Guild Wars 2

Suggestion

Add a new UI browser that will allow incomplete parties looking to enter a dungeon to advertise for more spots world-wide. These parties can/will consist of players world-wide, instead of being server based. Additionally, make dungeons similar to spvp servers, where players from different worlds can play in the same dungeon.

This browser would include information about what dungeon the party is aiming to enter and what type (story or explorable), the party size, as well as any other relevant information that can be used to sort or search (average party level, professions, etc).

What this accomplishes

Implementing this would make finding a dungeon group exponentially easier, and thus would increase dungeon activity among the playerbase. This lets players who are interested in running a certain dungeon find a group quickly, and groups trying to find just a few more people fill up effortlessly. By making dungeons world based, not server based, and having the browser be world-based, players should always be able to find a group no matter the time.

This also addresses groups trying to do less popular dungeons, such as SF or CoE, find enough people because, again the browser being world-based, there are bound to always be posts for those dungeons.

Additionally, this will also reduce the amount of spamming “lf2m xxx dungeon” in LA map chat.

Reasoning

I really like running dungeons, not just because it’s interesting content, but because it’s pretty much the only formal reason to form a party for PvE. However, many times when I want to play a specific dungeon or complete its story mode, no one wants to do it and I become stuck. It seems only the popular dungeons, like CoF, AC, and HotW are the only ones that you can get a party for without going excessively out of your way.

If I want to do SF story, or AC story, I go to the dungeon and find no one is there. So, I advertise in map chat for about 10 minutes, and get maybe 2 people if I’m lucky. Then, I head to LA, wait to get out of overflow, and then advertise in map chat for another 10-30 minutes just to get the remaining people. It’s doable, yes, but why does forming a party for less popular dungeons and story mode need to be so difficult?

If there was a world browser where I can just post my need for a party to do xxx dungeon in xxx mode, this issue would be solved. I can just post and be on my way, doing whatever while I eventually start getting party invites from people who want the same thing. Or, alternatively, I can just look in the browser list and find an existent group trying to do the same dungeon and join theirs.

This new feature would make party forming exponentially easier for team based PvE content and would make dungeons a lot more appealing to the average player. This also makes dungeon achievements (such as dungeon master) actually doable without having a core group of friends or a huge, active guild willing to do random dungeons.

I do realize that dungeon rewards are being worked on at the moment, but this is a feature that, in my opinion, would greatly improve the accessibility of the content, allow for more intense team-based content to be added, and increase the overall longevity of the game.

Arena-net, please consider this.

- Lokí

Additional Comments

Something definitely need to be done in this regard, if you don’t come up with a full guild group it’s very difficult to find people to group with. If you’re a solo player, it’s more or less impossible. I was happy with gw2 suppressing the trinity because it was definitely easing the group formation, but this problem kind of negates all the benefits. And i support the idea of a worldwide tool, so you can have people to group with at all times.

I don’t have a problem with finding people just by doing /map in Lion’s Arch/the zone where the dungeon is located.

I’d rather not have a tool to find people for me world-wide. It’ll just turn into World of Warcraft, which we all know had terrible dungeon systems.

Terrible dungeon system or terrible dungeon finder system?

Right, and the system we have here isn’t terrible? Spam map chat and hope to get lucky before the anti-spam filter mutes you?

Great plan, basically an alternative to spamming LA’s and the dungeon’s zone’s map chat, while also covering every zone where an interested player may be, instead of the 2 likely ones. I think it should be added in the “high-priority to-do list”.

Edit: I would advice against an auto-build group tool, just a tool where you can say “I am available and want these dungeons”, “We are looking for x more” etc. Essentially a catalog of potential, manual reqruits.

Reese.4183:

I was happy with gw2 suppressing the trinity because it was definitely easing the group formation, but this problem kind of negates all the benefits.

And Bingo was his name-o.

There could be a system like Phantasy Star Online’s, where you have a lobby that you can form or join parties in.
A single menu could show parties by dungeon and path category, parties could be open, passworded or have slots open for specific classes.

Mathog.3157:

Terrible dungeon system or terrible dungeon finder system?

Both.

The dungeons had to be kittendedly easy, so even the weakest link of a group couldn’t bring it down, because of the horrible system that wanted everyone to be able to find group members quickly, absolutely disregarding the skill of the player, or the ability to communicate. I’d rather not see dungeons being dumbed down more than they currently are.

What’s the difference between a PUG found through a dungeon finder, and a PUG found by spamming map chat? Oh that’s right. None.

Stop pretending WoW’s dungeon issues had anything to do with the finder rather than typical MMO fatigue.

Asagi.1405:

What’s the difference between a PUG found through a dungeon finder, and a PUG found by spamming map chat? Oh that’s right. None.

Stop pretending WoW’s dungeon issues had anything to do with the finder rather than typical MMO fatigue.

The difference between a pug found in the dungeon finder, and the pug found by spamming map chat is that I can select who I want to join my group. I cannot select that if there’s a tool, as no-one would use the map chat to find groups anymore.

If I can avoid foreigners who can’t understand a single word of english, then I shall do so. If the tool is implemented, I cannot do that.

That being said, I would totally be up for a tool that allowed for cross-server LFG chats.
I do not want a tool that generates a group for me though.

So yes, the dungeon issues had lots to do with the dungeon finder. In fact it all fell down as soon as it was implemented.

Please keep away with dungeon finder. I don’t want to sit in LA and use a tool that ports me to every dungeon in the world. This kind of thing has already killed at least one mmorpg.

ok people GW2 needs a dungeon finder that is world wide/cross sever. What it doesn’t need is the dungeon finder tool to make the group for you. We need something that lets everyone see you are LFG/LFM for a particular dungeon but leave the ability to invite to those forming the groups. Think GW1 LFG tool where you could see people in multiple districts and they have a comment by their name saying what they are LFG for except make it world wide/cross server. Not all servers have a strong PvE force

GW1 had a few interesting options that should be looked into when considering a dungeon finder – and frankly, what I would suggest is something along the lines of a catalog.

With the use of a hotkey(lets say X, its not the default for anything presently in game) you can bring up a Dungeon Gallery. This could show you your status with each of the available dungeons at present, which paths you have done, and the like – similar to your hero’s personal story from the H panel – and by flipping through the list of available dungeons you could also see the listings for people wanting to do this particular given dungeon/path of dungeon. You should be able to see such information as Number of members in party, level, and class. Add your name to the list by a simple button press. Very simple.

Rika.7249:

I don’t have a problem with finding people just by doing /map in Lion’s Arch/the zone where the dungeon is located.

I’d rather not have a tool to find people for me world-wide. It’ll just turn into World of Warcraft, which we all know had terrible dungeon systems.

So a tool to find dungeons will make the dungeons terrible? I don’t see the logic behind this except for the fact that world of warcraft did it and we all know everything WoW did is blasphemy and should never be spoken of.

Please try to keep this at least a little on topic.

To be clear, I am not suggesting an auto-party feature. That would hurt the game more than it would help, in my opinion. What I am suggesting is just a little UI feature where players or parties can post their situations in relation to entering a dungeon, and leave the rest to individual player incentive.

What I envision is a more advanced and organized UI window that is similar to the search feature in gw1, located in the lower section of the party window. The search feature was just a list of comments players can post explaining, briefly, what they wanted, indicated their party size, and what district they were currently in.

How I see this work in gw2 is giving a party an option to choose what dungeon they wish to do, what type, and have the option to post a brief comment that can specify what they want in more detail (ie. exp p2&3). Then, solo players can look through this list, see a post/party that meets their interests, and then right click that post to give a few options, such as whisper (the poster) and join. Joining a party would act exactly the same way it does now, giving the party the chance to accept or decline the player. Parties and party invites would stay exactly the same, this just makes finding these parties significantly easier.

That’s all I’m suggesting. It doesn’t seem like much, but this would allow dungeons, and potential future team-based content, to become accessible to everyone in the game.

BAMFZILLA.1850:

Rika.7249:

I don’t have a problem with finding people just by doing /map in Lion’s Arch/the zone where the dungeon is located.

I’d rather not have a tool to find people for me world-wide. It’ll just turn into World of Warcraft, which we all know had terrible dungeon systems.

So a tool to find dungeons will make the dungeons terrible? I don’t see the logic behind this except for the fact that world of warcraft did it and we all know everything WoW did is blasphemy and should never be spoken of.

Yes. The logic is explained further down, but ignorance is bliss, and who am I to judge you? O wait.

Asagi.1405:

What’s the difference between a PUG found through a dungeon finder, and a PUG found by spamming map chat? Oh that’s right. None.

Stop pretending WoW’s dungeon issues had anything to do with the finder rather than typical MMO fatigue.

Correct. Don’t be a LFG tool hater.

Keep in mind that, the easiest it is for developers to implement something we suggest, the more likely it is that it will be something possible to do.

We have a LFG interface in the game – press Y then look at the LFG tab. It’s rather useless, though – it doesn’t allow you to list what you are looking for. If that system was changed so we could use it to describe what we are looking for, and if we could see there already existing but incomplete groups, IMO it would make group making significantly easier. Making it exclusive to dungeons and world-wide (as in, working everywhere in an individual work – remember, cross world things are going to be hard since guesting isn’t really working right now, and we all remember the messes at the overflow servers) would make it significantly easier to find groups for dungeons without having to spam chat; in fact, it would be possible to play other areas of the game while waiting for more people to form a group.

CelticWish.2314:

Asagi.1405:

What’s the difference between a PUG found through a dungeon finder, and a PUG found by spamming map chat? Oh that’s right. None.

Stop pretending WoW’s dungeon issues had anything to do with the finder rather than typical MMO fatigue.

Correct. Don’t be a LFG tool hater.

I’ll be a LFG tool hater as much as I please.

Tool-generated groups are, as seen in all other games featuring the tool, the reason you get Donald in your group. Maybe a whole pack of Donalds! What are you to do about it? Nothing. If you leave, you’re punished for it. Try to kick him? Might get kicked yourself. Punished for that too.
“Hurr so make your own group lol”
With whom? The people who once used map-chat are now using the tool, because how else would they find a group? And why should I make a group myself when the game directly discourages that by shoving an unnecessary dungeon finding tool down my throat? It’s there. You find many more groups (quantity), but how many quality groups do you find? Seeing as the groups are just mushed together, chances are you will find at least one Donald. Maybe even 2. Or 3. The horror.

Donald gets groups because the tool lets him. It trusts his ability to do the dungeons with no evidence. You, the skilled player, will end in a group with him, and will suffer 2-hour runs with him.

Make LFG tools zone wide only and add more mini games in LA. Otherwise it will destroy dungeon communities.

I enjoy meeting the same people in my PuG dungeon runs more than new people that I don’t know.

Getting bad groups with the WoW LFG tool happened far less often than people like to claim. Sure, you sometimes got people who were completely clueless, but it happened relatively infrequently and it was easy enough to remove the person or find another group.

The “choosing you you take” angle is a bit disingenuous. Forming any PuG leaves you vulnerable to taking a random idiot along. You only truly protect yourself against this when you go with a group composed entirely of people you know.

That said, at this point, I don’t care if we get a LFG tool or something else. I just want something better than we have now.

@Rika

I like how you completely ignore the posts who are asking for a LFG tool that help people see who is LFG/LFM but still let the party decide who to invite, yet you down anyone throat who doesn’t specify how they want a LFG tool and just assume it is a WoW LFG tool clone. the WoW LFG tool is not a bad idea it is not what GW2 needs but GW2 still needs a better LFG system. Players who lack in a few areas such as low pve pop server, lower pop guild who don’t do dungeons often, or a player who plays off prime time will have trouble getting a dungeon group in an efficient manner and could be shouting in map for awhile.

Going back to GW1 I think I have a tweak on my earlier post on how GW2 should redo their LFG tool. It should only be zone wide how ever it could be cross server and include overflows. So just like in GW1 you would see:

Rika.7249:

I’ll be a LFG tool hater as much as I please.

Tool-generated groups are, as seen in all other games featuring the tool, the reason you get Donald in your group. Maybe a whole pack of Donalds! What are you to do about it? Nothing. If you leave, you’re punished for it. Try to kick him? Might get kicked yourself. Punished for that too.
“Hurr so make your own group lol”
With whom? The people who once used map-chat are now using the tool, because how else would they find a group? And why should I make a group myself when the game directly discourages that by shoving an unnecessary dungeon finding tool down my throat? It’s there. You find many more groups (quantity), but how many quality groups do you find? Seeing as the groups are just mushed together, chances are you will find at least one Donald. Maybe even 2. Or 3. The horror.

Donald gets groups because the tool lets him. It trusts his ability to do the dungeons with no evidence. You, the skilled player, will end in a group with him, and will suffer 2-hour runs with him.

What’s the difference between spamming map chat, player John see this, and asks to join your party, and player John seeing your post on this group finder and asks to join? In both situations, the party has the same power: they can accept or reject this player, they can talk to this player before accepting him through whispers or in party chat if they accept him. The ONLY difference between these two options is the level of convenience given.

It seems to me you don’t like this idea because you’d rather not play with a particular type of people. You don’t want someone who is inexperienced. Well, here’s a news flash: you always take that risk when forming a pug, no matter how it is formed.

So, again, I ask how a pug formed through map chat and a pug formed with a browser is different, especially in terms of quality? Because you can manually choose who you accept in map chat? You have to manually accept people through this browser too. You might get kicked if you try to kick someone you don’t like if you use this browser system? Guess what, this works the same way with map chat pugs. Oh, you’ll need to use this new feature if it gets implemented to find any party for any dungeon ever! Again, no. This feature will lessen the amount of map spams we see because it is no longer required to get a party, but it will not lower its effectiveness in forming one. People who aren’t thinking about doing a dungeon, but see a “lf1m CoF exp” will still become interested and try to join.

This system doesn’t affect those people, it affects the people who are looking for a group and can’t get one because there aren’t any people doing those dungeons and because they don’t have a group of people willing to help them. This system also makes it easier on groups because they won’t need to wait in town for 30 minutes spamming a message just to find the last person. It will go by quicker with this system, and they can be doing other things while they wait for their last player.

How is that a bad thing?

I agree with this sort of tool. I could not form a group for any dungeon that I wanted earlier tonight. A dungeon party tool is almost necessary for low pop servers like mine.

Loki.8793:

Additionally, make dungeons similar to spvp servers, where players from different worlds can play in the same dungeon.

I’m pretty sure the dungeons are already cross-world, considering I’ve grouped with friends on other worlds before. But unless you know people on other servers, that really isn’t too useful right now. The point is, the framework is there.

I didn’t realize dungeons were already world-based. That’s encouraging, because that means if anet really wanted to do something like this, it wouldn’t take much effort. I have high hopes for the future.

Loki.8793:

I didn’t realize dungeons were already world-based. That’s encouraging, because that means if anet really wanted to do something like this, it wouldn’t take much effort. I have high hopes for the future.

If you ever end up on overflow in LA and recruit for dungeons you can get people from other servers. My main dungeon group is based on SoS where I am on SoR(makes for good conversation when one of us decides to WvW)

I don’t know about you guys but I can tell you that I have experienced ups and downs with an automated LFG matchmaking system in MMOs that have utilized this feature, not just WoW.

For the few or so months that I have used such a system in most MMOs almost exclusively to run dungeons, I have experienced:

• Good groups
• Bad groups
• Quiet groups
• Talkative groups that talk about random stuff
• Groups who discuss strategies per encounter— more common in lower levels.
• Groups with easily angered players
• Groups who skip a lot of stuff— more common with max-level players
• Groups who kill a lot more stuff than the average group— “It’s good XP!”
• 4-of-5 guild groups that know their stuff
• 4-of-5 guild groups that don’t know squat
• Overgeared groups
• Undergeared groups
• Players who stick around to the very end of a longer-than-usual run
• Players who chicken out after one wipe
• And my personal favorite— Groups that want to attempt those almost-impossible achievements! “Kill Giganticus Lupicus while he has X stacks of armor and power? Heck ya!”

In other words, I would encounter a mix of skilled players and unskilled players. Sometimes we clear content. Sometimes we don’t. Sometimes, even players who are geared-to-the-teeth get sloppy while the average Joe Dungeonrunner learns the encounters quick. And quite honestly, I get a similar mix of players when running dungeons with players on my home server. It would be no different except your pool of players is substantially larger.

Since I’m almost always the tank for the group, I’m generally seen as a leader by default (unless I announce to the group that it would be my first time in the dungeon). It was either they keep me around or go back in queue for another 30 minutes or so. I could see how some tanks and healers could intentionally be bad just to grief and troll the group. In GW2’s case however, I can only see elitists doing this since there are no dedicated tanks and healers. Knowing me though, I have a tendency to stick with what I got. If someone else wants to boot the low-performing player, I let someone else call the vote. The only people I really boot out are those who just don’t like getting along with others, regardless of what gear or experience they have in the dungeon.

On the other hand, if I chain-run dungeons, there might be chances where I’ll end up with a person I have met before in a previous run. It actually happens! For those MMOs with game-wide friends lists instead of server-specific friends lists, I’ll add that particular player to my list so I can remember them somehow. I generally add people who I wouldn’t mind tagging along with in future runs while players (regardless of gear and achievements) who rage too much end up in my ignore list.

I can’t speak for everyone who enjoys using the dungeon finder quite religiously in other MMOs but I do like keeping in touch with other players and treat them like actual people instead of disposable members when crap hits the fan. I don’t believe DPS stands for Disposable Player Syndrome but I could see how it could mean that for some groups. For me, running with the dungeon finder has me realized that the community was much bigger than my guild, and way much bigger than my average sized server. I got to knew how people on other servers acted and learned about their own loot and marking rules. It was an unusual “culture shock” at first but it’s amazing how the dungeon runners of each server worked out.

With that said, I cannot see how such a feature alone can “destroy the community”. What I can see is a combination of many things that could do such. Take Blizzard’s implementation for example. The feature was very simple and easy to use. On paper, it could combine smaller server-based communities into larger clusters. It also allowed many players who don’t normally run dungeons to run them. However, this kind of attraction for the first-timers placed enough pressure on Blizzard to nerf the difficulty of dungeons to the absolute lowest denominator to the point that it turns into a chore for more experienced dungeon runners that run them “just for badges”. Some experienced players just didn’t want to deal with these “newbs” and either booted them out of their groups, or the experienced players themselves just wouldn’t bother. For elitist dungeon groups, their community was ruined. For the average Joe Dungeonrunner, their community has been enlightened and expanded. It also ruined some of the pre-established communities of individual servers by having their ideals clash with other servers. In WoW’s case, that’s years worth of building.

(CONTINUED)

In GW2’s case, however, the game is only two months old and people are still shifting around between servers on a constant basis. Honestly, I don’t think a server-wide community has been established in any server except for WvW guilds, the unofficial RP servers, and maybe the low-pop servers. That and we have yet to see any official World-specific sub-forums open up here on the official GW2 forum. Maybe some unofficial server forums exist but not many are aware of those. For instance, I know the unofficial Jade Quarry server forums have almost 2000 members, but who knows what percentage of the entire Jade Quarry population that number represents. Until then, there really isn’t any established server-wide community besides those exceptions. Meaning: a dungeon finder wouldn’t ruin a server-wide community because there really isn’t one in a general sense.

Back to the subject of improving the LFG features, the way I see it is this: if Anet would do unreasonable difficulty changes in addition to improving their LFG features (whether it is automatic matchmaking or simply making it easier to build groups), then that could ruin the community of hardcore dungeon runners. There needs to be a balance between offering content for both hardcore and casual players. Maybe all dungeons could have an official 80’s-only mode but who knows! With that said, I don’t assume PUGs are “uncoordinated and stupid.” As mentioned in the dev blogs, Explorable dungeons should be attempted with a coordinated group of people. That means a group of people who are are willing to communicate with each other to accomplish a common goal, regardless of whether the members were premade from one guild or a group consisting of members of various guilds. If you run with the same four friends on your side, I could see how it could be simple and boring for you because each of you know how to utilize your strengths and weaknesses to overcome a lot of things, thus the content becomes trivially easy; but if you run with four randoms, there might be a certain degree of excitement— you’ll never know who you’ll end up with! To me, I find excitement in running with random people, which could easily be achieved with those random matchmakers.

That aside, I could see technical issues why there is no Automated Dungeon Finder. First of all, there are no set roles— as in no dedicated tanks and healers. Instead, party members dynamically shift between damage, control, and support (or at least they should instead of shoehorning their build to fit only one of the three roles). In theory, one can easily find a group for a dungeon with just a simple “LFG” advertisement in chat, which would lessen the demand for a dungeon finder. After all, you’re not waiting on a healer or tank to log in. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case when choosing to run story modes or less popular dungeons as mentioned by threads declaring on the dungeon forums declaring such. In that case, searching for playings on other servers might be a suitable option.

(CONTINUED)

I believe a suitable compromise is to just simply improve the capabilities of the current LFG tool that’s in the game, which I’m aware Anet has plans for (versus implementing a Dungeon Finder). A dungeon finder would be nice, but I don’t see it happening any time soon— at least not yet anyway. First of all, not many people know the LFG tool actually exists and for those who do know about it, the tool is very archaic. Here are my specific suggestions for the tool:

• Easier Accessability: Instead of being buried somewhere in the contact list, it should be its own button on the top corner where all the other buttons are.
• Advanced Searching Tools: Just like finding an item on the Trading Post, there could be options that could be enabled or disabled so that one can find a suitable group.
• Cross-World Capable: This opens up the pool for available players and allows for players to search for members outside their server. Parties, Guilds, Friends Lists, and the Trading Post are already Cross-World. I see no reason why the LFG should not. I mean, last time I checked, certain dungeons weren’t being claimed by opposing worlds in WvW. At least not yet anyway.
• Cross-Zone Capable: This opens up the pool even more by allowing anyone in the world to see your request to form a group.
• Add Comments: A comment should be added so that people know why you want to group.
• Set Restrictions: Perhaps you only want to restrict members by World, level, and/or professions. Some groups might not want duplicate professions while others would welcome a 4-Warrior 1-Guardian group.
• Show Experience: Your achievements keep track which paths have been completed for a specific dungeon. This information could be displayed by those interested in running said dungeon. This could either be account-based or character-based.

In the end (and it bears repeating), the current LFG tool needs work! We’re in an age where this generation’s MMO players want something convenient and easy— a little convenience should come standard (but content should still be moderately challenging)! Spamming “LFG” and “LFM” in a populated city or in front of the dungeon portal is way too old school, and just doesn’t make sense anymore.

Tomorrow, I’ll draw up a few diagrams and mock-ups, but for now, hope you enjoyed my triple-wall of text.

Ari Kagura.9182:

I believe a suitable compromise is to just simply improve the capabilities of the current LFG tool that’s in the game, which I’m aware Anet has plans for (versus implementing a Dungeon Finder). A dungeon finder would be nice, but I don’t see it happening any time soon— at least not yet anyway. First of all, not many people know the LFG tool actually exists and for those who do know about it, the tool is very archaic. Here are my specific suggestions for the tool:

• Easier Accessability: Instead of being buried somewhere in the contact list, it should be its own button on the top corner where all the other buttons are.
• Advanced Searching Tools: Just like finding an item on the Trading Post, there could be options that could be enabled or disabled so that one can find a suitable group.
• Cross-World Capable: This opens up the pool for available players and allows for players to search for members outside their server. Parties, Guilds, Friends Lists, and the Trading Post are already Cross-World. I see no reason why the LFG should not. I mean, last time I checked, certain dungeons weren’t being claimed by opposing worlds in WvW. At least not yet anyway.
• Cross-Zone Capable: This opens up the pool even more by allowing anyone in the world to see your request to form a group.
• Add Comments: A comment should be added so that people know why you want to group.
• Set Restrictions: Perhaps you only want to restrict members by World, level, and/or professions. Some groups might not want duplicate professions while others would welcome a 4-Warrior 1-Guardian group.
• Show Experience: Your achievements keep track which paths have been completed for a specific dungeon. This information could be displayed by those interested in running said dungeon. This could either be account-based or character-based.

When looking over your suggestion, I have to ask “What’s the point?” As far as I know, dungeons are, currently, the only reason to form a 5 man group, server based or not. You can’t trade, you can’t do map completion, you can’t farm or do events together. Aside from dungeons, there really isn’t a reason to group with people from other servers if not just to talk while you do your thing. Unless anet makes more team-based content that isn’t a dungeon, there isn’t any reason to have a group finder instead of a simple dungeon finder, and so anything but that would just be excessively useless.

Now, I do, to some degree, see how a dungeon finder would lessen the hard-core players’ experience. But, when I think of a hard-core dungeon player, I only think of them as hard-core when they have a group of other hard-core dungeon runners. I’d argue there is no such thing as a solo hard-core dungeon runner. There may be times when a hard-core player won’t have his group and would try to form a pug, but server based or not, a pug is a pug, and you’ll also take a gamble with who you’re going to get. As I see it, the hard-core dungeon runners won’t really be affected.

The concern I have, as said in your first “wall-of-text”, is due to the increased accessibility of these dungeons, more casuals will run them. And with that, we’re bound to see a lot more complaints for difficulty around these dungeons. I’d like to think anet wouldn’t break under the pressure and lower the already low difficulty of these dungeons, but crazier things have happened before.

“What’s the point?”

Aside from dungeons, the only time I have been in non-dungeon groups is when I’m farming events in Orr and doing WvW. In WvW, party members could help each other mark individual Invaders and the sort. In PvE, some say it helps with loot drops, but I guess those are different subjects altogether. Besides that, there really isn’t anything meaningful to have a group outside of dungeons— you’re correct about that.

I also agree that you end up gambling when it comes to pugs. You’ll never know who you’ll end up with. The suggested party browser would only allow those to find pugs much easier than before. As with the hardcores, I guess my definition of hardcore is a bit more personal than as a collective group of individuals. In your case of groups of other hardcore dungeon runners, if they’re mostly the same, I think of them as a “static”, which a dungeon finder would less likely affect them. If anything, if a dungeon finder perform automatic porting of party members to the instance, then that would be the convenience for them.

I suppose Anet could bring back “Hard Mode” from GW1 where everything was scaled to max level, even the newbie zones, and some monsters would attack with new abilities; while “Normal Mode” would be where all the difficulty adjustments would be made for level-appropriate groups. I know when I used to play GW1, I played almost exclusively in Hard Mode when it was implemented. It was quite challenging and allowed me to experience previous content in a refreshing way.

We don’t want you to wait around to have fun.

I believe this is what one of the devs (no names cause my post might be edited) said during development, in reference to dungeons.

Too bad it takes me longer to find a group for certain dungeons than to actually complete them.

GW2 is not like every other MMO out there (as has been pointed out) the only real reason to group is for dungeons (and possibly karma farms). Pugs are always hit and miss and ideally dungeon groups would be found via a guild or via server mapchat.

There is no holy trinity so groups need to use co-operation and communication. LFG tools in every game I’ve played have only encouraged the opposite a real lack of communication and when they go cross server they become the pits in player attitudes. These tools breed laziness and intolerance and still ppl spam mapchat.

For the most part the GW2 community is a pleasant one when compared to other gaming communities that’s partly due to accountability and ANet not tolerating certain types of behaviours. So if ANet are planning a system it should not be like any other LFG system and absolutely not cross server hopefully they will get overflows working as intended and able to be used if you’re looking for group outside of your own server or want to group with friends on other servers.

Rika.7249:

I don’t have a problem with finding people just by doing /map in Lion’s Arch/the zone where the dungeon is located.

I’d rather not have a tool to find people for me world-wide. It’ll just turn into World of Warcraft, which we all know had terrible dungeon systems.

I am using this argument all the time to all the “nay-sayers” and they can never come up with a reasonable counter argument…

“What is forcing you to use it even if it is implemented?” – the answer is nothing.
“So why are you restricting someone else and enforcing your own opinion on others by preventing them from using it by protesting its implementation?” – really would love an answer to that other than “zomg in ruinz da comuhniteh”

Ravina Gray.4719:

GW2 is not like every other MMO out there (as has been pointed out) the only real reason to group is for dungeons (and possibly karma farms). Pugs are always hit and miss and ideally dungeon groups would be found via a guild or via server mapchat.

There is no holy trinity so groups need to use co-operation and communication. LFG tools in every game I’ve played have only encouraged the opposite a real lack of communication and when they go cross server they become the pits in player attitudes. These tools breed laziness and intolerance and still ppl spam mapchat.

For the most part the GW2 community is a pleasant one when compared to other gaming communities that’s partly due to accountability and ANet not tolerating certain types of behaviours. So if ANet are planning a system it should not be like any other LFG system and absolutely not cross server hopefully they will get overflows working as intended and able to be used if you’re looking for group outside of your own server or want to group with friends on other servers.

Dungeon groups can already be cross server, main group I run with are all on different servers we found each other though overflow/forums. I think once again people automatically think LFG/Dungeon finder tool == WoW’s LFG tool and that == bad. Well for starters it really isn’t as it has been stated to death not only in this thread but in the forums but that is besides the point. If you had really read most of the posts here you would have seen that players want something along the lines of GW1 LFG tool that would allow us to see a list of players LFG in a zone(can be cross server) and allow to have a small description what they are LFG for. This does not have to auto group everyone together but to help those seeking members to not have to spam /map and waste time because they current /map is low on players LFG for that particular dungeon.

Mato.1345:

“So why are you restricting someone else and enforcing your own opinion on others by preventing them from using it by protesting its implementation?” - really would love an answer to that other than “zomg in ruinz da comuhniteh”

I suspect the reason some people are so opposed to an automated system is that, in reality, most people WILL use such a system, so it will be very hard for people to form a group without using the system.

I was playing WoW when their LFG tool was implemented during LK (and I played until the Blizzcon of 2011 – let’s just say “Pandas? No thanks.”).

I simply do not remember any of the “destroying the community” people constantly talk about. At all.

My community was always my guild. We were not the BEST guild, but we were a raiding guild (at the time a 25 man raiding guild who got server 4th LK kill – not amazing, but we did it before the 1st nerf to that raid zone – the buff that was added).

At the time, Dalaran (on my server) chat was about 70% LFG spam. Either it was DPS looking for a group, or it was a full group looking for a tank (or sometimes a healer).

That was what was “lost” with the LFG tool. I was not sad to see it go.

As a raid healer at the time, I can also say that the addition of the LFG tool coupled with the addition of dual specs (not an issue here) probably kept me subscribed to that game for an extra 2 years. I was simply tired of either trying to do dailies as resto (shaman) or paying gold to swap specs 3 times a week, and was pretty much only logging in on raid days by the time the LFG tool and dual specs were added (sometime around Ulduar, if I remember correctly).

As it stands now, in GW2 I simply loathe going to Lion’s Arch. If that’s the “community” we’ll lose, I say great. LFG spam is NOT community. It’s true that before WoW added the LFG tool, as a healer I was known on my server as a competent healer and got quite a few random requests to do dungeons, and there was something nice about that. But it was not nice enough to keep the Dalaran /LFG spam at the expense of the ease of the LFG tool.

The big issue with WoW’s LFG tool is that, when it was added, many of the 5 mans were undertuned for how geared people were, so everything was already pretty faceroll easy (the ICC 5 mans were “hard” when they first showed up, but as people got geared, they became nearly as easy as the LK launch dungeons). So when Cata launched, most people were in for a surprise.

But I know I LFG’d those intro 5 mans and was raid-ready (most groups were NOT full off kitten-hats like so many claim) by the 1st of the year (like 2 weeks after hitting 85) as a resto. There were some guild-mates that did complain about how bad their PUG groups were, but when I’d party with them, suddenly I was LESS successful than with a true LFG PUG. Their LFG PUG groups weren’t the problem – they were.

The vast majority of the people I got in my LFG groups in WoW (until I stopped playing) were completely competent. And I was happy to be DOING CONTENT instead of spamming chat looking for a tank (and when I stopped playing WoW I had 3 geared healers and 1 geared tank, as well as offspec DPS geared for 2 of them, and a 5 man geared hunter – I simply loved doing dungeons because, well, it’s an MMO, and playing with other people is more fun than spamming LFG messages).

Flash forward to TOR, and it had no LFG tool. I left that game with a 50 tank and healer (juggernaut and sorcerer). No matter which toon I was on, it was so time consuming to find the other role. After WoW – the lack of an LFG tool (amongst many, MANY other things) simple made that game unfun to log into.

Modern MMOs with group content simply NEED a tool to get people together. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably longs for the days of needing a group simply to gain XP (a part of me misses that aspect of FFXI, but I also realize most people don’t like that type of game anymore). GW2 did a good thing aiming to get rid of the Trinity, but not including a cross-server LFG tool, IMO, is a step backwards.

GW2 even allows cross-server parties, but how do you meet people cross-server? A cross-server LFG tool seems like it would make GW2 better, simply because you have a very good way of making those random faceless PUGs no longer random (you can friend them and group), and you suddenly have a wider pool of people that can be your community.

• as a side note – I think the entire concept of separate servers is outdated. Just leveling alts shows how dead some zones already are in GW2. And this game is a LOT less fun in empty zones than in full zones. I read somewhere else, and I completely agree, that this game needs underflow zones – where low pop zones of multiple servers are merged.

@Bregah.7365

Sometimes, I wonder which “community” these naysayers talk about when the requests for improving the LFG system comes up (whether it’s just making the LFG system better, or introducing a Dungeon Finder that’s more common in modern MMOs); because I can tell you that my community wasn’t ruined with the introduction of the Dungeon Finder in WoW. Actually, it got a bit bigger because I got to expose myself to a variety of players of different styles and mentalities. I found it quite to be eye-opening. In WoW’s case, being able to party with these people again would be a rare occurrence; but in GW2 since friends lists are server-wide, you could always add good players to your friends list and ask to party with them again for future runs, regardless of what server they came from.

I could see a few communities feeling ruined, like those who have a huge amount of pride to be on the server they play on; but as far as GW2 is concerned, that sort of pride really belongs in WvW, not in a dungeon setting. I mean there are so many things in GW2 that are cross-server already such as: friends list, overflow shards, guild rosters, the trading post, the mail system, and even dungeon parties! That’s right! Dungeon parties! And with the inclusion of Guesting in a future update, the only reasons (besides WvW purposes) you would want to play on a specific server is because you just like the name or the lore behind that name. I know I picked Jade Quarry because of the connection it had with the Luxons back in GW1 Factions; that and my Ritualist wore Elite Luxon armor most of the time.

Besides that, I have mentioned previously that until ANet implements server-specific sub-forums, there really isn’t an official community dedicated to that particular server except in WvW.

Also: I have to wonder how many dungeons these naysayers have attempted when the Dungeon Finder was first implemented in WoW, because I can probably say I have done hundreds, maybe a thousand or so, runs with the Dungeon Finder and it feels like I have seen almost everything as far as the people goes.

Please implement a lfg tool. I’d rather do a bad dungeon run then stare at LA all day spamming map chat for a group. if not an lfg tool. Heck make a Tyria exploration society map where anyone(all servers probably with a room or overflow) can go in and find a group for a dungeon.

Yeah I think it’s a good idea to be able to put your name on a list of ‘looking for party for ’x’ dungeon’ where other people can see and invite you. Sounds cool!