Guild Wars 2

Fixing this thread.

15sadcharrs

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Guard can provide quickness too XD

Jerus.4350:

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Guard can provide quickness too XD

rip mes

but hey guards can’t do this!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fCfpKZ0_s8

maxinion.8396:

Jerus.4350:

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Guard can provide quickness too XD

rip mes

but hey guards can’t do this!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fCfpKZ0_s8

Aye honestly, Untraited Wardens are probably the only truly unique thing mesmers have. And Traited wardens and all that reflect is nice as well. Never done the math, but 5 guards, 100% WoR uptime?

Portals… technically… http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Watchwork_Portal_Device

Vikkela.7261:

Saint.5647:

Necros have some pretty weak team synergy. They are still quite strong standalone or in low manning. Have had some fun play with Necro guildies.

It’s just pretty sad that the guild you’re advertising in your signature specifically says in their post that they don’t use Necroes

Must be discouraging to main a Necro/Ranger in PvE with stuff like this everywhere

The recruitment refers to the meta. Once someone is a member and a part of our community there isn’t any restriction on their classes.

If you read the recruitment you will also notice that we don’t allow people to trial on Warriors. New members need to demonstrate a few benchmarks for skill and synergy but there are no limitations for members.

Like I said, Necros have some nice use standalone or lowman but we don’t generally use them in groups. Not really forcing anyone out of playing one. Sometimes people will bring them but most of the time they don’t. We are pretty like minded players though and don’t like using something just to PHIW.

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Necro actually has okay vuln and weakness stacking. The problem is that the engineer has better vuln stacking and weakness is usually viewed as non-important.

A buff to weakness might help necro out a bit, as would quite a few other changes, but that’s neither here nor there.

As Saint has said, its mainly for trialing as its not fair to gauge skill of a selfish class with two health bars and determine from those runs the skill level of that player…put them on an ele or thief and im going to see if they are team players and know what they need to bring to the table. Once they pass their trial i some times need to convince people to get on their necro just because of the anti necro thing going on.

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Are you trying to shoo Sandy away?!

D:

Purple Miku.7032:

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Are you trying to shoo Sandy away?!

D:

it’s ok, sandy and i cry together

Dalanor.5387:

Stooperdale.3560:

PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

You won the internet today. Check out the post above yours and reread it until you understand it why balancing for new players / noobs / pugs isn’t a good thing. Half of the pugs still want to roleplay healers and tanks in a game without the classical trinity. Just sayin’.

According to what you say, anet should ve not implemented LFG because you want to balance the game around the 5-6 PVE guilds around.

If you instead consider the average player, even with a decent knowledge of his profession it won t be able to achieve perfect party composition, won t have Always a guild party nor will have 8 identical weapons with dungeon sigils, and possible will have the same weapons (berserker with slightly suboptimal sigils) shared with WWW.

If you don t accept this try to imagine a guild wars 2 with 300 players…because itw what you are asking to balance around.

Skill floor is something to balance around in PvE.
PvE is not an esport

Everything is already pretty balanced around the skill floor though.

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

maxinion.8396:

It’s not ZERK’s fault for realizing necro brings nothing useful to the table. They do decent dps and have moderate survivability and can provide a bit of blind and weakness— but there are other classes that are better at all of that.

Ranger, on the other hand, has unique bonuses like spotter and frost spirit. That makes them good.

Take a look also at what’s happening to Mesmer. Time warp is seen as less important, and guardians have enough reflects and other types of support. The only unique thing a Mesmer can do is portal. So for the most part, that’s the only reason to bring a Mesmer. I main a mes, so it sucks to realize that, but that’s just the way it is. I play ele and warrior in most dungeons instead.

Necro actually has okay vuln and weakness stacking. The problem is that the engineer has better vuln stacking and weakness is usually viewed as non-important.

A buff to weakness might help necro out a bit, as would quite a few other changes, but that’s neither here nor there.

Weakness was already buffed and it can be obtained by consumables. So no it wont help necro out a bit.

LordByron.8369:

Dalanor.5387:

Stooperdale.3560:

PUGs actually see a more rounded view of the game as they see all the problems that dungeons can pose, not perfect runs with best builds and well tried tactics.

You won the internet today. Check out the post above yours and reread it until you understand it why balancing for new players / noobs / pugs isn’t a good thing. Half of the pugs still want to roleplay healers and tanks in a game without the classical trinity. Just sayin’.

According to what you say, anet should ve not implemented LFG because you want to balance the game around the 5-6 PVE guilds around.

If you instead consider the average player, even with a decent knowledge of his profession it won t be able to achieve perfect party composition, won t have Always a guild party nor will have 8 identical weapons with dungeon sigils, and possible will have the same weapons (berserker with slightly suboptimal sigils) shared with WWW.

If you don t accept this try to imagine a guild wars 2 with 300 players…because itw what you are asking to balance around.

Skill floor is something to balance around in PvE.
PvE is not an esport

TKiller and maha was faster …
The balance or more likely the difficulty of the content leans towards the weakest denominator. The game isn’t punishing (enough) for not using meta or close to meta builds. Not punishing for not using might or vulnerability.
Raising the skill floor actually just raise the skill floor. So instead training the playerbase to be dumb sheeps and chanting the “auto attack is enough lol pve is easy ESPAHTZ!” mantra, content must be at least half decent in challange. The Crown pavilon was a great example again. People just zerged it mindlessly and got punished via less rewards.

Btw is the pvp of GW2 e-sports yet? Why not?

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

We also had some on character appearence.

And PvE skill floor is all but balanced.

Until the content is extremely easy once you beat it just once, its hard to consider it skill.

Most of the “skilled” players just reproduce youtube videos…
While i agree that the first to discover certain tactics were indeed skilled.

And when you switch from (example)elementalist to warrior you learn the difference between playing an imitation of dark souls, and an imitation of darksouls with 3 lifes.

P.S. i don t even consider dark soul “difficult”.

No offense but you barely understand the game so the fact you make such powerful statements from such little knowledge should make you pause and reflect, but yet you don’t.

LordByron.8369:

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

We also had some on character appearence.

And PvE skill floor is all but balanced.

Until the content is extremely easy once you beat it just once, its hard to consider it skill.

Most of the “skilled” players just reproduce youtube videos…
While i agree that the first to discover certain tactics were indeed skilled.

And when you switch from (example)elementalist to warrior you learn the difference between playing an imitation of dark souls, and an imitation of darksouls with 3 lifes.

P.S. i don t even consider dark soul “difficult”.

No video game is that difficult, and successful.

Want a “difficult” video game, go play battletoads, but personally I don’t find that kind of difficult entertaining.

So what do you consider difficult? PVP? /shrug personally I find that dull in this game.

As one of my buddies use to say, video games are just about pressing buttons, it’s not that hard.

But at the same time, some people do it a heck of a lot better than others.

Balancing around skill floor just leads to classes being stupidly broken at the top end. That then leads to newbies getting steamrolled by the ridiculously broken top tier characters being played by top-level players and then crying about that. In this case, you can balance pug-level effectiveness and watch said pugs cry about not being able to get into “elitist” groups because you just made _ class stupidly OP and no one wants anything else.

Fun fact: Most people like to think they are top-level meta players whether they are or not. That’s why you see constant whining about top tiers in fighting games even if said top tiers are insanely hard to play and 99% of the tourney scene can’t even play said character at a halfway decent level, much less well enough to justify top tier status.

Who is suggesting that the game should be balanced for the low end skill and not high end skill? The game should be balanced for all.

Stooperdale.3560:

Who is suggesting that the game should be balanced for the low end skill and not high end skill? The game should be balanced for all.

I think Lord Byron was suggesting that if the pug meta is “OMG 5 HEAVIES” that the heavy classes should be nerfed so that the pug meta changes. The issue, as we are pointing out, is that at the top end of PvE heavies comprise at most 2 per group and there is no balance issue with heavies.

For example, PU mesmers are really really strong in hotjoins, but they are basically useless in tpvp. If anet nerfed PU mesmers hard in order to satisfy the hotjoin cryhards, they have a good chance of inadvertently nerfing mesmers out of existence in tpvp.

I mentioned before that whenever there are “balance issues” at the skill floor that don’t exist at the skill cap those issues can almost always be resolved through L2P.

Tree.3916:

Stooperdale.3560:

Who is suggesting that the game should be balanced for the low end skill and not high end skill? The game should be balanced for all.

I think Lord Byron was suggesting that if the pug meta is “OMG 5 HEAVIES” that the heavy classes should be nerfed so that the pug meta changes. The issue, as we are pointing out, is that at the top end of PvE heavies comprise at most 2 per group and there is no balance issue with heavies.

For example, PU mesmers are really really strong in hotjoins, but they are basically useless in tpvp. If anet nerfed PU mesmers hard in order to satisfy the hotjoin cryhards, they have a good chance of inadvertently nerfing mesmers out of existence in tpvp.

I mentioned before that whenever there are “balance issues” at the skill floor that don’t exist at the skill cap those issues can almost always be resolved through L2P.

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/181326/Magic_The_Gatherings_Richard_Garfields_strategies_for_game_balancing.php

Excerpt from Richard Garfield, the designer of Magic the Gathering

“Often designers will design the game to be balanced for the expert,” Garfield says. “This is certainly the way we thought about it in the early days of Magic, and it took me a while to outgrow this mode of thought.”

A game balanced to favor experts risks other types of gamers having an unbalanced experience — and the game may lose most of its players before they ever develop the skill level to attain the well-balanced experience. Meanwhile the experts run out of people to play with.

Also, balancing for experts often fails to consider that there might be levels of proficiency even above what the game is desgned to contain. Designers aren’t necessarily the best players — most of the time, they’re not, actually.

Basically if PU mesmers are strong in the low end and mesmers are weak in the high end. Nerf PU mesmers and give them something else that is both balanced in the low end and high end.

Except, standard, modern, legacy and vintage are all balanced around the high-end, not casuals. The only format balanced around casuals is EDH, which is a casual format.

So I don’t see where you’re even going with this.

tournament balance != game balance. Comparing apples to oranges.

I feel in terms of class balance in dungeons, Eles with their FGS is OP as hell. Once you know the fgs rush trick, there is no going back. It just does way too much dmg. PUGs do it, organized groups do it.

Jerus.4350:

LordByron.8369:

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

We also had some on character appearence.

And PvE skill floor is all but balanced.

Until the content is extremely easy once you beat it just once, its hard to consider it skill.

Most of the “skilled” players just reproduce youtube videos…
While i agree that the first to discover certain tactics were indeed skilled.

And when you switch from (example)elementalist to warrior you learn the difference between playing an imitation of dark souls, and an imitation of darksouls with 3 lifes.

P.S. i don t even consider dark soul “difficult”.

No video game is that difficult, and successful.

Want a “difficult” video game, go play battletoads, but personally I don’t find that kind of difficult entertaining.

So what do you consider difficult? PVP? /shrug personally I find that dull in this game.

As one of my buddies use to say, video games are just about pressing buttons, it’s not that hard.

But at the same time, some people do it a heck of a lot better than others.

Civilization is not successful?
Its about pressing buttons?
is it easy?

P.S. notice that despite what wotc says magic the gathering have recently dumbed down to incredible levels.
So anyone can be a pro. (usually who is better at cheating if you just watch tournament history).

Don t listen to marketing.

Jerus.4350:

LordByron.8369:

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

We also had some on character appearence.

And PvE skill floor is all but balanced.

Until the content is extremely easy once you beat it just once, its hard to consider it skill.

Most of the “skilled” players just reproduce youtube videos…
While i agree that the first to discover certain tactics were indeed skilled.

And when you switch from (example)elementalist to warrior you learn the difference between playing an imitation of dark souls, and an imitation of darksouls with 3 lifes.

P.S. i don t even consider dark soul “difficult”.

No video game is that difficult, and successful.

Want a “difficult” video game, go play battletoads, but personally I don’t find that kind of difficult entertaining.

So what do you consider difficult? PVP? /shrug personally I find that dull in this game.

As one of my buddies use to say, video games are just about pressing buttons, it’s not that hard.

But at the same time, some people do it a heck of a lot better than others.

Analogy of mashing 1 button to Bruce Lee quote "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.
"

[/quote]

P.S. notice that despite what wotc says magic the gathering have recently dumbed down to incredible levels.
So anyone can be a pro. (usually who is better at cheating if you just watch tournament history).

Don t listen to marketing.

Actually Garfield left wotc around 2000.

going to defend engis a bit. Leaving rest of discussion untouched, because most of stuff people already said about ele and thiefs are true.

Engi, outside of thief, is probably best vuln stacker you’ll ever get. And they do this without placing dark fields everywhere. 25 stacks of vuln = 25% dps increase. Additional they have high aoe burst with rifle and toolbelt skills + get some useful utilities if needed: 12 sec of stealth from blasting + 5 sec for elixir s, elixir u projectile block / reflect (good for complementary use), fire fields every 10 seconds for LH ele, aoe cleanse with pretty good heal on 15 sec cooldown, blinds with flame turret, bombs and grenades, defiant stripping, knockbacks (which is kinda annoying most of the time).

That makes them not as useful as thief or ele (most of the time), but actually more useful than second or third warrior in balanced party.

But, well, I’m not a pro dungeon speed runner. I’m doing dungeons pretty efficient with my guildies, and don’t have too many problems with fractals, since we’re running pretty balanced parties.

We fell into the trap of “big numbers” and lack of dps meter. People still think warrior is better than anything else because of hb. But actually they’re not best dps class, they’re just easier to play than ele and thief.

EcoRI.9273:

Tree.3916:

Stooperdale.3560:

Who is suggesting that the game should be balanced for the low end skill and not high end skill? The game should be balanced for all.

I think Lord Byron was suggesting that if the pug meta is “OMG 5 HEAVIES” that the heavy classes should be nerfed so that the pug meta changes. The issue, as we are pointing out, is that at the top end of PvE heavies comprise at most 2 per group and there is no balance issue with heavies.

For example, PU mesmers are really really strong in hotjoins, but they are basically useless in tpvp. If anet nerfed PU mesmers hard in order to satisfy the hotjoin cryhards, they have a good chance of inadvertently nerfing mesmers out of existence in tpvp.

I mentioned before that whenever there are “balance issues” at the skill floor that don’t exist at the skill cap those issues can almost always be resolved through L2P.

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/181326/Magic_The_Gatherings_Richard_Garfields_strategies_for_game_balancing.php

Excerpt from Richard Garfield, the designer of Magic the Gathering

“Often designers will design the game to be balanced for the expert,” Garfield says. “This is certainly the way we thought about it in the early days of Magic, and it took me a while to outgrow this mode of thought.”

A game balanced to favor experts risks other types of gamers having an unbalanced experience — and the game may lose most of its players before they ever develop the skill level to attain the well-balanced experience. Meanwhile the experts run out of people to play with.

Also, balancing for experts often fails to consider that there might be levels of proficiency even above what the game is desgned to contain. Designers aren’t necessarily the best players — most of the time, they’re not, actually.

That really isn’t the situation Lord Byron claims is occurring in PvE. Pugs think 5 heavies = best because they don’t know that it actually isn’t the best. They are not aware that it is inefficient and suboptimal. If they were aware of what is optimal and best this would not be a potential issue.

My PU example was poor, because it actually did fit the MtG example where you have a build that IS extremely overpowered at low skill levels. The 5 heavy pve example does not fit this because it 5 heavies are NOT extremely overpowered. The PU Mesmer build is a balance issue in reality, but the 5 heavies are only an imaginary balance issue.

A more refined version of my point is balancing the game with skill floor in consideration is fine, but you have to make sure that you are buffing and nerfing based on actual imbalances and not fake perceptions of imbalances.

LordByron.8369:

Jerus.4350:

LordByron.8369:

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

We also had some on character appearence.

And PvE skill floor is all but balanced.

Until the content is extremely easy once you beat it just once, its hard to consider it skill.

Most of the “skilled” players just reproduce youtube videos…
While i agree that the first to discover certain tactics were indeed skilled.

And when you switch from (example)elementalist to warrior you learn the difference between playing an imitation of dark souls, and an imitation of darksouls with 3 lifes.

P.S. i don t even consider dark soul “difficult”.

No video game is that difficult, and successful.

Want a “difficult” video game, go play battletoads, but personally I don’t find that kind of difficult entertaining.

So what do you consider difficult? PVP? /shrug personally I find that dull in this game.

As one of my buddies use to say, video games are just about pressing buttons, it’s not that hard.

But at the same time, some people do it a heck of a lot better than others.

Civilization is not successful?
Its about pressing buttons?
is it easy?

P.S. notice that despite what wotc says magic the gathering have recently dumbed down to incredible levels.
So anyone can be a pro. (usually who is better at cheating if you just watch tournament history).

Don t listen to marketing.

I should have said no Reaction based gameplay video game is all that successful if they push the difficulty too high. And that’s what GW2 is, it’sa bout active defense, which is about reading and reacting. Strategy games like Civ of course are a different beast.

Divus.3175:

going to defend engis a bit. Leaving rest of discussion untouched, because most of stuff people already said about ele and thiefs are true.

Engi, outside of thief, is probably best vuln stacker you’ll ever get. And they do this without placing dark fields everywhere. 25 stacks of vuln = 25% dps increase. Additional they have high aoe burst with rifle and toolbelt skills + get some useful utilities if needed: 12 sec of stealth from blasting + 5 sec for elixir s, elixir u projectile block / reflect (good for complementary use), fire fields every 10 seconds for LH ele, aoe cleanse with pretty good heal on 15 sec cooldown, blinds with flame turret, bombs and grenades, defiant stripping, knockbacks (which is kinda annoying most of the time).

That makes them not as useful as thief or ele (most of the time), but actually more useful than second or third warrior in balanced party.

But, well, I’m not a pro dungeon speed runner. I’m doing dungeons pretty efficient with my guildies, and don’t have too many problems with fractals, since we’re running pretty balanced parties.

We fell into the trap of “big numbers” and lack of dps meter. People still think warrior is better than anything else because of hb. But actually they’re not best dps class, they’re just easier to play than ele and thief.

We actually already know all the engie strengths. The real problem with engies right now in the meta is:

1) Very few people actually play engie. That’s true in both pugs (FT Juggernaut “might stacker” engie lolol) and “pro” speedruns (look up the rT “Guangway” run on Youtube). It’s the same issue as Rangers being considered bad in practice even though most people acknowledge they are theoretically good.

2) Vuln stacking is highly relative to the rest of the comp since unlike might, it multiples damage output by a flat percentage. A might-stacker in a pug gives a decent boost to a zerk and a massive one to a pug in Magi or something. On the other hand vuln is multiplicative so it will have relatively little effect on pugs who aren’t dealing any damage to begin with.

3) Most speedrun groups already spec to stack some vuln (usually via FGS with Weak Spot/Rending Strikes/Sundering Strikes). The engie basically takes over the role but that means that the other classes have to change their specs from vuln stacking to straight DPS. A lot of people forget to do this so the result is that you’re bringing an engie for vuln but not actually getting any extra vuln or DPS out of it cause the rest of the party is already specced for max vuln stacks.

“Want a “difficult” video game, go play battletoads, but personally I don’t find that kind of difficult entertaining.”

YES!!! +10,00 times YES!. That and Iron Sword and Contra (without the code).
INFINITLY harder than ANY game they could possibly produce today.

Engies stack the most vuln for sure, but in a 30 second fight they average 25 vuln against trash mobs and 12-13 vuln on bosses. That means the remaining 4 people have to contribute 12 vuln which is 3 each.

A typically warrior can add 6 vuln. Guardian vuln is negligible. That least 6 vuln. Eles with weak spot bring about 3 each. So even with an engie everyone has to spec for vuln.

This game has failed to defeat the trinity

/thread

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

I’d like to start by saying thank you to the various guilds for the effort involved in organising the event and for participating. Additionally there is no denying the skill displayed, in reflexes, game knowledge and muscle memory.

Having said that, the number of viewers wasn’t spectacular. Placing the viewer counts, forum commentators and Anet financial reports side by side I draw two conclusions.
A) Proportionally, the forums are more vocal about competitive pve than the wider player base.
B) The amount of players interested in competitive pve is very small compared to the overall player base. If this were false, either the pve tournament viewer counts would be higher or the Anet financial reports would paint a much different and darker picture.

Once again I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to talk down what you achieved or how you play the game, just that I can understand why this scene isn’t Anet’s top priority.

The viewer numbers arent much better at pvp tournaments.

fadeaway.2807:

maha.7902:

PvE is not an esport

And yet we had a tournament a few days ago.

I’d like to start by saying thank you to the various guilds for the effort involved in organising the event and for participating. Additionally there is no denying the skill displayed, in reflexes, game knowledge and muscle memory.

Having said that, the number of viewers wasn’t spectacular. Placing the viewer counts, forum commentators and Anet financial reports side by side I draw two conclusions.
A) Proportionally, the forums are more vocal about competitive pve than the wider player base.
B) The amount of players interested in competitive pve is very small compared to the overall player base. If this were false, either the pve tournament viewer counts would be higher or the Anet financial reports would paint a much different and darker picture.

Once again I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to talk down what you achieved or how you play the game, just that I can understand why this scene isn’t Anet’s top priority.

We didn’t even bribe people with finishers and precursors and were able to get 1,500 viewers.

I had to make sure that forum regulars, my guildies, friends, family and relatives made up 1,200 of the viewers and the rest was random bystanders and reddit users. Of course, we had such a pretty small viewer counts to actually claim PvE is a thing in this game. Completely agree.

The viewer count is actually surprisingly good for a community driven event. Btw how many people watched the Tournament of Legends?

The last ToL peaked around 4k viewers IIRC

Jerus.4350:

I should have said no Reaction based gameplay video game is all that successful if they push the difficulty too high. And that’s what GW2 is, it’sa bout active defense, which is about reading and reacting. Strategy games like Civ of course are a different beast.

Halo serie is quite known for its good PvE gameplay.
Expecially the AI.

Simply most mmorpg still have the same AI of first videogames.
I suspect some bosses are even more stupid than pac man ghosts.

LordByron.8369:

Jerus.4350:

I should have said no Reaction based gameplay video game is all that successful if they push the difficulty too high. And that’s what GW2 is, it’sa bout active defense, which is about reading and reacting. Strategy games like Civ of course are a different beast.

Halo serie is quite known for its good PvE gameplay.
Expecially the AI.

Simply most mmorpg still have the same AI of first videogames.
I suspect some bosses are even more stupid than pac man ghosts.

Which has difficulty scales starting from pretty darn easy to pretty darn tough. I really don’t see that as any different from going full PVT in GW2 to naked solo runs. /shrug But, I’ll admit I haven’t played the latest Halos, I’m more a CoD guy for my FPS.

Yeah, and now shirev is going to come in and wreck house its bs. 5 war meta is so boring.

“Oh look, a new thread on the front page. Wonder who necro’d this one.”

:( i just wanted to be an elitist like everyone else

The first post about thieves having terrible dps and bringing nothing a dps group would want was a slight giveaway.

haha don’t forget those eles dragging the party down.