Guild Wars 2

When pugs start the fight right at the beginning of the lower level, deal zero dps and kite the gravelings in a way that they add up you can be screwed pretty quick. When we are now duo’ing we’re just kiting them into the circles quick and don’t drag the boss out of the positions we AoE on. Three people are capable of messing two others up pretty often. Alphard, Lupicus, Wraithlord, Rumblus, Howling King, Mage Crusher, Hunter, Spider Queen, etc. And those just as examples in AC and Arah.

Anicetus.1253:

Three people are capable of messing two others up pretty often. Alphard, Lupicus, Wraithlord, Rumblus, Howling King, Mage Crusher, Hunter, Spider Queen, etc.

I get that there are fights where the actions of others in the group can doom the attempt, but Howling King seems like a extremely poor example. That you wiped eight times in a row almost makes it sound like you were being intentionally trolled, rather than having anything to do with builds or skill.

Berner.7289:

Anicetus.1253:

Three people are capable of messing two others up pretty often. Alphard, Lupicus, Wraithlord, Rumblus, Howling King, Mage Crusher, Hunter, Spider Queen, etc.

I get that there are fights where the actions of others in the group can doom the attempt, but Howling King seems like a extremely poor example. That you wiped eight times in a row almost makes it sound like you were being intentionally trolled, rather than having anything to do with builds or skill.

You would like to believe this, but unfortunate this is not always the case.

Even having a guild party on TS3, and telling them what to do, explaining where to fight and when to start to burn down gravelings (CC removal, cone avoidance, etc) my party has still wiped 3 times before completing it.

Some people just don’t care/listen or they don’t have capability of understand what to do quickly.

jportell.2197:

Its not that zerk=selfish its that when people play this zerk builds they don’t think to bring utilities and traits that buff their party.

Like Altruistic Healing?

That trait is the epitome of a selfish Guardian; sorry.

Nokaru.7831:

jportell.2197:

Its not that zerk=selfish its that when people play this zerk builds they don’t think to bring utilities and traits that buff their party.

Like Altruistic Healing?

That trait is the epitome of a selfish Guardian; sorry.

Eh ur right hence why I switched it after this thread (0/25/0/20/25). Still yet the AH build brought way more to a party with the points in healing and virtues than a 5signet warrior did or any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

jportell.2197:

any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

If they’re doing damage, they’re still doing something useful for the party, even if that’s all they do.

If you want to be more optimal than that, fine, but your builds are not optimal so your criticism seems somewhat hypocritical.

voidwater.2064:

jportell.2197:

any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

If they’re doing damage, they’re still doing something useful for the party, even if that’s all they do.

If you want to be more optimal than that, fine, but your builds are not optimal so your criticism seems somewhat hypocritical.

0/25/0/20/25 is not optimal? It brings all the support (Virtue of justice activation spam is enough for this when clearing trash), amazing dps plus nice damage modifiers. And these builds still did no dps because they spent more time on the floor than they did doing damage. And if they are doing damage yayy cleric (insert class here) still does damage. So that argument is kind of moot. It’s builds that can do great damage but don’t do anything for party damage. Or builds that do nothing for their own damage or party damage. Huge difference and I can’t count the number of times that someone is “doing damage” such as an LB ranger in melee range (same with GS mesmer) or the 4 signet staff ele.

If you do anything ANYTHING at all to help your party and still survive you are great in my book but there are far too many just weird builds doing nothing for the group and actually hold it back by dying way to much and not doing anything support wise either.

jportell.2197:

And these builds still did no dps because they spent more time on the floor than they did doing damage

If your defensive support is so great, why do you keep seeing dead people? What’s the point of severely nerfing your offense?

Godkitten vanguard builders

jportell.2197:

And these builds still did no dps because they spent more time on the floor than they did doing damage

well since you need “support” it seems, as in aoe heals I guess you’ll be laying right next or on top of them. Now none of you has any dps. So what was the point of zerk gear and unable to complete a dungeon/instance again?

The problem lies with the player not with the built.
Any experienced player will adapt to the situation and make changes to their utilities and weapons instead of using one set of specific utilities and weapon for all situations.

Its just like when i went for Ac path 2 this morning with my warrior, none of the elementalists or guardian use reflects to protect against the spiderling attacks and during ghost eater fight as well. They were also not in zerker gear as it took us 3 traps to kill him.

voidwater.2064:

jportell.2197:

any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

If they’re doing damage, they’re still doing something useful for the party, even if that’s all they do.

If you want to be more optimal than that, fine, but your builds are not optimal so your criticism seems somewhat hypocritical.

I dunno about the “even if that’s all they do.” I agree that beyond damage you should provide something extra to your party. A party of 5 individuals who don’t share buffs will be weaker than a party of 5 teammates who synergize, share buffs, lay down fields and blast them, etc.

If I had a player who was Only damage focused when they could easily provide more, I would say that they are in the same boat as the people who provide Only support and castrate their damage to do so.

A competent player can provide excellent DPS along with excellent support. (For me, I wrap things like blasting might stacks/putting fire/water fields down in support. I also throw str/disc banners, spotter, and frost spirit and such in support.)

TL;DR version of the morale of the whole thread: Pugs are bad. You are bad too, if you don’t use proper DPS builds, which provide other damage/defense buffs to the group without lowering your DPS. If you don’t do this or at least try, you are as bad as the pugs you’re talking down upon.

Emanuel.9781:

TL;DR version of the morale of the whole thread: Pugs are bad. You are bad too, if you don’t use proper DPS builds, which provide other damage/defense buffs to the group without lowering your DPS. If you don’t do this or at least try, you are as bad as the pugs you’re talking down upon.

You wish.

The OP would probably prefer shout ranger and support tank necro with massive facetank potential over their respective top deeps builds.

Emanuel.9781:

TL;DR version of the morale of the whole thread: Pugs are bad. You are bad too, if you don’t use proper DPS builds, which provide other damage/defense buffs to the group without lowering your DPS. If you don’t do this or at least try, you are as bad as the pugs you’re talking down upon.

+1

Sword clone is better than iDisenchanter.

Sword clone rips boons, and does it faster than iDisenchanter. With sharper images, it does more damage than iDisenchanter. It also applies vulnerability. It can be summoned faster as well.

Arkimedes.8730:

Sword clone is better than iDisenchanter.

Sword clone rips boons, and does it faster than iDisenchanter. With sharper images, it does more damage than iDisenchanter. It also applies vulnerability. It can be summoned faster as well.

But there are also mesmers that never run sword ever… ever.

they are bad, and you should regard them as such.

Arkimedes.8730:

Sword clone is better than iDisenchanter.

Sword clone rips boons, and does it faster than iDisenchanter. With sharper images, it does more damage than iDisenchanter. It also applies vulnerability. It can be summoned faster as well.

I had never thought about this, thanks.

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

lol

Ranger =/= ranged. How often did Strider use a bow in LotR? How often does Drizzt use a bow in classic FR novels (not the post 4ed tripe)? This isn’t a WoW hunter. The selfish player is the one who ignores the game mechanics and plays in a way that doesnt add to group dps, and doesn’t recieve boons, and doesn’t give boons either. Nothing like seeing all the mechanics of the game and saying NOPE, Ill Play How I Want.

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

Didn’t read.

Anyone tell me if this is pure sperg?

Variant.5129:

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

Didn’t read.

Anyone tell me if this is pure sperg?

can confirm some pretty good sperg

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger….

I’ll just say it’s rangers like you that give the class a bad reputation, and the kind of pug nobody ever wants to see in their parties. Not all rangers are like that, some are actually great players.

“sperge or not” rangers main weapon in this game are bows & our traits & damage are increased as we are further from the target or not?
Every dungeon run & every FoM want us to play like chanters of AION. Buff grp, heal grp, use 50% of your limited skill options to enhance THEIR playing experience or time frame wishes. Meanwhile they are going to ostracise your class in LFGS & down talk your dps in the forums & make guilds that say zero medium armor/rangers welcome etc etc. Is that not sperge?
I am all for grp effort, but it goes both ways. The wannabe elitist wants to shine their brightest & want me to polish their nobs with my “support skills” while they dps & play their toon as always then turn around & say how great they were & tell us about every crit they hit lol as if they didn’t have support to keep them up & running & enhanced. Like they would have survived or dps that consistently without the viagra “support players” contributed~ well spurt dps-downed zerker guy- 2 others stop dps to rez downed guy (with his MF food & only indivdualised dps skills slotted)-spurt dps rinse repeat is not exactly the most efficient approach^^

GRP effort requires the almighty dps to make a few concessions as well, in the name of the team. Things like appropriate consumables & building themselves in a manner that doesn’t require a full time bebe sitter & diaper changer will result in pretty much the same goal being reached with the average squads~ finish the run in an efficient timely manner without outrageous repair bills.
Just because many of the “dps are built to elite specs” doesn’t mean they are solid enough to play those specs, so instead of blaming the perceived “support” why not address the real issue~ the “pretenders” of the “dps” class?

Holymoly ur still at it

Upham.6137:

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger….

I’ll just say it’s rangers like you that give the class a bad reputation, and the kind of pug nobody ever wants to see in their parties. Not all rangers are like that, some are actually great players.

LMAO rangers like me? Why because I am aware that MOST of those that build glass cannons are not solid enough players & are extremely demanding, unfair, & high maintenance egos that 8/10 is inflated? Maybe it’s because I am tired of hearing people put rangers on the back burner as useless dps when the majority of us come prepared to support whatever the situation calls for~ even after sitting in LFG for 45minutes watching other parties with NO RANGERS ALLOWED fill up & move out.
This game gives all classes some defense skills & helpful consumables as well & it’s fine if they want to sacrifice those options for higher dps for the party, but just cuz a honda civic can go as fast as a porsche doesn’t it mean it handles like one & certainly not everyone knows how to drive the latter to get the most out of it no matter how much they stomp their feet & yell in the forums blaming the “support classes” for their inability to admit they just aren’t as OP as they think they are.
Let’s deal with reality & admit, not all of you live up to your individual hype ^^ If being able to make that distinction & voice it among the sheeple makes me a terrible ranger to have in your fantasy squad so be it.

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

So you don’t want to dps and you don’t want to buff, and you don’t want to take advantage of buffs of others, and you don’t want to help res others, and you don’t want others to help res you, and… why should anyone take you into their group again, because you basically admit that your build is useless for everyone but other rangers? Why don’t you just create “rangers only” group and enjoy your awesome ranged buffs.

Seveleniumus.5973:

So you don’t want to dps and you don’t want to buff, and you don’t want to take advantage of buffs of others, and you don’t want to help res others, and you don’t want others to help res you, and… why should anyone take you into their group again, because you basically admit that your build is useless for everyone but other rangers? Why don’t you just create “rangers only” group and enjoy your awesome ranged buffs.

No. I don’t want to hear B.S. about rangers & other medium armor classes to be at fault when players that live in a fantasy world want a scapegoat to hide behind the fact, that although the math is there for certain “elite squads to accomplish” efficiency the MAJORITY of those here complaining about “support classes” failing to give them what they want, in reality is they themselves are not actually contributing the same numbers in the equation as true elite glass cannon built party players do. Even the BEST squad of solid players will not make it to max potential efficiency every run or even close. So their whole blame game is as ridiculous as some of the things mentioned in my replies to others. It’s all magique on papier, but let’s be real about the usual applications of ALL people in the party. I can do everything absolutely perfect as support, it doesn’t mean every “dps” wannabe will know how to use it. They can do everything perfect, it doesn’t mean the other dps or gaurdians are going to be as solid, therefore their argument is B.S. witch hunting.

Range combat doesn’t work for clearing dungeons, boon support and damage potential just doesn’t support it. Like it or hate it this makes ranged dps/support a non entity. Deal with it. Nothing in the ranger class discriptions says they have to use a bow in every and all situations either. They give you access to melee/short range weapons like sword and axe for situations where they are better. Like in dungeons.

Its better to go 4 man than deal with a bearbow, kick the leaches.

ItWasntMe.7102:

Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior.

I actually made a ranger because I found this character epic :

I couldn’t think of a ranger staying at range, so I’m happy the meta build goes S/W.

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

^ Here is the reason I made the thread folks!
1. Range Dps is never greater than Melee DPS. On almost every class (except ele which technically has no melee.) Greatsword damage can be amazing!

2. As much as I hate to say it (I honestly felt useful) Cleric’s gear is really not useful at all in dungeons.

3. People don’t expect you to drop healing spring and then roll back to being ranged. They don’t expect you to be ranged at all.

4. When you drop Healing spring instead of rolling back have x/warhorn ready and blast that water field allowing yourself and everyone else in your party to have a good heal (btw guards can blast healing spring at least twice before it disappears that is ALOT of group healing. You should stick around for that.)

5. Attack/MF food is not bad at all because usually MF food has something sweet like boon duration (guards anyone?) which is one of the reasons people bring guards.

6. Rangers have great things like spotter if you are at 1500 range a trait like spotter (which you prolly don’t have.) won’t affect your group so once again you are not helping your DPS at all because you are out of range of everyone else’s buff and they aren’t in range of yours. Having said that your DPS will suffer much much more than theirs.

7. You have multiple ways to access vigor as a ranger (some classes get one or none aint you special?!) meaning that staying and dodging in melee range should be no problem for you.

8. If you are in my party and you go down while being far away I will not go back to res you. One of the reasons people stack in melee range is that people can almost insta res any party member as soon as they are down running back to res someone will lower DPS much much more than just ressing you right in melee range.

So please don’t tell us that everyone else is bad because you want to sit back and range with your Pew pew when you would be doing much better to be next to your party with everyone else.

Pew pew long bow rangers (knockback is nice) are one of the main reasons i made this thread. You guys have great traits and combo fields with blast finishers that you just refuse to use. You have the options there but you refuse to capitalize on them thanks for showing my point.

ItWasntMe.7102:

Seveleniumus.5973:

So you don’t want to dps and you don’t want to buff, and you don’t want to take advantage of buffs of others, and you don’t want to help res others, and you don’t want others to help res you, and… why should anyone take you into their group again, because you basically admit that your build is useless for everyone but other rangers? Why don’t you just create “rangers only” group and enjoy your awesome ranged buffs.

No. I don’t want to hear B.S. about rangers & other medium armor classes to be at fault when players that live in a fantasy world want a scapegoat to hide behind the fact, that although the math is there for certain “elite squads to accomplish” efficiency the MAJORITY of those here complaining about “support classes” failing to give them what they want, in reality is they themselves are not actually contributing the same numbers in the equation as true elite glass cannon built party players do. Even the BEST squad of solid players will not make it to max potential efficiency every run or even close. So their whole blame game is as ridiculous as some of the things mentioned in my replies to others. It’s all magique on papier, but let’s be real about the usual applications of ALL people in the party. I can do everything absolutely perfect as support, it doesn’t mean every “dps” wannabe will know how to use it. They can do everything perfect, it doesn’t mean the other dps or gaurdians are going to be as solid, therefore their argument is B.S. witch hunting.

I love the other medium armor classes Engi’s can stack might like a baws, with their blasts. Thieves have a spammable blast, shadow refuge (great for skipping!) as well as pistol whip which is amazing DPS.

I love rangers which have spotter x/w and greatsword with healing spring. The amount that a “GOOD” ranger (one who knows how to leap and blast) can heal with healing spring is quite amazing.

Please do everyone you run with a favor and stop ranging. Your survivability will actually improve believe it or not.

Enaretos.8079:

ItWasntMe.7102:

Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior.

I actually made a ranger because I found this character epic :

Fate Stay Night Anime

hide spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTijtqF89Jc

I couldn’t think of a ranger staying at range, so I’m happy the meta build goes S/W.

OMG after reading the title i was about to say that archers can beat berserkers any time and then watched it :/

Shame on me i have only watched fate/zero yet.

Btw I am not a bearbow ranger. Chances are the “great pretenders” probably outnumber the bearbow types 10-1.
Many of you don’t “out contribute” us in party runs as much as you like to imagine whether we play support or dps. Looks great on papier, but alot of you aren’t consistent or optimal in the application process. So in the end there isn’t a huge gap in dps if any.
Those of you that insist on keeping your omnom bar on despite the fact you are bringing down your ENTIRE parties dps with your up n down routine every 6-7 hits when they have to pause to help you up cuz you can’t stay alive between healing cds, perhaps you are the true leeches. After all if you know you can’t stay up long why omonoms over dps or defense consumables? Is that looking out for your team?

There are some AMAZING players in every class, some of you need to face it~ you may not be one of them no matter how closely you copy their build, or use their lingo.
Flexibility is a good thing for all classes to be, not just those you expect “nonstop support” from.

Ranger using signets here.
I run a 30/20/20 build with zerker gear.
In dungeons I always have Spotter, Off-hand Training , s/w and Healing Spring.

My second set changes according to the situation, it can be GS, x/axe (#5 is a good projectile reflect + a nice burst) or, in few occasions, LB or x/torch.

For the moment I think Signet of the Wild and Signet of Stone are great for my pets durabilty. A dead pet means about 20% of my DPS lost.
I also use Signet of the Beastmaster trait (= active effect applies also on ranger), so stability+invulnerability can be useful not only to save my animal, but also to save me while reviving a downed ally focused by the boss and thus left alone by the other party memebers (yes, I only do pug).

My third utilities is changed here and there, if possibile Frost Spirit is welcome, but there are encounters where it just dies too soon no matter the position.

I don’t know if you consider this a selfish build, I am still trying to find a balance between support (the very little ranger can do) and self effectivness.

I run Hammer/Staff 0/0/30/20/20 AH on my Guard, guess I’ll never see 90% of people posting in this thread in-game. lol

No one has ever kicked me so far.

ItWasntMe.7102:

Btw I am not a bearbow ranger. Chances are the “great pretenders” probably outnumber the bearbow types 10-1.
Many of you don’t “out contribute” us in party runs as much as you like to imagine whether we play support or dps. Looks great on papier, but alot of you aren’t consistent or optimal in the application process. So in the end there isn’t a huge gap in dps if any.
Those of you that insist on keeping your omnom bar on despite the fact you are bringing down your ENTIRE parties dps with your up n down routine every 6-7 hits when they have to pause to help you up cuz you can’t stay alive between healing cds, perhaps you are the true leeches. After all if you know you can’t stay up long why omonoms over dps or defense consumables? Is that looking out for your team?

There are some AMAZING players in every class, some of you need to face it~ you may not be one of them no matter how closely you copy their build, or use their lingo.
Flexibility is a good thing for all classes to be, not just those you expect “nonstop support” from.

If you camp at 1500 range with a longbow you do not give buffs to group members or receive any from them. Sword/X dps is higher than longbow even at max range. You are bringing down your group dps by ranging 24/7.

Stop making excuses for your terrible gameplay.

knives.6345:

I run Hammer/Staff 0/0/30/20/20 AH on my Guard, guess I’ll never see 90% of people posting in this thread in-game. lol

No one has ever kicked me so far.

Yeah maybe but you just slow down the run

Jeremlloyd.6837:

knives.6345:

I run Hammer/Staff 0/0/30/20/20 AH on my Guard, guess I’ll never see 90% of people posting in this thread in-game. lol

No one has ever kicked me so far.

Yeah maybe but you just slow down the run

Still no one kicked me. No one complained, PUG or guild. “I” slowed them, what? 1 minute or less for CoF and HotW? A few minutes on Arah and AC? Oh wait, maybe they carried me? Oh yes! Me swinging that hammer does absolutely no damage. Me giving Virtue 1 adds 1 damage. I did NOTHING for the group.

Because everytime we run a dungeon, we have this mindset. Finish early – wait, no… It’s finish this dungeon on X time – if we can’t, it’s the doom of mankind.
Curse the one Necro who joined us. Kitten that warrior, who despite the last man standing if we wipe, uses the 5 signet. It’s always their fault, right? Oh we wiped because that Ranger would not pop the Healing Spring. We took 1 minute more on Lupi because that Warrior would not share buffs.

I am not forcing this “bad build” – I’m just saying a few minutes late than the average run time is negligible – unless you’re dying and only have few moments to live.. This is of course, in my point of view.

PS:

And yes, I know how to play DPS guardian. I just cycle through common builds to see people’s reaction. Was a bit disappointed in-game, here in the forums, I saw what I wanted to see. Cheers!

Arkimedes.8730:

Sword clone is better than iDisenchanter.

Sword clone rips boons, and does it faster than iDisenchanter. With sharper images, it does more damage than iDisenchanter. It also applies vulnerability. It can be summoned faster as well.

I do this and bring null field (for coe mainly). Just turn on clone on dodge if it’s not on and you’re good.

Unforunately PUGs usually don’t know that it works this way, so more often than not I have to defend it and tell them why it works.

The reason I believe why DPS builds are the way to go is because most classes have all the damage mitigation they need: That dodge button. Guardians get it easier with the extras from Virtues and all those access to boons, so there’s no need to support your group when they should be dodging telegraphed attacks in the first place. Having the boss live longer than they’re supposed to means a higher chance of someone getting downed and a greater chance of a group wipe. There’s no need to tank for your team in dungeons, players should know their class and all their ways of damage mitigation to take care of themselves.

DPS build for all classes in PvE, 100%. Unless they change the boss mechanics to favor survivability skills more.

The only way they can make that happen is if they give faster attacks to the enemies. Currently the bosses just hit you so hard they 1-2 shot you regardless of tankiness. lots of small attacks that you can’t dodge all the time is really the only way to encourage healing/survivability. Dodging/blocking/aegis/evade/invul + high dps is just currently better than building for survivability at the expense of dps.

yes speccing for survivability won’t slow things down to much if you don’t go whole hog on it. But if that becomes the meta 5 guys going AH or its equivalent in other classes will. Then you get into the guys who go with cleric shout heal warriors or water camped eles and you get into full “this fight is too long” mode on every single boss. Just the other night I carried a party in CM that insisted on ranging and the other guards camped staff… Took 10 minutes to kill Frost, which is longer than most of the dungeon should have taken.

notabot.3497:

The only way they can make that happen is if they give faster attacks to the enemies. Currently the bosses just hit you so hard they 1-2 shot you regardless of tankiness. lots of small attacks that you can’t dodge all the time is really the only way to encourage healing/survivability. Dodging/blocking/aegis/evade/invul + high dps is just currently better than building for survivability at the expense of dps.

Honestly, this is the direction the game needs to be going in. It simply needs enemies to attack faster and have less HP. This would encourage more varied playstyles and also make things like confusion and retaliation more effective in the process. It seems like fractals is starting to take a step in this direction by introducing difficulty with instabilities rather than just making mobs more tanky, which is really nice IMO.

knives.6345:

I run Hammer/Staff 0/0/30/20/20 AH on my Guard, guess I’ll never see 90% of people posting in this thread in-game. lol

No one has ever kicked me so far.

I used to run that exact build. And I’ll be honest I feel much more useful in a DPS 0/25/0/20/25 build. You have a much higher crit chance in a DPS build which means much more dodging and honestly more survivability. I can understand running full soldiers/clerics especially in a dungeon you don’t know (I still have yet to master arah.)

But in other dungeons it is generally best to just run a DPS build.

necro here, i always play with a support build, i need to in order to make my build work on the most effective way.
i wish ppl stop underestimating my build, i can do more on my own then most can do in a group of 3.

sorudo.9054:

necro here, i always play with a support build, i need to in order to make my build work on the most effective way.
i wish ppl stop underestimating my build, i can do more on my own then most can do in a group of 3.

No, you can’t. I wish people would stop saying things like this that ignore reality.

sorudo.9054:

necro here, i always play with a support build, i need to in order to make my build work on the most effective way.
i wish ppl stop underestimating my build, i can do more on my own then most can do in a group of 3.

Yeah!

My cleric bear bow can take lupi better than those 5 dps zerkers. I is underestimate too much.

JMar.3254:

sorudo.9054:

necro here, i always play with a support build, i need to in order to make my build work on the most effective way.
i wish ppl stop underestimating my build, i can do more on my own then most can do in a group of 3.

Yeah!

My cleric bear bow can take lupi better than those 5 dps zerkers. I is underestimate too much.

Support Doesn’t = Cleric….