Guild Wars 2

plz i begin you all, if your new to a dungeon and you wanna do it because you want enjoy all the contest, do what most of us do to no be useless and make the exp player waste time. USE YOU TUBE. is a free tips.

in YouTube you can find guide for every place in this game played from every class. build anything you need to know you find in YouTube. don’t jump to arah or FOTM thinking that you silence make you exp. i know when one of you have no catty Perry idea what the heaven is going on.

another free tips: IF YOU DON’T KNOW ASK, ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. DON’T jump over a fight or a place if you don’t know what to do. DPS is no everything in this game. people like me like to explain and help other when they are the enough smart to learn and ask about something. nobody born knowing.

sorry my bad english, im just frustrated because in a casual player, only have 3hs at day to play. its take sometime to form arah party or fotm and its sux when you have to quit and waste you time because others are too lazy to read a guide or watch a guide and log off at night without nothing and a nice repair bill.

Yes, let’s all watch youtube so we can learn how to do dungeons properly and not waste the valuable time of others.
Do you have any other ideas on how to suck the enjoyment out of this game?
My tip for newbies would be not to join you in a dungeon.

Using community resources is a bad thing now?

A newbie in a newbie group, running an exp dungeon for the first time in gw2 is a frustrating, tedious experience. Dugeons are heabily based on knowledge, not skill. Knowing each encounter, the animation, oneshot gimmicks, when you’ll need some specific skills (reflects, cond removal, stun breakers etc) and so on.

Once you possess that knowledge, and run with people who do as well, dungeons become mind bogglingly easy. It’s like playing cat mario (go play THAT if you never did )

While youtube is bad for spoilers and sucking out some fun, i’d still recommend it to newcomers due to that^. Having less fun and excitement >> no fun at all

Nothing wrong with using youtube, but the OP seems to want it to be a prerequisite for dungeon participation. For some people, discovery is the fun part. Making the mistakes and then figuring out how not to, is the fun part. A bit more fun than copying the moves and the builds from someone else on youtube surely?

Tip for first-timers: Prepare to get killed and don’t give up.

Was just yesterday doing Arah p2 with group of first-timers. Since the resources are there, I don’t feel like giving guidance unless needed (if some want to figure it out by themselves or just don’t want help).
However, after third wipe everyone left (one in ~2nd Silver-group, one in spider tunnel, one after that when everyone was running to random direction). Point is, we were progressing and we weren’t stuck. I was just about to give some tips and then they all go “we can’t do this we are all doomed bla bla bla”. I even messaged them and asked to come back, but no, they all just gave up.

SmudgerUK.4715:

Yes, let’s all watch youtube so we can learn how to do dungeons properly and not waste the valuable time of others.
Do you have any other ideas on how to suck the enjoyment out of this game?
My tip for newbies would be not to join you in a dungeon.

the bolded part made me lol.

For newbies, I would first recommend using gw2lfg. Though there are a lot of posts with people looking for exactly what they want in a group, i’ve found that generic “LFG” posts or “all classes welcome” tend to contain players that are willing to help, or don’t mind wiping once or twice.

I can agree with you on the “ask if you dont know” part, but suggesting to use youtube is just rude, if you dont have time or just dont want to spend more time in a dungeon you should look for “experienced” players, as you said, nobody was born knowing, and Im sure you died a lot on your first couple dungeon runs, while someone was having patience, and not exactly suggesting you to go watch youtube and get out of the way. Im no expert myself, but I like to teach the paths I know to newbs, and as long as they read what Im suggesting, I could say the extra time spent on a dun is 5 min per newb (except Arah, lol)

Experienced players and newbs both need to communicate.

If you’re a pro and don’t want to explain the dungeon as you go, note it in the lfg. There are pros for every dungeon that run with new people from the lfg site all the time, most are cool with explanations. In fact many pros like it. I personally like going with new people, at least sometimes there are surprises. Full pro runs are mechanical and fast.

If you are new to a dungeon just say it when you get in. As long as there wasn’t a prerequisite for NO NOOBZ!!!, then everyone is probably cool with it. Then they can warn about trouble ahead before you run straight into it.

I personally don’t care if everyone has watched YouTube vids. Just don’t try to fake like you know what’s going on, because that’s when things usually go wrong. Everyone assumes everyone knows the drill, then it turns out later someone doesn’t know what to do. Then it’s too late because you’re already knee deep.

A tip for newbie, after you done a story mode and happily proceed to explorable mode:

If you host a dungeon(start a dungeon by entering it before others), and dungeon is done, do not leave the party straight away. Wait for people to collect their chests, accept their rewards, then after you make sure everyone is out, you can leave.

Everyone will get kicked out, if you start the dungeon and leave the party. (or switch characters)

SmudgerUK.4715:

Nothing wrong with using youtube, but the OP seems to want it to be a prerequisite for dungeon participation. For some people, discovery is the fun part. Making the mistakes and then figuring out how not to, is the fun part. A bit more fun than copying the moves and the builds from someone else on youtube surely?

I think you need to re-read the OP. At no point does he say it should be a prerequisite; rather, he’s actually begging people new to dungeons to do it. He also says he’s more than willing to explain encounters to those willing to listen, but they have to speak up and give fair warning, not just run in guns blazin’.

For the record, that’s pretty much my stance, too. Granted, nothing can replace actually running an encounter for getting experience; but video guides are a great boon to the community. That being said, I have no qualms helping out first-timers in a dungeon or sharing strategies I know with people new to a given path. Barring weird situations where I don’t think I can properly convey a message with words, that help doesn’t amount to “go watch this video.” At the same time, before I stepped into Arah, I took it upon myself to watch the videos for the paths, because trying to jump head-first into the most difficult dungeon blindly seems rather fool-hardy.

Its kind of sad when players have to do homework in order to do a dungeon. Players should be able to learn it as they play it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Its kind of sad when players have to do homework in order to do a dungeon. Players should be able to learn it as they play it.

Players dont. Maybe not everyone is as smart as others, creating an inherent disadvantage no one could think of and help them get around with external additional help. Sounds like you might know some of them

There are different ways of learning, and different things work for people.
-watching a vid
-following step by step guides
(the boss does x, you do y. After that you do z)
-actually doing it (sometimes with trial and error)

That’s just 3 learning methods and there’s many more. Although it could sometimes help for a new player to watch a vid of the dungeon up front (which spoils the fun for me, so I don’t.) but sometimes it just won’t help.
I personally learn best through actually doing stuff, this is both in games, but also in real life. Showing me a vid or giving me a step by step tutorial will make my eyes glaze over a moment before I go do something else.

when you know how to face some encounters they become all about a mechanical execution…..

That is why is wrong to need to know what is about to happen in a game or lose….
Common VG design guidelines since 1990 or even before….when people were tired to have to memorize boss unreactable attack patterns that was considered “lazy design”.

For some reasons a game like demon souls did a step back of 15-20 years just adapting to new technology an old game (king’s field) and due to a generational change in gamers misunderstood it for “challenge” (its actually uber easy and boring once you know what to do but who cares in a game you play once or twice).

Despite it seems “challenging” lead to frustration by new players and boredom to old.
The first will die despite their skill, the other won t die at all because they know what to do.

TL:DR
Do anyone see the differences between Halo and dragon slayer?
One has an AI that adapt and leads every time to difficult strategies., the other is about memorizing command patterns by trial and errors.

LordByron.8369:

For some reasons a game like demon souls did a step back of 15-20 years just adapting to new technology an old game (king’s field) and due to a generational change in gamers misunderstood it for “challenge” (its actually uber easy and boring once you know what to do but who cares in a game you play once or twice).

That is a gross misunderstanding of the game mechanics of Demons Souls. Demons Souls does not rely on trial and error. And its combat system is deep and fair. All opponents in Demons Souls have very obvious tells, and when you die in Demons Souls you’ll never feel like it was an unfair death.

When a bridge in Demons Souls is littered with corpses, yet the source is nowhere to be found, you quickly learn that a dragon is right around the corner, and that your overconfidence was misplaced. You quickly learn that with careful preparation, all traps could have spotted before they surprised you.

It is true that Demons Souls becomes relatively easy once you understand the mechanics, but I wouldn’t say it becomes boring. The game is simply a bit unforgiving, much like Ninja Gaiden. That isn’t a step backward, but it is a call back to times when games used to be a bit relentless and challenge their players.

But Demons Souls’ strength comes not from it being hard, but from the moments when it is forgiving. The game has many checkpoints, and shortcuts that the player can unlock. It also doesn’t force players down a narrow path strategy wise, but instead leaves it all completely open. Anything goes in Demons Souls, and you are not expected to play fair.

The real difficulty from Demons Souls, comes from a steep learning curve at the start, a relatively user unfriendly stats-system, and enemies hitting hard if you fail to avoid their attacks. Once you overcome that, you become a better player, and the game becomes easier.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

LordByron.8369:

For some reasons a game like demon souls did a step back of 15-20 years just adapting to new technology an old game (king’s field) and due to a generational change in gamers misunderstood it for “challenge” (its actually uber easy and boring once you know what to do but who cares in a game you play once or twice).

That is a gross misunderstanding of the game mechanics of Demons Souls. Demons Souls does not rely on trial and error. And its combat system is deep and fair. All opponents in Demons Souls have very obvious tells, and when you die in Demons Souls you’ll never feel like it was an unfair death.

Deep? ._.
Do you even die after a couple hours you learn you just have to watch opponents SCRIPTED attack chain?

A-B-C-D- pause repeat
Attack at pause
Win the game and any following chapter with ease.

Complete lack of AI that is the common issue on both game.
Artificial difficulty on numbers (see get oneshot) is the same method.

PvP actually proved how silly that game was with ONLY one tactic XD abusing the rear attack and evades….

You know how they could fix the Whole game imho?
lowering mob/boss damage and introducing some sort of random situation…

Ex some traps OR adds OR different random skill available…..
That would lower frustration for newbies while the fights wouldn t be a mechanic execution for esperienced players.

that would also promote tatcic and skill diversity.

LordByron.8369:

opponents SCRIPTED attack chain?

Just letting you know.. it’s a game. Everything possible in a game is going to from it being scripted. Always.

AlietteFaye.7316:

LordByron.8369:

opponents SCRIPTED attack chain?

Just letting you know.. it’s a game. Everything possible in a game is going to from it being scripted. Always.

Just try to see how enemies plays at highest difficulty of halo3 (and following) and demons soul

I m a casual player…i finished demon/dark souls easily quitting half second run out of pure boredom….

try to use the same tactics over and over in halo3 campaign.

Its then that the distiction between AI and “scripted Attacks” were discussed by devs AND reviewers.

Now i can t expect a mmorpg to have an advanced AI.
But i expect the game to have something to made up for that (see randomizing fights somehow so every time you play the same boss is Always different AND challenging rather than frustrating OR boring).

Iures.2894:

I think you need to re-read the OP. At no point does he say it should be a prerequisite; rather, he’s actually begging people new to dungeons to do it. He also says he’s more than willing to explain encounters to those willing to listen, but they have to speak up and give fair warning, not just run in guns blazin’.

For the record, that’s pretty much my stance, too. Granted, nothing can replace actually running an encounter for getting experience; but video guides are a great boon to the community. That being said, I have no qualms helping out first-timers in a dungeon or sharing strategies I know with people new to a given path. Barring weird situations where I don’t think I can properly convey a message with words, that help doesn’t amount to “go watch this video.” At the same time, before I stepped into Arah, I took it upon myself to watch the videos for the paths, because trying to jump head-first into the most difficult dungeon blindly seems rather fool-hardy.

Actually, I think it’s you who might need to re-read the OP. The English, by his own admission isn’t brilliant but the message is quite clear. If you’re new to a dungeon and you’re too lazy to watch a guide then don’t waste his time, because if it all starts to fall apart during a run he’ll quit… he says it right here “… and its sux when you have to quit and waste you time because others are too lazy to read a guide or watch a guide …”
That, to me, is making it a prerequisite. A lot of people obviously do watch videos before entering a dungeon, but just as many don’t and they shouldn’t have to. It’s easy enough to ask before entering if everyone in the group has experience.

It’s no a pre-requisite if I remember is a tip.
-read guide
-watch video
-ask if don’t know Gladly to respond and help.

But don’t stay quiet and pretend nobody will realize you inexperience.

Can we be a less hipocrites and and admit we all wacth videos for builds, runes, farm methods and even puzzles? But why make a fuss when I say:
For the good of the party: learn some aspect of the dungeon you want to do.

Arah is no like COF1 that you can just pew pew you way. I repeat I’m casual and waste about 1-2 hr wiping in lupis because people don’t know what to do when you only have to watch a 10 min video and then contribute to you party.

Sorry if I sound elitist. But I remember my mon say: if you will do something no matter what do it right and perfect, “even if is waste you night in a game”.

:)

kikittener.9578:

It’s no a pre-requisite if I remember is a tip.
-read guide
-watch video
-ask if don’t know Gladly to respond and help.

But don’t stay quiet and pretend nobody will realize you inexperience.

Can we be a less hipocrites and and admit we all wacth videos for builds, runes, farm methods and even puzzles? But why make a fuss when I say:
For the good of the party: learn some aspect of the dungeon you want to do.

Arah is no like COF1 that you can just pew pew you way. I repeat I’m casual and waste about 1-2 hr wiping in lupis because people don’t know what to do when you only have to watch a 10 min video and then contribute to you party.

Sorry if I sound elitist. But I remember my mon say: if you will do something no matter what do it right and perfect, “even if is waste you night in a game”.

:)

Elitist is exactly how you sound. If you feel that people who don’t watch videos in advance of entering a dungeon are wasting your time, you should make a point of not going into dungeons with them. It would take less time for you to ask them if they know what they’re doing, than it would for them to watch the video.
You didn’t exactly say watch the video for the good of the party, it was more about not wasting your time. New players might not be aware that others would like them to know every inch of a dungeon like the back of their hands. They might be under the impression that they’re going in to have some fun and bugger the consequences of their inexperience.
Consequently, they don’t mention it because they’re not aware, that for some, it’s an issue.

SmudgerUK.4715:

Iures.2894:

I think you need to re-read the OP. At no point does he say it should be a prerequisite; rather, he’s actually begging people new to dungeons to do it. He also says he’s more than willing to explain encounters to those willing to listen, but they have to speak up and give fair warning, not just run in guns blazin’.

For the record, that’s pretty much my stance, too. Granted, nothing can replace actually running an encounter for getting experience; but video guides are a great boon to the community. That being said, I have no qualms helping out first-timers in a dungeon or sharing strategies I know with people new to a given path. Barring weird situations where I don’t think I can properly convey a message with words, that help doesn’t amount to “go watch this video.” At the same time, before I stepped into Arah, I took it upon myself to watch the videos for the paths, because trying to jump head-first into the most difficult dungeon blindly seems rather fool-hardy.

Actually, I think it’s you who might need to re-read the OP. The English, by his own admission isn’t brilliant but the message is quite clear. If you’re new to a dungeon and you’re too lazy to watch a guide then don’t waste his time, because if it all starts to fall apart during a run he’ll quit… he says it right here “… and its sux when you have to quit and waste you time because others are too lazy to read a guide or watch a guide …”
That, to me, is making it a prerequisite. A lot of people obviously do watch videos before entering a dungeon, but just as many don’t and they shouldn’t have to. It’s easy enough to ask before entering if everyone in the group has experience.

I like how you skipped entirely over this part of the OP:

people like me like to explain and help other when they are the enough smart to learn and ask about something. nobody born knowing.

The part you quoted, on the other hand, comes right after he mentions Arah and FotM. I could easily see either of those instances breaking after several frustrating hours if people don’t know the fights.

To me, the plain English of his message is “Please watch the videos. They were made for a reason. If you won’t do that, at least be honest and admit you don’t know the fights so I can help you instead of wasting my time.”

Iures.2894:

I like how you skipped entirely over this part of the OP:

people like me like to explain and help other when they are the enough smart to learn and ask about something. nobody born knowing.

The part you quoted, on the other hand, comes right after he mentions Arah and FotM. I could easily see either of those instances breaking after several frustrating hours if people don’t know the fights.

To me, the plain English of his message is “Please watch the videos. They were made for a reason. If you won’t do that, at least be honest and admit you don’t know the fights so I can help you instead of wasting my time.”

You’re right, I did skip over that part, it’s condescending.

It’s condescending now to say “I’ll help you if you admit you need help”? >_>

Iures.2894:

It’s condescending now to say “I’ll help you if you admit you need help”? >_>

No, it’s not, but that’s not what he said. You should read the words as he typed them, not as you’ve rearranged them in your head.

I usually just hope that if someone’s new:

1.) Let me know
2.) Ask for an explanation if you are lost/and/or dont know what to do.
3.) Made sure you have put appropriate gear on your character before joining. Craft an exo set, or buy, or go through karma vendors. Not hard and you are ensuring that you will have an easier time of things and not drag your team down.

That’s it really. I think people are scared to admit they are new because they think they will get kicked. That’s a horrible mentality for some groups to have and it leads to people just not asking for help when it’s needed which just leads to more problems.

Arranging the words I quoted into better English, it would be “People like me like to help others when they’re smart enough to learn and ask about something. Nobody was born knowing.”

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase, I’m not seeing that as condescending in the least. . .

Or you can just do what I did when I was new and just follow along.

Iures.2894:

Arranging the words I quoted into better English, it would be “People like me like to help others when they’re smart enough to learn and ask about something. Nobody was born knowing.”

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase, I’m not seeing that as condescending in the least. . .

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase it isn’t. So we’re in agreement, yes? It’s condescending.

SmudgerUK.4715:

Iures.2894:

Arranging the words I quoted into better English, it would be “People like me like to help others when they’re smart enough to learn and ask about something. Nobody was born knowing.”

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase, I’m not seeing that as condescending in the least. . .

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase it isn’t. So we’re in agreement, yes? It’s condescending.

Geez people will argue about anything on forums -.-

swiftpaw.6397:

Geez people will argue about anything on forums -.-

No we won’t.

SmudgerUK sorry for the misunderstand, for all the mean I dont pretend to be elitist. I just try to warning newbies about a easy way to get exp. but that night I was frustrated because my party rage quit at lupi because nobody wanted to listen what I have to say.

I myself before jump into one contest I search for some info and guide from people who have the good will to help others like who don’t have time to waste in wipe and running back to bosses.

Is a tip that I use since anarchy online, wow and even Eve.

Peace and sorry again for the misunderstand.

SmudgerUK.4715:

Iures.2894:

Arranging the words I quoted into better English, it would be “People like me like to help others when they’re smart enough to learn and ask about something. Nobody was born knowing.”

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase, I’m not seeing that as condescending in the least. . .

Aside from the “smart enough” phrase it isn’t. So we’re in agreement, yes? It’s condescending.

Oh, well in that case, I see where you’re coming from. :p

One thing I like to add is first impressions. If you are a newbie doing arah with a random pug and the first thing you do is jump into the sewers and bring up hoards of spiders to your team while they are probably afking waiting for other to enter the dungeon, those puggies are more likely to be more intolerant to you later into the run (assuming they don’t ragequit already LOL).

might be worth it to just go into the dungeon by yourself just run around (don’t need to fight mobs or anything if possible) and at least be familiar with the starting area.

LordByron.8369:

Deep? ._.
Do you even die after a couple hours you learn you just have to watch opponents SCRIPTED attack chain?

Enemies are supposed to have attack chains you can learn and memorize. But when I say that Demons Souls’ combat system is deep. What I mean, is the way stamina is balanced against weapon speed and damage. And not every weapon is as efficient in some environments as others. For example, slashing weapons actually have a distinct disadvantage in close corridors, because they literally hit the walls (very few games take this into account).

In Demons Souls you constantly have to manage your stamina, making sure that you have enough left to block attacks, and dodge out of the way. You can’t spam your way to victory. You have to watch for openings, anticipate combo’s (which are not always the same mind you). And while most of the common soldiers that you encounter are easily killed, the stronger armored opponents definitely have combos you have to watch out for. If you attack too soon, it could be all over in a blink of an eye.

LordByron.8369:

Complete lack of AI that is the common issue on both game.
Artificial difficulty on numbers (see get oneshot) is the same method.

Again a complete misunderstanding of the game. The AI in Demons Souls is really good! The path finding allows the enemies to even climb ladders to get to you, or jump down from higher ledges, sometimes really taking long routes to find you (GW2’s enemies can’t do this, so they go invulnerable). The combat ai, allows enemies to taking healing potions if they think you are giving them an opening to do so. And they will use shield breakers if you block too much and are too close to them.

LordByron.8369:

PvP actually proved how silly that game was with ONLY one tactic XD abusing the rear attack and evades….

Yes, the pvp is unbalanced. Avoid it, its not a fair fight.

One of the barriers to newbies admitting they are new to a dungeon is the widespread perception that pros are all awful and prone to kicking them if they come out of the closet.

Personally, I think suggesting youtubes and guides as a resource is perfectly fair. The dungeons are designed assuming the use of the internet to access information on dungeon mechanics. It’s a lot easier to access information these days than just a decade ago but obviously not a design decision everyone agrees with.

If players new to a dungeon want to complete it without using spoilers then they should specify that when looking for a group. Expecting someone in your group to explain what to do, or to carry you, is a little selfish. It’s not fair to players that do not have the time or want to take the time to do so.

Ruruuiye.8912:

Personally, I think suggesting youtubes and guides as a resource is perfectly fair. The dungeons are designed assuming the use of the internet to access information on dungeon mechanics. It’s a lot easier to access information these days than just a decade ago but obviously not a design decision everyone agrees with.

I strongly disagree with that kind of design. I think its sloppy design to assume some players will post a strategy on the wiki after a lot of trial and error, and then (without telling people what to do) expect them to watch that youtube video of someone who managed to do it.

Everything you need to know as a player, should be in the game itself. If you need to find out through trial and error, then that’s sloppy design. A fair challenge, is one that you can fail despite knowing exactly what is expected of you. An unfair challenge is one where you expect the player to figure it out by countless retries, or where you expect the player to be psychic.

If you are required to watch a youtube video, or read a guide, then that means the one who posted it didn’t have a guide or video to follow, and had to figure it out through trial and error. That’s bad design.

Ayrilana.1396:

If players new to a dungeon want to complete it without using spoilers then they should specify that when looking for a group. Expecting someone in your group to explain what to do, or to carry you, is a little selfish. It’s not fair to players that do not have the time or want to take the time to do so.

Your assumption here seems to be that players new to a dungeon and who haven’t studied it beforehand will somehow hinder progress or compromise the effectiveness of the group. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t, only time will tell. The only thing we know for certain before they enter the dungeon is that they want to go in and presumably, successfully get to the end.

New players almost certainly won’t be aware of the elitism that has crept into dungeon runs. It might just never occur to them that not stating their inexperience upfront will be an issue later on. It doesn’t mean they’re trying to conceal something or are expecting the other members in the group to carry them.

Experienced players who somehow imagine their time is more precious and don’t want to have newbies in their group are the ones who have the problem here, not the new players. The onus is on them to state what they want, not the new players who just want to do a dungeon.

watching video guide still isnt the same as play it, but can help for some tactic etc., and when ppl have in half dung explain what to do it is the same.

Folk.2093:

Or you can just do what I did when I was new and just follow along.

That doesn’t always work:

/recruits a team for CoF P3 using GW2LFG
“Hi everyone.”
/votes for path 3
“I’ll solo the north torch.”
/runs to north torch
/watches entire team “just follow along” to the north torch
/leads team back to the entrance
“Okay, this first section is a puzzle involving timing and coordination. We’ll need to split up and….”

i keep thinking, watching a guide to learn some aspect of one dungeon is also fun because you can see what you class can do and bring to the party to be helpful.

just now i was in 33 fractal whit a good team and this mesmer, he was good but in the etin boss he dint know he can use Arcane Thievery+Signet of Inspiration to steal hes boon and spread it to the whole party and make the fight easy and fastest.

i have to explain to him also that if he have Warden’s Feedback in trait he can make the harpies a easy cake whit focus. maybe he was running all this time doing hes own business and till now without problem but im sure from now he will be a better runner in harpies fractal.

where i learn the tips, from some video i saw of one dude running 50+ fractal because 10+ is no the same of 30+.