Guild Wars 2

To have that we need to be able to unlock stat combinations, so we can quickly switch roles when forming parties, without having to carry inordinate amounts of gear in the inventory.

Unlock berserker exotic for greatsword for warriors, then soldier, all your warriors can make any level 80 exotic greatsword they equip into berserker or soldier.

For ascended, it’ll be account-wide instead profession wide.

Switching would not be possible during battle, but when making your team you can quickly make your character more tankier or more support, based on what you’ve unloked, without having to spend a little fortune in the trading post or without having to store countless gear all over the place.

Stat unlocks would make much easier having templates, and much less limiting requiring more defined roles in dungeons, as gearing for any additional role won’t mean having to eventually discard gear used in a previous role because you ran out of space even after getting all bag slots and bank slots, and even having mules keeping extra gear.

I can see your point in stat unlocks, but I am not sure how that would be handled in the game. I also think a bank space would work too. I for an example have two guardians, one is a DPS meditation guardian the other is a nomad mace shield guardian. This could also work in my opinion.

Welcome to the trashcan.

I’m not so sure that the stat swapping would be a positive thing difficulty wise.
I.E it would become ok we go nomad for this fight, then zerk, then sinister for this group, then givers for this boss and so on. So that you’re optimized for every fight.

I think part of the challenge should be making choices. I.E ok I’m going celestial for this dungeon, there’s one praticular fight I’m having an issue with so I will take a set of nomad gear too (sacrificing 6 or 13 slots depending) but I won’t have space if I have any more than that so I need to adapt my tactics.

In WP’s example it would be a moot point anyway since I believe one of the silver skulls was no trait/gear swapping.

Stat swapping is actually one of the limits of one of the skulls, i.e. whatever gear, utilities and traits you have equipped is what you’re stuck with for the remainder of the instance. I actually thought this might be one of my more favored “skulls” (along with the reduced out-of-combat healing) to the point that I don’t even think it should be a skull at all but instead a baseline feature of dungeons themselves.

Limiting your flexibility will then put more emphasis on preparation and planning for what you yourself may struggle with the most. Some might work fine without stun breakers, others might feel so inclined to keep condi cleanses while others might have a meaty build that can stand to take up more offensive utilities instead. And for those aces that go all zerk all the time and pile on as much offense as possible, there comes more risk (fundamentally) since you cannot simply put an invul in your line up when you need to or swap in a speed/movement weapon to skip over content easier. Of course, I say it’s more risk fundamentally because such a limit isn’t introduced to the content but instead to the gameplay mechanics. You’d still have to introduce more NPC variance.

As for people saying it’s not true difficulty because it’s just handicapping the player, that’s sort of the idea. Currently, the game has so many buffs and utilities that are extremely strong, there’s really no room to simply make the game “magically harder”. And galactic-age sci-fi AI isn’t really a viable answer either. Games and AI are still mostly in the age of ‘cheating’ to provide difficulty. They either can tell what inputs you have made while you’re doing it and exploit that or they just have abilities that trump yours. A good way to start ushering in more difficult content is to reign in some of what we’re capable of doing baseline such as quick rally, reflect, etc.

Taku.6352:

Welcome to the trashcan.

Yeah, I’m not sure I agree with the action of moving the thread to this board. No one on the Fractals&Dungeons forum seem to care about suggestions to dungeons, especially at this point, and those who are interested in suggestions won’t be looking at this page.

I am very much against being unable to change skills/trait. Nothing sucks more than thinking, “wow skill/trait X would be really great here” and then not having access to it. It would also remove the use of a lot of fun skills that are already niche, and force players towards ‘one size fits all’ builds and the feeling of staleness that goes with them. A lot of the fun I have in dungeons now is constantly switching things around so I always have what my group needs on hand, even if they don’t notice it or ask for it.

Oh, I enjoy swapping traits, utilities and what not too for the very same reason. That doesn’t quite mean that I think doing such should be possible in every game mode, especially if the goal is “tough” or “unforgiving”.

Try to look at it from a more broad perspective. Rather than looking at it as “oh, they’re taking stuff away from me and removing fun options for me”, look at it as “they are giving me a slim profile to plan my strategy through beforehand. My choices could be the difference between victory and defeat”. It’s why you can’t do it in PvP matches (you used to once upon a time) but now you must decide (without prior knowledge of who you’ll face, mind you!) and reap what your decision sows.

It’s not that we’re against changes, it’s that we don’t believe for a second that ANet cares to do anything. That and many changes suggested are more or less “make it more like pvp” or “make people not wear zerker exploit gear.” WP actually has suggestions that people in the dungeon subforum have made before. A Gambit system is exactly what dungeons need if they want a nice fix to keep them as viable fun content.

I’m not sure I completely agree with his system in that I don’t think it should be a strict progression needing all the baselines. Have them all open but a gold for having them all would be fine by me, but I could think of combinations of bronze and silver I’d like to do.

I mean sure we can have hard/difficult contents, but guess what. It gets old. Over time people will develop guides, new tactics will be made, new builds/skills/traits for encounters will be discovered, and at the end, it will be trivialized. Even consumables will be used to make the content easier, and then people will start posting videos/guides, trios, duos, solo, etc. And if the reward is underwhelming just like TA Aetherpath, then people won’t do it.

The problem lies in entitlement of GW2 community especially those on reddit. Any difficult content will be considered a form of elitism and reward based on skill will be seen as exclusion. Basically every single content has to be watered down to zerg level so that people who press 1 and people who actually take advantage of this majestic combat system get the same rewards.

WP is one of those players who fail to recognize that general population of GW2 does not want or like difficult contents, but want the same rewards. That is why everything is RNG, since luck has no factor in skills/contents. Anet has to do something to fix entitlement that flows deeply in general population of GW2 first before anything.

TheFamster.7806:

I mean sure we can have hard/difficult contents, but guess what. It gets old. Over time people will develop guides, new tactics will be made, new builds/skills/traits for encounters will be discovered, and at the end, it will be trivialized. Even consumables will be used to make the content easier, and then people will start posting videos/guides, trios, duos, solo, etc. And if the reward is underwhelming just like TA Aetherpath, then people won’t do it.

The problem lies in entitlement of GW2 community especially those on reddit. Any difficult content will be considered a form of elitism and reward based on skill will be seen as exclusion. Basically every single content has to be watered down to zerg level so that people who press 1 and people who actually take advantage of this majestic combat system get the same rewards.

WP is one of those players who fail to recognize that general population of GW2 does not want or like difficult contents, but want the same rewards. That is why everything is RNG, since luck has no factor in skills/contents. Anet has to do something to fix entitlement that flows deeply in general population of GW2 first before anything.

he is saying that the existence of these type of high end challenges can act as an inspiration for the average player to aim for, even if they never achieve it. i think it has some merit.

also since his plan is magic find and money, it really isnt exclusive rewards. Though personally i think it would need some other type of reward. Dont they already have rewards tied to specific content, like fractal weapons, and carapace armor and what not anyhow?

Build swapping isn’t allowed in pvp because counter-comping isn’t fun and it never ends when both sides start doing it. Fighting thinking players is a hell of a lot different than fighting AI, no matter how much some people would like it to be otherwise. They’re very different game modes and you can’t really draw comparisons between them.

These are great ideas that should be in the game! People arent forced to do these gambits (or skulls) and add a lot of dynamic to the game. This is something GW2 ha sbeen needing for a while and i would love to see this happen.

TheFamster.7806:

WP is one of those players who fail to recognize that general population of GW2 does not want or like difficult contents, but want the same rewards. That is why everything is RNG, since luck has no factor in skills/contents. Anet has to do something to fix entitlement that flows deeply in general population of GW2 first before anything.

Not trying to stroke his ego, but I’d say WP is very much more likely to be looking at the wide spectrum of things than you seem to be by jumping to conclusions and accusations rather than presenting actual informative or worthwhile suggestions. No one gets anywhere if all they decide to do is try to play counter cards and waggle the “most common denominator” card. It’s circular arguments that lead to the same dead end pointless answer of “there is no solution so do nothing”.

To sound less confrontational, WP often says that he’s speaking from opinion and his suggestions aren’t always complete or air-tight. It’s why people put ideas out there: to get the ball rolling, to get people brainstorming about things and get people to reflect (I mean, reeeeaaaaly analyze deep down) on what they thing is entertaining and what they’d like in the game. If you can do that much, it’s a lot easier to make compromises in ideas and implementation if the devs so wish to attempt it.

Still at it? Auuuauuuuuh… Auuuwoohwoohwoof, anet plz.
Eh, ok, it’s good to spend some times talking about the same ol’, same ol’. We all gotta do what we gotta do to keep ourselves entertained. Understandable.

You keep forgetting the Liadri incident. It bugs me. Why have people such short memory. This.. guy whatever… must’ve forgotten the wave of whining in this very forum and youtube.

Also, +1 to migraine-inducing with the evergreen topic “make other stats more useful”

Sins.4782:

Build swapping isn’t allowed in pvp because counter-comping isn’t fun and it never ends when both sides start doing it. Fighting thinking players is a hell of a lot different than fighting AI, no matter how much some people would like it to be otherwise. They’re very different game modes and you can’t really draw comparisons between them.

And that’s really just stating the obvious. But swapping utilities, traits and weapons within an instance could qualify as the very same thing if the devs had considered the action of doing so not intentional. Now don’t go jumping on that statement because I already know what you’d counter that with. The point is, it accomplishes the same thing in either modes of play but it’s even more powerful against scripted AI who will not change their build compositions. So does it or does it not offer a large advantage to the player over the AI? I’ll answer that with a resounding ‘YES, IT DOES!’. So playing around with that advantage can be an avenue of challenge or reward in certain instances…which is the original point.

deSade.9437:

Still at it? Auuuauuuuuh… Auuuwoohwoohwoof, anet plz.
Eh, ok, it’s good to spend some times talking about the same ol’, same ol’. We all gotta do what we gotta do to keep ourselves entertained. Understandable.

You keep forgetting the Liadri incident. It bugs me. Why have people such short memory. This.. guy whatever… must’ve forgotten the wave of whining in this very forum and youtube.

Also, +1 to migraine-inducing with the evergreen topic “make other stats more useful”

That’s the thing, like we’re a vocal minority promoting more challenging content, it’s also a vocal minority demonizing it. Back when I was a weaker gamer I enjoyed watching/learning from those ahead of me. I liked that there was a ton infront of me to experience as I got better. Look at what people watch on Twitch Channels. Are the most popular ones the people doing casual things like SW farming? Or are they the top tier PVPers or guys soloing Arah? Last I saw Purple Miku and Phantoma(sp?) were the top 2 on GW2 at the time FAR above the rest… and they’re both at that level that the average player will never achieve.

This idea that people just want to put their heads down and farm stuff to get loot is simply bullkitten spewed by a vocal persistent crowd of people who get kitten if they can’t do something. People with ego’s they can’t back up.

That’s not to say that GW2s main crowd isn’t more casual, but I really don’t think their main crowd dislikes the idea of better content. In fact I feel the opposite. Now if it became the main focus, yes we’d have a problem. But, throwing some in there spices up the game. It gives players something to push for, something to achieve. And the difference between a video game and a movie is that feeling right there. The sense of accomplishment. If the only accomplishment in the game is to get pretty skins through constant grinding… we’ll you’re going to push away players just as much and probably more than if you gave people something to actually give them a reason to improve.

“Better” content. What does itmean? Better designed? Harder? I don’t think they speak the same language.

Many said the marionette was well-designed, good and challenging… eh, guess it was decent, but it was also annoying. Not because of the content, but because of players – and since open world is the future, it’ll always be like this, no matter the content’s quality. People called it “too hard” and it still had a crazy high chance to fail after days. I was there, waiting for hours only to watch the event fail again and again. How? why? hell if I know. Where are all these people that want a challenge?

What I’m saying: people open their mouths and say stuff, but then they whine when they get what they thought they wanted. More stuff to be earned in game instead of gemstore updates, but then they complain because it’s harder, or grindier, or whatever than to simply press “purchase”. How to blame them.
The few actually wanting content? Sure plenty of them, but again… most will never even learn or master 3yo content. A player that still struggles in regular dungeons but wants “more”… can I even trust to see challenges for the few? Not w/o hardmode, and they said it’s not happening.

All of this falls to ashes the moment we stop and think, though. Dungeons are a thing of the past. Guild-instanced world bosses are, most likely, the future.
Or these fabled missions to get guild halls, which are gonna be some annoying kitten with 0 challenge for 5 people with a brain.

I still have a minuscule hope for fractals – which will be promptly crushed as soon as HoT gets released… as of now, it’s still there. A glimmer.

Do anet metrics show them their players want to improve and be challenged, and how? by how much? what is “challenge” to them? how can I take it seriously when I don’t know what “challenging” means to the majority? I need a kitten lexicon.
I can’t see, but it’s good to hear someone does. I guess. I don’t know, I don’t think I care much. I just want to occasionally do stuff with friends in this game, but if anet doesn’t want to do certain content I like, fine. I will find another mmo, sooner or later. Hopefully <.< having no luck atm.

Your pessimism isn’t wasted on me, you know I agree, just saying I think it was a good video, good suggestions, even noted upon why an upper level of content is good. But, we all know it’s not happening,.

Jerus.4350:

Your pessimism isn’t wasted on me, you know I agree, just saying I think it was a good video, good suggestions, even noted upon why an upper level of content is good. But, we all know it’s not happening,.

Too much pessimism. At least wait for HoT challenging content announcing :P

Though i understand why you’re all so pessimistic, i can’t resolve myself to be so.

Kordash.2197:

Too much pessimism. At least wait for HoT challenging content announcing :P

Though i understand why you’re all so pessimistic, i can’t resolve myself to be so.

I’m pretty sure “challenging content” now means the challenge is in organizing large groups of people (think VW or Tequatl) rather than challenging individual player skill.

This is much more casual friendly as they can still autoattack in any gear they wish while still feeling like it was “hard.”

The highest level of individual challenge would involve moving out of orange circles, and in moving into white areas.

TLDR: herding cats is what passes for challenging content in GW2 henceforth.

Well, if it’s another Three Headed Wurm, i’ll be happy with it. Best 4 months of co-leading the french community i’ve had, met tons of great people, and getting the firsts kills wasn’t that easy. Nowadays, it’s plain easy, but the content is old, so everyone got used to it.

Skulls? Could have just said “gambits.”

You choose your gambits and the more gambits the better the reward. Simple as that.

Yet, Anet chose the failed fractal level system where now everyone does the same 5 levels and the others are completely ignored. I’d love to see metrics on how many people do each fractal level. It’s probably pretty embarrassing.

All is vain.

Kordash.2197:

Well, if it’s another Three Headed Wurm, i’ll be happy with it. Best 4 months of co-leading the french community i’ve had, met tons of great people, and getting the firsts kills wasn’t that easy. Nowadays, it’s plain easy, but the content is old, so everyone got used to it.

The problem is that even though these world bosses like teq and such were difficult at first, it’s mainly because they required people to organize a very large amount of people. It had nothing to do with the skill level of players or using difficult strategies, but rather making sure everyone can be where they are supposed to be. Its comparable to pug zergs in wvw. This content will never be a real challenge because it doesn’t push the individual player much. I failed VW a few times the first week it came out yet never died or felt like it was hard.

I guess at the end of the day it depends on what you like. I don’t think it can be said that any open world content is a real challenge, maybe some require more organization than others, but I don’t think Anet can or will ever make open world content that requires as much effort as speedrunning dungeons, or challenging dungeon content from other games. It just wouldn’t work, which is why it’s discouraging that they aren’t pursuing hard instanced content. There is no real end goal when a game has no progression in terms of skill. That’s why in my opinion gw2s longevity rests on the devs to create more challenges for players.

Azure Prower.8701:

Wooden Potatoes. Complains that dungeons are too short. Yet proceeds to show himself using unintended exploits to skip almost every mob possible with a well organized group.

You are having Learn to read problems.

Nyx.7342:

Kordash.2197:

Well, if it’s another Three Headed Wurm, i’ll be happy with it. Best 4 months of co-leading the french community i’ve had, met tons of great people, and getting the firsts kills wasn’t that easy. Nowadays, it’s plain easy, but the content is old, so everyone got used to it.

The problem is that even though these world bosses like teq and such were difficult at first, it’s mainly because they required people to organize a very large amount of people. It had nothing to do with the skill level of players or using difficult strategies, but rather making sure everyone can be where they are supposed to be. Its comparable to pug zergs in wvw. This content will never be a real challenge because it doesn’t push the individual player much.

TT is indeed challenging for commanders. But the zerg following is not that challenged, i agree with this.

I would love to see more challenges raid/dungeon like, requiring more personnal challenge as a a member of a (large or small) team. Looking forward to HoT ^^

Exactly, more personal challenges where each individual makes a sizeable impact. Honestly though 10-15 man “raids” would be fantastic. Takes a bit off of the individual even going to that size, but well manageable. I just don’t want “challenge” to be “herding cats,” it’s not the fun I want.

Unless they implement an option to disable skill effects on bosses I can’t imagine 10-15man raids being fun.