Guild Wars 2

I put this here because i don’t see this issue as class balance issue but rather issue about that how dungeons are build.

So pretty much everyone knows that rangers, thiefs, necromancers and engineers are unwanted for dungeons. Same goes for elementalists sometimes. Guardian is excellent support and then group needs just dps so 4 warriors or memer that povides a bit support with time warp, reflect, stealth and portal tricks.

Necromancer cant provide any kind of support that full dps team wants and same goes for thiefs and ragers and they also lack dps compared to guards and wars. if not as single target then atleast aoe damage is lesser. stacking tactic favor small aoe and high dps and all survivability you need is maby guardians buffs/heals but mostly just dps is enough and survivability is just dead weight.

Necromancers would be more useful if any kind of mob would have boons to remove for example but almost none has nothihing or then those are unremovable or obtained back so fast it doesn’t matter. Rangers favor range and they arent that useful in close combat and cos everything is stackable range isnt needed and melee does job faster. thiefs lack needed aoe and engineers have pretty much everything with them so they cant reach the same dps output as other classes.

Classes are still somewhat in balance because in pvp they are prety much all welcome as long as certain roles are found and even roles doesnt matter allways. pvp still supports teams that have class variety instead of pve.

In my opinion this should be dealt with somehow. I like my necromancer and probably would want to try other classes more too but now i have to play warrior all the time in dungeons if i want smooth runs that are also fast. “great risk and great prize”-thing is bullkitten because there really is no risk in zerk bursting everything. Its even faster mostly to fail once with zerker team and succeed in second try than start with teams that vary builds and classes.

Also at this point some Sherlock starts this “gw has no roles so kitten”-bullkitten. Having no roles doesn’t mean all the gears except one and most of the classes need to be useless in pve that is still biggest part of the game. In wvw we have this issue too but only class that isn’t really wanted is ranger…

This problem may not be seen in low lvl groups or groups that have players that have jsut reached their first 80lvl because these players have no possibility to have wanted classes and they are pretty much openminded for other classes because they dont know the stacking strategies or capabilities of each class but in experienced groups its real issue. For example friend just told me this after fractal lvl 39 “we take your necro because you have no other”. Thing is that i want to play as necro and as i saw what happened to normal dungeons when i tried warrior… nothing else than warrior since that…I want to keep fractals clear form that bullkitten. In some fractals i see necro sblind usefull too but im pretty sure those are also possible to do with just dps.

I also know that atleast necros dps capability towards single enemy has been proven to be about same as warriors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toyhtj0HPU8). Thanks for this goes to Nemesis for his awesome work. but thing is that dps necromancer still lacks aoe compared to “dungeon viable classes”. I think same problem goes for thiefs and rangers too. cant say much about engineers.

Hope this was all i had to say :/ i dont have much ideas to overcome the problem but thats not really my job anyway… I want to play this game and the class i want but now to do so i have to go to pvp or wvw to play them and feel useful and that is shame because i still kinda like dungeons.

So much is wrong with this post… let me fix it.

everyone knows that rangers, thiefs, necromancers and engineers are unwanted for dungeons. Same goes for elementalists sometimes

Firstly- Elementalists are the most sought after profession for dungeons because no other profession can conjure Ice bow /FGS or stack might/fury as effectively.
Secondly- Thieves are probably 2nd/3rd most useful profession for speedruns because stealth makes skipping mobs that previously could not be skipped, skippable…
Thirdly- it’s not that rangers/engies/thieves/necros aren’t wanted. Bad Rangers/engies/thieves/necros aren’t wanted. If you’re a ranger playing Bearbow your dps is gonna be nothing and I don’t want you in my group.

gabbe.8503

Necromancers would be more useful if any kind of mob would have boons to remove

Yes because no mobs in dungeons have boons… Dredge in SE/Fractals don’t have boons.
Golem in CoE doesn’t have boons.
Endboss of HotW P1 doesn’t have boons.
The list of mobs with boons is endless.

gabbe.8503

there really is no risk in zerk bursting everything

Where do you pull this logic from? How are the most squishy builds in game ‘not risky?’ Compare a 18k HP Zerker Warr with 0 toughness to a ptv warr with 34k health and 3000 armour… how on earth can you say zerker is not risky?

gabbe.8503

general rant about how necro is great and not to be ignored.

Then play necro.

gabbe.8503

want to play this game and the class i want

Yes because it’s impossible to do that…
Wait here’s an idea.. make your own lfg! Don’t join a lfg that says ‘no necro/ranger/engi’ Wow I’m a genius…

Im sure theres a bingo in here somewhere

As to the OP, see above…Cotser covered it.

Oh, i missed that, the part where thieves, rangers and engies lack DPS…bad rotations, wrong weapons and horrible builds cause that, not the class. Id take a good necro over a bad ranger anyday…so its not the class id stay away from, its the person playing that class. PHIW FTW. YOLO SWAG.

Ok i made mistake in elementalist case but thiefs are really wanted only for speedruns. Only things they actually have is stealth that is good and single tartget dps. Boons on coe golem and hotw endboss are boons that they get back about immediately after removing them. to actually remove them you need to dps soem other thing instead of the boss so romoving them from boss is useles. So necro, ranger and engi still remains weaker and more unwanted choises than othewers.

There is only a minor risk in zerk bursting and you should know that if you have doen dungeons before. if you run full pvt team it will take eternity to kill bosses and they still may hit you hard. so tecnically you may get 3 chotted by boss if you are zerker but these classes that are superrior have either blocks or evades to awoid that damage easily. Necro for example has its death shroud idd but it still lacks that aoe damage as zerker. and condition damage is pretty much useles if rest of the team kills mobs before you can apply even 5 stacks of bleeding. Tankier or more supportive builds are a bit more reliable for staying alive idd but zerkers mostly dont have any problem either. If your team has even one warrior to run battle standard the downed are up in no time or endure pain so you can safely resurrect that fallen friend.

And yeah im pretty much playing with friends or ppl that accepts most classes but that means i get less fast and mosltu less smooth runs. So when i need to grind the gold i still have to be on my warrior to get stuff fast.

And ofc ppl arent as good as others and somehow engineers, rangers and necros are moslty those noobs that cant control the class for some reason but still would you take good necro over good warrior in your team in CoF or TA for example. I would say about 80% of ppl will pick the war….

I had to check the post date to make sure it wasn’t from 2012. Geez guys.

Maby you live in future cos this problem clearly still exist….

I was hoping youd post on here Guanglai, but im sure gabbe doesnt know who you are so it really makes no difference.

gabbe.8503:

And ofc ppl arent as good as others and somehow engineers, rangers and necros are moslty those noobs that cant control the class for some reason but still would you take good necro over good warrior in your team in CoF or TA for example. I would say about 80% of ppl will pick the war….

Yeah id still take the good necro…if i had doubts about the person playing necro i wouldnt have him in my party regardless of class. Thats why i duo’d Arah with a guildie playing necro.

Stop doing AC.

I can tell you, I use lfg for all my dungeoning as of late, im an engie/necro/ranger player. and I did 6 or 7 paths today in decent time in lfg. Even some in non stacking situations.

I dont even bother doing AC, cause I look at lfg, “HEAVIES ONLY, or ELE”

“farming fast, ascended zerker only, ping!”

I only see these groups on AC. Cause AC gives you more bonus gold for some stupid reason. So it attracts the masses/stupidity.

I stealth skip as an engie(not as good as a theif) as well, there is PLENTY you can bring as an engie, vuln stacking, finishers/fields, stealth and even respectable dps all in the same build, WOW what a wild world.

Who the hell doesn’t like having elementalists in their parties…? I stopped reading the OP after this nonsense:

“So pretty much everyone knows that rangers, thiefs, necromancers and engineers are unwanted for dungeons. Same goes for elementalists sometimes. Guardian is excellent support and then group needs just dps so 4 warriors or memer that povides a bit support with time warp, reflect, stealth and portal tricks.”

I seriously HATE this Cof P1 mentality that noobs won’t let go of. Warriors have some of the lowest potential DPS amongst all of the classes in optimal conditions. They’re fantastic for pugging because of the self-buffing potential, amazing regen from healing signet, high hp pool, and utility offered from various weapons like GS. When it comes to straight DPS, eles and thieves have the highest.

OP if you want to be taken seriously, you aren’t doing a good job at presenting yourself… especially because you are commending that trashy Nemesis video xD

I welcome eles with open arms! The only ones I don’t want are the ones that aren’t equipped for DPS. I don’t appreciate people trying to burden me in dungeons/fractals with their WvW builds regardless of what class they’re on.

Scorpion Over Lord.9036:

gabbe.8503:

And ofc ppl arent as good as others and somehow engineers, rangers and necros are moslty those noobs that cant control the class for some reason but still would you take good necro over good warrior in your team in CoF or TA for example. I would say about 80% of ppl will pick the war….

Yeah id still take the good necro…if i had doubts about the person playing necro i wouldnt have him in my party regardless of class. Thats why i duo’d Arah with a guildie playing necro.

To be honest I almost always prefer other classes to pug warriors these days. I’m too used to seeing rifles and banners of defense or people camping dolyak signets, so I agree with you and I’d much rather take a necro if I was certain that the person playing it was going to be using everything that’s available to them to perform at their best.

1. So much false information in your first post.
2. Abandon bad pugs.
3. Make your own groups.
4. ???
5. Profit.

ps: Brace yourselves. Summer is coming.

5 things:
Thieves no dps? wow
Rangers no help? kitten, the spirits aren’t needed here anymore
necro same dps as war…. NEMESIS?
Is OP high about the no risk with zerk? didn’t he watch the tournament?
Bingo

Pretty sure his post would have given cancer to cancer.

Also, spoj had the maximum DPS necro build sorted out long before Nemesis’s trash. We’ve always known the single-target DPS of necro is fine— it’s the support + cleave that is lacking from that class.

I don’t know with what kind of rangers you have been playing with, but a sword/warhorn ranger is quite useful in dungeons since he brings Spotter and Frostspirit. Their DPS isn’t that bad either and could replace a mesmer for reflects on bosses like Lupicus. You don’t really need a mesmer anyway, unless you have some clever portal tricks.

As for thief…maybe run Sword/Pistol for trash mobs where you need the cleave? Then switch to D/D for bosses.

Well Necromancers do lack cleave and any form of support that another class can’t do better, but I have yet to be kicked pugging with it. So I don’t know what would stop you from playing it.

Purple Miku.7032:

Scorpion Over Lord.9036:

gabbe.8503:

And ofc ppl arent as good as others and somehow engineers, rangers and necros are moslty those noobs that cant control the class for some reason but still would you take good necro over good warrior in your team in CoF or TA for example. I would say about 80% of ppl will pick the war….

Yeah id still take the good necro…if i had doubts about the person playing necro i wouldnt have him in my party regardless of class. Thats why i duo’d Arah with a guildie playing necro.

To be honest I almost always prefer other classes to pug warriors these days. I’m too used to seeing rifles and banners of defense or people camping dolyak signets, so I agree with you and I’d much rather take a necro if I was certain that the person playing it was going to be using everything that’s available to them to perform at their best.

People are very quick to blame an entire class for being bad but they dont seem to understand that the finger should be pointed at the person behind the keyboard itself. A bad Ranger/Necro/Engineer/Thief is going to be bad on Warrior aswell, fortunately for that player Warrior is forgiving and you can roll your face across the keyboard and stuff will die. But find me a GREAT Warrior among all those pug groups and it will be hard to find. A good player will play well on any class after a few hours of playing it, a bad player will be a bad player.

I am still waiting for your video scorp. I want to see you running a dungeon while literally rolling your face through the keyboard during fights while playing war.

@Scorpion – Sorry but your reply to me is kind of confusing. I’m not really sure what your point is and if you mean to direct it towards me.

The big advantage with warrior is that there is the social pressure towards good play provided by declaring banners at the start. That said I still see the occasional dolyak signet warrior with ranged weapons, but that tends to be newer players.

deep breath,

take a step back….

now,
You have laid it out on the table. and I will give you some good props for making a far better attempt than many people that have come before you. I am not going to poke very many holes in your argument as others are doing it. However understand that if you choose to, this can turn into a good discussion on how to make some stuff work FOR you and let the regulars and High end players HELP you so that you feel like you can come away from this with at least a little bit more knowledge and direction.

Some things first:

the only class currently that does not have a place in the SPEED RUN mentality is the necromancer. I will come back to this later.

Elementalists are HIGHLY sought after. they are the highest damaging class have wonderful utility and are generally all around useful.

Thieves have a good spot and it is not just because of stealth. Yes stealth is a great utility but they bring a bunch of other things, among them being Blinds, Usefull crowd control via scorpion wire. And easily one of the best abilities to strip defiant via off hand pistol. They also have obscene damage. and not just against single targets.

Rangers are an auto attack modification away from being the second most sought after dungeon class. Outside of that you still get some great damage, spotter and frost spirit and even a reflect.

Engineers are complicated. they are good at doing everything. but not great at any one thing. Hence they are awesome for Pugging and casual runs. But may find themselves not really needed in speed running.

Something to understand. “speed running” is done VERY, VERY rarely. It is accomplished by an organised group. with a VERY specific focus. Everything else is “casual”. Be it a farm tour, or just goofing off with some friends.

Running DPS build, and Wearing beserker gear is hard. it takes skill. Saying other wise is only lying to yourself or others. If you take some time and watch some of the Videos of the recent Dungeon Tourney. As a spectator, yes you could very easily seem to think that its all stack in corner and firey greatsword your way to gold and gems. if you actually put yourself in the position they are in you will find yourself pushing your knowledge of your class and what its capable of to its very limit. Why does it seem so easy? because they have been doing it for awhile. Practice, lots and lots of practice and knowledge of encounters.

Now,
Necromancers… I LOVE my Necromancer. It is the only one that has full ascended gear, it was the first one. All of my goodies are on it. So you are aware of how much time i have invested in it…. The reason Necromancers are not part of the “speed run Meta” is for one reason. They lack any sort of GROUP UTILITY. There… that’s it. Necromancers are a selfish class. Anything that they could bring to the table another class can do better. Yes, we have a blind, Yes we have a condi cleanse, and a regen. but they are all on such long cool downs that we become one shot and hope it works. It is just the nature of the beast right now. Do we like it? no not really. Would the Necromancer be welcomed into the speed run meta with open arms if they had something usefull to bring to the table? Absolutely. But we don’t, so we wait, and see what the future brings.

Which ultimatly is what you were asking for in the beginning. As a plea to anyone that may or may not see it. in a hope that the Necromancer could use some help. At least in PvE. Everything else was rambling, much like i just did.

so I apologize for being odd and strange, and most likely not making any sense.

Tl;Dr
Like playing your necromancer? Good on you, I certainly like mine. Keep at it and have fun.
Want to be part of a Dungeon ’TEAM". them be a part of the TEAM. Regardless of the class, have several. fit the needs of the TEAM as you feel that it will benefit the TEAM. And work together to accomplish your goals, as a TEAM Be it just a group that regularly gets together to run some dungeon paths. Or a group that wants to get a good farm going. or if you have designs on Entering the next tourney, or submitting a record to Guild wars speed records. Dont just try to be a good Necromancer, or warrior, or whatever.

Go and be a good player

gabbe.8503:

-snip-

People like OP, please stop spreading wrong information and implying that they are facts just because “this guy says this in this guide” and “this guy in my guild said this” while not at the very least having rough confirmation of evidence on your own.

Yes, we need better utilities and stuff for necromancers to help parties. They have garbage helping utilities. Minions that are more of a burden in dungeons than help. No cleave. Other classes can cleave without evening traiting from just their weapons.

Guardians has good dps, party aegis, condition removal and reflects.

Warriors has banners, good dps with axe auto, and can might stacks with PS(not for speed clears, but they still have this awesome option for pugs). A longbow for might stacking if their party is missing fire fields.

Elementalists has great might stacking and provides conjure weapons that are really powerful (ice bows and fiery greatsword), great dps with staff or Lightning hammer. They can also slightly heal while using conjure weapons without even trying in water atunement.

Mesmers has great reflect options, condition removal if necessary, portal and timewarp. These great support makes up for what they lack compared to other professions.

Thieves has great stealth to skip mobs in dungeons, make things smoother in runs. Great single target dps to blow up bosses. They even have a spammable blast finisher with their shortbow just because they can.

Rangers has spotter and frost spirit, but their sword dps for some unknown reason jumps around and prevents you from dodging unless you swap weapons when you don’t want to. Nobody wants them using a bow. Their pets are so important that rangers are the only profession that have to worry about their pet dying or not. Dead pet = lost of dps. Other classes don’t have to care about their pet dying.

Engineers can do a bit of everything. Sometimes not so great but at least they can do it.

Necromancers don’t help the team. Nobody wants a healing necromancer, because they’re garbage. Just give them a passive boon that allows the party to life leech from mobs when they’re near the necromancer. Like that signet of vampricicicic something but better, because that signet is not so good. Every class has a weapon that can cleave! Why oh why does the necromancer not get a cleave weapon? Give them a scythe, they can be the dervish that people want back. We can give them a bone and also let necromancer cleave with a scythe, it fits their profession too.

@Purple Miku, lol, no dude, it was in no way directed at you, saying i agree that pugs blame a class for being bad, its not the class but the people playing it. Wasnt saying you playing that class sucks LOL, id be sticking my foot in my mouth if i said that. Please excuse my English, its my 1st language :P

Bread.7516:

gabbe.8503:

-snip-

People like OP, please stop spreading wrong information and implying that they are facts just because “this guy says this in this guide” and “this guy in my guild said this” while not at the very least having rough confirmation of evidence on your own.

While i agree with you, from the OP’s staindpoint neither of us have right. We are just random people saying random things. If OP accept it as an advice or a fact, good for him. If not, well … Just check the first post and that link in it. :/

Scorpion Over Lord.9036:

@Purple Miku, lol, no dude, it was in no way directed at you, saying i agree that pugs blame a class for being bad, its not the class but the people playing it. Wasnt saying you playing that class sucks LOL, id be sticking my foot in my mouth if i said that. Please excuse my English, its my 1st language :P

I thought so, just wanted to make sure I understood you properly that’s all

Thanks for clarifying.

Cotser.7015:

So much is wrong with this post… let me fix it.

everyone knows that rangers, thiefs, necromancers and engineers are unwanted for dungeons. Same goes for elementalists sometimes

Firstly- Elementalists are the most sought after profession for dungeons because no other profession can conjure Ice bow /FGS or stack might/fury as effectively.
Secondly- Thieves are probably 2nd/3rd most useful profession for speedruns because stealth makes skipping mobs that previously could not be skipped, skippable…
Thirdly- it’s not that rangers/engies/thieves/necros aren’t wanted. Bad Rangers/engies/thieves/necros aren’t wanted. If you’re a ranger playing Bearbow your dps is gonna be nothing and I don’t want you in my group.

gabbe.8503

Necromancers would be more useful if any kind of mob would have boons to remove

Yes because no mobs in dungeons have boons… Dredge in SE/Fractals don’t have boons.
Golem in CoE doesn’t have boons.
Endboss of HotW P1 doesn’t have boons.
The list of mobs with boons is endless.

gabbe.8503

there really is no risk in zerk bursting everything

Where do you pull this logic from? How are the most squishy builds in game ‘not risky?’ Compare a 18k HP Zerker Warr with 0 toughness to a ptv warr with 34k health and 3000 armour… how on earth can you say zerker is not risky?

gabbe.8503

general rant about how necro is great and not to be ignored.

Then play necro.

gabbe.8503

want to play this game and the class i want

Yes because it’s impossible to do that…
Wait here’s an idea.. make your own lfg! Don’t join a lfg that says ‘no necro/ranger/engi’ Wow I’m a genius…

This is actualy wrong.

The most sought after profession is WARRIOR.
Simply because its so easy to use to be extremeley unbalanced.
After that, unless the dungeon is really easy, comes the guardian because it makes stuff so easy that can’t really been given up.

FInally it comes elementalist due to the high damage (with or without fgs).
But if you look at lfgs, people won t start with 3+ eles but will gladly start with 4+ warriors almost any dungeon.

Also let me say how much damage did this forum to the community.
The elitism we read on forums led many players that for sure needs some strong support, to ask only for berserker and extremely squishy party comps.

Everyone nowaday feels a pro but in the end needs to be carried; but they also wants to be carried by berserker guardians and elementalists.

If you are not able to run with ANY party composition (from speedgroups to unconventional groups) you are probably the problem.
If you don t know what each class can provide to a dungeon run you shouldn t really be so strict in requirements.

If you get a good mesmer or a good necro, the run will be often way faster than the average warrior (expecially if you wait 15 min to build a party).

The only thing i believe is that PvE needs a strong push to heavy professions skill floor.
So finally people won t believe that necromancers are bad for any dungeon, and they won t choose warriors and guardians because even a beginner can do well with them.

P.S. not referring to any player in particular.

OP has clearly never seen a thief carry in Caudecus Manor.

Remember to always kick the ranger before the guardian.

Also, I once got carried through HotW pt1 by a necro, beat that.

This thread has as usual turned into elite speed runners giving their view on PUG runs. I’m sorry to disappoint you forum hounds but there is no class balance in PUGs. Guardian and warrior are still the best classes in pugland. Five heavies will set off to do anything whilst five mediums will give up before they start. Then again, you never see a group with five medium classes because most people have given up on them and bring heavies. Elementalists, mesmers, and thieves are ok although most PUGs still want some heavies so that someone will lead the line. Nobody ever sees engineers so that leaves rangers and necros at the bottom of the pile.

It doesn’t matter that spotter in elite groups gives rangers blah blah blah. It doesn’t matter than any class can solo the whole dungeon. There’s no point telling the OP that classes are equally desired in PUG dungeons because he can see for his own eyes that they are not. I’m guessing that nobody has given the OP useful advice because the only useful advice is to start a warrior.

Why do you think class balance should be based around pug misconceptions? You take heavy classes because they’re just easy mode, not because they’re efficient.

Class balance in dungeons is fine, people are just dumb and think warriors are overpowered because apparently we’re still in 2012.

maha.7902:

Why do you think class balance should be based around pug misconceptions? You take heavy classes because they’re just easy mode, not because they’re efficient.

Class balance in dungeons is fine, people are just dumb and think warriors are overpowered because apparently we’re still in 2012.

Its not fine though. :<

There are a few actual points brought up in this thread that have merit:

1. Necros have a problem in PvE. This is undeniable, and they need a fairly significant overhaul to even be useful in pugs, let alone organized groups. Suggestions on this have been given dozens of time and there is no need to rehash it here.

2. PvE class balance, Necros aside, is in a really good place at the highest level. Organized groups and competent guilds have pretty accurate view of the actual profession balance. The 4w/1x days are long gone. For pugs, YMMV. I’ve been in good pugs where people ran good builds and used meta tactics and things went smoothly with no one saying anything in chat other than to ping banners. There are those “other pugs” though. The problem with balancing the game around bad pug groups is the same about balancing PvP around hotjoins. The general rule for game balance is that you balance the game mode around what is happening at the highest level since any imbalance that exist only in lower levels are almost always Learn To Play Issues.

He hasn’t posted in response recently. OP could likely be a troll. The sentence structure seems kind of shady.

maha.7902:

Why do you think class balance should be based around pug misconceptions? You take heavy classes because they’re just easy mode, not because they’re efficient.

Class balance in dungeons is fine, people are just dumb and think warriors are overpowered because apparently we’re still in 2012.

You’re still taking the balance on the elite speed runner view of June 2014. Elites think the classes are balanced because with max dps everything dies so fast it poses no threat. Rangers and Elementalists have a handful of high dps skills/traits so they are completely fine, really? What happens when high performing skills are shaved down on the next class balancing update? PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

Stooperdale.3560:

PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

I take it you didn’t watch the tourney on Saturday? There are just as many mistakes and runs are far from perfect even amongst top guilds and “elite” dungeon players.

The perfect runs you see on youtube are far from the norm, and take many hours of attempts/practice and sometimes a bit of good RNG to achieve record level clear times. It’s not something people do on a daily basis.

On topic:
The balance is mostly fine, I can take any class other than a necro and have some meaningful contribution to a group. I don’t think PvE balance should be based on gwscr.com, or terrible PUG groups.

Stooperdale.3560:

PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

You won the internet today. Check out the post above yours and reread it until you understand it why balancing for new players / noobs / pugs isn’t a good thing. Half of the pugs still want to roleplay healers and tanks in a game without the classical trinity. Just sayin’.

Stooperdale.3560:

maha.7902:

Why do you think class balance should be based around pug misconceptions? You take heavy classes because they’re just easy mode, not because they’re efficient.

Class balance in dungeons is fine, people are just dumb and think warriors are overpowered because apparently we’re still in 2012.

You’re still taking the balance on the elite speed runner view of June 2014. Elites think the classes are balanced because with max dps everything dies so fast it poses no threat. Rangers and Elementalists have a handful of high dps skills/traits so they are completely fine, really? What happens when high performing skills are shaved down on the next class balancing update? PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

I rarely run in organised groups. I mostly pug.

Class balance, bar necro, is fine.

What about giving engineers a way to give groupwide aegis, yay or nay?

Nay. They got enough they can do. Seeing no reason for ANet to add even Aegis on them.

They should just undo the 15% grenade dps nerf from a year or so ago and engineers would be in the same ballpark as other professions.

Ok… wanted to wait for more answers and discussion before saying more. So technically it seems that necro is a bit less usefull than other classes. Ofc every class can perform fine and even outrageous when played well but as the ppl here have said necro lacks support and cleave and its damage is still about same as on others i would still say its not in balance. Its not that big issue than bug groups think but its still “lesser” choise than the other classes. I agree that problem with ranger and engi is mostly because of the players skill lvl and it seems those classes are just harder to master than others.

To the guy(s) that think im troll because “shady” sentence forming and so on… no im not. My english isn’t as fluent as on others or atleast im not good at writing things as ppl happen to do. Also i admit it was mistake to write this just after one another “neco hate session” i had in game. But i dont take my words back atleast in case of necro.

I also ran arah with my necro yesterday and it performed fine enough but i still see warrior as superrior compared to necro because of the utility it has compared to necros about 0 support. with good setup i can trait my necor so it can give protection or heal a bit and still keep the dps in about same as highest possible necro build i have found but guardians do this so much better than necro and they still can keep the damage about in same lvl. Also finding the group took a lot longer than with warrior because ppl avoid necromancer. we didnt get the best possible group as i didnt expect from lfg but atleast it wasnt really my necro that was the problem because we had enough recflect and banners already about any class can fill the place but ofc some support would have been nice. Im not making new absolute opinions with this arah run tho. Just added this here to maby somehow point out that i can somewhat handle my class and would be sad if i wouldnt after 1600h playing it.

Atleast some ppl agree with me in some lvl that necro is a bit more underpowered compared to other classes. Even i sence highly negative attitude towards my post i will now thank you because these posts have made me mad against warrior elitism and i actually updated my necros build and will start using it again instead of warrior even that may it cause me to face more necro hate moments and in worst case totally kill my interst towards this game as it happended with LoL cos of toxic and ignorant community :/

I main my necro too, just open your own groups. People who don’t want to play with necros will avoid the group and everyone else will join. And in all honesty, those people who will join you aren’t any worse.
Yeah, the necro needs buffs (a start would be making all those buffs he can give himself group-wide, giving him a cleave weapon and overall better support, as already said), but well played he is still not useless, just not as useful as other classes. Also, necros are better in fractals than in dungeons imo.

Tree.3916:

They should just undo the 15% grenade dps nerf from a year or so ago and engineers would be in the same ballpark as other professions.

That would put them at staff ele level DPS. I don’t think that’s what anyone actually wants cause that’s just silly.

Why are Necros bad in dungeons again? I’ve run mine in random pugs more often than not, and actually have done much better than pugs with my warrior. I agree with whats been said before. It’s not the class but the player. Take ranger for example. Rangers can be awesome, if played right. “bearbow” rangers are not playing right.
And necros? even a condi necro can be VERY useful and effective in dungeons. Minion necros can be too, but generally cause some issues with engaging too soon.
Thieves? Not so much. Ran Arah p2 last night with 2 necros, 2 thieves, and a warrior. We actually didn’t do too badly.

Necros have some pretty weak team synergy. They are still quite strong standalone or in low manning. Have had some fun play with Necro guildies.

Saint.5647:

Necros have some pretty weak team synergy. They are still quite strong standalone or in low manning. Have had some fun play with Necro guildies.

It’s just pretty sad that the guild you’re advertising in your signature specifically says in their post that they don’t use Necroes

Must be discouraging to main a Necro/Ranger in PvE with stuff like this everywhere

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Vikkela.7261:

Saint.5647:

Necros have some pretty weak team synergy. They are still quite strong standalone or in low manning. Have had some fun play with Necro guildies.

It’s just pretty sad that the guild you’re advertising in your signature specifically says in their post that they don’t use Necroes

Must be discouraging to main a Necro/Ranger in PvE with stuff like this everywhere

I’m pretty sure they are referring to dungeon tours only.