Guild Wars 2

maybe its just me but i think an instance which takes roughly 1hour to do with a good team should bring higher reward for the 1hour of insanely hard gameplay compared to an instance taking roughly 15min with easy mode turned up at 200%.

maybe i am just wierd that way but when i complete a dungeon it annoyes me that the reward is so incredibly bad compared to just running easy mode getting 4 times the reward/hour while it is incredibly easy to do in comparison…

i would say there is two balancing factors in rewarding, 1 is difficulty (the harder it is the more reward) another is “time needed” the more time you need to even get rewarded the higher the reward at the end.

now if we look at these arah is vastly more difficult then cof will ever be and it doesnt bring any extra reward for this.
arah takes 4 times as long and it brings no extra reward for this…

so in conclusion the reward of cof is either WAY!!!!! too high and need serious beating untill the nerf bat breaks, or the difficulty need crazy increase or the time it takes needs to be multiplied by 4+ times what it is now, or a mix of of these.

this is my thought on the matter…

its easy to see which dungeons are WAY too easy compared to their reward when looking at the groups which is made these days… some balancing to either equelize time used/difficulty or change the loot stats of said items so that they reward it correctly.

you can not get the nice looking arah gear from doing anything but arah. you want stats go to the TP and done in 4min with full zerk gear or w/e else you want.

you want the skin, you need to put the time in.

I agree. Arah armour should grant more defense, more crit damage, more power and more precision with divinity runes.

No the stats should be the same, what you guys want is basically the argument against ascended gear. No one should be forced to run Arah for the best stats, only the look if they want it.

There’s a sense of prestige in having Arah gear, if you see someone with a full set you know they did it for the challenge and not so much for the stats. Besides having the skin is good enough, I’ve had people take one look at my character in pugs and have said they were glad to have a good player in the run.

You’re taking a look at the dungeon armor the wrong way, people don’t do dungeons for the stats for the most part but rather the looks. If you want a look you have to do that dungeon.

Rewards do need balancing though, doing CoF path 1 repeatedly is more profitable and faster than running any Arah path. Also Arah doesn’t drop lodestones.

Lyer.1905:

No the stats should be the same, what you guys want is basically the argument against ascended gear. No one should be forced to run Arah for the best stats, only the look if they want it.

There’s a sense of prestige in having Arah gear, if you see someone with a full set you know they did it for the challenge and not so much for the stats. Besides having the skin is good enough, I’ve had people take one look at my character in pugs and have said they were glad to have a good player in the run.

But you have to grind fotm for better jewelry, so why shouldn’t you be forced to grind the hardest dungeon for the best armour/weapons?

haviz.1340:

Lyer.1905:

No the stats should be the same, what you guys want is basically the argument against ascended gear. No one should be forced to run Arah for the best stats, only the look if they want it.

There’s a sense of prestige in having Arah gear, if you see someone with a full set you know they did it for the challenge and not so much for the stats. Besides having the skin is good enough, I’ve had people take one look at my character in pugs and have said they were glad to have a good player in the run.

But you have to grind fotm for better jewelry, so why shouldn’t you be forced to grind the hardest dungeon for the best armour/weapons?

With the introduction of laurels, you don’t need to enter FotM to get Ascended Rings.

haviz.1340:

Lyer.1905:

No the stats should be the same, what you guys want is basically the argument against ascended gear. No one should be forced to run Arah for the best stats, only the look if they want it.

There’s a sense of prestige in having Arah gear, if you see someone with a full set you know they did it for the challenge and not so much for the stats. Besides having the skin is good enough, I’ve had people take one look at my character in pugs and have said they were glad to have a good player in the run.

But you have to grind fotm for better jewelry, so why shouldn’t you be forced to grind the hardest dungeon for the best armour/weapons?

No.

Ascended and FotM was a change from the original game design, which is part of the reason it’s caused so many issues with the rest of the game and with many players. The whole point of GW1 was horizontal progression. People who were skilled got to look awesome, people who weren’t didn’t, but everyone could get the same stats so that no one was left out of a game they paid for. Introducing new gear tiers and starting a gear treadmill threw that out the window, and there are still many GW2 players mad about it today.

If you want to grind for best stats, there are many games that do that. Grinding for best looks is what GW2 does instead, and it works pretty well, just check out all the threads of players trying to make a legendary or get Infinite light.

Lyer.1905:

No the stats should be the same, what you guys want is basically the argument against ascended gear. No one should be forced to run Arah for the best stats, only the look if they want it.

There’s a sense of prestige in having Arah gear, if you see someone with a full set you know they did it for the challenge and not so much for the stats. Besides having the skin is good enough, I’ve had people take one look at my character in pugs and have said they were glad to have a good player in the run.

well get me right i dont want alot extra, just 1 more power, 1 more pre and 1% crit or something minor like that would be enough to make it feel like at least you got something even though its minimum its still something for your hard work compared to easy mode.

Enemies should insta die if they hit you while wearing full Arah armor.

Erebus.7568:

Lyer.1905:

No the stats should be the same, what you guys want is basically the argument against ascended gear. No one should be forced to run Arah for the best stats, only the look if they want it.

There’s a sense of prestige in having Arah gear, if you see someone with a full set you know they did it for the challenge and not so much for the stats. Besides having the skin is good enough, I’ve had people take one look at my character in pugs and have said they were glad to have a good player in the run.

well get me right i dont want alot extra, just 1 more power, 1 more pre and 1% crit or something minor like that would be enough to make it feel like at least you got something even though its minimum its still something for your hard work compared to easy mode.

You did get something. You got the armor/weapons/Gift of Zhaitan that you wanted.

Nihilus.3015:

Enemies should insta die if they hit you while wearing full Arah armor.

That’s a great suggestion. All risens should die when they hit you.

You don’t run Arah for the stats. You want Rabid or Berserker? Run TA or CoF.
You run Arah to say you ran it and to look like a bamf. You should not get better stats for running it. You get some sort of respect, and that’s enough. If Arah is not giving you enough reward, don’t run it.
In Guild Wars, you shouldn’t have to grind a dungeon to get better gear. You CAN grind a dungeon to get exotics if you want, but you don’t have to. Arah gear should not have better stats. That’s just ridiculous. Plus, you can run an Arah path in about half an hour if you know what you’re doing. :P

Heylo.4938:

You don’t run Arah for the stats. You want Rabid or Berserker? Run TA or CoF.
You run Arah to say you ran it and to look like a bamf. You should not get better stats for running it. You get some sort of respect, and that’s enough. If Arah is not giving you enough reward, don’t run it.
In Guild Wars, you shouldn’t have to grind a dungeon to get better gear. You CAN grind a dungeon to get exotics if you want, but you don’t have to. Arah gear should not have better stats. That’s just ridiculous. Plus, you can run an Arah path in about half an hour if you know what you’re doing. :P

If you know what you’re doing you should run it in 15 minutes.

haviz.1340:

Heylo.4938:

You don’t run Arah for the stats. You want Rabid or Berserker? Run TA or CoF.
You run Arah to say you ran it and to look like a bamf. You should not get better stats for running it. You get some sort of respect, and that’s enough. If Arah is not giving you enough reward, don’t run it.
In Guild Wars, you shouldn’t have to grind a dungeon to get better gear. You CAN grind a dungeon to get exotics if you want, but you don’t have to. Arah gear should not have better stats. That’s just ridiculous. Plus, you can run an Arah path in about half an hour if you know what you’re doing. :P

If you know what you’re doing you should run it in 15 minutes.

not without exploiting, but with that logic you can run it in 5min by teleporting through the wall or simply just hack it and do it in 2 min -.-
(and you can’t grind dungeons in general, only very few is grindable because of the hardcore nerf to the reward when finishing it more than once a day)

(i do not believe you can ever run arah in 15min if you actually kill the bosses.) but discussing the exact time limit of actually running it is not what we are here for any sain person can agree that arah take vastly longer time then cof:
now that this is settled.

armor skins and what you find the best looking is purely subjective and what i find awesome looking is not the same as every one else find cool.
Some may think the cof set looks awesome since you can model it into the look of a blight wizard, others may find the arah mask (female) or the heavy armor to be crazily ugly, it’s a pure matter of preference.
Now that this is settled.

So we can agree that:
1: some dungeons take VASTLY longer to complete and is VASTLY harder in every encounter.

2: which look people prefer and think is “coolest” is 100% subjective and its very different depending on class armor and on gender.
so saying “some dungeons should take longer and be harder than others because the look of that armor is simply cooler and looks better” is just not correct and makes absolutely no sense.

so when agreeing on these simple things which any thinking person would be able to understand why is it then that some people’s preference in look punish them severely when it comes to acquiring said look?.
the armors doesn’t have more “sparkling effects” etc or “prestige” status etc. which makes up for this, so i do feel like the armors which is vastly harder to get and takes vastly longer time to acquire should have some kind of bonus if only a minor 0,1% overall stats increase, just to reward the player a minimum for actually completing the hard and time consuming stuff.

Such an increase is still so minor that it would in no way touch or limit the balance of other gear, it would merely be a reward to give a feeling that you didn’t get completely screwed over by the system.

Erebus.7568:

Snipped

I agree that some dungeons punish people for thinking the armor is cool. Arah is a difficult dungeon and a lot of people want that armor. I still don’t think it should have a stat upgrade. Maybe the armor pieces should cost less tokens.
For awhile, not sure if they changed it or not, AC armor pieces were cheaper than all the other dungeons. My dungeon group told me it was because the dungeon was easier than others. That made 0 sense to me. If the dungeon is easier, why make the pieces cost less?!
The first time I ran Arah, we went in blind. Stupid on our part, but whatever. We spent 4 hours, 2 on Lupicus, and left with 3 tokens. It is a difficult dungeon to master, and the majority of paths take quite a long time, especially if you’re still getting a feel for it and don’t use any exploits. I will not be blinking through walls, so the 15 minute path is not for me.
I hope that they consider lowering the armor prices on dungeons that take a significant amount of time to complete. I could have a full set of CoF armor in 2 days with 4 hours of farming a day (4 80s to run all paths on), but doing that on Arah in two days is nearly impossible. I don’t even know if I could complete the paths on my 4 80s before reset, since you have to take a break in between for DR to disappear.

Erebus.7568:

not without exploiting, but with that logic you can run it in 5min by teleporting through the wall or simply just hack it and do it in 2 min -.-
(and you can’t grind dungeons in general, only very few is grindable because of the hardcore nerf to the reward when finishing it more than once a day)

(i do not believe you can ever run arah in 15min if you actually kill the bosses.) but discussing the exact time limit of actually running it is not what we are here for any sain person can agree that arah take vastly longer time then cof:
now that this is settled.

You again with your exploits aka dodges. I’ve done p3 with 2 random pickups in ~17 minutes so it’s doable in 15 minutes with decent people. As a proof, here’s the guides from Strifey, he’s done path 1 in 21 minutes, path 2 in 24 minutes and path 3 in 18 minutes. If you still think it’s impossible, try running more offensive builds instead of “support” and “tanks”. I don’t see how 3 arah paths doable in ~20 minutes are vastly longer than two paths in cof that take 5-10 and 15 minutes respectively.

haviz.1340:

Erebus.7568:

not without exploiting, but with that logic you can run it in 5min by teleporting through the wall or simply just hack it and do it in 2 min -.-
(and you can’t grind dungeons in general, only very few is grindable because of the hardcore nerf to the reward when finishing it more than once a day)

(i do not believe you can ever run arah in 15min if you actually kill the bosses.) but discussing the exact time limit of actually running it is not what we are here for any sain person can agree that arah take vastly longer time then cof:
now that this is settled.

You again with your exploits aka dodges. I’ve done p3 with 2 random pickups in ~17 minutes so it’s doable in 15 minutes with decent people. As a proof, here’s the guides from Strifey, he’s done path 1 in 21 minutes, path 2 in 24 minutes and path 3 in 18 minutes. If you still think it’s impossible, try running more offensive builds instead of “support” and “tanks”. I don’t see how 3 arah paths doable in ~20 minutes are vastly longer than two paths in cof that take 5-10 and 15 minutes respectively.

you ignore everything else in the post which is actually the importent of this one so i will just say to this PUGS!!!!! was mentioned at the very start.
this is full premade(perfect opness on classes as well for it btw).. and 20+ is NOT 15min!!!! and they are exploiting and simply ignoring half the boss fight and running pass the rest as mentioned you can just teleport or hack and you will be done in 2-5min, but actually doing the full run as it was intended is a completely other story ^^
now do please keep to the subject instead of discussing how fast it can be run by very few specific pro groups

Erebus.7568:

you ignore everything else in the post which is actually the importent of this one so i will just say to this PUGS!!!!! was mentioned at the very start.
this is full premade(perfect opness on classes as well for it btw).. and 20+ is NOT 15min!!!! and they are exploiting and simply ignoring half the boss fight and running pass the rest as mentioned you can just teleport or hack and you will be done in 2-5min, but actually doing the full run as it was intended is a completely other story ^^
now do please keep to the subject instead of discussing how fast it can be run by very few specific pro groups

And I did mentioned that we had random pickups and no exploits (excluding dodge-exploits but we can’t survive without it) were used.

I didn’t know that skipping through trash mobs, being super efficient at killing things, and running dodging attacks were considered exploiting. Must be that “theres no way you can run that fast, you must be exploiting” without even watching the video thing…

Erebus.7568:

but actually doing the full run as it was intended is a completely other story

A story never told :P
(srsly you expect people that go there for the tokens to kill trash mobs?)

Erebus.7568;

Snipped

Skipping trash is not an exploit. Skipping trash in path 3 for an inexperienced group took us from 4 hours to a little over an hour (It was our second time through and our builds weren’t quite perfect).
If you want tokens, you run as fast as you can. I think that PuGs can go either way. You may get an experienced person, or you’ll get a horrible person. It’s a gamble.

okey let me try this again:
even with the VERY fastest groups for arah p3 (no doubt the fastest part), it’s no where near as fast as the fast groups of cof p1.
same for the other paths.
this should really not be a discussion, it is pretty logic and else its simply just join a speed run/experienced players p1 cof, then do a p3 speedrun/experienced players and time them and see the huge difference, some in difficulty.

so again when this is set, i really don’t feel like its a well design that there is such a huge % difference in time and difficulty of doing arah in comparison which in return makes the reward for cof greatly higher and much better time wise, which is what i think is wrong with it.

Erebus.7568:

okey let me try this again:
even with the VERY fastest groups for arah p3 (no doubt the fastest part), it’s no where near as fast as the fast groups of cof p1.
same for the other paths.
this should really not be a discussion, it is pretty logic and else its simply just join a speed run/experienced players p1 cof, then do a p3 speedrun/experienced players and time them and see the huge difference, some in difficulty.

so again when this is set, i really don’t feel like its a well design that there is such a huge % difference in time and difficulty of doing arah in comparison which in return makes the reward for cof greatly higher and much better time wise, which is what i think is wrong with it.

Two things :
- The reward for Arah is the skin. The appearance of the armor / weapons. Actual stats should not be any better than any other dungeon. This is something that was supposed to be at the heart of GW2 until Ascended. If you’re not happy with this, then do the content just for fun, unless you don’t enjoy it, in which case don’t do it.

- CoF Path 1 needs to be both harder and longer. At the moment, it’s the most effortless dungeon as well as the fastest, and yet it’s a higher level. It needs to be around the same length / difficulty as Path 3. There’s a lot that needs to change in it (not going through it here), but in short it needs to depend on more than just a big bucket of damage.

Ninth Requiem.3250:

Erebus.7568:

okey let me try this again:
even with the VERY fastest groups for arah p3 (no doubt the fastest part), it’s no where near as fast as the fast groups of cof p1.
same for the other paths.
this should really not be a discussion, it is pretty logic and else its simply just join a speed run/experienced players p1 cof, then do a p3 speedrun/experienced players and time them and see the huge difference, some in difficulty.

so again when this is set, i really don’t feel like its a well design that there is such a huge % difference in time and difficulty of doing arah in comparison which in return makes the reward for cof greatly higher and much better time wise, which is what i think is wrong with it.

Two things :
- The reward for Arah is the skin. The appearance of the armor / weapons. Actual stats should not be any better than any other dungeon. This is something that was supposed to be at the heart of GW2 until Ascended. If you’re not happy with this, then do the content just for fun, unless you don’t enjoy it, in which case don’t do it.

- CoF Path 1 needs to be both harder and longer. At the moment, it’s the most effortless dungeon as well as the fastest, and yet it’s a higher level. It needs to be around the same length / difficulty as Path 3. There’s a lot that needs to change in it (not going through it here), but in short it needs to depend on more than just a big bucket of damage.

1: already adressed this. skin is NOT a reward which can be masuared in “skin a is worth more then skin b” since its 100% personal preference and its based on class, genda, and personal desires.
i personally used the full arah on one of my chars (lets just say it took some time to get) while i used 15silver on the set look i wanted and thought looked the best on another char… trying to set a “price” on basic set looks with no extra “prestige” or speciality to it is not durable (or not logical).

2. there is several paths in different dungeons which is of VERY different in length and difficulty, but the rewards are in no way reflected in neither lenght nor difficulty of the instance. while i do believe that there shouldn’t be a high reward diffirence i still do believe that the harder stuff should yield a minimum extra bonus for completing something particularly hard.
as it is now it really does seem unrewarding and you really do feel punished for being class x, or genda x, etc which could make you want a specific look over another (or very rewarded if you are lucky and want one from the easy to farm once.)

i find that it would be nice with a bit more balance between “risk/reward” at this point

Arah gear should be changed retroactively to ascended status, considering how hard that dungeon is.

haviz.1340:

Arah gear should be changed retroactively to ascended status, considering how hard that dungeon is.

well preferable YES!!!
i mean you get ascended gear from doing dayli’s -.- it seems like stats/gear rarety have nothing to with how “hard” the content is to do :/ which i think is wrong.

It would be nice if all dungeons/paths were loot scaled to the difficulty. In the general and specific sense.

Examples:
CoF should give less loot then arah.
CoF p1 should give less loot than p3.
TA F/U Should give more tokens than F/F or U/U and more tokens in general then AC