Legendary Armor getting reskinned was more likely because of the base design of it than the dyes. Heck, the outrage over another Trenchcoat probably made the Leather Variant the least popular, and the Light Armor was destined to fail as I cannot conceive of a theme for Light armor that fits Elementalists, Necromancers, AND Mesmers at the same time.

But for what it is worth, just like how Legendary Weapons are hit and miss, a Legendary Item has various reasons for being Legendary, and stat-swapping is probably the most universally accepted reason regardless of how ironically painful it would be to constantly swap out runes instead of pieces of ascended. This means that even the ‘Joke’ Legendaries are still Legendary, I abhor the pony bow but I can accept it took time and gold to make, therefore it’s still Legendary.

Legendary light armor could work if you were able to properly dye it.

Just about every single Necromancer I’ve spoken to can’t dig the ‘Crystals’. It’s not really a theme for them.

They would dig them more if they could dye them.

Which could help, but ultimately we are engaged in a subjective debate at the moment of which is almost pointless. I reckon if the crystals were fixed so that they could be a sort of ‘dark’ crystal closer to fit the theme of a Necromancer some of them might use it.

But my point still stands. The colorful Elementalist, the darker Necromancer and the…mesmerizing Mesmer? (Slight joke but bright colors and pink seem to be their ideal) The themes are so utterly different that it’ll be impossible to find a neutral theme that fits them all.

If I were to take a 2nd stab at Legendary Armor skins again, I would have desired something that might have taken twice or even thrice as much time. Profession-specific armor skins, 9 unique Legendary Armors that catered to a single profession each.

Would have been too much work though so /shrug.

Making armor that all 3 classes in a weight class is difficult, but it’s a whole lot harder when you make the core customization system (dyes) incompatible with it.

But honestly, this discussion is far more than anet deserves. We all know whats going on here. Anet doesn’t want to release good armor in game, because they want gem store outfits to be more appealing. 3 dye channels in legendary armor, 4 dye channels for new gem outfits.

I wish they got the same skins as us, maybe then there would be enough backlash to fix this.

crunchyraisin.6054:

3.) Raiding does not take more effort, time, or coordination than other game modes.

When it comes to obtaining rewards – such as the legendary armor – raiding sure does take more effoft. Ironically, pve/raiding is now the only game mode where you actually have to be successful in order to get legendary armor. That’s right, you can get it in both WvW and PvP through failure. That you have to fight other players instead of “dumb” AI is entirely irrelevant because you don’t have to win against those players.

Anyway, had legendary armor been advertised for all three game modes from the very start, perhaps I wouldn’t mind too much. But the way it has been hyped as that big reward for the “challenging group content” in PvE and is now simply given out as an attendance reward for both WvW and PvP, it’s ridiculous.

Hilariously enough, people have been asking for "easy mode raids "and whatever else for the past few months – and now they can just go fail in WvW/PvP and get their legendary armor like that. Somewhat speechless, but I guess that way raid PUG runs are better off without having these kind of players trying to sneak in.

I can at least understand WvW players wanting access to this as, arguably, legendary gear is the most useful in WvW where changing stat/rune combinations frequently/on the fly is pretty useful.

But rewarding PvP players with it doesn’t make sense when their game type doesn’t even use gear. PvP should be all rad skins and vanity pets—since it’s the ultimate fashionwarz game mode. Instead they can get legendary armor that looks the same as non legendary armor? Wut?

And if players think they can just afk in WvW/bot it up in sPvP, get their legendary armor, and then go play PvE—I can already see how that’s going to work out… People think that the raid scene is a bunch of elitists now, just wait until you try to link non-raid legendary armor when they ask for weapon/chest on join. It’ll be the new ultimate nub/instakick indicator.

Feanor.2358

crunchyraisin.6054

3.) Raiding does not take more effort, time, or coordination than other game modes.

Yes it does, in regards to the special rewards. You can grind the WvW armor by following a tag and pressing ‘1’. It’s a very real possibility. Yes, not all the WvW players do that and yes, it is not much fun. But you can do it.

You can also buy the raids and obtain the LI without even pressing 1. Yes, not all the players do that, and yes, it is not much fun. But is easy and fast and you can do it. I bet that not too many of the raid buyers will start a WvW armor. Because it is not as easy as buying a raid – for this you should be there for hours and actually to do something.

Satenia.9025

When it comes to obtaining rewards – such as the legendary armor – raiding sure does take more effoft. Ironically, pve/raiding is now the only game mode where you actually have to be successful in order to get legendary armor. That’s right, you can get it in both WvW and PvP through failure. That you have to fight other players instead of “dumb” AI is entirely irrelevant because you don’t have to win against those players.

A new player of the game may take your words as true. But I play this game for a while and I know a bit about WvW and Raids. To cap the LI for a week – and supposing you have a fix experienced group – you need to win 13 fights (8 minutes each). That means 104 minutes – under 2 hours. This is the hard work – less than 2 hours per week. I saw a lot of ppl saying that they can beat any encounter in 8-7-6 players or if they are 10 the fight is over with a lot of time to spare. So, even 2 hours sounds exaggerated.

Let’s see the WwW – you have a tick for pips at every 5 minutes. If you play on a server without a great WwW activity you can end having 2-3 pips every 5 minutes. You will need around 3 hours only for the Wood Chests. Not counting how long you need to cap the tickets. Probably 25-30 hours. That means around 4 hours per day / every day. Compare this with less than 2 hours per week.

I don’t know how many PvP encounters you had, but – at least for me – the human opponents were by far more difficult to fight than any AI driven monster. Maybe because the humans are more intelligent than the AI?

Cristalyan.5728:

A new player of the game may take your words as true. But I play this game for a while and I know a bit about WvW and Raids. To cap the LI for a week – and supposing you have a fix experienced group – you need to win 13 fights (8 minutes each). That means 104 minutes – under 2 hours. This is the hard work – less than 2 hours per week. I saw a lot of ppl saying that they can beat any encounter in 8-7-6 players or if they are 10 the fight is over with a lot of time to spare. So, even 2 hours sounds exaggerated.

Let’s see the WwW – you have a tick for pips at every 5 minutes. If you play on a server without a great WwW activity you can end having 2-3 pips every 5 minutes. You will need around 3 hours only for the Wood Chests. Not counting how long you need to cap the tickets. Probably 25-30 hours. That means around 4 hours per day / every day. Compare this with less than 2 hours per week.

I don’t know how many PvP encounters you had, but – at least for me – the human opponents were by far more difficult to fight than any AI driven monster. Maybe because the humans are more intelligent than the AI?

Sigh… that’s why i said obtaining rewards. I even highlighted that particular part, as I have again now. My complaint isn’t about the skill requirements of a specific game mode, but about how to obtain its rewards.

Personally, I have clocked in about 2k PvP games, have played in each and every PvP season, have averaged on platinum and scored as high as legendary division. I think that gives me some sort of understanding about how that game mode works. Nevertheless, placement is largely irrelevant because legendary armor can in theory be obtained through losing each and every game. Sure, you will need more overall games, but you can just mindlessly grind it. WvW is precisely the same, if not worse. How hard these specific game modes are is completely irrelevant because you don’t have to win to get the legendary armor rewards.

In contrast, the raid numbers you’ve made up leave me wondering. Once again, I’m familiar with this game mode, I do weekly clears, I’m on my 3rd set of legendary armor, I raid with a static group. The amount of continued work required to successfully complete these encounters may not be overly challenging to a veteran player, but they nevertheless require nothing short of success. Meantime, you can just keep failing in WvW and PvP and eventually get your legendary armor attendance reward anyway.

As such, a new player would indeed do good to heed my words. Because then they know that they can go WvW or PvP instead of raiding. Guaranteed legendary armor if you just hang around long enough.

Cristalyan.5728:

I don’t know how many PvP encounters you had, but – at least for me – the human opponents were by far more difficult to fight than any AI driven monster. Maybe because the humans are more intelligent than the AI?

Yeah, but the difference is you can lose every single one of those encounters and still get your legendary via sPvP.

Cristalyan.5728:

Feanor.2358

crunchyraisin.6054

3.) Raiding does not take more effort, time, or coordination than other game modes.

Yes it does, in regards to the special rewards. You can grind the WvW armor by following a tag and pressing ‘1’. It’s a very real possibility. Yes, not all the WvW players do that and yes, it is not much fun. But you can do it.

You can also buy the raids and obtain the LI without even pressing 1. Yes, not all the players do that, and yes, it is not much fun. But is easy and fast and you can do it. I bet that not too many of the raid buyers will start a WvW armor. Because it is not as easy as buying a raid – for this you should be there for hours and actually to do something.

Except you can’t. You can buy most of the achievements, but not all of them. Also buying 150 LI would be ridiculously expensive, so while it is possible in theory, it is more likely for someone to hit the 2k rank in WvW by pressing ‘1’ than doing it.

I don’t see why I should put so much effort, time and gold into getting just another trenchcoat for my Thief. It’s not an incentive for me to do raids. People do this for the looks and prestige, not for utility. I’m not crafting HOPE because I can change its stats, I will never do this, I craft it because it looks cool.

Medium legendary armor simply doesn’t look cool.

Faaris.8013:

I don’t see why I should put so much effort, time and gold into getting just another trenchcoat for my Thief. It’s not an incentive for me to do raids. People do this for the looks and prestige, not for utility. I’m not crafting HOPE because I can change its stats, I will never do this, I craft it because it looks cool.

Medium legendary armor simply doesn’t look cool.

People definitely craft legendaries for the utility. The same reason people buy shared inventory slots. Some utility items are just as expensive as legendaries. Why would anyone put money or effort towards those if people just want looks and prestige?

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t.

since I saw this post I will post my opinion. I been raiding since day 1.. took a break for about two months or so.. from raids. overall 650+li. my raider friends and I.. we had no objection to pvp and wvw asc armor upgradable to leg armor. and we think that is a great idea too.. but providing the gift of upgrading it to leg will be at similar scale as upgrading asc envoy to leg envoy meaning need 600 T6 and 90 clovers and the token which is time gated. similar scale and $ which makes legendary armor (purple colour) worth it more. it is actually good news to players for wvw and pvp and we are very happy for the news.. I don’t see a problem with this idea.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Faaris.8013:

I don’t see why I should put so much effort, time and gold into getting just another trenchcoat for my Thief. It’s not an incentive for me to do raids. People do this for the looks and prestige, not for utility. I’m not crafting HOPE because I can change its stats, I will never do this, I craft it because it looks cool.

Medium legendary armor simply doesn’t look cool.

People definitely craft legendaries for the utility. The same reason people buy shared inventory slots. Some utility items are just as expensive as legendaries. Why would anyone put money or effort towards those if people just want looks and prestige?

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t.

I’m sure there are people like that. I’m also sure they are a very small minority. The legendaries are ridiculously expensive and they’ll never be a cost-effective way of changing your gear. Most of the people craft legendaries because that’s the long-term endgame goal this game has, and because they are shiny. The added QoL is just a small bonus.

FrizzFreston.5290:

People definitely craft legendaries for the utility. The same reason people buy shared inventory slots. Some utility items are just as expensive as legendaries. Why would anyone put money or effort towards those if people just want looks and prestige?

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t.

The same goes for you. Just because you wouldn’t craft something legendary for the looks and prestige, it doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t. I just told you that I craft HOPE simply for those reasons. I’m not going to change stats on it, and from what I could gather talking with people in the game, many won’t either. People do spend money, time and effort into getting cool looking gear. A shared inventory slot is 100% utility, nobody would get one because it looks cool. Utility in legendary items is minimal, it’s 95% looks and 5% utility. It’s more efficient to just get a second ascended set for PvP or WvW and switch armor. You have to go into the settings of each armor piece and weapon and select the combination in a drop down menu to change stats. I bet even raiders who have legendary armor don’t do that but instead have a ready to go ascended set in their inventory to switch stats for encounters.

Oh yes, im very happy with crafting 6 gifts of totems, dust, and blood.
My wallet is crying tears of joy.. or is it tears of madness? I cant tell anymore, everything is totem now

Feanor.2358:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Faaris.8013:

I don’t see why I should put so much effort, time and gold into getting just another trenchcoat for my Thief. It’s not an incentive for me to do raids. People do this for the looks and prestige, not for utility. I’m not crafting HOPE because I can change its stats, I will never do this, I craft it because it looks cool.

Medium legendary armor simply doesn’t look cool.

People definitely craft legendaries for the utility. The same reason people buy shared inventory slots. Some utility items are just as expensive as legendaries. Why would anyone put money or effort towards those if people just want looks and prestige?

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t.

I’m sure there are people like that. I’m also sure they are a very small minority. The legendaries are ridiculously expensive and they’ll never be a cost-effective way of changing your gear. Most of the people craft legendaries because that’s the long-term endgame goal this game has, and because they are shiny. The added QoL is just a small bonus.

Exactly true, I know you can make a couple of dozen or more ascended weapons for the cost of a single legendary but how many sets of ascended armour, for example, could you craft for the cost of a single set of legendary armour? 5? 6? More?

The convenience of legendary armour is nice but having multiple sets of ascended armour is probably more cost-effective and overall more useful especially for those of us who have multiple alts.

Mind you, I plan on crafting a legendary armour set for my main, probably from WvW but maybe from sPvP as I already have 3 pieces of “precursor” armour from sPvP, but that’s more to give myself a long-term goal. The rune and stat swapping will be interesting of course but without more legendary trinkets not all that useful, IMO.

Feanor.2358

Except you can’t. You can buy most of the achievements, but not all of them. Also buying 150 LI would be ridiculously expensive, so while it is possible in theory, it is more likely for someone to hit the 2k rank in WvW by pressing ‘1’ than doing it.

Let’s see – I saw a lot of comments on the Forum regarding the Raids – how easy are the raids and that anybody can do the raids – but because the players are lazy / filthy casuals / not dedicated (to the cause? ) etc they prefer to cry and not to work hard for the legendary. The general opinion regarding the raids (veterans opinion) is that the longest time needed to learn the mechanics was for the first wing. After that, less and less time was necessary – the last wing they say needed around 3 hours to master.

With this little time you consider the raiders to be the best possible players in the game, the top of the top regarding the skill – by playing few hours to learn the mechanics of the bosses.

On the other hand – a player playing WvW to reach lvl 2 000 is unskilled because he only press 1 to do that. REALLY ? This is what you think? Do you ever calculated how long it takes to reach lvl 2000? On an average WvW server? A person who don’t like the WvW will never reach lvl 2 000 – no matter the reward. You cannot have so strong nerves to endure something you don’t like for so long time. And you cannot buy this – no matter what- you should do this by yourself.
So, I think it is clear for you – the lvl 2000 WvW-ers are dedicated players. Dedicated to WvW and not to raid.
And in this so long time, playing a game mode they like, you consider that they learn nothing regarding the class they use, regarding the fight, regarding the tactics?

I will reveal you a secret: In WvW you don’t have few mechanics you can learn in 2-3 hours of try and wipe. Every encounter has its own specific, every siege is different according on what side of the wall you are, every 1vs1 is different – depending of the classes, build used, opponent skill, terrain etc. You cannot memorize the WvW as you do with a raid boss.

You see – only by reaching lvl 2000 a WvW player invested more effort and dedication than any raider fighting 100 minutes per week.

And a last comparation between the Raid requirements for Legendary and WvW requirements:
Without the weekly cap for LI, a dedicated team of raiders can have the 150 LI for the first set in 2, maximum 3 days. This is ALL the “great” effort for acquiring the LI for the legendary.

I saw here a lot of suggestions from the raiders about the gifts for WvW armor, and how difficult and how gated should be these gifts. In my opinion the cost for upgrading the precursors to the WvW armor should be symbolic. Minimal at best. Because only to acquire the precursor is already a much much much greater effort than the legendary Raid armor. Not mentioning about the lack of “shiny” of the WvW armor.

I think this made it clear – the WvW armor is not shiny, not “prestigious” as the Raid armor. That means the WvW players will craft it because they need it – the functional side is important here.

Cristalyan.5728:

I saw here a lot of suggestions from the raiders about the gifts for WvW armor, and how difficult and how gated should be these gifts. In my opinion the cost for upgrading the precursors to the WvW armor should be symbolic. Minimal at best. Because only to acquire the precursor is already a much much much greater effort than the legendary Raid armor. Not mentioning about the lack of “shiny” of the WvW armor.

Personally, I don’t much care how large or small the costs are. I actually would prefer them lower, as I play WvW myself, so I wouldn’t mind another set of purple armor for cheap. However, both of these statements are false.

First, the effort is only real for the Mistforged Triumphant armor. The lower tier is much, much, much easier to get. Namely, because it doesn’t require you to have rank 2k. And you are able to get it by simply following a tag. Much master, so effort.

Second, Mistforged Triumphant does feature a shiny on its own. I’m not that dedicated to WvW to realistically hope to get it, but that’s

Lastly, “rank 2k by pressing 1” is an obvious exaggeration. Yes, nobody will actually do that. Just like nobody will actually buy its way to Perfected Envoy and remain a casual. The very same logic applies. Players tend to underestimate greatly the mastery required by game modes different than the ones they are playing. Don’t. Comparing difficulty across the game modes is next to meaningless. They are difficult on very different terms.

Feanor.2358:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Faaris.8013:

I don’t see why I should put so much effort, time and gold into getting just another trenchcoat for my Thief. It’s not an incentive for me to do raids. People do this for the looks and prestige, not for utility. I’m not crafting HOPE because I can change its stats, I will never do this, I craft it because it looks cool.

Medium legendary armor simply doesn’t look cool.

People definitely craft legendaries for the utility. The same reason people buy shared inventory slots. Some utility items are just as expensive as legendaries. Why would anyone put money or effort towards those if people just want looks and prestige?

Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t.

I’m sure there are people like that. I’m also sure they are a very small minority. The legendaries are ridiculously expensive and they’ll never be a cost-effective way of changing your gear. Most of the people craft legendaries because that’s the long-term endgame goal this game has, and because they are shiny. The added QoL is just a small bonus.

Yeah I am not gonna dispute baseless claims as to whether how many people transmute their legendary gear and use their legendaries for the utility. They could indeed be a very small minority. Though they could be fairly large as well. I have no proof to either. I only know that there are people who do so, proven by the pinged legendary armors that are transmuted.

Other than that, most convenience items aren’t cost effective. Some people are crazy about changing their stats and builds regularly. In the end it’s just a bunch of saved inventory slots I suppose. Which is no different again, than some of the convenience items.

So when theres a change in meta or new stat sets are intoduced asc reforging isnt expensive and getting all the runes. mean while legendary armor provides unlimited changes for free expac fullproof.

Cristalyan.5728:

On the other hand – a player playing WvW to reach lvl 2 000 is unskilled because he only press 1 to do that. REALLY ? This is what you think? Do you ever calculated how long it takes to reach lvl 2000? On an average WvW server? A person who don’t like the WvW will never reach lvl 2 000 – no matter the reward. You cannot have so strong nerves to endure something you don’t like for so long time. And you cannot buy this – no matter what- you should do this by yourself.
So, I think it is clear for you – the lvl 2000 WvW-ers are dedicated players. Dedicated to WvW and not to raid.

Untrue. It takes very little commitment other than time to hit 2k wvw rank. Log in Flip a few camps while running booster+guild WxP boost.

You never have to group or even have player interaction. You can quite literally treat it as a solo PvE mission in the borderlands.

Good player, bad player its ultimately irrelevant when it comes to WvW legendary armor and that’s perfectly fine.

TexZero.7910:

Untrue. It takes very little commitment other than time to hit 2k wvw rank. Log in Flip a few camps while running booster+guild WxP boost.

You never have to group or even have player interaction. You can quite literally treat it as a solo PvE mission in the borderlands.

Good player, bad player its ultimately irrelevant when it comes to WvW legendary armor and that’s perfectly fine.

Supply camp gives you a 200 WXP, 330 if you do it with a booster and guild upgrade. That means ~15 camp flips per level, and you need to repeat it 2000 times. Go on, do it, show us a bit of “very little commitment”.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Untrue. It takes very little commitment other than time to hit 2k wvw rank. Log in Flip a few camps while running booster+guild WxP boost.

You never have to group or even have player interaction. You can quite literally treat it as a solo PvE mission in the borderlands.

Good player, bad player its ultimately irrelevant when it comes to WvW legendary armor and that’s perfectly fine.

Supply camp gives you a 200 WXP, 330 if you do it with a booster and guild upgrade. That means ~15 camp flips per level, and you need to repeat it 2000 times. Go on, do it, show us a bit of “very little commitment”.

He said, “Other than time.”

Which is true, you don’t need the commitment of learning fights, learning your class, or even learning how to market yourself to the elitists in LFG… You just gotta tag guards and follow a zerg all day long.

And while, I admit, Legendary armor is probably most useful in WvW out of all the game modes, it does seem like another freebie that anet is giving to their WvW core.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Untrue. It takes very little commitment other than time to hit 2k wvw rank. Log in Flip a few camps while running booster+guild WxP boost.

You never have to group or even have player interaction. You can quite literally treat it as a solo PvE mission in the borderlands.

Good player, bad player its ultimately irrelevant when it comes to WvW legendary armor and that’s perfectly fine.

Supply camp gives you a 200 WXP, 330 if you do it with a booster and guild upgrade. That means ~15 camp flips per level, and you need to repeat it 2000 times. Go on, do it, show us a bit of “very little commitment”.

Reading comprehension is pretty hard.

Thankfully i don’t have to do it 2000 times. In fact if i really wanted wvw legendary armor i could have it done likely within 4-6 weeks of me casually playing. I guess that’s what i get however for playing multiple game modes.

I’m just happy there’s a set of armor I can earn to stats and Rune swap with, as mainly a Revenant player, with Revenant not being considered meta and the raiding community largely being a bunch of elitist meta slaves. Perhaps that’s a rude statement, but it’s based in truth, and you know it. If you aren’t playing x class, you aren’t welcome. No fun allowed, you are forced to play classes you aren’t that interested in playing if you want to partake. It’s all about min-maxing the class comp to the extreme and everyone’s a speedrunner.

It’s the exact kind of thing that makes people quit MMO games. They are blocked off from having fun and earning QoL rewards if they happen to enjoy one class over others. It’s one of the reasons why I stopped playing for closer to a year personally. The constant elitism in early raiding and established Fractals got tiring. I never got complaints directed at me mind you, that’s not what burnt me out, I had a static group; it just felt tiring to constantly need to be a part of the elitist click. The GW2 PvE community still wore me frustrated and made me start playing other games. Now the elitism is clearly even worse, I see there’s even DPS meters now.

Luckily with these recent changes, I have options to ignore this part of the game. And I’m a bit saddened that it needs to come to that, as I did enjoy raiding about a year ago and this is well, a part of the game that I feel I need to miss out on currently — but it is how it is; ArenaNet has not balanced the classes to be able to perform on an equal level. Some are better performers due to easy access to powerful conditions in the game, with raid bosses in situations being stationary and just standing in fields, and thus they are selected over everything else that can’t keep up. It was the same with all Warriors in dungeons.

Absconditus.6804:

…being that Revenant isn’t considered meta and the raiding community is a bunch of elitist meta slaves. Am I being rude saying that? Perhaps, but it’s freaking true too, and you know it. If you aren’t x class, you aren’t welcome.

It has nothing to do with “meta slaves”. The problem is that the overall majority of players is not good able to bring decent dps or class knowledge so pugs are looking for the best of the worst they can get. If you are a good revenant player how do I recognize you out of the huge group of bad ones that underperform so hard with a class that isn’t able to compete with others in “usual circumstances”. The behaviour is just logical and makes sense if you want to kill bosses and prevent wipes at all costs.
I recommend joining a static (guild) group and show them that you are outstanding. Trust me, you will be welcome if you are good because every static would appreciate players knowing their stuff. But don’t expect pugs to be like that, they don’t know you. They have no indication about you being good or bad with your revenant.

Feanor.2358:

crunchyraisin.6054:

3.) Raiding does not take more effort, time, or coordination than other game modes.

Yes it does, in regards to the special rewards. You can grind the WvW armor by following a tag and pressing ‘1’. It’s a very real possibility. Yes, not all the WvW players do that and yes, it is not much fun. But you can do it. You can do virtually the same in PvP. No tag, but you get the idea. You can’t do the same with the raid armor. Yes, the fights are scripted, but no, it doesn’t make them trivial.

That said, I’m fine with the current situation. It’s perfectly fine for the other game modes to have their own ways of attaining the same functionality as long as the raid armor remain exclusive in some way. Unique skins are a perfectly valid way to do that. By the way, the Mistforged Triumphant serves the same purpose for WvW, although it doesn’t technically require more skill. The amount of dedication needed, however, is respectable.

I think is realistic for wvw to get legendary as compared to pve. In wvw, you swap way more gears than you ever swap in one’s entire life in pve. Pve is really all about skins (and for some is boosting rights).

Absconditus.6804:

I’m just happy there’s a set of armor I can earn to stats and Rune swap with, as mainly a Revenant player, with Revenant not being considered meta and the raiding community largely being a bunch of elitist meta slaves. Perhaps that’s a rude statement, but it’s based in truth, and you know it. If you aren’t playing x class, you aren’t welcome. No fun allowed, you are forced to play classes you aren’t that interested in playing if you want to partake. It’s all about min-maxing the class comp to the extreme and everyone’s a speedrunner.

Hey, I’m a Revenant main too…! There’s a couple of fights where Rev’s actually desirable: Deimos, Cairn, Matt, Trio, Sloth. Good times on those fights.

But honestly… Your outlook is all wrong. You can’t just have one class and expect to raid. Especially these days. Most LFG posts only want multi class for a multitude of reasons—especially if you consider yourself a DPS main. Taking a dps that doesn’t understand how chrono utilities or druid heals work is just annoying as they QQ about missing distorts or never getting heals. Also, there’s just some fights that classes are terrible at no matter what they are. (i.e. Power Ele vs. Cairn, Condi Engi vs KC, etc.)

And while you say that’s being an elitist to the meta, being multi class is a nessecity for every game mode… You need to have another class to switch to in sPvP if you queue your Rev into a game with 3 thief teammates. Or in WvW, if you join a guild fight that already has a Rev in every sub…