Guild Wars 2

is anyone else getting kinda sick of this… i mean im sure the developers didnt go throught the process of making all these different encounters to have well over half of them able to be conquered with the “all stack” tactic…

while im not saying make them stupidly hard i would at least like some difference in my tactics, particularly in CoE where in pretty much all 3 paths alpha can be conquered by stacking on one spot despite having all that aoe.

what i propose is some sort of mechanic that punishes them for just standing around stacking using little to no effort on almost every fight (this comes up especially in the case of guardians and warriors) its ok if theyre moving around dodging actually trying to avoid the effects properly but standing in a corner in melee range “dodging” into a wall while fully remaining INSIDE the aoe at all times is a joke, not even moving position… perhaps even a debuff that prevents you for doing this multiple times in a fixed periodwould at least help to combat no skill stand and hit… or even allow bosses to effectively dodge roll away in order to use their more lethal ranged spells.

(infact sometimes on my engineer with a high toughness celestial bomb build i dont even attempt to avoid alphas frost effect and still dont die)

someone has probably mentioned something like this before but my search came up with nothing whether i used wrong search terms or what who knows just post your opinion on zero skilling dungeons and not just for “all stack” tactic

im with you on that they still have a lot of things to fix that why I jump off and on and off this game I love but idk man ……..

ravioli ravioli give me the formuoli

I don’t understand the people that say ‘this is not what the devs intended.’

The major component to an ‘all stack’ stragegy involves using line of sight to lure opponents to the stack.

The developers programed the current line of sight system and it is working as intended. Monsters are programed to ‘look’ for the player they want to attack and if that player moves out of line of sight to move toward that player until they are again with in line of sight.

The monsters could just as easily be programed not to move and the players would be forced to go to the monster, or fight it with their own ranged weapons.

The other side of the coin is that stacking can still be difficult. Some less expirience players that try to stack still fail.

AC Queen Spider is a perfect example of that. She’ll wipe PuG stacks all day long.

Another exmaple from AC is p3 final boss. For many groups that boss is actually easier to fight legit then to stack in that safe spot. Grast works just fine now and will throw up that bubble every time. Stacking just makes the whole group get hit with that bosses melee attacks and knock back attacks.

Would I like to see Dev’s impliment content in the future that prevented players from stacking? Sure if it was done in a creative way. Only because I welcome the challenge though and would enjoy seeing the Devs rise to the ocassion.

Nah i think we are cool, we have seen like 400 threads like this just this year alone

Totally original thread, never ever seen this before…

Yeah you’re essentially right but if players didn’t use corners they should still be using cripples and pulls to bunch mobs up for aoe damage. Anything you might consider good play (blinds, crowd control, cleave dps, combo fields, defensive walls) is best applied on closely bunched enemies. It’s probably worth remembering that skills only have a limited number of targets though, whereas you can use line-of-sight to move/control any number of enemies.

Elitists in dungeons stack on mobs and bosses, stack warriors, stack reflects, stack might, stack vuln, and even stack stacking sigils so they can stack faster. Stackception needs to come to an end, its terribly disgusting.

It’s not the players fault. It’s Anet’s fault.

Why would you not stack if it is better to stack?

You don’t see that much stacking on some of the new boss on the new TA right?

Oh and why are you using high toughness celestial build… That’s like complaining the content is so easy yet I’m a bad player that can’t dodge.

Here’s one of the recent post complaining about stacking. You get one of it every few days.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/dungeons-skipping-strategy-etc/first#post3135772

I would like to see changes to the AI where mobs try and avoid being stacked together or remaining against a wall, giving more use to crowd control skills and making the control role more important than using a skill here and there. Stacking would remain a viable strategy but wouldn’t be as easy as running around a corner in most cases.
Don’t see it happening anytime in the near future though. Without a dungeon team dungeons have been a neglected part of the game, with glitches and bugs that have been widely known for well over six months and never been fixed. You used to get banned for things like running over the boat in Arah and older similar glitches but now Anet doesn’t seem to care.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

You used to get banned for things like running over the boat in Arah

This is really doubtful but I don’t know the truth for sure so I won’t argue.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

I would like to see changes to the AI where mobs try and avoid being stacked together or remaining against a wall, giving more use to crowd control skills and making the control role more important than using a skill here and there.

You mean a melee mob will purposely not attack you if you stack on the wall? I’ll just take out a rifle and auto attack.

Make mob do more dmg. take away the aoe control and make the game like…. world of warcraft, and there the problem is fixed.

Too bad people can’t be banned for making stupid posts.

laokoko.7403:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

I would like to see changes to the AI where mobs try and avoid being stacked together or remaining against a wall, giving more use to crowd control skills and making the control role more important than using a skill here and there.

You mean a melee mob will purposely not attack you if you stack on the wall? I’ll just take out a rifle and auto attack.

Make mob do more dmg. take away the aoe control and make the game like…. world of warcraft, and there the problem is fixed.

No, as in enemies will circle around their target to more open area in the same way a player would if they are pushed against a wall. I’m not a programmer so this could be a programming nightmare but it would add some depth into the tactic instead of the joke it can turn most encounters into.

TKiller.6829:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

You used to get banned for things like running over the boat in Arah

This is really doubtful but I don’t know the truth for sure so I won’t argue.

In the first few months of the game people were indeed banned for doing exploit skips such as the one in the seraph path in Caudecus Manor where you could jump over the wall instead of dealing with the bomb barrels and bandits, and one where you could actually walk over the cave straight to the end boss. There were also some exploit skips early on in Arah that I can no longer recall people were banned for, someone whose name I no longer remember was banned for putting those exploits on youtube or something like that. I don’t know if it happens anymore but devs used to join PUGs to learn about exploits, which sometimes resulted in bans. I have not heard of anyone being banned in such a way for a very long time now though.

laokoko.7403:

It’s not the players fault. It’s Anet’s fault.

Why would you not stack if it is better to stack?

You don’t see that much stacking on some of the new boss on the new TA right?

Oh and why are you using high toughness celestial build… That’s like complaining the content is so easy yet I’m a bad player that can’t dodge.

Here’s one of the recent post complaining about stacking. You get one of it every few days.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/dungeons-skipping-strategy-etc/first#post3135772

your automatically assuming that when i WAS using that build (past tense and only to test how well it survives) that i did absoloutley no WvW at all so being a 2-shot kill not so good there.

but to make my point even better i will say that even a TURRET build can have its turrets survive stacking up sometimes… and we all know those bits of scrap metal are way too soft…

anyway while it is not exactly exploitation as opposed to just using the game mechanics a little too crafty it is something im sure alot of ppl would frown upon… even if they still go through with such a thing hypocritically… ive been through more than enough as i said am rather sick of it being abused on almost every fight

one more thing i will say is that powerful unblockables may be something they need to explore for bosses to prevent this tactic from beating every other encounter

LoS/stacking and projectile reflection both trivialize PvE content so much. You’d think Anet would want to do something to discourage the former at least and maybe rebalance the latter, but I guess living story takes precedence over any of that.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

laokoko.7403:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

I would like to see changes to the AI where mobs try and avoid being stacked together or remaining against a wall, giving more use to crowd control skills and making the control role more important than using a skill here and there.

You mean a melee mob will purposely not attack you if you stack on the wall? I’ll just take out a rifle and auto attack.

Make mob do more dmg. take away the aoe control and make the game like…. world of warcraft, and there the problem is fixed.

No, as in enemies will circle around their target to more open area in the same way a player would if they are pushed against a wall. I’m not a programmer so this could be a programming nightmare but it would add some depth into the tactic instead of the joke it can turn most encounters into.

They are still in melee range, people still going to stack, maybe people cleave 4 target instead of 5 with your suggestiong. Maybe give every mob more variety of ability, and maybe range mob will purposely move away etc etc.

Ya I mean Anet max condition stack to 25 because they care so much about their bandwith. I’m not sure your suggestion is very economic.

Either way, they are just trash mob. I rather Anet focus more on boss fight. The new TA sounds fun. Too bad people wont’ do it more than a few times because reward isn’t worth the time.

Black Box.9312:

LoS/stacking and projectile reflection both trivialize PvE content so much. You’d think Anet would want to do something to discourage the former at least and maybe rebalance the latter, but I guess living story takes precedence over any of that.

Open world is more accessible to the player base being at the bottom of the skill level. One the one end it should be a primary focus, but neglecting other end-game aspects isn’t good either. That’s honestly what bothers me about all these issues that trivialize the most, is that it doesn’t add longevity to the game. During development dungeons were described as instances designed to challenge groups of coordinated players. While that was initially the case we have found ways to outsmart and abuse game mechanics to make at least a third of the dungeon paths a joke in regards to difficulty, and that isn’t even counting the exploits. The way dungeons are done now isn’t exactly fitting that description for way too many of the available paths. What kind of longevity can you expect from run here, stack here, hit F, run here, stack here.
On a side note I didn’t know you read the forums Bbox.

I think the biggets problem when it comes to stacking is that some boss fights almost require it. For instance, most of the AC paths are almost impossible without stacking and skipping. Its a terribley set up dungeon.

But lets focus on CoE’s Alpha guy because it was mentioned earlier. One of the biggest problems, and this goes to most of the bosses and even some of the lower fighters, there’s no move regonition. If he jumps up, there’s no timing to avoid the crystal and having to stop and free someone from it is time consuming. There’s not way to dodge a move like that and to be honest, that’s bullkitten. Someone on their first 80 is still learning things, so to put that kind of kittene on them isn’t fair.

Stacking also isn’t fair to ranged characters at all, or say engineers who trait for Turrets and Grenades. Its also just not fun, especially with the clunky camera.

The beginning Fractal levels are actually dungeons done right, they force you to move around and plan out things. In most dungeon runs its just stack in a corner and lure the mob/boss in.

Oh look, you posted it again.

Stalima.5490:

(infact sometimes on my engineer with a high toughness celestial bomb build i dont even attempt to avoid alphas frost effect and still dont die)

Heh.

CryxTryx.9208:

I don’t understand the people that say ‘this is not what the devs intended.’

Ok, I’ll explain.

You don’t design and balance a variety of classes and skills just to have people ignore most of them in favor of one “tactic”. You don’t design a huge dungeon full of mobs just to have everyone skip it all to fight the end boss in 5 minutes. You don’t design and balance a variety of gear options just to have everyone use one gear type. You don’t design a huge beautiful world just to have everyone grind in one area and miss most of it.

Whenever you see results like the above, you have a design that failed to some degree. We are not trying to be psychic and read the thoughts of the developers. That’s basic design concepts.

AntiGw.9367:

CryxTryx.9208:

I don’t understand the people that say ‘this is not what the devs intended.’

Ok, I’ll explain.

You don’t design and balance a variety of classes and skills just to have people ignore most of them in favor of one “tactic”. You don’t design a huge dungeon full of mobs just to have everyone skip it all to fight the end boss in 5 minutes. You don’t design and balance a variety of gear options just to have everyone use one gear type. You don’t design a huge beautiful world just to have everyone grind in one area and miss most of it.

Whenever you see results like the above, you have a design that failed to some degree. We are not trying to be psychic and read the thoughts of the developers. That’s basic design concepts.

Devs already said that skipping is fine and intended , not all mobs are meant to be fought (aside from the new TA path).

You are talking to a brick wall oxxy

I like talking to brick walls. I’ll reply to OP seriously in a sec, gotta do some AC first.

Oxxy.7068:

AntiGw.9367:

CryxTryx.9208:

I don’t understand the people that say ‘this is not what the devs intended.’

Ok, I’ll explain.

You don’t design and balance a variety of classes and skills just to have people ignore most of them in favor of one “tactic”. You don’t design a huge dungeon full of mobs just to have everyone skip it all to fight the end boss in 5 minutes. You don’t design and balance a variety of gear options just to have everyone use one gear type. You don’t design a huge beautiful world just to have everyone grind in one area and miss most of it.

Whenever you see results like the above, you have a design that failed to some degree. We are not trying to be psychic and read the thoughts of the developers. That’s basic design concepts.

Devs already said that skipping is fine and intended , not all mobs are meant to be fought (aside from the new TA path).

They are talking about a specific type of encounters, they are not giving you an excuse to skip everything in every dungeon as soon as you find a loophole.

Show me a dev post saying that skipping is not intended and then we’ll talk, Anti.

They don’t need to say anything, their design principles speak for themselves.

It’s mostly exploiters that are waiting for such things to be explicitly stated, it’s the “but they didn’t tell us that the snowflake was an exploit” excuse all over again.

I don’t care what the devs wanted.
It’s reason #2 dungeons are so lame in this game. That’s reason enough to kill it with fire.

AntiGw.9367:

They don’t need to say anything, their design principles speak for themselves.

Definitely. Monster behaviours in Gw1 and Gw2 indicate they endorse skipping. Exploiting Consume Corpse + Rebirth was also part of Urgoz’s Warren and The Deep’s dungeon designs.

What you think the designers intended =/= what the designers intended.

http://youtu.be/LVzbcpjwo6U

and

http://youtu.be/ONZr1iGFR9I

Vox Hollow.2736:

I don’t care what the devs wanted.
It’s reason #2 dungeons are so lame in this game. That’s reason enough to kill it with fire.

Based on what? Can’t you see how popular that new no-skipping-allowed TA path is? (It ins’t).
And i’m pretty sure anyone in the dungeons forums can tell you what is an exploit and what ins’t (ie.: AC stairs, afk range some arah stuff, jumping on that thingy on SEP3, etc).

Oxxy.7068:

Vox Hollow.2736:

I don’t care what the devs wanted.
It’s reason #2 dungeons are so lame in this game. That’s reason enough to kill it with fire.

Based on what? Can’t you see how popular that new no-skipping-allowed TA path is? (It ins’t).
And i’m pretty sure anyone in the dungeons forums can tell you what is an exploit and what ins’t (ie.: AC stairs, afk range some arah stuff, jumping on that thingy on SEP3, etc).

Path of least resistance.

It’s why people exploit and cheese.

I can’t imagine why I’d have to justify saying stacking is lame.
Why in the briny blue blazes would think stacking is fun?

Vox Hollow.2736:

I can’t imagine why I’d have to justify saying stacking is lame.
Why in the briny blue blazes would think stacking is fun?

It’s not particularly boring, either ;o

hybrid.5027:

Vox Hollow.2736:

I can’t imagine why I’d have to justify saying stacking is lame.
Why in the briny blue blazes would think stacking is fun?

It’s not particularly boring, either ;o

Pretty much. I’m neutral on stacking, i do it because it is efficient, the day anet breaks stacking (they won’t), i will just use the second most efficient method.

Stalima.5490:

while im not saying make them stupidly hard i would at least like some difference in my tactics, particularly in CoE where in pretty much all 3 paths alpha can be conquered by stacking on one spot despite having all that aoe.

Actually, alpha fights are most likely “easier” if you split up at range(apart from dodging the earth thing), alpha casts one icy AoE per player, that said, if your group is afar from each other you’ll only have to deal with one attack, which is pretty easy to survive (it deals ~40% of any zerk guardian’s hp, give or take), the problem is when one person is slighty outside of alpha’s melee range, but still near his own group, the dragon tooth’s will spawn in range of everyone else, screwing the dodging/energy cycle.

Stalima.5490:

what i propose is some sort of mechanic that punishes them for just standing around stacking using little to no effort on almost every fight (this comes up especially in the case of guardians and warriors) its ok if theyre moving around dodging actually trying to avoid the effects properly but standing in a corner in melee range “dodging” into a wall while fully remaining INSIDE the aoe at all times is a joke, not even moving position… perhaps even a debuff that prevents you for doing this multiple times in a fixed periodwould at least help to combat no skill stand and hit… or even allow bosses to effectively dodge roll away in order to use their more lethal ranged spells.

Horrible idea. As per usual. people stack because it is easier to cleave the crystals and to use fiery rush/whirlwind to the wall, stacking makes alpha riskier in case of any mistake unless you run…

Stalima.5490:

(infact sometimes on my engineer with a high toughness celestial bomb build i dont even attempt to avoid alphas frost effect and still dont die)

something like this.

Now since i took some time between dungeons runs to type all this crap, i’ll just throw my opinion here:

It is obvious that you don’t do dungeons often, that said, stacking is not an exploit just because you think it is. Stacking, LoS’ing and skipping are present in many games (GW1 included (aside from stacking i think), according to anyone that played it, i didn’t so i can’t really vouch on that), not only GW2.
I seriously suggest you to get more experience instead of posting stuff like this, because it won’t lead anyone anywhere and you’ll just get harassed by the actual dungeon-runner community.

AntiGw.9367:

CryxTryx.9208:

I don’t understand the people that say ‘this is not what the devs intended.’

Ok, I’ll explain.

You don’t design and balance a variety of classes and skills just to have people ignore most of them in favor of one “tactic”. You don’t design a huge dungeon full of mobs just to have everyone skip it all to fight the end boss in 5 minutes. You don’t design and balance a variety of gear options just to have everyone use one gear type. You don’t design a huge beautiful world just to have everyone grind in one area and miss most of it.

Whenever you see results like the above, you have a design that failed to some degree. We are not trying to be psychic and read the thoughts of the developers. That’s basic design concepts.

I dislike very much when people quote my posts out of context.

If you included the rest of my post you would see that the reason I say I don’t understand when people say stacking isn’t intended is because all evidence is to the contrary.

‘Line of Sight’ is clearly a designed mechanic. Monsters are programmed to move toward the target when they can no longer draw line of sight to it. It would be just as easy to program the monster to stay stationairy and fire a ranged weapon at the wall until you moved into view. Similar to what the eyes do in Arah because they can’t move.

They could even design monsters to ‘power up’ the longer you stay out of line of sight and build stacks of might until you came back into view.

However they have not done this. They desgined ‘Line of Sight’ to workt he way it is, and we are simply using the best tactics to defeat the current design.
*******

As for boss stacking, it is not the easiest the method by far for many bosses. It actually a high risk high reward method.

When you stack against Alpha you do so because it is the most efficient damage wise because you stack in a corner so when you dodge the aoe you don’t go anywhere. This allows you to continue to DPS.

The Aoe is just as easy to dodge if he is in the middle of the room and all spread out, however then you have to run back to hiim to begin to dps again and this will slow the fight down a lot.

When you stack he also stacks the AoE’s all in the one spot making one missed dodge often fatal. High risk, high reward.

The only caveat to this is that stacking also does makign ressing easier because you are all already right there.

Stacking on AC P3 boss works well because all your dps is right there and he goes down fast. However it is just as easy if not easier to fight him legit. It just takes a bit longer. Grast works well now, he throws up that bubble to protect you from the falling rocks which is a much bigger area then that little corner everyone hides in. However it takes longer because because you have to move aroudn, people get knocked back ect. But you all take less damage over all.

AC Spider Queen fight for good players is easy to do legit. You range her and stay out of the AoE. The reason why we choose to stack is because melee is faster and it keeps the boss in one place so everyone can dps her together. This also allows the boss to melee everyone and hit everyone at once with her cone web attack. You see many PuG groups still wipe on the queen while stacked because of this. It’s high risk high reward.

You certainly don’t stack lupi because it’s easier, unless your Obal’s Ranger group. Killing Lupi at range is mind numbingly dull. You will only down if you fall asleep. It also takes a really long time.

When you fight Lupi stacked in melee you have dodge and it is very easy to make a mistake and die. (I’m no pro.) But he goes down quick. Again and High risk strategy for a high reward.

**
I would like to know if the boat skip is a bannable offense thoguh, because it if is I certainly wouldn’t use it. The run is tough but it is actually pretty quick once you master it.

CryxTryx.9208:

AntiGw.9367:

CryxTryx.9208:

I don’t understand the people that say ‘this is not what the devs intended.’

Ok, I’ll explain.

You don’t design and balance a variety of classes and skills just to have people ignore most of them in favor of one “tactic”. You don’t design a huge dungeon full of mobs just to have everyone skip it all to fight the end boss in 5 minutes. You don’t design and balance a variety of gear options just to have everyone use one gear type. You don’t design a huge beautiful world just to have everyone grind in one area and miss most of it.

Whenever you see results like the above, you have a design that failed to some degree. We are not trying to be psychic and read the thoughts of the developers. That’s basic design concepts.

I dislike very much when people quote my posts out of context.

If you included the rest of my post you would see that the reason I say I don’t understand when people say stacking isn’t intended is because all evidence is to the contrary.

‘Line of Sight’ is clearly a designed mechanic. Monsters are programmed to move toward the target when they can no longer draw line of sight to it. It would be just as easy to program the monster to stay stationairy and fire a ranged weapon at the wall until you moved into view. Similar to what the eyes do in Arah because they can’t move.

They could even design monsters to ‘power up’ the longer you stay out of line of sight and build stacks of might until you came back into view.

However they have not done this. They desgined ‘Line of Sight’ to workt he way it is, and we are simply using the best tactics to defeat the current design.
*******

As for boss stacking, it is not the easiest the method by far for many bosses. It actually a high risk high reward method.

When you stack against Alpha you do so because it is the most efficient damage wise because you stack in a corner so when you dodge the aoe you don’t go anywhere. This allows you to continue to DPS.

The Aoe is just as easy to dodge if he is in the middle of the room and all spread out, however then you have to run back to hiim to begin to dps again and this will slow the fight down a lot.

When you stack he also stacks the AoE’s all in the one spot making one missed dodge often fatal. High risk, high reward.

The only caveat to this is that stacking also does makign ressing easier because you are all already right there.

---

Stacking on AC P3 boss works well because all your dps is right there and he goes down fast. However it is just as easy if not easier to fight him legit. It just takes a bit longer. Grast works well now, he throws up that bubble to protect you from the falling rocks which is a much bigger area then that little corner everyone hides in. However it takes longer because because you have to move aroudn, people get knocked back ect. But you all take less damage over all.

---

AC Spider Queen fight for good players is easy to do legit. You range her and stay out of the AoE. The reason why we choose to stack is because melee is faster and it keeps the boss in one place so everyone can dps her together. This also allows the boss to melee everyone and hit everyone at once with her cone web attack. You see many PuG groups still wipe on the queen while stacked because of this. It’s high risk high reward.

---

You certainly don’t stack lupi because it’s easier, unless your Obal’s Ranger group. Killing Lupi at range is mind numbingly dull. You will only down if you fall asleep. It also takes a really long time.

When you fight Lupi stacked in melee you have dodge and it is very easy to make a mistake and die. (I’m no pro.) But he goes down quick. Again and High risk strategy for a high reward.

**
I would like to know if the boat skip is a bannable offense thoguh, because it if is I certainly wouldn’t use it. The run is tough but it is actually pretty quick once you master it.

I don’t know why you bothered to write that Wall of Text, he’s beyond cure and probably doesn’t even play the game.

To him, using the game mechanics isn’t playing. LoS, Stacking, Skipping, etc are all exploits due to some dysfunction in mental comprehension. Totally why monsters can see through walls instead of following you around. He’s also of the notion the later is to prevent farming, which obviously shows he’s never tried to hit more than 5 targets at once, cause you know, dungeons are meant to take 3+ hours to complete.

More bad threads from bad players with their bad feelings hurt badly.

@Ox
You’re supposed to walk out of the tooth.

Stacking against Spider Queen could rain Precursors down from the sky on magical unicorns, and the gameplay would still be this awful afk autoattack fight. I know people tend to mix up gameplay and rewards in this day and age. But, you can totally be interested in a reward and still be entirely capable of calling out a game on it’s gameplay shenanigans.

@ Cryx
While you’re more apt to risk getting downed, getting downed in a stack is a completely different thing than getting downed while kiting. Personally I’ve always felt the additional ease of rezzing canceled out any additional risk that might be incurred by stacking closer together. It’s never felt any more risky, it’s just felt more floppy.

It is understandable that people want to speed through these things as fast as possible for the most efficient profit or other outcomes. But I think it is a shameful waste of content and gameplay mechanics when the playerbase is allowed to boil everything down to: stack together, terrain exploit/obstruction, spam aoe. But as I mentioned, people can be reasonably expected to do this because it is efficient. I wouldn’t be too optimistic about things changing, as GW1 pve was very much exploited too.

@people saying content cannot be cleared without these tactics. That might be true for higher level fractals, but it is not true for everything else.

Celtus.8456:

It is understandable that people want to speed through these things as fast as possible for the most efficient profit or other outcomes. But I think it is a shameful waste of content and gameplay mechanics when the playerbase is allowed to boil everything down to: stack together, terrain exploit/obstruction, spam aoe. But as I mentioned, people can be reasonably expected to do this because it is efficient. I wouldn’t be too optimistic about things changing, as GW1 pve was very much exploited too.

@people saying content cannot be cleared without these tactics. That might be true for higher level fractals, but it is not true for everything else.

The alternative is for the dungeons to be completely dead. Everyone who’s skipping has most likely already enjoyed learning dungeons and facing the variation in trash mobs.

But if anyone killed every mobs one by one for 100+ runs without being bored to death, let me know.

So, go enjoy your first time experience/impressions with other new players. Figuring out dungeon mechanics for yourself for the first time can be really fun so join a party who has all the time in the world killing respawning monsters in swamp fractals without realising anything remotely related to wisps/wiping to spider queen and don’t ruin it by joining a party that just wants to get it down quickly.

Me thinks if you’re seriously entertaining the thought that cheese should stick around because it makes your empty unfun grinding go faster, it might be time to go do something else for a while.

To be fair, it is at least a little disappointing that anet tried to design a free flowing combat system where you can attack on the move, and yet sometimes the best strategy is to stack up and stand still behind a corner. However, there are actually fewer encounters that are genuinely trivialized by stacking then people think, and there are fights in the game that are similar to what you are asking for, OP. Lupi (melee) is a great example – in phase one you are punished for standing completely still by the swarms. The first boss in CM p3, you can’t avoid his pbaoe standing inside him, so the best strategy is to keep circling around him. Even the final boss’s in COF p1 requires some strafing. I would say alpha is an extreme example, not the rule.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Me thinks if you’re seriously entertaining the thought that cheese should stick around because it makes your empty unfun grinding go faster, it might be time to go do something else for a while.

If you think this ‘cheese’ WON’T stick around after the huge success and popularity that is the new TA path that everyone runs nowadays, you need reality check.

Dungeons lose their novelty much to quickly, if you find slowly killing mobs and grinding slowly at an efficiency that is worse than the even more unfun champ train farming, go ahead with your own LFG party. I like to preach ‘play how you want’ when I’m bored of it all.

Skills like guardians greatsword pull and mesmer focus pull should also be removed. They’re being exploited by stacking the enemies together, it’s horrible.

While we’re at it, lets remove AOE’s and cleave or anything that encourages stacking, Anet didn’t intend for these skills to hit multiple enemies.

I wrote that wall of text because I wanted to give these guys the benefit of the dobut that if it was all actually explained it might provide some insight for them as to why stacking is a viable tactic, why it is done, what the risks are.

I did indeed, waste my time.

Alot of the posters that are saying how ‘sad’ it is going through a dungeon is ‘reduced’ to stacking together and smashing buttons just don’t run a lot of dungeons.

Maybe they don’t understand the posistion many of us here are coming from. You see, I can complete the content both ways. I can complete each and every dungeon with out a stack and with out luring mobs with line of sight mechanics.

I don’t use stacking and line of sight as a crutch, I use it as a strategy to complete the content the best way I can.

Is that true for all of you telling us we shouldn’t stack? If so, feel free to add me in game, we’ll go fight Queen Spider Legit, and we’ll go fight Alpha legit and I’ll end up having to finish solo while you take a long nap.