condi ranger is fine.
Thats not the rangers issue (the fact that you dont provide support) the support is there on the utility bar options they don’t do so because the other 2 must have rangers (druids) do bring. And thats the core issue so long as 2 druids are mandatory condi ranger can go yolo big kitten dps builds with no care in the world. If they nerf the druid and 1 or even none is enough then you will see how the cranger dps will drop because they will have to take spirits or etc for the group.
Condi ranger is mostly fine, just needs a little shave. Condi ranger + take root is not.
i’d like to have power ranger buffed a lot to be on par
i’d like to have power ranger buffed a lot to be on par
Agreed, I have full ascended zerk, magis, and vipers, but I just prefer power, and some raid groups simply won’t take power(my experienced raid friends basically said lie if I wanna run power in any pug group cuz most groups want magis or condi ranger, and for a reason so I understand.)
Nothin against condi rangers and I enjoy magis actually. So no arguments here, just wishful thinking. And a long drawn out agreement.
This(or a variation of this) could be said for many/all professions tho I suppose, I also wish revs were more desirable.
Either way, enough of my jibber jabber I agree, a buff for power would be sweet.
i’d like to have power ranger buffed a lot to be on par
#makegsrangergreatagain
I like when people think condi ranger 31k on mursaat overseer is OP but condi thief build getting 38k is no problem. If condi ranger needs a shave then condi thief needs a complete nerf.
[DnT]::Nike::
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i’d like to have power ranger buffed a lot to be on par
#makegsrangergreatagain
thats just wrong, you assumed gs ranger was ever good
i’d like to have power ranger buffed a lot to be on par
#makegsrangergreatagain
thats just wrong, you assumed gs ranger was ever good
true but gs has the most fun toration for power builds ^^ ^^ ^^
I like when people think condi ranger 31k on mursaat overseer is OP but condi thief build getting 38k is no problem. If condi ranger needs a shave then condi thief needs a complete nerf.
How does condi thief gets to 38k from clears the highest iv seen in around 34k do you get so much more from finishers on firr fields? Also if you have any footage pls do link im interested in seeing this.
On stream last week the Condi thief had a 38k pull on overseer. Tgat was higher than normal but 37k isn’t crazy
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On stream last week the Condi thief had a 38k pull on overseer. Tgat was higher than normal but 37k isn’t crazy
how the duck did he pull such high numbers lol even od deathly’s kills he average around 31 33k or lower. Ill make sure to take a look on your twitch channel for the mo kill
On stream last week the Condi thief had a 38k pull on overseer. Tgat was higher than normal but 37k isn’t crazy
how the duck did he pull such high numbers lol even od deathly’s kills he average around 31 33k or lower. Ill make sure to take a look on your twitch channel for the mo kill
Not sure if this was done, but condi thief can have a crazy opening burst if you are willing to wait 25-30s for the venom cooldowns. You can cast them before combat, and then enter combat just before they come back off cooldown again, essentially allowing you to double cast. On short fights like MO, this could lead to 37k+
I like when people think condi ranger 31k on mursaat overseer is OP but condi thief build getting 38k is no problem. If condi ranger needs a shave then condi thief needs a complete nerf.
How does condi thief gets to 38k from clears the highest iv seen in around 34k do you get so much more from finishers on firr fields? Also if you have any footage pls do link im interested in seeing this.
This (Log) was over a month ago when we were still theorycrafting on optimal comps /builds. Since then I’ve seen it break 40k a couple of times.
Agreed that condi-ranger is fine right now.
Condi-engi is fine too, PD easily covers DPS shortcomings.
Condi-DD seems slightly on the overtuned side but it’s tricky to play at many encounters.
Take root could use a nerf to bring condi-ranger / DD back in line.
As much as I like Take Roots, they really need to disable racial skills in the raids. I am surprised they haven’t done that yet.
Might finally make them take another look at core elites then. Most of which see absolutely no play in PvE nowadays. A problem that isn’t even unique to rangers.
Or give us a gemstory feature that allows anyone to have any racial skill That way they can buff them and make them viable skills and its not pay to win while im sure it will make quite the buck for anet.
if they nerf take root i hope they buff necro elites somehow. golem is nice as CC elite skill but we need a valid dps option, and lich minions are only 200dps stronger and if fight is too long you actually lose dps by having to recast lich form and the skill.
if they nerf take root i hope they buff necro elites somehow. golem is nice as CC elite skill but we need a valid dps option, and lich minions are only 200dps stronger and if fight is too long you actually lose dps by having to recast lich form and the skill.
Imo they should revert the minion change to Lich form minions so they no longer die after 30s, I know it could get pretty crazy sometimes but there’s not many bosses that will live long enough to get more than 2 Lichs. Plague would need some extremely strong buffing to be worth taking but could work on a condi build if chill was added to Plague of Darkness for reaper, still it’s buffing core for a specific elite purpose which I don’t like and would much prefer a minion change as it buffs core necro over elite.
if they nerf take root i hope they buff necro elites somehow. golem is nice as CC elite skill but we need a valid dps option, and lich minions are only 200dps stronger and if fight is too long you actually lose dps by having to recast lich form and the skill.
Imo they should revert the minion change to Lich form minions so they no longer die after 30s, I know it could get pretty crazy sometimes but there’s not many bosses that will live long enough to get more than 2 Lichs. Plague would need some extremely strong buffing to be worth taking but could work on a condi build if chill was added to Plague of Darkness for reaper, still it’s buffing core for a specific elite purpose which I don’t like and would much prefer a minion change as it buffs core necro over elite.
i dought it in many encounters in raids with alacrity u should be able to have lots of pets no problem. Tbh i would like them to make the pets a job for the necro to keep alive rather than the healer. Yes you can achieve some great numbers but its up to you not the healer.
I agree with the OP that condition ranger is fine. People want to nerf it because it’s “easy” which isn’t even true. Condition Berserker these days hits identical numbers and is the same difficulty, meanwhile condition Daredevil can go higher than anything else and it has a comparably simple rotation. People keep looking at this like “Sc/W Ele and condition Engineer are hard, so nothing else should match their DPS”, which is terrible from both a design perspective and an overall build/class diversity perspective. All you’d achieve by nerfing “easier” classes is hurting build diversity by forcing everyone to play Ele/Engi again.
I posted this in another thread and it’s relevant here:
More important than anything is that classes can pull comparable numbers within their own playstyle regardless of the difficulty of that rotation. If condition Engineer could pull 35k DPS “just because it’s hard to play” and everything else could never go higher than 25k, then you’d create a situation where you’re only ever realistically allowed to play Engineer in the meta and you’d hurt build and class diversity substantially. If people enjoy the challenge, they can play their Engineer right now and enjoy that playstyle in raids without infringing on the ability for others to play other things. It’s good the way it is.
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I agree with the OP that condition ranger is fine. People want to nerf it because it’s “easy” which isn’t even true. Condition Berserker these days hits identical numbers and is the same difficulty, meanwhile condition Daredevil can go higher than anything else and it has a comparably simple rotation. People keep looking at this like “Sc/W Ele and condition Engineer are hard, so nothing else should match their DPS”, which is terrible from both a design perspective and an overall build/class diversity perspective. All you’d achieve by nerfing “easier” classes is hurting build diversity by forcing everyone to play Ele/Engi again.
I posted this in another thread and it’s relevant here:
More important than anything is that classes can pull comparable numbers within their own playstyle regardless of the difficulty of that rotation. If condition Engineer could pull 35k DPS “just because it’s hard to play” and everything else could never go higher than 25k, then you’d create a situation where you’re only ever realistically allowed to play Engineer in the meta and you’d hurt build and class diversity substantially. If people enjoy the challenge, they can play their Engineer right now and enjoy that playstyle in raids without infringing on the ability for others to play other things. It’s good the way it is.
I think you’re taking things a little extreme though, a condi engineer doing 35k with a complex rotation is fine, just as Sc/Wh ele needing excellent positioning and timing by most of its damage being a 3s channel is equally fine.
What isn’t fine is when builds that are much much easier to play pull damage greater than or equal to these especially when they bring as much other stuff. I don’t think easier builds should do as low as 25k unless the rotation is essentially press 1 or 2 buttons but easier rotations like condi war and condi ranger doing 30k give or take I would say hits that nice middle ground.
Then you have choices and trade offs, do you take the solid, super easy damage options which might take longer but you lose less from people sucking or do you up the complexity a little for a bigger reward? Then you have the players who can trully excell on a more difficult rotation and positioning build pulling those higher numbers but at a bigger risk if they fluff up.
Ideally every class would have a super easy DPS build hitting 25k without being taxing followed by an increase in damage based on complexity of the rotation, positioning and skill usage up to a complex build hitting within 1-2k of other classes most complex builds. That’s an ideal world though but there needs to be an appropriate risk reward and right now it’s off on a few classes and builds imo.
Edit: About your quoted paragraph. If, in your example, thief did the same damage as condi engineer but the latter is considerably harder to play then what is the incentive to play or learn engineer? If a more complex rotation has no benefit to it then you get a situation where people don’t play and will instantly kick them as it’s not worth the risk when they can get Joe Hamfist to play the fotm easy play get same damage build and have much less risk.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Edit: About your quoted paragraph. If, in your example, thief did the same damage as condi engineer but the latter is considerably harder to play then what is the incentive to play or learn engineer?
The incentive is that you find it fun, which is all that is needed for a player to play something a lot and get good with it. Every class being comparable in numbers with variable difficulty is OK because then it means that it literally doesn’t matter what you bring and it all falls back on “what you are comfortable with and what you enjoy”. I play with guildies who ask me to bring their engineers all the time just because it’s fun, regardless of the piano you play to get great DPS numbers.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Edit: About your quoted paragraph. If, in your example, thief did the same damage as condi engineer but the latter is considerably harder to play then what is the incentive to play or learn engineer?
The incentive is that you find it fun, which is all that is needed for a player to play something a lot and get good with it. Every class being comparable in numbers with variable difficulty is OK because then it means that it literally doesn’t matter what you bring and it all falls back on “what you are comfortable with and what you enjoy”. I play with guildies who ask me to bring their engineers all the time just because it’s fun, regardless of the piano you play to get great DPS numbers.
Do you know what isn’t fun?
Rotating between lots of skills and keeping track of 10-20 cool downs you can’t see to get the same damage as some thief going 51111111111151111111111151111111111.
As I say, risk vs reward, if a fairly easy build does 30k with more complexity than 2 buttons but not the same as condi engineer then it really doesn’t matter what class you bring unless going for a record run. You keep thinking of massive extremes where these easier rotation builds like condi ranger do 25k but really if they pull ~30k when played optimally and ~25k when slacking a little they will still easily provide enough damage to clear every raid encounter.
In that way no-one is penalised for bringing the class they like to play because most classes can pull the required damage to clear a raid with sufficient wiggle room for mistakes.
i would like to have the option to alter the ui to include a skill bar with all the weapon skill just grey if you are not holding the arpopriate weapon just to see the cds
Condi ranger should get a 1k dps nerf. Condi thief should be nerfed by 2-3k dps. If the leaks are true and they are going to nerf condi ranger and ignore condi thief, it will be even worse since condi thief is higher dps than condi ranger already
Quantify [qT]
Condi ranger should get a 1k dps nerf. Condi thief should be nerfed by 2-3k dps. If the leaks are true and they are going to nerf condi ranger and ignore condi thief, it will be even worse since condi thief is higher dps than condi ranger already
See, this is the kind of balancing we need take my +1, pun intended.
On stream last week the Condi thief had a 38k pull on overseer. Tgat was higher than normal but 37k isn’t crazy
how the duck did he pull such high numbers lol even od deathly’s kills he average around 31 33k or lower. Ill make sure to take a look on your twitch channel for the mo kill
This is not true. We have a kill where deathly peaked at 37k aswell without take root
Quantify [qT]
Power Ranger buff, HELL YES. That short buff in Feb 22 wasn’t enough.
Same exact story as Power Necro.
Condi ranger already suffered a minor DPS loss, leave it be.
It’s also nice seeing vanilla rangers being used. Esp since pre-hot they were DETESTED. It was truly, TRULY irritating getting kicked for simply being a ranger. They’re not that big a problem to consider nerfing. Don’t want to go back to those times I was forced to play anything but Ranger for DPS.
Let’s not forget they are pretty kitten squishy along with condi Warr (yes, really).
Condi thief would be nice in PvE also, there’s something needing slight tweaks.
Power Ranger buff, HELL YES. That short buff in Feb 22 wasn’t enough.
Same exact story as Power Necro.
Condi ranger already suffered a minor DPS loss, leave it be.
It’s also nice seeing vanilla rangers being used. Esp since pre-hot they were DETESTED. It was truly, TRULY irritating getting kicked for simply being a ranger. They’re not that big a problem to consider nerfing. Don’t want to go back to those times I was forced to play anything but Ranger for DPS.
Let’s not forget they are pretty kitten squishy along with condi Warr (yes, really).Condi thief would be nice in PvE also, there’s something needing slight tweaks.
Only thing annoying me is bad rangers that play condi ranger when the group needs healing, then switch to druid and never heal. Its becoming extremely common these days.
I think you’re taking things a little extreme though, a condi engineer doing 35k with a complex rotation is fine, just as Sc/Wh ele needing excellent positioning and timing by most of its damage being a 3s channel is equally fine.
What isn’t fine is when builds that are much much easier to play pull damage greater than or equal to these especially when they bring as much other stuff. I don’t think easier builds should do as low as 25k unless the rotation is essentially press 1 or 2 buttons but easier rotations like condi war and condi ranger doing 30k give or take I would say hits that nice middle ground.
Then you have choices and trade offs, do you take the solid, super easy damage options which might take longer but you lose less from people sucking or do you up the complexity a little for a bigger reward? Then you have the players who can trully excell on a more difficult rotation and positioning build pulling those higher numbers but at a bigger risk if they fluff up.
Ideally every class would have a super easy DPS build hitting 25k without being taxing followed by an increase in damage based on complexity of the rotation, positioning and skill usage up to a complex build hitting within 1-2k of other classes most complex builds. That’s an ideal world though but there needs to be an appropriate risk reward and right now it’s off on a few classes and builds imo.
Edit: About your quoted paragraph. If, in your example, thief did the same damage as condi engineer but the latter is considerably harder to play then what is the incentive to play or learn engineer? If a more complex rotation has no benefit to it then you get a situation where people don’t play and will instantly kick them as it’s not worth the risk when they can get Joe Hamfist to play the fotm easy play get same damage build and have much less risk.
I fully agree with your overall opinion, but generally speaking I feel like the issue is more with class perception rather than performance. Right now you are rewarded for playing mechanically difficult classes.
Condition engineer already significantly outperforms condition ranger, even using a relatively simple rotation – mainly thanks to the ~3-4k DPS boost from PD. Furthermore it brings far more utility in the form of blinds or CC.
Furthermore, even an average elementalist should have no trouble out DPSing every other class at half of the raid encounters in the game. Again with undocumented DPS gains due to the static charge on overload air. You get a huge pay-off for being good at the class.
It’s no secret that condi-ranger is currently the pug “flavour of the month”. But pugs rarely look past the DPS number which they see on their screen from arc or BGDM, both of which tend to make ranger look extremely appealing since the entirety of its DPS contribution is personal and not group based. It’s an extremely slipperly slope to start knee-jerk balancing based on the these uninformed perceptions of what performs best.
In terms of every class needing a hard and an easy build, I’d argue that condi-druid is the “hard” equivalent of condi-ranger, it’s overall “effective” DPS is also higher as a result.
(edited by AnariiUK.7409)
I think you’re taking things a little extreme though, a condi engineer doing 35k with a complex rotation is fine, just as Sc/Wh ele needing excellent positioning and timing by most of its damage being a 3s channel is equally fine.
What isn’t fine is when builds that are much much easier to play pull damage greater than or equal to these especially when they bring as much other stuff. I don’t think easier builds should do as low as 25k unless the rotation is essentially press 1 or 2 buttons but easier rotations like condi war and condi ranger doing 30k give or take I would say hits that nice middle ground.
Then you have choices and trade offs, do you take the solid, super easy damage options which might take longer but you lose less from people sucking or do you up the complexity a little for a bigger reward? Then you have the players who can trully excell on a more difficult rotation and positioning build pulling those higher numbers but at a bigger risk if they fluff up.
Ideally every class would have a super easy DPS build hitting 25k without being taxing followed by an increase in damage based on complexity of the rotation, positioning and skill usage up to a complex build hitting within 1-2k of other classes most complex builds. That’s an ideal world though but there needs to be an appropriate risk reward and right now it’s off on a few classes and builds imo.
Edit: About your quoted paragraph. If, in your example, thief did the same damage as condi engineer but the latter is considerably harder to play then what is the incentive to play or learn engineer? If a more complex rotation has no benefit to it then you get a situation where people don’t play and will instantly kick them as it’s not worth the risk when they can get Joe Hamfist to play the fotm easy play get same damage build and have much less risk.
I fully agree with your overall opinion, but generally speaking I feel like the issue is more with class perception rather than performance. Right now you are rewarded for playing mechanically difficult classes.
Condition engineer already significantly outperforms condition ranger, even using a relatively simple rotation – mainly thanks to the ~3-4k DPS boost from PD. Furthermore it brings far more utility in the form of blinds or CC.
Furthermore, even an average elementalist should have no trouble out DPSing every other class at half of the raid encounters in the game. Again with undocumented DPS gains due to the static charge on overload air. You get a huge pay-off for being good at the class.
It’s no secret that condi-ranger is currently the pug “flavour of the month”. But pugs rarely look past the DPS number which they see on their screen from arc or BGDM, both of which tend to make ranger look extremely appealing since the entirety of its DPS contribution is personal and not group based. It’s an extremely slipperly slope to start knee-jerk balancing based on the these uninformed perceptions of what performs best.
In terms of every class needing a hard and an easy build, I’d argue that condi-druid is the “hard” equivalent of condi-ranger, it’s overall “effective” DPS is also higher as a result.
Yes I agree about condi engineer being rewarded with very high damage and utility however there are builds much easier that nip at its heels and condi thief is certainly much easier and can outperform it considerably.
Average eles I see are doing 20-25k, they would do a lot more by playing thief and a lot of other power alternatives. I see very few in raids I’ve been in that are capable of doing that 30k or more that people like to think every ele does so I don’t really agree with the average eles doing more but it’s a very subjective issue tbh and I try not to only raid with people I know who don’t put.
Yeah condi druid is much harder and I agree it’s pay off is much better sporting the raid wide damage buffs and pulling a solid 10-14k is nothing to be sniffed at. I personally think condi ranger need a slight shave as OneUP said but condi thief and thief in general needs looking at, 2 button rotations doing at least 28k with no reason it shouldn’t hit 30k. Condi variant I appreciate conflicts with self but can bring 2 easily and it does insane damage having the potential to blow everything including engy out of the water with real scenarios getting to 37-38k.
Yes I also agree there’s some perception issues where people ask for whatever qT says is highest or best DPS and kick everything else.
(edited by apharma.3741)