Guild Wars 2

…warrior running MF and constantly dying leaving us to pick up the slack. he died so much his armor broke and still wouldn’t repair. he fought the boss in his underwear and during fights, he transformed into the candy corn monster, for the MF buff.

Now me and my brother who were leading the group were very patient. we knew from the get go, as soon as he died from the first encounter, that he was running in MF but we were very patient up until the last boss. I hate being that elitist jerk that will ask you for you to link your gear. I’ve never done that.

Up until now.

Kick him, plain simple.
If that happens to me I’ll do that. Then again I usually play with irl friends or friends I made in game.

Yes, from now on no more playing nice. I was trying to be patient. Speaking very calmly and motivating the group, keeping the others from rage quiting.

That would be the last.

That’s not being elitist, that’s protecting your game experience from idiots.

You would have been morally justified in kicking him off at the start. Because, you’re not free to “run in MF armor because i can”, just because you didn’t ask your party if THEY agreed.

adobo.1749:

…warrior running MF and constantly dying leaving us to pick up the slack. he died so much his armor broke and still wouldn’t repair. he fought the boss in his underwear and during fights, he transformed into the candy corn monster, for the MF buff.

Now me and my brother who were leading the group were very patient. we knew from the get go, as soon as he died from the first encounter, that he was running in MF but we were very patient up until the last boss. I hate being that elitist jerk that will ask you for you to link your gear. I’ve never done that.

Up until now.

I don’t think magic find has much to do with this. The guys sounds like a total nub and shouldn’t been kicked once he refused to repair.

If magic find was so important to him you’d think he’d repair his gear. It doesn’t sound like you have any conclusive proof that he used magic find besides the fact that he died and used a food buff. People die in all sorts of gear. You should have just kicked him.

so it has begun, you’ve started to notice the bad players.

teh warrior you are describing, is an idiot player, first of all when the armor is broken, all bonuses are gone, including MF, so he just wasted his own time and money doing that.

second of all, the gear is not indicative of the player skills
i did AC, all 3 paths, with a rare magic find armor set, i was among the ones who died the least, i still managed to survived the lt pull when i failed to dodge it, and i did AC until i had enough tokens to get the GS, the scepter and the shield and a few extra tokens

now im doing CoE path 1, and i am among the ones who die the least to it, still with rare MF armor set, mainly because im updating my armor to the coe armor, which is kind of glass cannon armor… but anyway, we also have a guildie who has lvl 78 or less green gears, who dies frecuently, but, she does her best, and in the last run has improved a lot, and still has only upgraded a couple pieces of armor with the CoE tokens.

its all player skill.

bad players are still bad players, good players are still good players.

i agree. it is a very tricky situation. i kept my cool. i myself have run SE with mf with no problems together with non 80s in blues and greens.

so how do you weed them out?

mf sure is not to be blamed. but this whole mf ordeal makes noobs think they they have to run mf gear so as not be left behind. i have no problems with noobs. i will be glad to run them through any dungeon. but they have to spec willingly and not be expected to be carried. they have to try to be less of a liability.

so where does this leave us who are trying to approach this maturely?

my point is, from now on, i’m being forced to be the kitten that has to inspect gear first before inviting you to the group. which i haven’t done before.

Always have run in MF gear. No one ever complained to me before and I get the job done well.
My way of weeding noobs out. Run in guild. Only ppl who actually listen to commands are in my guild so it’s easy to bring a noob along to learn him the tricks.

he was just a noob, first try to explain him how the game works, if he still doesn’t liste, just kick him
problem solved

Not just MF, i hate it when people running glass cannon build and dies every time he gets hit, it’s the same with everyone, if you’re running with full dps gear at lease get the sense to re-trait to defense build so you can survive one hit.

Great so now you’ll have to link your armor in chat before starting a dungeon adn it’ll be gestapo style.

It’s time to remove MF from armor and give everyone a small boost to drops.

A ranged DPS glass cannon build might work in the hands of a skilled player, a melee glass cannon build certainly does not. Just wanted to point that out, because I think melees get punished much more in PvE than ranged damage dealers.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled. PUGing always come with dangers – but I find the most dangerous thing is a glass cannon stat allocation combined with berserker gear. Great for damage, but if a dungeon Vet sneezes on you, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Personally, I run with a mixed stat set for dungeons. I have about 15% MF without consumables, and spread the rest through a mix of toughness, power, and crit chance. I pretty much remove my +crit% in favor for MF%. I play a very mobile ranger as well, and know the mechanics of combat pretty well, so more often than not I am carrying a team of PUGs, or even my friends.

The truth of the matter is that even glass cannon builds can be possible in the hands of a highly skilled players who know exactly what to do. It all boils down to the player skill and their knowledge of the challenge at hand.

My personal approach to stats and skills are based around utility and an even spread. Min-maxing has it’s potential, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I am no help to my team lying dead on the ground, and team-play is more important than personal output, so as long as I can be up helping my team, I am valuable.

The fact is: MF gear is a hindrance any way you look at it. Sure there are varying degrees of hindrance, but you’re still substituting meaningful combat stats for greed.

it isn’t ideal. and i sure as hell don’t like the idea of being the elitist asking you to link your gear. i don’t hate noobs. it does sadden me because i do enjoy pugging. i enjoy doing SE despite multiple wipes. i’d even go as far as saying that it is fun sometimes. i run first timers through SE and i do enjoy teaching tricks that i’ve learned from other pugs i’ve ran with. it is such a great feeling to run a pug, wipe, regroup and discuss our next strategy, try it and succeed.

i might stay away from pugging in the meantime and try to think of a good and mature way to go about it. i sure would like to hear suggestions.

so far though all i could think of is typing this out in the invite:
MF gear welcome, but please link and bring a backup set. does not need to be exotic. keep in mind this is a pug and you can’t expect everyone to be decked out in which case, if the run doesn’t go smoothly, must adjust accordingly.

There are some ways to play with magic find that do not hinder you that much. Going FULL magic find is problematic but if you use omnomberry bars, a banner, and 5 pirate runes and 1 traveler’s/noble’s rune you should be fine if the rest of your gear has appropriate stats.

I use Knight gear and emerald jewelry, with the aforementioned rune sets. It gives 60% base magic find and with the consumable and banner and a magic find booster, you can get up to 150% magic find, almost capped. I find even running at 90% magic find just with runes and an omnomberry bar to be a significant increase in loot, while still keeping stats viable. Pirate runes are in fact handy because you can buff people around you with might.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled. PUGing always come with dangers – but I find the most dangerous thing is a glass cannon stat allocation combined with berserker gear. Great for damage, but if a dungeon Vet sneezes on you, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Personally, I run with a mixed stat set for dungeons. I have about 15% MF without consumables, and spread the rest through a mix of toughness, power, and crit chance. I pretty much remove my +crit% in favor for MF%. I play a very mobile ranger as well, and know the mechanics of combat pretty well, so more often than not I am carrying a team of PUGs, or even my friends.

The truth of the matter is that even glass cannon builds can be possible in the hands of a highly skilled players who know exactly what to do. It all boils down to the player skill and their knowledge of the challenge at hand.

My personal approach to stats and skills are based around utility and an even spread. Min-maxing has it’s potential, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I am no help to my team lying dead on the ground, and team-play is more important than personal output, so as long as I can be up helping my team, I am valuable.

There is a difference between glass cannon and mf in terms of what it brings to the party which you seem to not realize. MF is the major trait on MF armor, meaning you lose ~40% of combat stats.

If someone was a true glass cannon before (meaning they have no damage but throw out tons of dmg, hence the moniker) then they would be contributing to the damage of the group to help the group clear the dungeon faster. I calculated it for my warrior and just by losing the crit % alone, I lose 35.3% of my damage. That is not including the lower power you get as well since power is the major trait on berserker gear.

Wearing MF gear does not make you a glass cannon, it makes you a glass weight. Cannon would mean you would do more damage, mf gear provides no more damage then something like Knights armor, except you trade the ton of survivability from toughness.

What you fail to realize is dungeons are group oriented, meaning when one person is terrible the other 4 people have to do more work for the same output. By making an mf change to unique loot (again everyone knows mf worked in dungeons before, difference is no loot was unique and no one would wear it because if they wanted to farm they would do it solo in Orr) you give incentive to bad players to be even worse by wearing MF gear to try and get the new unique exotics that can’t be dropped anywhere else.

The argument that you can be good with mf gear might carry weight if there was a filter that let only good players wear it in PuGs. But that fact that every player can wear it, and most of the time they are already bad which makes them even worse, nullifies that argument. I consider myself a good player, and I would never wear MF even though I can carry a pug, simply because it is selfish, makes the entire group take longer/die more/makes it harder, and most real good players would rather clear dungeons in 15 minutes, then take 40% longer and clear it in 21 minutes.

I ran AC all, CoF1/2, CoE2 (because 1 is bugged now), and HotW1 last night with my dedicated group in 2 hours. We used omnomberry bars only (mainly for the % gold) and made 8 gold. I’m not complaining because it affects me, because I haven’t joined a PuG in weeks.

But this change overall is bad for the perception and health of dungeons from a casual/majority of players, it doesn’t affect guilds and dedicated groups but will drive away pubs. It personally doesn’t affect me but I still can’t sit here and read a bunch of bs on people trying to defend MF.

MF is a self-rewarding stat that is nothing but selfish and does not belong in content which is group oriented and requires the teamwork to complete.

The whole reason small group dungeons were supposedly created instead of large raiding is because the devs said that you have much more of an impact in small groups and what you do matters. MF directly conflicts with this and allows you to lose 40% of your combat stats to basically be selfish since you aren’t helping your group nearly enough.

As a dungeon designer I’m really disappointed that you can even defend this when trying to create challenging content for a group of 5 people.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled. PUGing always come with dangers – but I find the most dangerous thing is a glass cannon stat allocation combined with berserker gear. Great for damage, but if a dungeon Vet sneezes on you, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Personally, I run with a mixed stat set for dungeons. I have about 15% MF without consumables, and spread the rest through a mix of toughness, power, and crit chance. I pretty much remove my +crit% in favor for MF%. I play a very mobile ranger as well, and know the mechanics of combat pretty well, so more often than not I am carrying a team of PUGs, or even my friends.

The truth of the matter is that even glass cannon builds can be possible in the hands of a highly skilled players who know exactly what to do. It all boils down to the player skill and their knowledge of the challenge at hand.

My personal approach to stats and skills are based around utility and an even spread. Min-maxing has it’s potential, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I am no help to my team lying dead on the ground, and team-play is more important than personal output, so as long as I can be up helping my team, I am valuable.

i assume making mf a group based stat in dungeons is not an option?

personally, i don’t really care for mf and will probably never use it in any of my gear.. but i’d tolerate people in my dungeon group running mf if the entire party gets something out of it. the entire party has to carry the burden, after all.

The OP never verified that MF gear was even part of the equation. While I can see that MF gear could conceivably cause an issue, so could a glass cannon setup or poor trait/skill choices.

What everyone seems to ignore is that the prime issue is skill level, which you can not screen for. Why bother with gear checks, then? You could be elminating someone who actually knows what they’re doing.

OP, how many pugs have you run (where group members were not screened for gear) that went well? Was this instance a rare occurance by comparison? I think people tend to throw the baby out with the bath water as a result of one bad experioence.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled.

Always a hindrance you mean.

It doesn’t matter if you are the best player or the worst. Every single point of mf you take outside of food means you are less effective.

Every single point of mf you take is for only yourself.

This is always a hindrance in a group, because you are less effective then you could be no matter what. Bad players become worse, good players become worse, the entire group becomes worse for self gain. Unless you can ensure that every single party member gains the same benefit from mf.

Seriously, unique loot comes from chests, problem solved. It’s seriously so easy, I don’t get what’s hard to understand.

Debsylvania.7396:

The OP never verified that MF gear was even part of the equation. While I can see that MF gear could conceivably cause an issue, so could a glass cannon setup or poor trait/skill choices.

adobo.1749:

he fought the boss in his underwear and during fights, he transformed into the candy corn monster, for the MF buff.

Doesn’t that sound pretty obvious?

Glass cannon warrior is very possible in dungeons. I run with one daily on my guardian, I provide the tankiness (and aoe protection) while he provides massive 100b dps. Our clear times went way up since he switched to berserkers from knights, even in arah. Obviously isn’t as good for pugs.

I just really do not like MF as an equipment mechanic. When it’s not replacing stats on gear I think it’s fine, but when you have to choose a tradeoff of stats versus MF it’s a terrible system. You need MF to get good drops so that you can get the “good” gear… but why would you ever then wear that “good” gear when wearing it means now you’ll greatly reduce your loot? The only time I can think of is when you are doing WvW and loot isn’t the primary concern.

Move MF to an alternate advancement type setup rather than a stat replacement and it would be much better. Look at Diablo 3’s paragon system… not only does it give players an incentive to play beyond max level (which ArenaNet has already stated they want to do) but it’s a way to remove MF from gear but still make it relevant.

How about being able to trade skill points for permanent MF boosts, or having a way to imbue existing armor with extra MF without replacing stats (crafted item, karma item, gold item, or even a skill point item), or something similar? This gives players something to work toward (without making them more powerful/introducing power creep), it keeps MF relevant, and MF is no longer “that stat that makes you worse in exchange for being greedy”.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled. PUGing always come with dangers – but I find the most dangerous thing is a glass cannon stat allocation combined with berserker gear. Great for damage, but if a dungeon Vet sneezes on you, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Personally, I run with a mixed stat set for dungeons. I have about 15% MF without consumables, and spread the rest through a mix of toughness, power, and crit chance. I pretty much remove my +crit% in favor for MF%. I play a very mobile ranger as well, and know the mechanics of combat pretty well, so more often than not I am carrying a team of PUGs, or even my friends.

The truth of the matter is that even glass cannon builds can be possible in the hands of a highly skilled players who know exactly what to do. It all boils down to the player skill and their knowledge of the challenge at hand.

My personal approach to stats and skills are based around utility and an even spread. Min-maxing has it’s potential, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I am no help to my team lying dead on the ground, and team-play is more important than personal output, so as long as I can be up helping my team, I am valuable.

The problem is, you added an INCENTIVE for a player to make your team worse, why make it worse for PUGS we know they are worse than premades already but you made it even more worse. And without an inspect how are we to know when even a premade group might have someone thinking “Oh Anet made this easy for me to be greedy and just go magic find, my team will just think i’m in a squishy build, they can’t see my damage or my gear!”

Someone dieing all the time isn’t due to their gear unless it’s significantly below level.

If you prefer someone to not wear a certain type of gear then ask them to switch and if they don’t vote for kick. Very easy.

Just wanted to say I play a glass cannon double axe warrior (11.5k evis crits are so lovely) in our dungeons, and don’t go to down state all that often unless it’s something any melee would fall to, like the champ orrian spider and her multiple insta-down poison circles. Lol. It’s all about where you stand and dodging effectively.

Sounds like the op just got into a group with a baddie. Sorry that happened to you, I would’ve kicked them if they wanted to fight in their underwear and we needed their contribution. (for ex, stargazer you can fight in your underwear) The only other times you get nekkid are the torture traps of laser beams and rolling fire boulders and floor traps and bees and… xD Love some of those explore modes; no sarcasm. Much squealing and hollering is done over vent. Haha

Lets make a post about one bad player and blame it on the increased loot from dungeons, because having a bad player in a dungeon has never hapenned before the update!

Krosan.2890:

Lets make a post about one bad player and blame it on the increased loot from dungeons, because having a bad player in a dungeon has never hapenned before the update!

We blame MF, which is a stupid attribute.

There are three different issues at play here, and some people are getting them a bit confused – magic find gear, glass cannons and the initial example of a clueless player.

Magic find trades off some of the stat points on your gear for better loot – so yes, technically wearing it makes a character weaker. However, this is not a cutting-edge progression raid in That Other Game. I’ve yet to see any dungeon encounter that is designed as a gear check, and the way that GW2 combat works makes being able to play competently (by using interrupts, not standing in red circles, watching out for conditions etc) MUCH more important than the stats on your gear. MF gear isn’t optimal stats-wise from your group’s point of view, but being an optimal player is more important than optimal gear. My personal poiont of view – loading your gear down with tons of MF is a selfish act but it’s not worth kicking someone from a group, especially if that’s their normal PVE farming set and they don’t have a full second set of gear. Acting like a gear fascist in a game that really doesn’t require it by design is far more jerklike behaviour.

Glass cannon refers to a build that is all offence, no defence. It’s popular for DPS classes in other games because its optimised for their role. In GW2 its possible to be a glass cannon but you have to work harder at staying alive compared to a more balanced build. If you’re good enough at doing that, a glass cannon is a useful group member. If you aren’t good enough, you’re a dead weight on the party, literally, because you do no DPS when you’re dead (or downed, or running back). It can be a valid choice, but use with care.

Clueless player is clueless player – as stated above, any problems with his gear pales into insignificance compared to being unable to play the character effectively. I do my best to be patient with those who are new to the game or dungeon and still learning, or not as nimble-fingered, or just not as hot at gaming as others around them. My patence evaporates if it becomes clear that the guy isn’t pulling his weight because he just doesn’t care or he thinks it’s funny to get others to pull his weight.

TL;DR summary for the Internet generation – it’s not the gear, it’s the player.

xvalkyrie.6742:

Just wanted to say I play a glass cannon double axe warrior (11.5k evis crits are so lovely) in our dungeons, and don’t go to down state all that often unless it’s something any melee would fall to, like the champ orrian spider and her multiple insta-down poison circles. Lol. It’s all about where you stand and dodging effectively.

Sounds like the op just got into a group with a baddie. Sorry that happened to you, I would’ve kicked them if they wanted to fight in their underwear and we needed their contribution. (for ex, stargazer you can fight in your underwear) The only other times you get nekkid are the torture traps of laser beams and rolling fire boulders and floor traps and bees and… xD Love some of those explore modes; no sarcasm. Much squealing and hollering is done over vent. Haha

Now imagine that warrior wearing MF gear and now doing 7k crits instead.

Also you should tell your warrior axe/mace is way better for dungeons then axe/axe.

Axe offhand = 1 useless skill and one skill that does less damage then auto attack which is really only good for procs/adrenaline and axe/mace build you already have max adrenaline before Evisc is backup.

Mace offhand = vulnerability for 10 seconds which helps your entire group do more damage and an interrupt that can also remove defiant stacks which is hugely valuable if you are running a dedicated dungeon group which it sounds like you are.

MF is terrible, both in concept and design. The fact that the developers of gw2 not only put it in the game, but continue to believe that it’s a good idea really shows what kind of people they are.

They are not the kinds of people who will make a great mmo.

Tremayne.6734:

snip

TL;DR summary for the Internet generation – it’s not the gear, it’s the player.

Totally agree! I mean, greens have lower stats then rares they have lower stats then exotic. So are we to not have people in greens because stat wise they are not as effective as exotic wearers? Where does the discrimination stop!

Magic Find is a ridiculous stat in my opinion because it doesn’t make rare items any rarer, but simply prevents us from enjoying our favorite armor and builds when we are forced into it for efficient farming and loot.

Strifey.7215:

Now imagine that warrior wearing MF gear and now doing 7k crits instead.

Also you should tell your warrior axe/mace is way better for dungeons then axe/axe.

Axe offhand = 1 useless skill and one skill that does less damage then auto attack which is really only good for procs/adrenaline and axe/mace build you already have max adrenaline before Evisc is backup.

Mace offhand = vulnerability for 10 seconds which helps your entire group do more damage and an interrupt that can also remove defiant stacks which is hugely valuable if you are running a dedicated dungeon group which it sounds like you are.

Yes, we do run a pretty dedicated group, it’s nice for progression. I also spend some time teaching guildies explore paths, arah being this week’s choice. 2 down, 2 to go.

I would say I agree with you that vulnerability is a great condition to keep up on a mob/boss, same with weakness, and I used to run a hammer spec for that purpose. But I find that whirling axe, especially with quickness, is a lot more helpful for paths with large trash packs, since I can hit all of them for upwards of 6k each if they don’t run away from me, so that’s why I run double axe. (besides, using On My Mark! makes up for it if we really need more vuln on a boss) My swap is whatever I need for the fight, I carry around my gs, hammer, lb, rifle, sword and horn, and hot swap traits when I need to.

But I agree that you need both competent people who know their profession and are in good gear to support their trait spec. Even if a person is in mf gear and only critting for 7k, they’re still doing more damage than a support guardian who crits for maybe 3k. Numbers are nice if you’re trying to be damage, but the overall health of the group is more important. If you can kill things quick enough, not wipe, and make it to the end, I’d say the composition was successful. For the op, if their warrior was broken and in underwear, I’d imagine he strung out fights by being dead, or worse caused wipes. Like I said before, he would’ve gotten the boot from me. Lol. If you don’t die every fight, get us killed, or slow us down, you’re ok in my book.

I believe the concept of magic find should be reworked or just completely abolished. I have a MF gear out of need/desire for good drops and am generally competent in dungeons, HOWEVER, I could be so much better if I could feasibly ditch the gear. I don’t always have access to Guild MF banners/food/etc, and runes are an easy choice.

Why should the people on teams with the least overall stats, when playing at the same level as those with no MF, be the ones that receive more loot? I understand the concept that it’s harder on those people who give up stats, but they are also making it harder on EVERYONE in the group and contributing significantly less to damage output.

How about instead of MF affecting dungeons, we make it something smarter based on damage, enemies tagged, speed killing, searching the dungeon, etc? Instead of better drops due to MF, give better drops that are hidden or difficult to obtain using sub-goals? Take cues from pen and paper RPGS and give us rewards for exploring the beautiful and awesome dungeon areas you’ve crafted. Why not have resource nodes in dungeons to find rare treats?

This rewards BETTER gameplay instead of nerf’d stats, and give the player a sense of earning the higher rewards.

Until then, I’m in Full Noble Rune set and hoping my Krytan Warhound makes up for the difference (It doesn’t, but it’s cute.)

adobo.1749:

…fought the boss in his underwear and during fights, he transformed into the candy corn monster, for the MF buff.

…fell out of my chair laughing…

I disagree with a lot of people who think MF% should be removed from the game. I just think Anet should be petitioned to Universally change the Stats on all MF gear to remove all the Y.O.L.O. implications from it that just make it GlassCannon Zerg Zerker’s EZ-farm gear. Currently both versions are:

Major Attrib: MF% / MF%
Minor Atrtib: Power / Power
Minor Atrtib: Condition / Precision

When it should have been:

Major Atrtib: Vitality / Vitality
Minor Attrib: MF% / MF%
Minor Atrtib: Toughness / Healing

.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

you’re gonna have a bad time.

only Stumme is allowed to go there.

Strifey.7215:

As a dungeon designer I’m really disappointed that you can even defend this when trying to create challenging content for a group of 5 people.

Funny. I can draw some parallel from Eve Online for this situation. In Eve Online, CCP the developers kept some systems deliberately flawed that would give corps (guilds) less control over communal storage spaces to “encourage” corp thieves—even other parts the game clearly show that such mechanism exist.

Never I could imagine ANet is encouraging this kind of behavior in a game that supposed to foster cooperation than creating artificial means to backstab teammates.

To be honest, I am not very particular about people with magic find. They can streak through the entire dungeon for all I care… AS LONG AS they can carry their own weight.

That being said, it is a fact that Magic Find is a selfish attribute that contributes nothing to the group progressing through the dungeon. A person wearing MF gear is basically sacrificing personal effectiveness (and therefore group effectiveness) for personal gains. And I understand that there are some instances that wearing MF gear can in fact hamper certain gamers from “carrying” themselves.

That player was awful. Nothing to do with MF.

Krulz.6245:

Kick him, plain simple.
If that happens to me I’ll do that. Then again I usually play with irl friends or friends I made in game.

The problem is in the system, not in the players exploiting the system to their full benefit.
They shouldn’t be doing that – but when the system tells them to do so due to how badly-imagined it is, it’s hard to justify not doing so.

Magic Find is a huge problem. Restrict it to food/temp buffs, or turn it into a thing that your equipment “Levels Up” to gain as you use it.

Soki, the thing is, the OP couldn’t have known the person was in MF gear or not unless he asked. So people are saying don’t blame MF when MF might not have been the reason.

Xolo.3580:

A ranged DPS glass cannon build might work in the hands of a skilled player, a melee glass cannon build certainly does not. Just wanted to point that out, because I think melees get punished much more in PvE than ranged damage dealers.

They do, didn’t you hear? Everyone in this is supposed to be either maxed out tank, or ranged :P

Really even I with a rather even spread of DPS and tankyness on a warrior get downed more often then not even after avioding most of the damage i.e. dodging blocks etc. pretty tough to be melee in this game and have fun doing it.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Soki, the thing is, the OP couldn’t have known the person was in MF gear or not unless he asked. So people are saying don’t blame MF when MF might not have been the reason.

The way you responded doesn’t even make sense with what I said.
MF, as a system, is to blame for this kind of thing.

Never understood why people run MF gear in dugeons in the first place.

Hello?
Orr’s knocking?
Hello?
More money made per hour is also knocking?
Hello?

lol But that’s just me

Tremayne.6734:

MF gear isn’t optimal stats-wise from your group’s point of view, but being an optimal player is more important than optimal gear.

And yet an optimal player with optimal gear will be better than an optimal player with sub-optimal gear.

cerulean moth.2743:

Why should the people on teams with the least overall stats, when playing at the same level as those with no MF, be the ones that receive more loot?

This is probably the best one-sentence argument I’ve heard for why MF should be eliminated.

Scutilla.3072:

Tremayne.6734:

MF gear isn’t optimal stats-wise from your group’s point of view, but being an optimal player is more important than optimal gear.

And yet an optimal player with optimal gear will be better than an optimal player with sub-optimal gear.

I didn’t say it wasn’t However, there’s optimal (the very best) and then there’s sufficient, and they are rarely the same thing.

The optimal team of people for me to work with in my job in real life would all be highly motivated, intelligent, creative industry veterans with no pesky families or outside commitments to get in the way of their availability to work. Unfortunately I have to work with human beings – some of whom are inexperienced, some of whom do OK at set tasks but lack initiative, and some of whom need a bit of supervision to encourage them to get on with the job at hand.

Likewise, when you put together a dungeon group you may find some are wearing magic find gear, or rares/greens instead of exotics, or are a bit slow on dodging. It’s OK. the game isn’t balanced around perfection. You can complete the dungeon as long as the people with you come up to a reasonable standard – that’s REASONABLE, not OPTIMAL. Insisting on optimal when it’s not required will just give yourself an ulcer and delay actually getting underway. It also smacks of a “all those scrubs should be perfect like me” attitude which doesn’t make anyone any friends.

so can we get MF out of the game?

MF shouldn’t even be in this game tbh half the time I noticed a player dying or barely doing damage I ask what gear they are rolling with and they link me MF gear it just handicaps the group