(edited by Taerik.3405)
come on u need to calm down on dungeon difficulty
1 2
exactly, and i hope they are getting this right when they add content to the game. it was unanimous since beta that this game while great in many ways, was one of the most unrewarding experiences as far as loot goes. don’t even know why it launched like this. the whole economy excuse is just insulting too. they take no actions against players who amass a few thousand(yes) gold by turning beaded items into precursors. they go fix that bug, naturally expected but do not try to fix the damage done(these were ill gotten gains via exploiting, and FAR more harmful tot he game than the karma vendor fiasco so ban these guys too or ask them to sac their thousand gold on crap and proceed to destroy said crap). those rich players buy up all precursors and now sell them for ten times what they were two weeks ago…but OH THE ECONOMY WILL BE RUINED IF YOU GOT SOME DECENT kitten OUT OF A DUNGEON RUN!
Personally, I find the dungeons to be easy. All you need is group communication! Some dungeons require more time, or a learning curve for some fights/events in the dungeon.
Also, stop building a glass cannon build and/or high damage with no toughness/vitality! The longer you survive, the better you are to the group. If you are downed all the time, you’re making the dungeon harder for yourself and your group since they have to waste their time trying to get you up constantly.
As for the loot, I find the loot very bad. I understand running dungeons give you tokens for, basically, free exotics, but there are no other incentive for running a dungeon. I rarely get a rare with over 60%+ MF. Most of the time I salvage the rare to get ecto’s. I find you get enough money from just completing the dungeons. At least the devs recognize the dungeon loot problem.
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
rickets 80 elementalist
crickits 80 ranger
crickets 80 warrior – current main
crickits 80 ranger
crickets 80 warrior – current main
“If the answer is, “No, there are small things that I would like changed,” then state them. Help the developers make Guild Wars 2 a game you can play for years to come.”
With pleasure:
1) The tip of the loot bell curve should be greens with no MF%. Whites would essentially be a critical failure and exotics a critical success, maybe only make exotics drop in the final chest.
2) Trash needs, on avg, a 20% decrease in HP. Some places it’s fine, bomb golems in CoE, some places its broken, defend event in CoF.
3) A select few bosses need either: buffing, nerfing, bux fixes, or additional mechanics.
4) Better NPC AI…I swear to god if Hodgins dies in the fire trap or pulls one more graveling pack…also that CoE agent NPC at the beginning. Who decided it’d be a great idea to have to race her to pull the mobs?
5) Champions and bosses dropping silver! implement this universally, not just AC. Yes, I’ll gladly take 5 more silver from a mob that 1 shots you and has a metric kittenton of health.
6)Karma! It makes no sense to have a glorified event chain that doesn’t reward it.
Kretna 80 Elementalist
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
Kretna 80 Elementalist
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
Firstly I apologize if I annoy some people with what I’m about to say (but I am speaking this out of personal experience)
Most of the people who complain about dungeons being hard are those who equip the 120+% of magic find gear (if you are not one of these people, then this post doesnt apply to you. However, I found dungeons extremely hard when I had magic find gear on and when I stopped using them I found them to be much easier)
honestly, theres a reason why all the magic find equipment comes with power and precision. high damage + no hp bonus = boss will go for you. The game mechanic is designed (or so ive heard) for the mobs to go after the players with the least hp and most damage.
I run dungeons with my guardian (specced with sword and shield and a lot of tanky+ supporting skills) and when the boss completely ignores me, walks 3/4 across the area to 2 hit kill some guy in my party only to have him complain about why the boss is attacking him and he keeps dying well... lets just say it gets annoying. I wont lie I do equip some magic find on my character but I limit it to a superior sigil of luck and MF foods to avoid being a liability to my team
With pleasure:
1) The tip of the loot bell curve should be greens with no MF%. Whites would essentially be a critical failure and exotics a critical success, maybe only make exotics drop in the final chest.
Can definitely agree on that. I would go as far to say make one rare per chest.
2) Trash needs, on avg, a 20% decrease in HP. Some places it’s fine, bomb golems in CoE, some places its broken, defend event in CoF.
That would be fine. Trash on some parts are fine others aren’t. I am more concerned with events that have bosses with HUGE hp + adds (looking at you HoTW Plunder quaggans + boss). But magg event is annoying, and I have always hated “DPS check” fights as they are uninteresting and involve no interesting mechanics other than DPSDPSDPS and live.
3) A select few bosses need either: buffing, nerfing, bux fixes, or additional mechanics.
yup yup.
4) Better NPC AI…I swear to god if Hodgins dies in the fire trap or pulls one more graveling pack…also that CoE agent NPC at the beginning. Who decided it’d be a great idea to have to race her to pull the mobs?
this This THIS. Whoever the dev imagined “hey lets make ALL dungeons a REALLY long escort mission” needs to rethink that a bit.
In EM we don’t like AI. Were not interested in their quotes. We want a dungeon that isn’t going to freak out with AI training you, screwing up scripts, or acting dumb. REMOVE them or make them non-agro/non-allied NPC’s. Their DPS isn’t going to make a difference and we waste time rezzing them.
And yes we DO kill them on purpose a lot. /rant off
5) Champions and bosses dropping silver! implement this universally, not just AC. Yes, I’ll gladly take 5 more silver from a mob that 1 shots you and has a metric kittenton of health.
Yup
6)Karma! It makes no sense to have a glorified event chain that doesn’t reward it.
Would be nice. Kinda odd we get weird DE inside dungeons with XP/coin yet no karma.
Sorry quoting is broken. Disregard i read CoF not CoE ….reading fail. yea CoE P1 in 20 minutes would be something quite epic…lol.
“rickets.1386:
Sojou.2067:
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait."
rickets 80 elementalist
crickits 80 ranger
crickets 80 warrior – current main
crickits 80 ranger
crickets 80 warrior – current main
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
I’ll fraps our next run, it certainly wasn’t significantly longer than 20.
OP seems like a typical MMO player that’s used to only spam right click.
Dungeons are easy. Too easy IMO.
Only punctual things like the lava boss on front door path of CoE are annoying and that’s because it takes too long, not because it’s hard.
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
I’ll fraps our next run, it certainly wasn’t significantly longer than 20.
Whoo! If you pull this off, I’ll be in awe. Best of luck.
Kretna 80 Elementalist
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
It was a typo – I was talking about SE path 1. I don’t even know why I mentioned CoE.
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
I’ll fraps our next run, it certainly wasn’t significantly longer than 20.
Whoo! If you pull this off, I’ll be in awe. Best of luck.
~16 minutes total. We did pretty poorly on laser and Jormag charged the NPC once or twice, it was our first attempt at a pseudo-speed run tho, hopefully next time will be much better.
Just like any Game there will be a learning curve at first and I agree the Dungeons are hard. But, I think that with a few minor things Dungeons would be something everyone would want to try. With there being no agro tables it can be hard for everyone to know that they are about to get smashed. One of the things that could be a great help, since there is no “Tank”, is if they would give players some form of Crowd Control. When there is three to four mobs running arround it can be overwhelming, expically when you can pull agro off anyone. I am not sure if this is true at higher levels, I have only done AC and CM. Give us CC or water down group pulls….
GW1=speed clears, cus people dont have time(work/school/nagging parent’s/Partners), same has been brought 2 this game(SC’s), and it just seem’s consistent in MMO’s at that.
With there being no agro tables it can be hard for everyone to know that they are about to get smashed. One of the things that could be a great help, since there is no “Tank”, is if they would give players some form of Crowd Control.
100% agree, it’d help im WvWvW aswell,, but, i think it was designed b’cuz invisibility.
It amazes me how many gamers just want everything handed to them. Maximum loot, low difficulty, fast runs, …
Put a bit more effort into the game and a bit less into whining on the forums about every little thing you don’t like in the game and you might get somewhere.
As I already stated dungeons are fine right now, just we need improved chest/boss drops. And Anet already said that the next dungeon patch will get those.
It’s true that story mode usually are harder than exp modes.
Krulz – Guardian –
~Piken Square~
~Piken Square~
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
I’ll fraps our next run, it certainly wasn’t significantly longer than 20.
Whoo! If you pull this off, I’ll be in awe. Best of luck.
~16 minutes total. We did pretty poorly on laser and Jormag charged the NPC once or twice, it was our first attempt at a pseudo-speed run tho, hopefully next time will be much better.
I lol’d at the laser trap. I also can’t stand it when someone gives me swiftness while doing that part. Makes it easier to mess up.
I’m going to chime in on this thread. I’ve completed a total of 4 story mode dungeons and that did it for me. The better part of those 4 story dungeons were spent trying to zerg trash down. We had more difficulities with snipers and 2/3 shotting wizards/sorc groups than with bosses. The trash is simply not tuned correctly. This put a huge sour taste in my mouth to the point where I just simply refused to help guildies complete dungeons. No drops, subpar gold gains after repairs and all headaches.
I’m sure now that we’re all fully exotic and have a better understanding of our classes, we would do better than before. But guess what, none of us want nor need to do dungeons. There is no difficulty progression and a lot of players feel like it’s D3, Act II Inferno, stupid hard. I loved dungeons/raiding in EQ2, Lotro, Rift, SWTOR and Secret World. This actually the first MMO that I’ve played where I was just like… NO.
I’m guessing that this is maybe how the majority of people who dislike or complain about dungeons feel. I could care less if they fix this or not, I have no stake in the results. BUT, if it is driving good players and potentially good players away from the game it is cause for immediate change.
I love the game and the concept of these dungeons are wonderful. Unfortunately the implementation is absolute poo. Every single one of them, story or explore mode is a rehash of the same thing. Crowds of mobs with CC / conditions that you really can’t control or handle other than take it like a man and try to win the war of attrition. The bosses are all equally the same, either boring stand there and kill it fights with nothing interesting happening, or WTF 1 shot fests and huge run back zergs so the boss doesn’t reset.
The dungeons need love, a lot of love. There need to be rewards for running them other than tokens and a handful of silver. Chests should actually drop good loot, not just be a garbage can full of crap that you go and throw away in another garbage can.
More importantly, the fights themselves need to be reworked, dang near all of them. 1 shot mechanics is a lazy devs way of working something. Dodging a red circle, sure fine. that’s part of the game but to make it the end all be all in EVERY encounter is just weak minded development. There’s a fine line between challenge and hard. People enjoy challenges, people avoid hard.
Wish i could melee with my warrior :/
Dont have any chance to melee in dungeons.
These dungeons are NOT HARD at all. Maybe in a random PUG its hard but for PUG its hard for everything, thats the nature of random groups.
I dont think people understand the loot system in this game, what “better loot” do you all want? I get like a gold+ and 180 tokens from doing a dungeon daily. Its easy money and is pretty fun. All exotics are the SAME STATS, do you want dungeons to drop better gear so you feel better about yourselves?
When people complain about exploits its like they dont play any other game ever. In WoW all people do is try to find any little exploit possible to skip dungeon encounters, In EQ people used to glitch themselves through the doors that you needed keys for all the time.
About the only criticism that makes sense is that too many of the bosses are just tank and spank but I understand that you cannot make every fight unique mechanic wise. Each path has at least one boss thats interesting and thats fine by me.
Also to people who complain about “difficulty progression” you realize every exotic is just a horizontal upgrade right? GW2 loot is mostly about cosmetics so if they made the later dungeons like Arah markedly harder then you would all QQ about how it gives the same gear.
Wish i could melee with my warrior :/
Dont have any chance to melee in dungeons.
I melee just fine, there are few fights where you really dont want to melee
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
I’ll fraps our next run, it certainly wasn’t significantly longer than 20.
Whoo! If you pull this off, I’ll be in awe. Best of luck.
~16 minutes total. We did pretty poorly on laser and Jormag charged the NPC once or twice, it was our first attempt at a pseudo-speed run tho, hopefully next time will be much better.
4 Guardians and 1 Warrior do not make a good group to compare to any other set up. That is pretty much the perfect dungeon makeup. I am seriously impressed, at the same time I’d like to see you match that time if you had 1 of 5 different classes in the group. Other classes aren’t quite as survivable.
Also to people who complain about “difficulty progression” you realize every exotic is just a horizontal upgrade right? GW2 loot is mostly about cosmetics so if they made the later dungeons like Arah markedly harder then you would all QQ about how it gives the same gear.
We’re not on the same page with what “difficulty progression” means.
The first time you do Story Mode AC at level 30-35, it should be the easiest dungeon experience there is. Period. However, that is totally not the case. Trash aggro mechanics and damage is to high and to random. Boss mobs, yes, should require time and effort to defeat. The first 5 trash encounters on the first dungeon in the game should not result in me dying 10+ times.
People sitting for 20 minutes in CoE path 1 waiting for all the trash to despawn.
Do/did people really do this?! Seriously P1 takes like 15 to 20 minutes tops for my group to finish and we kill everything.
I’d REALLY like to see this. 3 minutes on each alpha fight, perfect laser run, all 5 security locks at the same time, and Bjarl the Rampager never having Scales of Jormag, ever.
No really…I want a video…I’ll wait.
I’ll fraps our next run, it certainly wasn’t significantly longer than 20.
Whoo! If you pull this off, I’ll be in awe. Best of luck.
~16 minutes total. We did pretty poorly on laser and Jormag charged the NPC once or twice, it was our first attempt at a pseudo-speed run tho, hopefully next time will be much better.
Absolutely astonishing. I noticed you left out the trash at the start but that couldn’t have taken more than a couple minutes. A flawless run could be even quicker. I am seriously in awe, good show mate. Hope DR didn’t hit you too hard.
Kretna 80 Elementalist
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
ex – The Midnight Syndicate [Dark]
Maguuma
4 Guardians and 1 Warrior do not make a good group to compare to any other set up. That is pretty much the perfect dungeon makeup. I am seriously impressed, at the same time I’d like to see you match that time if you had 1 of 5 different classes in the group. Other classes aren’t quite as survivable.
I honestly just grabbed the first few friends that were online at that point, our static setup has a little more variation than that :P
That path is surprisingly light on damage output. Not going to lie, majority melee group does make most dungeons easier. I’d imagine the absolute perfect setup for that path would be 3+ Warriors with hammer guardian + w/e class thrown in, nothing really matches warrior in damage output.
Absolutely astonishing. I noticed you left out the trash at the start but that couldn’t have taken more than a couple minutes. A flawless run could be even quicker. I am seriously in awe, good show mate. Hope DR didn’t hit you too hard.
Thanks! its a fun something to aim for.
Hopefully Anet releases some sort of timed challenges/global scoreboard, as I’d imagine most players would be bored with the limited PvE content within a few months.
It’s a pretty straightforward problem. Trash has too much health, so trash fights are tedious; trash deals too much damage and on packs with seven silvers you can’t watch them all for dodges, so the risk isn’t worth the reward.
Bosses suffer from similar problems, most of them having only one attack but enough health to ensure a 5-15 (!) minute fight. So you fall asleep by the time the enemy hits 90% health, and the fight never changes…at least bosses are generally easier than trash, though a random few are so out of whack (mostly story mode bosses, too, like the second of three golems in SE Story) that you just sit there and ask, what the heck?
Add token drops to trash. Divide up maybe 20-30% of the dungeon-clear tokens to the bosses before the last one, so groups that fall apart get something. Add karma rewards to each “event” in a dungeon. Problem solved.
I’ve played dungeons with my guildmates/friends and while I personally can say that combatwise the game is pretty balanced. Now I can’t say the same for the rather cheap mechanics or just down right flawed design of some of events in there.
Take for example the weird pillow and spike room in CM, the fire orb hallway in CoF, and the Magg fire extinguisher run. It’s those that feel to me weren’t really thought out well enough. One is just a cheap way to kill you and the is just bad execution as the npc ai is just flawed.
“Oh hey guys lets give them another GIANT TRENCH COAT, they’ve been wearing them for the past 70 levels BUT I KNOW THEY’RE JUST GONNA LOVE THIS ONE!”
Haha! I love you!!
Though I feel sorry for the majority of medium armour wearers who do not like trench coats. Definitely feel like you’re being forced into a Trench Coats R’ Us store
I have never seen a MMO community go to such great lengths to avoid mechanics in PvE content like I do in this one.
Then you haven’t ever played a MMO seriously. This always happens.
Dungeons are fun, bad people just fail them and try to find an easy way out. That’s normal and the case in all MMOs. Nothing new to see here.
These dungeons are not hard. CoE is even a cake walk once you learn how to fight alpha.
The problem is a lot of them are just not fun and have boring mechanics. Some of the bosses are just HP soakers, that make you fall asleep while dps’ing. Adds that have enormous amounts of hp.
Imo, make the boss fights shorter. But more mechanics, and more difficulty.
I’d also love to see them get rid of waypoint zerging but there would be lot of crying about that one probably.
Also a lot of the events are disappointing. May just be me but I want to fight a boss for loot. Not just events over and over again. Some events are fine, but there seems to be a lot of them to replace bosses. And most of them can be cheesed or are too easy. Takes away that feeling of accomplishment when you kill a boss.
For me I think that it mostly feels too often like when you died there was little recourse for it. Its one thing if I can reflect on my character’s death and say,“Ok, I see now how I could have done that different”, and for sure, I did that alot at first, but in many of the dungeons, it is literally so overtuned and imbalanced that there is not anything I could have done to avoid the death. Like being the only one fighting Alpha when he crystals you then AoE 1/2 shots you. Or mob packs who hit so hard that one or 2 hits kill you dead ( AC’s trash packs I am looking at you!). I am fine with rising to a challenge and learning how to beat a situation, but there seems to be too many situations that just punish you no matter what you do. The only skills required for getting through that is infinite patience and masochistic tendencies. I would love for them to run these dungeons through some serious tuning and balancing passes, not to make them easier, just less cheap in how they challenge players. My thoughts.
My main problem is no way to track aggro and no target of target feature. some bosses will chase one person with no regard for other people. is aggro based on dmg or what? i have no clue. I am happily smacking away and suddenly I’m downed. no chance to try and do anything because I had no way of knowing I was going to get hit. This isn’t always from red circles. some big hits are not telegraphed or are nearly impossible to see through skill spam. fights end up being a series of downs and revives.
when AoEing a group of enemies the other day i went down and up about 4 times in just as many seconds. i found it kind of funny, but i don’t feel like paying 6s because of it.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
I was excited about this game when it came out. People I had played WoW, Rift and SWTOR with had told me that it was slated to be the next great MMO. Thus far I have been unimpressed. I consider myself a casual player due to the fact that RL responsibilities allow me to play 2-3 days per week. To date I have attempted dungeons about 15-20 times, mostly explorable with 3 story modes completed. I have completed exactly 2 explorable modes. Both of those were in PUGs and at least 2 of the people in the party looked to be very well-geared. Having attempted several with guildmates using vent we have been unsuccessful and every group of trash mobs is a wipe. Nobody would consider anyone in my guild to be an elite player but we have managed in other games just fine.
My main problem with the dungeons is that there seems to be no strategy to any of the fights other than the boss fights (and no real strat on those either but once you have their moves down…). I spend most of my time during trash mob encounters running around trying to stay alive until they agro someone else and I can do some damage. Until they reaquire me as their target then its back to running around some more. Not much fun.
Its to the point now where I feel hopeless in running dungeons and I sense the same from my guildmates at times. Flame if you will. This is how I feel about the game. I will play until Rift’s expac comes out. Doubt if I will run many more dungeons though. Zero fun and nothing but repair bills.
IMHO if you do not tone down the trash mobs in the dungeons you will lose the casual players in this game. In my experience in MMOs (dating back to EQ) thats the majority of your player base. The people that play this or any other MMO hours on end are few but seem to set the pace for everyone else. If you feel the dungeons are fine just the way they are then do nothing. I feel as if the game is doomed to failure if you choose that option.
My only real complaint about the dungeons is risk v reward. For the difficulty of some of the trash with a very rare chance of dropping anything worth using / selling / breaking down, if it can be skipped it gets skipped.
The loot tables seriously need to be addressed. Outside of tokens there is absolutely no reason to run them. Getting a white and 1 copper off the final boss in a dungeon should NEVER happen, however it happens all the time. I did all 3 paths of AC explorable last night and received 1 piece of level 80 loot and it was green.. 3 paths, 1 piece of GREEN gear. Yes, I got my 120 tokens and 20 silver and a mash-up of level 30-40 blues and whites. However, for the time spent, not needing any exotic gear I get a better return following the zerg in Orr and it’s not even remotely challenging.
The only reason I’m running dungeons at this point is because I like somewhat challenging content, playing with my friends, and I want a couple pieces for the look. If it weren’t for that I’d probably be watching TV instead.
I noticed too how many groups are now finding ways to simply avoid or run past content mostly because huge chunks of various dungeons simply aren’t that fun. Instead they are just a pain or annoyance on the way to tokens. It’s like traffic on your way to work…people will find all sorts of ways and paths to avoid it.
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