Guild Wars 2

Isn’t it weird how Altruistic Healing does the exact opposite of what you’d think it should do given its name?

Nokaru.7831:

Isn’t it weird how Altruistic Healing does the exact opposite of what you’d think it should do given its name?

Yeah, weird. You use boons to heal yourself :/ I guess if they made it party wide it would be borderline op, BUT…

That would make AH a niche build for parties with rather low player skill.

One possible answer is that a group of players can easily have surplus support. If they can kill quickly then do they really need every warrior to have a revive banner slotted? This is particularly true for guardian/warrior groups where a guardian can sustain the rest of the group while the warriors all deliver damage.

Another answer is that players often take self contained builds into dungeons. They could rely on other classes for boons but if someone delivers extra damage under fury, say, that person will use skills that provide fury in their own build. This sort of selfishness is sensible.

Stooperdale.3560:

One possible answer is that a group of players can easily have surplus support. If they can kill quickly then do they really need every warrior to have a revive banner slotted? This is particularly true for guardian/warrior groups where a guardian can sustain the rest of the group while the warriors all deliver damage.

Another answer is that players often take self contained builds into dungeons. They could rely on other classes for boons but if someone delivers extra damage under fury, say, that person will use skills that provide fury in their own build. This sort of selfishness is sensible.

Which is fine in single multiple warrior groups. If i am in a group with 3 warriors (actually fairly rare.) Then IDGAF if one of them is 5 signets. As long as there is a banner of strength and discipline out we good. However when you start getting into groups that have say one engi, one guard, one mes, one ranger, one warrior. Then you hope that each one of them brings something to the table besides their L33T deeps. You hope the guardian can pump out protection and group heals with the staff and stability , you hope your ranger maybe just maybe will have spotter plus healing spring, you hope the engi is packing tons of blasts plus healing turret, you hope your mesmer has focus (maybe mantra heals since best mesmer DPS is also in the same line.), and you hope your warrior has banner of strength/discipline or at least one of the two. And if everyone is running something that only maximizes one thing on themselves (DPS or survive.) That’s great but it only helps themselves. Usually groups where EVERYONE is bringing some form of group buff do much much much better over when everyone is worried about self buffing.

It’s about maximizing group efficacy, and each class can bring something to do that. But when you pug and absolutely noone has anything that helps the groups damage or survive its just kind of a pain.

jportell.2197:

Which is fine in single multiple warrior groups. If i am in a group with 3 warriors (actually fairly rare.) Then IDGAF if one of them is 5 signets. As long as there is a banner of strength and discipline out we good. However when you start getting into groups that have say one engi, one guard, one mes, one ranger, one warrior. Then you hope that each one of them brings something to the table besides their L33T deeps. You hope the guardian can pump out protection and group heals with the staff and stability , you hope your ranger maybe just maybe will have spotter plus healing spring, you hope the engi is packing tons of blasts plus healing turret, you hope your mesmer has focus (maybe mantra heals since best mesmer DPS is also in the same line.), and you hope your warrior has banner of strength/discipline or at least one of the two. And if everyone is running something that only maximizes one thing on themselves (DPS or survive.) That’s great but it only helps themselves. Usually groups where EVERYONE is bringing some form of group buff do much much much better over when everyone is worried about self buffing.

It’s about maximizing group efficacy, and each class can bring something to do that. But when you pug and absolutely noone has anything that helps the groups damage or survive its just kind of a pain.

I wouldn’t hope for that.

haviz.1340:

jportell.2197:

Which is fine in single multiple warrior groups. If i am in a group with 3 warriors (actually fairly rare.) Then IDGAF if one of them is 5 signets. As long as there is a banner of strength and discipline out we good. However when you start getting into groups that have say one engi, one guard, one mes, one ranger, one warrior. Then you hope that each one of them brings something to the table besides their L33T deeps. You hope the guardian can pump out protection and group heals with the staff and stability , you hope your ranger maybe just maybe will have spotter plus healing spring, you hope the engi is packing tons of blasts plus healing turret, you hope your mesmer has focus (maybe mantra heals since best mesmer DPS is also in the same line.), and you hope your warrior has banner of strength/discipline or at least one of the two. And if everyone is running something that only maximizes one thing on themselves (DPS or survive.) That’s great but it only helps themselves. Usually groups where EVERYONE is bringing some form of group buff do much much much better over when everyone is worried about self buffing.

It’s about maximizing group efficacy, and each class can bring something to do that. But when you pug and absolutely noone has anything that helps the groups damage or survive its just kind of a pain.

I wouldn’t hope for that.

Empower? Its a nice might stacking and a good heal even with no healing power. Staff should be a staple for guardians in dungeons.

jportell.2197:

Empower? Its a nice might stacking and a good heal even with no healing power. Staff should be a staple for guardians in dungeons.

It already is, unfortunately.

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

jportell.2197:

So I am just curious how many people here run “selfish” builds in dungeons meaning builds that do absolutely nothing for your party. If so why do you do that?

It’s likely the people that run those builds don’t value the same things as people that label them selfish.

Kirschwasser.3972:

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

After being “flamed” no other way to put it in this thread I tried some variations. Well I just wasn’t very impressed. I tried 25 into radiance and the damage bonus wasn’t that great then I went into zeal mainly for the minor traits and the damage was very lackluster and only marginally better than my normal build with group survivability taking a huge hit (talking from 48 fractals.). After going back to the regular build some different things happened one my group could handle all bosses easily because I was the ONLY one taking aggro which was the point, my damage was still pretty good without modifiers and my survivability as well as my groups was great. So… You guys can flame my “terrible” build all you want but it is greatly requested in dungeons by my entire guild.

I’d rather take a full signet zerk warrior than your weak guardian in a dungeon run. Your damage sucks, and your support is unnecessary when everyone can dodge.

I could argue that it’s selfish for you to run an inefficient feel-good support build that hits like paper, slowing the group down and wasting their valuable time.

The goal is to finish content quickly and get your rewards, not to do support/team stuff for the sake of doing support/team stuff.

jportell.2197:

Kirschwasser.3972:

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

After being “flamed” no other way to put it in this thread I tried some variations. Well I just wasn’t very impressed. I tried 25 into radiance and the damage bonus wasn’t that great then I went into zeal mainly for the minor traits and the damage was very lackluster and only marginally better than my normal build with group survivability taking a huge hit (talking from 48 fractals.). After going back to the regular build some different things happened one my group could handle all bosses easily because I was the ONLY one taking aggro which was the point, my damage was still pretty good without modifiers and my survivability as well as my groups was great. So… You guys can flame my “terrible” build all you want but it is greatly requested in dungeons by my entire guild.

Flamed? I’m still waiting for a response to my post at you from earlier which you keep avoiding. Can you give us examples of fights where your build is supposedly good? And could you tell us what makes it good? Because my impression is that you’re partying with bads and they can’t dodge so they have to get a guardian to trait in useless traits to make up for their own incompetence. I’m trying to be reasonable with you and I want you to explain yourself but you’re purposely ignoring my posts because they’re pointing out the flaws in yours without flaming you so there’s no emotionally charged area of my posts you can target and then dismiss the rest so it looks like you actually responded.

voidwater.2064:

I’d rather take a full signet zerk warrior than your weak guardian in a dungeon run. Your damage sucks, and your support is unnecessary when everyone can dodge.

I could argue that it’s selfish for you to run an inefficient feel-good support build that hits like paper, slowing the group down and wasting their valuable time.

The goal is to finish content quickly and get your rewards, not to do support/team stuff for the sake of doing support/team stuff.

Except the chances of all pugs being able to dodge is extremely low. And hitting like paper is rather far from the truth. Pugs usually have no clue how to dodge and I have even had a 5 signet “zerk uber leet warr” get mad at me in COF p1 on my mesmer for not removing the burning from the from him even though I’m a mesmer and our condi clear is pretty crappy compared to a warriors not to mention the attack that causes burning from the effigy is the most obvious animation you can see on any boss.

Yes it would be nice if everyone could run max dps and just be as amazing as you however that is rarely the case and usually most dungeon groups that aren’t “COF SPEED RUN LINK GEAR OR KICKED” require at least one tank. And this isn’t about just support only no deeps builds. Its about builds that have options to easily up group damage (BANNERS!) or increase group survive (Healing turret/spring, empower guard hammer) without really sacrificing anything and still refuse to do it.

colesy.8490:

jportell.2197:

Kirschwasser.3972:

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

After being “flamed” no other way to put it in this thread I tried some variations. Well I just wasn’t very impressed. I tried 25 into radiance and the damage bonus wasn’t that great then I went into zeal mainly for the minor traits and the damage was very lackluster and only marginally better than my normal build with group survivability taking a huge hit (talking from 48 fractals.). After going back to the regular build some different things happened one my group could handle all bosses easily because I was the ONLY one taking aggro which was the point, my damage was still pretty good without modifiers and my survivability as well as my groups was great. So… You guys can flame my “terrible” build all you want but it is greatly requested in dungeons by my entire guild.

Flamed? I’m still waiting for a response to my post at you from earlier which you keep avoiding. Can you give us examples of fights where your build is supposedly good? And could you tell us what makes it good? Because my impression is that you’re partying with bads and they can’t dodge so they have to get a guardian to trait in useless traits to make up for their own incompetence. I’m trying to be reasonable with you and I want you to explain yourself but you’re purposely ignoring my posts because they’re pointing out the flaws in yours without flaming you so there’s no emotionally charged area of my posts you can target and then dismiss the rest so it looks like you actually responded.

Not flaming from you. I just don’t find going into zeal or radiance all that useful. Going into valor is nice because of strength in number, purity (sig of restoration discourages healing IMO). AH isn’t necessary so I can swap the last 10 points between the bottom two lines depending on the dungeon and the party make-up.

And before you get all baddie is bad. I don’t use one handed weapons at all (aside from scepter in necessary fights like the golems in SE) so radiance doesn’t seem very necessary (powerful blades right handed strength etc.) And before people start saying “Your deeps blow” usually I get like 2 or 3 pugs that do absolutely nothing but range and my melee deeps will usually out perform any one’s ranged DPS. So please tell me what should I run in dungeons give me your amazing build. I can however say that damage modifiers from zeal and radiance are really not all that great I noticed almost no difference in the numbers with and without them.

I love your guardian hammer build. There is nothing more unselfish like dispersing the enemies around you while people are trying to drop an aoe on them.

BalkanLion.6045:

I love your guardian hammer build. Nothing like dispersing the enemies around you while people are trying to drop an aoe on them.

I actually only use banish on bosses that need to be launched in the beginning of a fight (Alpha, slave driver etc.) beyond that I use AA and MB most. Zealots embrace when needed like in the grawl fractal.

Oxxy.7068:

So you would drop DPS and utility in order to get tankier thus making the pug you’re in actually worse? Guess i’ll just quote DivineSlayer:

No, I wouldn’t, I rather help people stay alive killing stuff faster. But in a terrible party that’s not enough. And soloing fights with 4 spectators isn’t my idea of fun, so I get jportell poi. Even when I do believe you can keep the support via traits/utilities and still bring dps.

Maybe you should go read deSade post before trying to sound smart

deSade.9437:

I’ll admit it’s, uh… a bit embarassing. Talking about selfish builds and…
….

jportell.2197:

Except the chances of all pugs being able to dodge is extremely low.

Not really, I think you overestimate the difficulty of the content and you underestimate the skill of the average pug. At least from my experience.

jportell.2197:

And hitting like paper is rather far from the truth.

Compared to a proper DPS build, you are very weak.

jportell.2197:

Yes it would be nice if everyone could run max dps and just be as amazing as you however that is rarely the case and usually most dungeon groups that aren’t “COF SPEED RUN LINK GEAR OR KICKED” require at least one tank.

There’s not a single dungeon path in this game that requires a tank. I’ve had plenty of pug runs with no tanky people, and they were great.

jportell.2197:

And this isn’t about just support only no deeps builds. Its about builds that have options to easily up group damage (BANNERS!) or increase group survive (Healing turret/spring, empower guard hammer) without really sacrificing anything and still refuse to do it.

I agree on banners, because they are universally better than signets in a team, but I don’t expect teammates to bring team survival skills. Survival is the individual’s responsibility; we are given all the tools we need to survive without help from others. The healing skills you mention aren’t so clear cut, perhaps the ranger/engi wants a burstier self-heal with lower cooldown. Can’t assume that someone will blast your water field at the right time, or at all.

I expect teammates to bring good DPS, offensive buffs, and situationally effective skills such as boon strips or CC or reflects(combined offense and defense), in that order of importance. I don’t expect everyone to run full zerker max DPS builds, but I prefer to see them lean towards that direction instead of defensive support.

I’m not going to optimize my build for delaying the deaths of bad players. You will slow down good and decent runs and contribute less, and your bad runs will still be bad and inefficient.

and slow. So slow.

Upham.6137:

Oxxy.7068:

So you would drop DPS and utility in order to get tankier thus making the pug you’re in actually worse? Guess i’ll just quote DivineSlayer:

No, I wouldn’t, I rather help people stay alive killing stuff faster. But in a terrible party that’s not enough. And soloing fights with 4 spectators isn’t my idea of fun, so I get jportell poi. Even when I do believe you can keep the support via traits/utilities and still bring dps.

Maybe you should go read deSade post before trying to sound smart

deSade.9437:

I’ll admit it’s, uh… a bit embarassing. Talking about selfish builds and…
….

Uh… and how exactly do you plan on keeping people alive aside from utilities without screwing your dps (which is, according to your example, all the dps of your group)? If people suck at dodging that hard, there is no healing gear in this game that could keep’em from faceplanting

Don’t forget guards who hog virtues’ passives.

Chris RJ.1843:

Don’t forget guards who hog virtues’ passives.

then when they’re low on HP they panic pop all their virtues to proc AH

jportell.2197:

And before you get all baddie is bad. I don’t use one handed weapons at all (aside from scepter in necessary fights like the golems in SE) so radiance doesn’t seem very necessary (powerful blades right handed strength etc.)

I agree that you should review colesy’s post and respond to it in point-by-point style. He was very calm and thorough.

I can’t think of which golem fight in SE you’re talking about that you need scepter. Which path?

jportell.2197:

So please tell me what should I run in dungeons give me your amazing build. I can however say that damage modifiers from zeal and radiance are really not all that great I noticed almost no difference in the numbers with and without them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds
While it doesn’t have a direct link, this would be a good jumping point to explore the various dungeon builds that the dungeon subforum regulars have put together. Choose one and I’m sure someone could supply you a gw2skills.net link.

You should consider the sword/focus. It really is pretty fantastic. I used to use hammer, as I loved the protection it gave, but going to sword/focus really does help kill things faster. Best of luck!

DigitalKirin.9714:

jportell.2197:

And before you get all baddie is bad. I don’t use one handed weapons at all (aside from scepter in necessary fights like the golems in SE) so radiance doesn’t seem very necessary (powerful blades right handed strength etc.)

I agree that you should review colesy’s post and respond to it in point-by-point style. He was very calm and thorough.

I can’t think of which golem fight in SE you’re talking about that you need scepter. Which path?

jportell.2197:

So please tell me what should I run in dungeons give me your amazing build. I can however say that damage modifiers from zeal and radiance are really not all that great I noticed almost no difference in the numbers with and without them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds
While it doesn’t have a direct link, this would be a good jumping point to explore the various dungeon builds that the dungeon subforum regulars have put together. Choose one and I’m sure someone could supply you a gw2skills.net link.

You should consider the sword/focus. It really is pretty fantastic. I used to use hammer, as I loved the protection it gave, but going to sword/focus really does help kill things faster. Best of luck!

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in. In some instances they go “down” so much that they are eventually just dead and you can’t DPS when you are straight dead. Focus brings Regen to the group which while great can be achieved with something like HTL. Focus also brings a blast finisher which is on a kitten CD untraited that is 9 times longer than the CD for the hammer blast finisher. Tell me why its so much better? OH 3 blocks every 45 seconds…. right… that’s great for self sustain but does nothing compared to hammer symbol. Sword/focus also brings absolutely no CC as in no obstructions (grawl fractal) immobilize (scepter/focus+hammer can help immensely on the dredge boss fractal)
I hate to say it actually no I don’ but people don’t bring guards to dungeon for their DPS. While guards DPS can be impressive if all you care about is maximizing your DPS then run nothing but 5 zerk warriors. There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

jportell.2197:

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in. In some instances they go “down” so much that they are eventually just dead and you can’t DPS when you are straight dead. ………………………. There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

sad to say you play with very terrible players.

People bring guardian for unique utilities while bringing high dps; aegis, reflects and group stability (sometimes..lupi phase 2 transition?) off the top of my head (and no, not protection from hammer) while having kitten high dps.

Most regular people here in the dungeon forum strive to be better players, aim for the best, and do not sit in a “because i’m comfortable with the padding build”.

Bread.7516:

jportell.2197:

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in. In some instances they go “down” so much that they are eventually just dead and you can’t DPS when you are straight dead. ………………………. There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

sad to say you play with very terrible players.

People bring guardian for unique utilities while bringing high dps; aegis, reflects and group stability (sometimes..lupi phase 2 transition?) off the top of my head while having kitten high dps.

I find most people here in the dungeon forum strive to be better players, aim for the best, and do not sit in a “because i’m comfortable with the padding build”.

DPS is a plus. If it is 4 zerk warriors and one guardian they didn’t bring him for dps they brought him for reflects condi clear and stability almost no groups I have been in have claimed I was bad because I was the one doing all the support. And I don’t do that build for my survive the high toughness=high aggro draw which in several boss fights (Andal the Thug for those that actually run other dungeons besides the speed clear). A high toughness guard keeps the entire group alive because of toughness Andal aggros on absoutely noone else in that fight, just the char with the highest toughness.

jportell.2197:

DPS is a plus. If it is 4 zerk warriors and one guardian they didn’t bring him for dps they brought him for reflects condi clear and stability almost no groups I have been in have claimed I was bad because I was the one doing all the support. And I don’t do that build for my survive the high toughness=high aggro draw which in several boss fights (Andal the Thug for those that actually run other dungeons besides the speed clear). A high toughness guard keeps the entire group alive because of toughness Andal aggros on absoutely noone else in that fight, just the char with the highest toughness.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83701-the-perfect-dps-guardian-build/

^ if you need that much condi clear or if your mesmer doesn’t use nullfield in some situations.

most dungeon paths you don’t really need that much condi clear but depends on group dynamic. you always want your HP above 90% so you don’t lose dps on scholar runes so sometimes condi clear is preferred

personally i prefer the 10/30/0/5/25.

As i said, we try to be better/faster and not just stick with comfortably padded builds. Just youtube a speedrun and aim for that, simple enough.

DigitalKirin.9714:

I agree that you should review colesy’s post and respond to it in point-by-point style. He was very calm and thorough.

I can’t think of which golem fight in SE you’re talking about that you need scepter. Which path?

jportell.2197:

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in.

Hyperbole carries no weight. Use it less if you want a reasonable discussion. Besides, hammer guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in.

jportell.2197:

Sword/focus also brings absolutely no CC as in no obstructions (grawl fractal) immobilize (scepter/focus+hammer can help immensely on the dredge boss fractal)

So carry a hammer, a gswd, a staff, a scepter, a shield, a focus and a sword. Use the right tool for each encounter that you come across. That is what intelligent people do. Heck some people even carry 2 of certain weapons (having a superior sigil of bloodlust on one version then swapping out when capping out stacks.)

jportell.2197:

I hate to say it actually no I don’ but people don’t bring guards to dungeon for their DPS.

Which is truly unfortunate. Because as you said:

guards DPS can be impressive

However,

if all you care about is maximizing your DPS then run nothing but 5 zerk warriors.

You can achieve more DPS using a slightly more varied group than 5 zerk warriors.

jportell.2197:

There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

You’re right. A good group will want a guardian who can DPS, provide boons, and reflects in an intelligent manner.

The problem with your argumentation is that you feel like people are being 2 dimensional. I said Sword/Focus is really great. You bring up examples where it isn’t. That’s fine. Use other tools in that situation. But the same is true in the opposite. When you run CM and you stack a bunch of riflemen around the corner, you just need reflect and the ability to kill the riflemen quickly. Sword deals more damage than hammer. Therefore sword is more ideal in this situation. There are a multitude of situations out there. Consider something like Lupi. Use the right tool for each situation. In this way, you’ll be a better guardian. You must meditate upon this.

Hammer has been verified many many times as the best DPS guardian weapon from other people than just me. It’s almost all over the guardian forums as soon as someone says “hammer is bad it attacks way to slow” everyone and their mom comes out calling it the best DPS a guardian can achieve.

Ah, Guardian Forum.

I am sure, then, that they have math to substantiate their claims.

jportell.2197:

Hammer has been verified many many times as the best DPS guardian weapon from other people than just me. It’s almost all over the guardian forums as soon as someone says “hammer is bad it attacks way to slow” everyone and their mom comes out calling it the best DPS a guardian can achieve.

Show evidence.

I’m sure most people here know how dps generally works, we all tried hammer before (we really did) it’s a cool weapon but as a max dps weapon it just isn’t.

but if you know something we all don’t please prove us wrong with math.

Gonna answer this one to test if I do remember guard properly:

To be fair, an s/f guardian has less passive defense than a full-time hammer guard due to lack of protect from the AA proc, loss of extra CC from the chain thingy (immob/soft CC), banish (launch/hard CC) and that warding circle (knockback/harc CC), but in return you gain active attack blocking and an in-combat blast finisher, two on-demand blinds (one is AoE and a gap closer, the other is bouncing, a condition cure, and addt’l regen) and higher sustained DPS (if you’re lazy fulltime use of RHS is a plus to sword).

An S/F weapon set helps the guard have more offense, even if you have different weapon sets slotted in. Hammer is useful, true, but with S/F you can at least provide better damage. That said, since it has lower defensive capability with hammer, the first shots in combat are irreparably crucial, since you have to constantly make sure your targets are blinded to be able to survive the first volley.

Edit: ninja’ed above, and additionally: my personal gripe with using hammer is that it interferes visually in whatever field I laid down for others to blast finish with – since purging flames and hallowed ground is always in my setup if reflects/projectile reflect are not required. I’ve groaned so many times when I’m on my engineer trying to set-up an in-combat might or burst heal but I can’t since there’s a symbol on the way.

5 warriors is definitely not the best DPS available. if you even knew what you were talking about even guardians can offer more theoretical DPS than warriors. eles and thieves also far outstrip warrior DPS.

it’s also pretty funny that you’re saying that hammer is the best DPS. I guess all the record runs that use s/f guardians (if any) don’t know what they are doing. they should definitely go to the guardian forums where people defend AH builds and seek advice.

colesy.8490:

jportell.2197:

Kirschwasser.3972:

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

After being “flamed” no other way to put it in this thread I tried some variations. Well I just wasn’t very impressed. I tried 25 into radiance and the damage bonus wasn’t that great then I went into zeal mainly for the minor traits and the damage was very lackluster and only marginally better than my normal build with group survivability taking a huge hit (talking from 48 fractals.). After going back to the regular build some different things happened one my group could handle all bosses easily because I was the ONLY one taking aggro which was the point, my damage was still pretty good without modifiers and my survivability as well as my groups was great. So… You guys can flame my “terrible” build all you want but it is greatly requested in dungeons by my entire guild.

Flamed? I’m still waiting for a response to my post at you from earlier which you keep avoiding. Can you give us examples of fights where your build is supposedly good? And could you tell us what makes it good? Because my impression is that you’re partying with bads and they can’t dodge so they have to get a guardian to trait in useless traits to make up for their own incompetence. I’m trying to be reasonable with you and I want you to explain yourself but you’re purposely ignoring my posts because they’re pointing out the flaws in yours without flaming you so there’s no emotionally charged area of my posts you can target and then dismiss the rest so it looks like you actually responded.

I experienced this in the guardian subforum. Except fadeaway
noone was able to answer simple questions or use any logical/mathematical reasoning in their posts.

Pretty annoying, gave me the feeling to talk to r3T4r¢|2.

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

clint.5681:

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

Because the guys running builds like this with their S/F and GS are usually the ones I wind up picking up off the floor over, and over, and over, and over. Hence the reason for me making this thread. They can’t provide their reflects, blinds, aegis, etc if they are always on the floor.

jportell.2197:

clint.5681:

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

Because the guys running builds like this with their S/F and GS are usually the ones I wind up picking up off the floor over, and over, and over, and over. Hence the reason for me making this thread. They can’t provide their reflects, blinds, aegis, etc if they are always on the floor.

You were running with bad, really bad, pugs. I cannot possibly think of any other reasons why.

As a Sword and focus guard and the one getting picked up off the floor…

it has nothing to do with you. and its all MY ability to use my class and dodge.

Worked a Lupi melee the other night with SkyChef, time after time, we got it a little bit farther. never made it though.
Couple days later. Ran it again Had Skychef and a DnT crew member, took us a bunch of tries but we did it.
ran it tonight. got it on our third try. and my personal second successful Lupi melee attempt.

When you are complaining about the sword focus gaurds that are always on their back. or ANY player that is always on their back. perhaps its just them learning.

So while you are complaining here for us being selfish, I am going to head back to Arah and learn how to hit harder than you and stay alive longer.

Yenn.9185:

jportell.2197:

clint.5681:

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

Because the guys running builds like this with their S/F and GS are usually the ones I wind up picking up off the floor over, and over, and over, and over. Hence the reason for me making this thread. They can’t provide their reflects, blinds, aegis, etc if they are always on the floor.

You were running with bad, really bad, pugs. I cannot possibly think of any other reasons why.

And there are more of these bad really bad pugs out there than there are of all these awesome players filling up this thread. This thread would not be made if my experiences were everyone just doing super awesome no matter what build they run. Most 5 signet warriors are usually greatsword/rifle warriors that almost always refuse to run banners even when they are running signets like fury and might or. Or when a guardian that refuses to run WOR even on fights that it is great for or is running 4 signets (seen this one MULTIPLE times). Thieves that never have short bow for the blast (or worse yet P/d non-venomshare thieves.) Eles that are running staff with 4 signets and absolutely no conjure weapons at all (even when the fight will greatly benefit it.) FGS should be a staple in dungeon runs for eles even completely untraited.

This thread was made after a slew of experiences with pugs that do garbage DPS but still bring nothing for support or pugs that do great DPS but spend the entire fight completely dead because they were downed so much that eventually as soon as they went down again they were completely dead.

You can’t DPS if you are dead.

With regards to why some rangers don’t use healing spring, that may be due to the lower base healing from it as well as the increased cd. Having run healing spring a few times, it’s been my experience that teams rarely use the waterfield anyway if it’s a pug and if you use the skill to heal a team-mate on low health, you end up having no heal for yourself, leaving no room at all for a single missed dodge. Also if I have healing spring but wait with casting it until I need it, I can watch any low health team mate go down in the meantime.
So if there’s any chance the ranger might miss a dodge, asking him/her to bring healing spring to help the team may well get the ranger killed.

That said, I do agree with bringing healing spring in some groups. Any group that can do a few combos in the waterfield is worth bringing the field for. But there’s nothing more depressing than having a group at low health on a waterfield and being the only one trying to do combos on it.

Ropechef.6192:

As a Sword and focus guard and the one getting picked up off the floor…

it has nothing to do with you. and its all MY ability to use my class and dodge.

Worked a Lupi melee the other night with SkyChef, time after time, we got it a little bit farther. never made it though.
Couple days later. Ran it again Had Skychef and a DnT crew member, took us a bunch of tries but we did it.
ran it tonight. got it on our third try. and my personal second successful Lupi melee attempt.

When you are complaining about the sword focus gaurds that are always on their back. or ANY player that is always on their back. perhaps its just them learning.

So while you are complaining here for us being selfish, I am going to head back to Arah and learn how to hit harder than you and stay alive longer.

Which is fine go run dungeons and learn how to get better with a full zerk melee build (at least you have that down!). My gripe is the full zerk selfish builds that consistently go down and do absolutely nothing for the group.

The guys that didn’t actually learn how to stay alive longer.

jportell.2197:

Which is fine go run dungeons and learn how to get better with a full zerk melee build (at least you have that down!). My gripe is the full zerk selfish builds that consistently go down and do absolutely nothing for the group.

The guys that didn’t actually learn how to stay alive longer.

Yes, it is a problem but those players most likely do not read forums so your thread might be a bit unproductive since most warriors here do not take 5 signets with a rifle.

Basically this thread could be summed up with a statement that pugs are bad which was known already and is the reason why people form up guilds or use friend lists. I would strongly recommend you to do that. Some of us here did not know anyone before starting playing so that excuse is already covered. Pug, observe and add to the friend list.

spoj.9672:

disenchanter is good for the golem in coe, thats about it.

i used to (when i played mesmer… ages ago) use it on the butcher too

jportell.2197:

(which btw is 0/0/30/20/20)

valor?… you went 30 in valor?… so… AH? thats bad.

jportell.2197:

Yeah I’m so bad with my consistent crits granting might to allies permanently…. Anytime I build for dungeons I think (What does the group need?)

you have empowering might instead of writ of persistence and no damage modifications… extremely bad.

jportell.2197:

clint.5681:

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

Because the guys running builds like this with their S/F and GS are usually the ones I wind up picking up off the floor over, and over, and over, and over. Hence the reason for me making this thread. They can’t provide their reflects, blinds, aegis, etc if they are always on the floor.

If you’re on EU servers you’re now heartly invited to hit me up ingame and do some dungeon runs with me.
If you’re on NA, i’d highly recommend you to check my youtube channel!

Meh, I also want to run with you good dungeon runners. Do I really have to post something against selfish builds in order to do so ?

Enaretos.8079:

Meh, I also want to run with you good dungeon runners. Do I really have to post something against selfish builds in order to do so ?

No you don’t, just ask <3

Enaretos.8079:

Meh, I also want to run with you good dungeon runners. Do I really have to post something against selfish builds in order to do so ?

I’m terrified of running with them. I don’t want them to know how bad I am.

However, on this thread, if everyone plays selfish builds, isn’t it true that the party should be fine? Everyone takes care of themself, everyone wins?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Enaretos.8079:

Meh, I also want to run with you good dungeon runners. Do I really have to post something against selfish builds in order to do so ?

I’m terrified of running with them. I don’t want them to know how bad I am.

However, on this thread, if everyone plays selfish builds, isn’t it true that the party should be fine? Everyone takes care of themself, everyone wins?

Hell NO! This is the freaking worst thing you could ever do!
Being focused on yourself and not being a teamplayer, this is what f—ks you up the most. This stupid game, unfortunately, is so easy that many self-centered idiots can get away with being selfish – not ressing and not bringing any support to the team; since there’s no true hardcore content other than high lvl fractals, you’re allowed to play randomly with no field awareness and not caring about anyone but yourself even in 48+… Meh. Problem is, they make any run a pain.
The party won’t be fine if you take care of yourself only, especially in pugs. They’re too fragile: if you go down, everyone risks a wipe. Can you imagine pugs 4 or 3-manning? Seven hells.

deSade.9437:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Enaretos.8079:

Meh, I also want to run with you good dungeon runners. Do I really have to post something against selfish builds in order to do so ?

I’m terrified of running with them. I don’t want them to know how bad I am.

However, on this thread, if everyone plays selfish builds, isn’t it true that the party should be fine? Everyone takes care of themself, everyone wins?

Hell NO! This is the freaking worst thing you could ever do!
Being focused on yourself and not being a teamplayer, this is what f—ks you up the most. This stupid game, unfortunately, is so easy that many self-centered idiots can get away with being selfish – not ressing and not bringing any support to the team; since there’s no true hardcore content other than high lvl fractals, you’re allowed to play randomly with no field awareness and not caring about anyone but yourself even in 48+… Meh. Problem is, they make any run a pain.
The party won’t be fine if you take care of yourself only, especially in pugs. They’re too fragile: if you go down, everyone risks a wipe. Can you imagine pugs 4 or 3-manning? Seven hells.

O.O……

I can’t tell if serious or if my life is now over.

cowers in a corner

Edit: don’t read below this line it don’t make sense.

Yesterday…. In a fractal 48…. I killed baron Von scrufflebutt from downed and I didn’t rally, ( I hit him about 8 times with 1 and 2 times with 3 so…. Yeah) but it was able to give the rest of the team enough gumption to finish the other bots in time for me to bandage myself up….

….I think I was the only zerker, though… I didn’t support my team enough.