Guild Wars 2

Im confused why anyone cares how fast you can kill tentacles on maw? Maw lvl is so easy and dps really isnt taken into account at all there.. unless you count clearing the mobs

Wethospu.6437:

I was just criticized (I used Rush to increase singletarget DPS, apparently it’s not something you should do!) by a shout-heal Warrior relying mostly on Hammer auto-attack (his words: “I’m healer/interrupter”, magis armor).

On a group which already had a ridiculously low DPS. We kept dying when clearing Maw-level… And also, when I had killed one tentacle solo, the other one (which rest of the team were focusing) was at 50%. I don’t know what they were doing but I seriously hope my DPS wasn’t 66% of whole team.

A guildy of mine suggested what I think would be an awesome feature: at the end of every dungeon, a summary screen could pop up and display relevant stats for each party member: enemies killed, damage dealt, times downed, etc.

I think in PUGs like the one you mentioned a good warrior could easily be over 50% of the team’s damage.

So the bit we are supposed to be looking at is the 90k damage? I looked at it at first and was like, whats he trying to say… 90k aint that much on the superheated boss.

What a lot of people seem to completely disregard is that personal dps in NOT everything in runs especially fotm.

Staying alive is equally important to keeping your team’s dps up and if you are a warrior with high dps who is good enough at your profession to be able to keep up that high dps and not be downing all the time, thats great and I applaud you, but do you REALLY want to promote 75% of all players being warriors in all runs?

If people start seeing that everyone is valuing high dps in their groups above all else, it’s going to attract people who build accordingly but have no experience in not dying and supporting the team. I play guard in fotm 48 constantly and while I dont have the dmg output of a war, (my war was my first char and I love him but now he usually sits outside CoF) I see many times that I am the reason that the war who is out dps-ing everyone else can stay alive and be able to keep swinging that gs and using burst skills effectively.

All I want to get across is that teams work best when everyone can play their role effectively and this can be just as fast or faster than a group of all/mostly wars..

No dude I’m not trying to make this a personal thing at all, Im saying that there is more than 1 class in this game, and people should be able to play them all without being reprimanded by the “dps is best everything else useless” group.

I’ll add my experiences to the pot.

I don’t run a full DPS build on my Warrior; I am 2/3 Berserker. The other 1/3 I switch between PVT gear for commanding in WvW / team support in PvE if I’m the only melee and Zerker for joke-mode PvE content where everything melts anyway. In my groups, I’m not stingey about what classes everyone brings, so sometimes I run into groups where I am the only melee class against a boss that does 1/2 of a zerker warrior’s HP per hit with an auto-attack. In those cases I typically prefer to be a bit bulkier so that I can support the team if they get hit or survive an extra hit myself since I’m the only one in his face. The extra bulk really helps if someone gets downed and you have to res them while weathering fire.

I do agree that it’s important to bring significant DPS to the table, but I don’t think it’s “100% berserker or you’re a bad player”. My Guardian runs full PVT gear, but maintains 16-19 stacks of might on the entire team constantly, perma protection, perma swiftness, perma regeneration, huge control, and numerous on-demand aoe aegis activations. I have tested it thoroughly, and teams that bring my guardian and a few warriors do significantly more damage than all warriors because I serve as an anchor that allows those other warriors to do their damage unfettered. They don’t have to dodge as often, or back out of melee ever, all because I sit there and laugh at the enemy boss’s dps while making my allies stronger.

There is more to the game than dps, but certain classes fill certain roles significantly better than others. It’s important to be able to identify those classes that shine in certain ways and to support your team successfully however best suits your class.

Me Kill You.9035:

No dude I’m not trying to make this a personal thing at all, Im saying that there is more than 1 class in this game, and people should be able to play them all without being reprimanded by the “dps is best everything else useless” group.

If other classed worked as well in PvE as Guardians / Warriors / Mesmers, then people probably wouldn’t have much of an issue with “bring whatever you want.” My experience with groups that don’t care about class composition has been that the members were poor players and the runs were beyond painful. I’d rather be in a group of players that understand that there are superior PvE classes and restrict group composition to those classes. Granted, there are plenty of people that play Guardian or Warrior or whatever very poorly and still make “LF1M ZERK WARR PING GEAR” posts, but at the very least I’d be playing with classes that I know are capable of at least contributing something worthwhile.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

If other classed worked as well in PvE as Guardians / Warriors / Mesmers, then people probably wouldn’t have much of an issue with “bring whatever you want.”

The problem isn’t that those classes are bad in PvE, but that those classes have higher skill thresholds in PvE than Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer are easy to play, which means on average you see fewer bad ones, whereas PvE Engineers/Necros/Thieves are very hard to play well, but extremely rewarding when played well.

I play my Necromancer exclusively in L48 FotM, and I’d be happy to do a run with anyone here to prove just how valuable the class is to a group in PvE. You want to see an increase in DPS? How about if those Dredge don’t have protection anymore? What if I said I could turn that Protection into 15 stacks of Vulnerability? How about perma AOE weakness on every enemy you encounter? The only thing that mitigates more damage than my Necromancer’s blinds is a OH Pistol Thief, which if played well is also an incredible asset to a team in PvE.

If you’re pugging with randoms you don’t know, I can understand being wary of a Thief or a Necromancer or whatever, but trust you in me that a good player can make those classes shine just as bright as any Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer.

Rising Dusk.2408:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

If other classed worked as well in PvE as Guardians / Warriors / Mesmers, then people probably wouldn’t have much of an issue with “bring whatever you want.”

The problem isn’t that those classes are bad in PvE, but that those classes have higher skill thresholds in PvE than Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer are easy to play, which means on average you see fewer bad ones, whereas PvE Engineers/Necros/Thieves are very hard to play well, but extremely rewarding when played well.

I play my Necromancer exclusively in L48 FotM, and I’d be happy to do a run with anyone here to prove just how valuable the class is to a group in PvE. You want to see an increase in DPS? How about if those Dredge don’t have protection anymore? What if I said I could turn that Protection into 15 stacks of Vulnerability? How about perma AOE weakness on every enemy you encounter? The only thing that mitigates more damage than my Necromancer’s blinds is a OH Pistol Thief, which if played well is also an incredible asset to a team in PvE.

If you’re pugging with randoms you don’t know, I can understand being wary of a Thief or a Necromancer or whatever, but trust you in me that a good player can make those classes shine just as bright as any Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer.

Mesmer strips boons with Sword autoattack and applies bulnerability. Guardian applies vulnerability when using anything that blinds. Warriors apply vulnerability on crit. Necros aren’t needed for applying vulnerability and removing boons.

Warriors / Guardians / Mesmers are not easier to play than any other class. You can be the best Necro / Thief / Ranger / Engi in the world and still contribute less to a group than a similarly skilled Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer.

@Nik:

Well, you seem set in your ways, so it is pointless to argue on the forums. That said, I’d love to show you what I mean sometime. Let me know if you’re interested.

That’s all true, and I’m well aware of it.

My perspective is a little different because I don’t play PvE exclusively; I also play WvW a lot, where running a berserker warrior is perhaps the single greatest way to die as fast as possible and help your group as little as possible, and where PVT gear is very important for pretty much anything that wants to lead a pack against an enemy force. My builds and styles are primarily chosen to be good enough in PvE, and ideal in WvW for my role. That way I don’t have to carry a dozen different armor sets for different situations (or retrait every time I switch from PvE / WvW; that’s pricey!).

I suppose I run a Necromancer exclusively in FotM these days because I like giving Necromancers a good name. I like knowing that I can join a pub group of “whatever” and contribute a lot to a group that is most certainly not optimized and can use every bit of help it can get. I like that afterward, most will comment that they’ve never seen a Necromancer contribute so positively to a group, and maybe in future runs those guys won’t kick Necros, or will at least give them a chance. Maybe I just enjoy the way a Necromancer plays more than the GW2 trinity (W / G / M) for certain instances. Maybe I’m just a bad player who won’t admit it. Whatever it is, I know that Necromancers aren’t suited for the fastest speed clears in the world, but that my groups are usually not that far behind them. It sure doesn’t feel like I am dragging my guild teams through the mud when I play something other than a W / G / M. 45 minute FotM 48’s are pretty good in my book.