Guild Wars 2

Ropechef.6192:

eldrin.6471:

The people buying large amounts of gems are not and never will be the same people that can do raids.and by marginalizing the people who are the life blood of this game anet have committed economic suicide.

I buy lots of gems,

I raid…

I also WvW and PvP,

your point?

His point is he doesn’t like raids so they shouldn’t exist but he can’t out right say that.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Warcry.1596:

RustyMech.9876:

It’s not even that challenging to be frank. The first time that I did it, I felt it was like “baby’s first raid”. I’m not saying that it is not fun, which it is, but it’s no more difficult then what fractals are before you know the mechanics.

Difficulty is measured by a percentage of the player base that can/has completed it. Honestly with how few people I hear that have beaten it, or are even continuing to try, it makes me wonder how much further they can go with it. Why develop something for that small of a population, it seems to not make much sense from a business standpoint; why put resources into something for only a small group of your customers.

I’m not saying it should be changed, or they should stop, I just think based on current metrics, it’s a poor investment :p

What you say is true. However, Anet said they expected only a small percentage of players to ever complete the raid. That would be fine if there were enough other content to keep everyone else satiated, but there isn’t.

So then will they really maintain content creation for such a small percentage?

Warcry.1596:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Warcry.1596:

RustyMech.9876:

It’s not even that challenging to be frank. The first time that I did it, I felt it was like “baby’s first raid”. I’m not saying that it is not fun, which it is, but it’s no more difficult then what fractals are before you know the mechanics.

Difficulty is measured by a percentage of the player base that can/has completed it. Honestly with how few people I hear that have beaten it, or are even continuing to try, it makes me wonder how much further they can go with it. Why develop something for that small of a population, it seems to not make much sense from a business standpoint; why put resources into something for only a small group of your customers.

I’m not saying it should be changed, or they should stop, I just think based on current metrics, it’s a poor investment :p

What you say is true. However, Anet said they expected only a small percentage of players to ever complete the raid. That would be fine if there were enough other content to keep everyone else satiated, but there isn’t.

So then will they really maintain content creation for such a small percentage?

So they really spend thousands of dollars for only a few people at the top of PvP?

PvP can get them money though, via sponsors and stuff. I mean I suppose raids could too but I don’t think people would be interested in competitive PvE raiding :p

Warcry.1596:

PvP can get them money though, via sponsors and stuff. I mean I suppose raids could too but I don’t think people would be interested in competitive PvE raiding :p

Highlighted the important word in there : )

Yes, it’s an investment, with a chance at profit and a larger player base. It has the POTENTIAL to draw publicity, is it possible for there to be an esport for GW2 raids?

I had 14 ascended armor chests in my bank. With the ‘change prefix’ of ascended gear change, and now HoT, I had a lot lf luck. My settlers armor boxes became usefull. Ascended gear wich I ignored mostly (just got a zerker set for medium armor, and since i love celestial i made that also, though it kinda sucks in raids now). But now i got a sinister (mostly payed for, but stil lworth it), maurader and assassin set. I can join raids with 3-5 character in ‘ascended now’.

But if you ask me, do you wanna make an armor now? Absolutely not. It’s way to expensive with the demand spike. And that is from a veteran player with enough time to grind gold a day. Say that i only had celestial armor now, i simply would NOT BE ABLE to play raids. Simple as that. Pretty sad isn’kitten

Now for a new or casual player, geez. The amount of effort, is crazy high. To high. Basically saying ‘you don’t get access to raids, sorry guys, unless you use your credit card’.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Warcry.1596:

PvP can get them money though, via sponsors and stuff. I mean I suppose raids could too but I don’t think people would be interested in competitive PvE raiding :p

Highlighted the important word in there : )

Pvp can get 200 000$ or more sponsored money per tournement? don’t think so. Steve fowler is throwing with money in the hope it will create something that ‘later fix’ his debt issue, but the conclusion later will be that it’s wasted money, that should not have been spend on tournement (at least not that much).

I’m still reserving opinion on this, funny fact is though that I bought GW2 only because it was a game that had no raids. I hated spending sooo many hours raiding/waiting.

Well now it has raids. And I spent too many hours trying them XD If I can’t get kitten I want in time I find acceptable => I ’ll stop doing them, w/e.

I won’t pay any more money to Anet though until I know i can get legendary armor in reasonable time. Because this infinite stat nonsense isn’t something I want to waste my time on, esp with how for every raid boss I need a different durping class.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Warcry.1596:

PvP can get them money though, via sponsors and stuff. I mean I suppose raids could too but I don’t think people would be interested in competitive PvE raiding :p

Highlighted the important word in there : )

Pvp can get 200 000$ or more sponsored money per tournement? don’t think so. Steve fowler is throwing with money in the hope it will create something that ‘later fix’ his debt issue, but the conclusion later will be that it’s wasted money, that should not have been spend on tournement (at least not that much).

I dunno who that is. But you’re missing the point. The POTENTIAL revenue from PvP is apparently worth it for ArenaNet to invest money and resources into it.

That is all I was saying, even if it’s a small portion of the player base, they still see it as a way to possibly make money.

It is worth mentioning (again), that ascended armor is not required for raids. The same goes for the mastery, that allows you to benefit from the adrenaline mushroom* . The difference in DPS, that ascended armor gives you (as opposed to weapons and/or trinkets), is marginal compared to knowing the mechanics and dealing with the logistics of having 10 people not fail horribly.

*I don’t have it and yet I always pull my weight at Vale. Haven’t done the other two though, because of a lack of time.

Veydar.5017:

It is worth mentioning (again), that ascended armor is not required for raids. The same goes for the mastery, that allows you to benefit from the adrenaline mushroom* . The difference in DPS, that ascended armor gives you (as opposed to weapons and/or trinkets), is marginal compared to knowing the mechanics and dealing with the logistics of having 10 people not fail horribly.

*I don’t have it and yet I always pull my weight at Vale. Haven’t done the other two though, because of a lack of time.

You’re missing the point.

It’s not important, for all practical reasons, if ascended armor is not mandatory at least for the VG. It’s important that 99 out of 100 you won’t get into a raiding group if you don’t have full ascended gear and a class that is considered (most of the times, out of sheer ignorance) a meta one.

Galandil.9641:

Veydar.5017:

It is worth mentioning (again), that ascended armor is not required for raids. The same goes for the mastery, that allows you to benefit from the adrenaline mushroom* . The difference in DPS, that ascended armor gives you (as opposed to weapons and/or trinkets), is marginal compared to knowing the mechanics and dealing with the logistics of having 10 people not fail horribly.

*I don’t have it and yet I always pull my weight at Vale. Haven’t done the other two though, because of a lack of time.

You’re missing the point.

It’s not important, for all practical reasons, if ascended armor is not mandatory at least for the VG. It’s important that 99 out of 100 you won’t get into a raiding group if you don’t have full ascended gear and a class that is considered (most of the times, out of sheer ignorance) a meta one.

Fair point. I didn’t know that PUGs had such strict requirements.

Veydar.5017:

Galandil.9641:

You’re missing the point.

It’s not important, for all practical reasons, if ascended armor is not mandatory at least for the VG. It’s important that 99 out of 100 you won’t get into a raiding group if you don’t have full ascended gear and a class that is considered (most of the times, out of sheer ignorance) a meta one.

Fair point. I didn’t know that PUGs had such strict requirements.

The sad part it’s that’s not only true for PUGs, but even if you try to join a guild that does raids.

Just check the official subforum, or try to ask in game: they’ll ask you to have at least two meta (and again, meta as in “I saw these people doing it that way, so it must be the only way possible” – with no real thought put into it) classes with full ascended equipment available, if not, they won’t even bother to let you join the guild raids.

This is actually cutting out a lot of players out of raids, and we all know what happened in the past with raiding games – on WoW only 10% of the population made raids regularly (and the attitude, well…), and Wildstar went down the drain so fast it was appalling.

Top that with the fact that now ascended equipment costs a LOT more than before HoT, the question now becomes “what’s the point?”.

Warcry.1596:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Warcry.1596:

PvP can get them money though, via sponsors and stuff. I mean I suppose raids could too but I don’t think people would be interested in competitive PvE raiding :p

Highlighted the important word in there : )

Pvp can get 200 000$ or more sponsored money per tournement? don’t think so. Steve fowler is throwing with money in the hope it will create something that ‘later fix’ his debt issue, but the conclusion later will be that it’s wasted money, that should not have been spend on tournement (at least not that much).

I dunno who that is. But you’re missing the point. The POTENTIAL revenue from PvP is apparently worth it for ArenaNet to invest money and resources into it.

That is all I was saying, even if it’s a small portion of the player base, they still see it as a way to possibly make money.

And the POTENTIAL increase of players do to raids apparently is worth it to ArenaNet. See how this works? xD

eldrin.6471:

The people buying large amounts of gems are not and never will be the same people that can do raids.and by marginalizing the people who are the life blood of this game anet have committed economic suicide.

Well I don’t think it will be a game killer, but they sure will lose alot of players and revenue. I love to raid and have been successful but many in our guild are disappearing because of raids (the timer and build-profession requirements). But at this stage there are many options available to them, like difficulty levels and such.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And the POTENTIAL increase of players do to raids apparently is worth it to ArenaNet. See how this works? xD

Maybe Anet is trying to get two bites of the cherry. The dungeons were supposed to attract the “hard content, instanced” players. They’ve been let languish. Adding raids could be an attempt to offer those players something new to retain their interest. Under that theory, Anet thinks there are enough other things to do that those who will not do raids will still have plenty to keep them occupied. Maybe they think they can weather the storm of, “It’s there so it must be for all of us.” thinking.

As it is, I have a hard time thinking there will be a ton of players who rage quit because they can’t raid. With that in mind, ANet only need retain enough someones they would have lost to balance the ones they might lose. Any new players attracted to raids would be gravy.

Galandil.9641:

Wahaha.7938:

Alejandro.3285:

Raids will destroy GW2, because raid people now only want a certain (very select few) of classes in the raid.

That’s not true at all.

What’s not true? The fact that people now just go in raids picking few classes/builds just because pseudo-meta? Even if there’re better alternatives?

That will remain the case until people become more skilled. You have to remember you are only as strong as the weakest link, and with bosses with such tight dps checks, these pseudo-meta are there for a reason. Don’t blame the players.

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

The only content in Guild Wars 2 I can think of that’s not readily available to me at my whim are the specific home instances of other players and other guilds’ guild halls.

What content isn’t available to you? Because if your answer is “raids” then, that’s not correct. Walk into VB, tag up, “LFM VG raid – all welcome” and you can be fighting Vale Guardian inside of 15 minutes.

Well it’s available to everyone the thing is whether or not you can do it.

PvP is available to everybody too, but I don’t do PvP because I hate it yet you don’t see me complaining about how PvP is gated/unwelcoming etc.

Raids are accessible to everyone, I don’t have full ascended on my engineers yet I’ve cleared Vale and not been kicked in pugs nor in guild groups.

Land of Cheese.2584:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be suitable for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

The only content in Guild Wars 2 I can think of that’s not readily available to me at my whim are the specific home instances of other players and other guilds’ guild halls.

What content isn’t available to you? Because if your answer is “raids” then, that’s not correct. Walk into VB, tag up, “LFM VG raid – all welcome” and you can be fighting Vale Guardian inside of 15 minutes.

Ok I’ll modifiy that statement slightly.

fishball.7204:

Snip

Raids are accessible to everyone, I don’t have full ascended on my engineers yet I’ve cleared Vale and not been kicked in pugs nor in guild groups.

And I have only beaten VG 1 time because my ping/lag was not bad but at other times my ping/lag was bad and so I have been removed or kicked. Is ping/lag my fault? If so then I guess I can’t do the content so its not available to me. If not then Anet need to find a workable solution to a very real problem.

I don’t have a problem with raids being in GW2. Probably will never do the raids in this game myself, my raiding days are long over and it doesn’t thrill me anymore. I have the ascended gear to do them, just not the will.

But choice is good. So having another game mode in GW2 is ok. And it sounds like many people like the challenge, that’s cool.

The problem is that HoT didn’t just introduce raids, it killed many of the other game modes at the same time. And forced people to do content they don’t like doing.

What made GW2 great was that it didn’t require you to do most of the content. You had choices and if you didn’t like a particular game mode that was ok. You weren’t kitten because of it. You could play what you liked and still progress. “Play your way”.

HoT reduced choices and forced epic grinds in the choices left. It’s just a really, really borked expansion for the people who were shafted.

use exo gear from WVWVW vendor (as they can be salv back for expensive runes), get asc trinkets, and if can get asc weapon it will be great!
we enjoyed raid. its fun. but if it scale down a little for second boss, it will be better. as oceanic player in EU server, we lag. the lag affect gliding and also jumping platform and bomb throwing timer. … so if we can adjust this to fit better for the lag we experienced for oceanic players in EU server it will be appreciated

Torolan.5816:

I am not sure, OP.

I doubt raids will destroy GW2, but it will change it for sure in a new direction I personally dislike. The frirst guild made the entire raid in 11:20 hours a day over the span of 3 days. Tell me what you like, that is not casual. A timespan like this over an extended period of time is a very good reason to get frired, divorced or socially awkward.

I am a little bit happy about the chance to get legendary armor the really hard way by failing the boss and then call it a day. This is indeed important for people like me who are both unwilling and unable to spend their whole gaming time in a raid. It´s something I would normally not give a flying kitten about, but legendary armor is not just a convenience item. it means that you can take on chances most of the time you can´t take if you don´t have a closet of a multitude of other armor sets. Then there is also the nagging feeling that you are a second class citizen if you are not willing or able to do raids. Does anyone really think that people pay for the privilege to be second class, barely tolerated citizen with their own ghettos(read up the description of the word ghetto in the dictionary if you think this has something to do with right wing nationalism only) and camps(core Tyria)?

Hot catered to groups of people I loathe and/or have sympathetic mercy with, hardcore raiders and jumpers. I don´t regret buying HoT either, it would have nagged to much at me not to do it because I wanted to see where it heads and how it looks, but from my perspective it is around 70% grind and jumping garbage with 30% novel and enjoyable ideas.

I really, really hope that Anet takes a nosedive with this strategy and gets more casual friendly again.

This…this…so much this.
I dont like Raids, they are just a big time sink…in every MMO. There is no challenge in this raid, the only challenge is, to find 9 other players, who can decide on their own, when they want to eat and when they have to go to sleep. And sadly, thats a really hard challenge.

I wouldnt care about Raids, i wouldnt even waste a thought on Raids…but ANet decided to gate the legendary armor behind this huge time sink called raid.
I know, its just a cosmetic item, but cosmetic items are the endgame in GW2…and after 7 legendary weapons, it would have been nice, to work on a legendary armor.

The intention to draw new players with this raid content is clear, but i dont get, why they dont pay any attention to the playerbase that supported GW2 for the last 3 years.
I should be happy about new players, but now i am annoyed, cause of the legendary armor in this raid.

PvE Players who dont like to raid, have 4 new maps and a little bit of story…old content like dungeons are nerfed. The new Fractals system is not enough to make me play them again…i think i have seen every single fractal more than 100times, there is not even one new fractal.

The other thing that makes me upset: where is the challenging content? Sure, its more challenging, to coordinate 9 other players, then to coordinate 4 other players. But that should not be the definition of challenging content…or at least, that is not my definition of challenging content.

I think this raid content would have been a great Guild Mission, just make it scale from 10 to ~150 players…but thats another issue. There is nearly no new guild content. They redesigned the ui and the guild xp system. But the guild missions were boring pre HoT and now they are still boring. It´s just a cheap way to get ascended trinkets, not more, not less.

Under that theory, Anet thinks there are enough other things to do that those who will not do raids will still have plenty to keep them occupied.

This is the problem. There isn’t enough to do for those who aren’t in the official raid target audience. Yeah, there’s grinding for this and that, but that gets old really fast.

So these players only have raids to get out of the grind. But they weren’t designed for them, hence all the “I got kicked because I was wearing full knights gear” threads.

Torolan.5816:

I really, really hope that Anet takes a nosedive with this strategy and gets more casual friendly again.

As much as I was looking forward to raiding at first, I recently find myself thinking the exact same thing. The heart of this game is open world and strong story/dungeons – alongside wvw and pvp. Anything that pulls resources from that has the potential to take the game in a direction many of us simply don’t want to go.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

The content IS available for everyone, is it not?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

The content IS available for everyone, is it not?

Yes it’s available to everyone (with HoT). But to be fair, it’s not easy access for everyone. No Lobby, squad and LFG lacking, etc.

An easier mode for more casual would also be nice (and an infernal mode for hardcore ). For now, people need to have specific build and full ascended armors to have a place. You don’t necessarily need them, but pugs are stupid (not knowing that certain build are great even if they are not yet on meta battle) and want to have the best chance possible so they won’t bother with someone with exotic armor even it’s more than enough.

Thaddeus.4891:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

The content IS available for everyone, is it not?

Yes it’s available to everyone (with HoT). But to be fair, it’s not easy access for everyone. No Lobby, squad and LFG lacking, etc.

An easier mode for more casual would also be nice (and an infernal mode for hardcore ). For now, people need to have specific build and full ascended armors to have a place. You don’t necessarily need them, but pugs are stupid (not knowing that certain build are great even if they are not yet on meta battle) and want to have the best chance possible so they won’t bother with someone with exotic armor even it’s more than enough.

While two modes would be nice, Anet has already said with dungeons they don’t like that idea, I really don’t think they will do that for raids.

Ropechef.6192:

eldrin.6471:

The people buying large amounts of gems are not and never will be the same people that can do raids.and by marginalizing the people who are the life blood of this game anet have committed economic suicide.

I buy lots of gems,

I raid…

I also WvW and PvP,

your point?

The premise is that a raider is supposed to be a basement dweller that has the time to farm stuff instead of buying it. And thinking of how people here reported about completing the raid in 11:20 hours a day over the time span of 3 days, I have trouble fighting that impression too. Of course they could be freelancers, students or have taken days off, although the last alternative does not necessarily negate them being basement dwellers, just self sufficient basement dwellers with a functional wallet and a job.^^

eldrin.6471:

The people buying large amounts of gems are not and never will be the same people that can do raids.and by marginalizing the people who are the life blood of this game anet have committed economic suicide.

I’ll PM you this post of yours in 1 year with link to Anets financial results.

Raizen.7981:

ZERONIX.5873:

Let’s look at nearly every mmo out there raiding is what runs off the average player since new players must spend months and months getting geared to try to kill harder bosses to advance in game. Now we are seeing this in gw2 the same reason I left wow was lack of raiding group players you can’t depend on. Gw2 since heart of thorns attitude has changed it’s no longer fun to play with others. As I feared raiding plagues so many mmos with eliteism and then begans cursing in chat player arguments kicks destroyed friendships and so on it’s just a downward spiral. True a lot of these aren’t a nets fault but why antagonize these players to act in such a manner. I’ve always had issues with 10 man raid content since my normal online group of friends is 4-5 players picking up pugs always creates issues. Is this what the average players want in game though. raid content will be unreachable for new players so they will see as I saw in wow these set groups and guilds are created then no new players are accepted into them creating aurmour sand weapons that half the community can never get or have a chance at. getting. Gw2 has made a bed I’m not sure they want to sleep in they would have done far better to create 5 man content more challenging or make ascended aurmours easier to obtain for new players having over 1500 gold is required at this point just to began raiding. I’m all for challenging content but are they going about it the right way. You risk destroying the average player base let’s face it every player wants a chance at a legendary set should it only be able to those elite guilds and no one else. We have seen no new dungeons no new fractals no 2-5 man content at all in heart of thorns 90 percent of the pllayerbase does not have 10 people online to go . The main change has been a friendly mmo turning sour seemingly overnight . I just feel gw2 is taking a very dark turn.

Aside the fact that I might need some serious condi cleanse for the bleeding you’ve just inflicted onto my eyes, as any person who read the forums for 20 mins before posting(not you, obviously) knows that you need exotic armor, ascended trinkets(cost nothing) and ascended weapons(200g, not 1500). If you got 4-5 other friends, you can easily start your own raid and require whatever you want to require. No one is forcing you to do anything

If you don’t want to raid then don’t, whats the difference between now and before? Its just that Anet added raids. If you played GW before then continue doing what u did before and skip raids…

I can’t understand ur logic.

Also theres no point complaining about raids because your complaints is due to your own lack of competence to find a good party which has nothing to do with ANET.

It’s like your complaining that the average raider is a moron and too stupid to raid or you seem to always attract and find the terrible players in LFG.

If you are asking anet to address this then anet can only idiot proof the raid which means anyone can succeed any raid with any party and any players, then you’ll quit guildwars anyway because theres no challenge and a mindless grind instead breeding a gamer base of zombies.

As a random pve casual:
I don’t run dungeons any more.
I never liked fractals.
I was a raider in WoW a many years ago when I was much younger.
GW2 raids feel… like a joke. No story, no trash, no fun.
And I was playing this for fun.
I had high hopes for HoT, but it’s turned out to be a grind towards… what? I don’t even know.
Professions are so imbalanced… and AN seams to be so disconnected from the facts, it is just sad.
Any hope of improvements / balance is gone for me.

Raids wont destroy anything, these rant threads are trendy now, or what? Just stop it.

As far as im concerned the only people displeased with these raids are the same people who can’t clear em. For those of us who invested the hours, and by that I mean reworking of every single build in your raid composition (aka $$$$) well we’re not so angry about it.

If this raid was clear-able by everyone it wouldn’t be a raid, it would be another dungeon.

rogerwilko.6895:

GW2 raids feel… like a joke. No story, no trash, no fun.

Have you actually done the raid? It has fun events with tons of trash between the 1st and 2nd boss. Between 2nd and 3rd there’s also trash but there it’s not fun.

I feel like all professions are in demand except thief and to a lesser extent necro. That’s pretty good. And thief is kind of fine, mostly misunderstood.

as matter of fact many of the games which released as raiding game had to back off from it and added easy mode to their raiding yet alone gw2 which was advertised as non traditional game and first expansion brought traditional raiding similar to wow.
wild star had to remove/change almost all of their hard core stuff and go f2p just to survive and that game released as raiding game.
rift now has easy mode raiding while the signature feature of the game was hard core raiding but trion backed off from it and rift added easy mode.
wow added easy LFR long time ago.
these are games i played and i saw they have become much more casual friendly.
what made anet think this is good idea??

saye.9304:

as matter of fact many of the games which released as raiding game had to back off from it and added easy mode to their raiding yet alone gw2 which was advertised as non traditional game and first expansion brought traditional raiding similar to wow.
wild star had to remove/change almost all of their hard core stuff and go f2p just to survive and that game released as raiding game.
rift now has easy mode raiding while the signature feature of the game was hard core raiding but trion backed off from it and rift added easy mode.
wow added easy LFR long time ago.
these are games i played and i saw they have become much more casual friendly.
what made anet think this is good idea??

Think of gw2 raids as the easy mode raids. Gw2 raids are significantly easier than WoW raids. So instead of there not being an easy mode in gw2, think of it as there not being a hard mode. As for the whole wildstar having to go F2P cause it focused on raids, gw2 is NOT just focusing on raids. In addition, just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

saye.9304:

as matter of fact many of the games which released as raiding game had to back off from it and added easy mode to their raiding yet alone gw2 which was advertised as non traditional game and first expansion brought traditional raiding similar to wow.
wild star had to remove/change almost all of their hard core stuff and go f2p just to survive and that game released as raiding game.
rift now has easy mode raiding while the signature feature of the game was hard core raiding but trion backed off from it and rift added easy mode.
wow added easy LFR long time ago.
these are games i played and i saw they have become much more casual friendly.
what made anet think this is good idea??

Think of gw2 raids as the easy mode raids. Gw2 raids are significantly easier than WoW raids. So instead of there not being an easy mode in gw2, think of it as there not being a hard mode. As for the whole wildstar having to go F2P cause it focused on raids, gw2 is NOT just focusing on raids. In addition, just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids.

so gw2 raiding is harder than wow LFR i mean do you know if you die in easy wow raiding you will receive a buff that makes you stronger so you are telling me gw2 raiding is even easier?? you noticed i said wow LFR not wow mythic version.
wild star 40 man raid was one of the biggest mistake carbine made along with Attunement process, these were 2 major reasons along with some minor problem..WS removed or changed all that so yes WS failure was highly because of raiding.
gw2 raids are not easy for most casual players but difficulty is subjective, for raider gw2 raids might be easy for casual player who bought non traditional non raiding game more than 3 years ago it is difficult hence you see actually number of threads on the forum against raiding.
all those games added an actual easy mode where you can easily pug it i do not think gw2 raids are that easy to pug or they reduced the difficulty significantly all together.
anyways like i said these games were targeting raiders from lunch day and yet again they had to go much more casual friendly while gw2 lunched as casual game changed direction toward traditional raiding.
we have to wait for ncsoft financial report specially in 2016 to see whether the raiding was good idea or not.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

You are not barred from playing the game as long as

1. you meet the minimum system requirements of the game
2. you can operate the input devices of your system
3. you have a stable internet connection to handle the network weight of an MMO

I play with a lot of different types of people, some of which who are color blind, missing limbs, on psych meds, etc and I have seen many of these people progress through the raid at a healthy rate.

I don’t get how else you can make this more accessible, I honestly don’t, the first 3 points are basically mandatory for any game you play.

eldrin.6471:

The people buying large amounts of gems are not and never will be the same people that can do raids.and by marginalizing the people who are the life blood of this game anet have committed economic suicide.

I probably drop triple what you drop on gems, don’t even go there.

saye.9304:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

saye.9304:

as matter of fact many of the games which released as raiding game had to back off from it and added easy mode to their raiding yet alone gw2 which was advertised as non traditional game and first expansion brought traditional raiding similar to wow.
wild star had to remove/change almost all of their hard core stuff and go f2p just to survive and that game released as raiding game.
rift now has easy mode raiding while the signature feature of the game was hard core raiding but trion backed off from it and rift added easy mode.
wow added easy LFR long time ago.
these are games i played and i saw they have become much more casual friendly.
what made anet think this is good idea??

Think of gw2 raids as the easy mode raids. Gw2 raids are significantly easier than WoW raids. So instead of there not being an easy mode in gw2, think of it as there not being a hard mode. As for the whole wildstar having to go F2P cause it focused on raids, gw2 is NOT just focusing on raids. In addition, just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids.

so gw2 raiding is harder than wow LFR i mean do you know if you die in easy wow raiding you will receive a buff that makes you stronger so you are telling me gw2 raiding is even easier?? you noticed i said wow LFR not wow mythic version.
wild star 40 man raid was one of the biggest mistake carbine made along with Attunement process, these were 2 major reasons along with some minor problem..WS removed or changed all that so yes WS failure was highly because of raiding.
gw2 raids are not easy for most casual players but difficulty is subjective, for raider gw2 raids might be easy for casual player who bought non traditional non raiding game more than 3 years ago it is difficult hence you see actually number of threads on the forum against raiding.
all those games added an actual easy mode where you can easily pug it i do not think gw2 raids are that easy to pug or they reduced the difficulty significantly all together.
anyways like i said these games were targeting raiders from lunch day and yet again they had to go much more casual friendly while gw2 lunched as casual game changed direction toward traditional raiding.
we have to wait for ncsoft financial report specially in 2016 to see whether the raiding was good idea or not.

When I was saying gw2 raids are easier than WoW I was referring to the harder one, thus making gw2 raids easier in comparison, and thus a easier level. Easier lvl raids with significant drop in rewards wouldn’t be bad, but seeing as Anet already said no to different dungeon lvls I really don’t see them doing it. And like I said I don’t think it’s that big of a deal seeing as raids are pretty easy compared to some stuff provided by other games.

Also, I was just putting out the whole wildstar thing just in case, I’ve had a couple people say some funny stuff so I just wanted to shoot it down in case you jumped on that bandwagon seeing as you brought up wildstar. Anyhow, as to what you said about it, I’ll emphasis what I said: " just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids."

Your saying WS failed because of some choices made to raids, I was just saying WS didn’t fail because they were focused on raiding. Anyhow, all of this is irrelevant because of what I said before that, gw2 isn’t focusing all it’s resources on it, just wanted to get that out of the way cause I’ve had two similar cases in game that wanted easy mode raids ( which I agree would be nice ) but then derailed into WS failed because it focused so much on raids and so easy mode should be made available in gw2.

Guild Wars 1 Characters were made by:
- going into town and swapping around your build numbers
- armor capped out at certain stats
- armor was mostly a skin
- skills were everything, there were lots of them, and mostly everyone you met who was good did something you had never imagined quite that way (because there were so many skills
- focused on making a good story
- focused on great exploration and lore
- focused on PvP

Guild Wars 2
- had a good premise
- accidentally had awesome character and world development around Scarlet
- had focused on skin collection
- had focused on exploration
- had focused on WvW
- had focused on PvP
- failed to develop all of it
- allowed years of neglect on all of this create a momentum of entropy
- created powerful distrust within the community about the company for basically never getting on the forums
- cemented powerful distrust and now dislike by simply never flipping the “on switch” for things as simple as the Super Adventure Box after years of request
- concept art and presentation continues rival in-game content
- disregards consumer base
- behaves like an abusive deceitful parent

Raids?
Raids are wonderful idea.
Should raids be Guild Wars 2?
No.
What’s to do if you have already powered through Guild Wars 2 content because you’ve played any other MMO ever and thought you needed to do this or you wouldn’t be competitive / able to play?
Raids.
What’s to do if you don’t want to raid, bored with it right now, or your guild isn’t doing it just this very moment?
Nothing.

Did Heart of Thorns kill Guild Wars 2?
If it didn’t it’s surely trying.

Eirdyne.9843:

Guild Wars 1 Characters were made by:
- going into town and swapping around your build numbers
- armor capped out at certain stats
- armor was mostly a skin
- skills were everything, there were lots of them, and mostly everyone you met who was good did something you had never imagined quite that way (because there were so many skills
- focused on making a good story
- focused on great exploration and lore
- focused on PvP

Guild Wars 2
- had a good premise
- accidentally had awesome character and world development around Scarlet
- had focused on skin collection
- had focused on exploration
- had focused on WvW
- had focused on PvP
- failed to develop all of it
- allowed years of neglect on all of this create a momentum of entropy
- created powerful distrust within the community about the company for basically never getting on the forums
- cemented powerful distrust and now dislike by simply never flipping the “on switch” for things as simple as the Super Adventure Box after years of request
- concept art and presentation continues rival in-game content
- disregards consumer base
- behaves like an abusive deceitful parent

Raids?
Raids are wonderful idea.
Should raids be Guild Wars 2?
No.
What’s to do if you have already powered through Guild Wars 2 content because you’ve played any other MMO ever and thought you needed to do this or you wouldn’t be competitive / able to play?
Raids.
What’s to do if you don’t want to raid, bored with it right now, or your guild isn’t doing it just this very moment?
Nothing.

Did Heart of Thorns kill Guild Wars 2?
If it didn’t it’s surely trying.

Very nice summary…
As i wrote in another thread:
Just rework raids to guild missions, scaling from 10-150players…with different rewards, depending on the time the guild needed to finish the guild mission. People who want to play together, have nothing to do, except the same boring guild missions and spending money for guild hall inventory.
Let them achieve their goals together…let them grow by beating this content.
Raids in the current state force elitism and many guilds split because raid content always excludes a large amount of players.
I know players, who only play raids because of the reward…it´s not fun for them, but it´s the only carrot on a stick for them.
You can´t even experience the story, if you dont raid…and 99,9% of the time you cant even experience the story of the raids in your own pace. Talk to NPC? No, dont have time for it. Listen to this dialogue? No time…sorry…

Just a huge mess.
But hey…GW2 is now like every other mmo. Was something special from release till HoT…now it just feels like every other mmo.

While two modes would be nice, Anet has already said with dungeons they don’t like that idea, I really don’t think they will do that for raids.

World bosses and Meta-Events are EZ mode raids. The old scarlet event where you had 5 guys go in each lane – that was basically a raid test. So two modes would be repetitive.

The new raids are the equivalent of the ‘pro league’ in PvP – its to give the good PvE’s something to do. Think of it like a power rack in your gym. Not everyone is going use it – but its nice to have – and helps your gym attract the crossfit crowd.

Hume.2876:

While two modes would be nice, Anet has already said with dungeons they don’t like that idea, I really don’t think they will do that for raids.

World bosses and Meta-Events are EZ mode raids. The old scarlet event where you had 5 guys go in each lane – that was basically a raid test. So two modes would be repetitive.

The new raids are the equivalent of the ‘pro league’ in PvP – its to give the good PvE’s something to do. Think of it like a power rack in your gym. Not everyone is going use it – but its nice to have – and helps your gym attract the crossfit crowd.

I myself like how raids are difficulty wise. It’s what I’ve always wanted in gw2, but I think a easy mode with little to no rewards wouldn’t a bad idea either considering how the content is already there. It doesn’t really affect me either way, but I’m not against it, I don’t know if I’m really for it either.