Guild Wars 2

Think the title says it all pretty much but seems like every party only looks for lvl 80’s these days. It’s not because you have a full lvl 80 party that the dungeon is going to be easier. Personally I believe skill > character level. Really don’t understand why people want level 80’s only, anyone care to explain?

The game is a grind, if you finish dungeons faster you can yield more gold. Unfortunately this is more a problem with the economy and core design of the game that causes this effect.

Which server are you on?

Doesn’t matter which server actually… it’s all over gw2lfg.com…

With a guild group you still can do it, but usually they ask 70+ also. No one is really taking anyone around 50 anymore, not even talking about a level 35 to AC

Maybe people dont want to feel like a twink lvl service.

How come you are comparing skill and level ? what is the point in you stating the laughable “skill > level” expression? The thing is – “skilled 80 level” > “skilled lower than 80lvl” aswell as “unskilled 80 level” > “unskilled lower than 80lvl”. So why would you expect players to go with subpar aka deadweight consciously reducing the potential effectiveness of the party.
According to you guys, everyone lower than 80 level or with magic find gear is automatically super paid tourney skilled player and everyone 80lvl with berserker gear, especially if a player is a warrior – “lame olololol elitist 6min noob”.
This game is not about you, please refrain from the “good enough is good enough” propaganda upon the whole player base as it leads to the “arah is too hard, plz nerf” threads.

Achivement points also helps. If i c low lvl with low achivement > newbie. Then this run wont be fast> not fit.
If low lvl have some high achivement means, that its alt and most likely he wont draw us down to much.

Malediktus.9250:

Maybe people dont want to feel like a twink lvl service.

Pretty much this.

“Maybe people don’t want to feel like a twink leveling service.”

Lol, I feel for OP somewhat as someone who levels alts using dungeons. I wouldn’t say the sub-lvl 80 hate happens too often, though when it does it’s almost always a super-l88t group of skillful teenagers who just leveled their first hundy blades warr, have something like seven or eight hundred achievement points, and wind up eating dirt on Kholer “because of the lag” or “my dodge button isn’t working right.”

That said, I’m fine with people organizing groups as they want, but they ought to be explicit. You want 80s? Write “80s only,” as many people do. That’s totally fine by me. Same with something like “Speed Run,” which suggests you want nothing but high DPS folks who’ve run that dungeon a lot. If you don’t write any of those things, to me you are implying you’ll take all comers.

As for our much put-upon forum brethren who feel oh-so-burdened by having to level up other people’s characters in AC and TA, grow up. You are money-running a sub-lvl 80 dungeon because it is easy. If you feel like you’re a “twinking service” it’s because you’re re-running an easy and early portion of the game ad nauseum.

Make a lvl-80 only group that says so on the label, join a guild that fits your proclivities, or deal with the fact that you are running early to mid-game content on an end-game character to make the game easier. AC is not even the only farmable dungeon. Don’t want low-lvl chars in your speed runs? Go run CoF, which is just as farmable and where everyone will be at least 75. Or run CoE (lvl 78) for charged cores, which with a decent group winds up netting as much or more as AC runs.

Its not my job, nor the communities job to level your characters. If they do so, I would be very thankful and appreciate the generosity. A nicer way to do things is, play a level 80 for the dungeon, switch to a alt character at final boss who is lower level. That way the party is happy, your happy and its a win/win.

I’d say this is the extremely big fail from ANet’s part that players feel this a “job”… terribly wrong design, against all things you should experience from a computer game.

I had the same prejudice today. I’ve been doing pretty awesome with my mesmer at level 69, and today a guy just dropped me when he saw my level. I switched out and rejoined him with my level 80 necro (which is not my main, so I’m not that good with her) and we took far longer than what we would have if I had used my mesmer…

PUG’s are a gamble. While I would never turn down a skilled level 70ish (or whatever level is appropiate for X dungeon), you want to take the least risks when forming a group. Because you don’t know how skilled they are, it’s just a pick up group.

Nothing personal, really.

Maylojager.1307:

This game is not about you, please refrain from the “good enough is good enough” propaganda upon the whole player base as it leads to the “arah is too hard, plz nerf” threads.

Lol propaganda? People have to level up too. Sometimes they do it in dungeons so they can make coin/tokens so when they get to 80, they have some exotics to use.

The ‘arah is too hard, plz nerf’ threads come from your lvl 80s because that’s a lvl 80 dungeon, so not sure why you even bring that up.

It shouldn’t matter what level you invite unless you’re specifically speedrun/farming. The majority do not do that so all you’ve just said is moot.

JJBigs.8456:

Its not my job, nor the communities job to level your characters. If they do so, I would be very thankful and appreciate the generosity. A nicer way to do things is, play a level 80 for the dungeon, switch to a alt character at final boss who is lower level. That way the party is happy, your happy and its a win/win.

That be a fair argument if those low levels weren’t picking up your weak kitten level 80s when they fail to dodge. But unless you’re super-elite that has no follys on any path, the amount of difference for having an 80 or not in a downscaled dungeon isn’t that big especially with the way levels scale.

Basically, if you think you’re ‘carrying’ someone leveling an alt, you’re thinking mightily high of yourself farmin those easy-cheese dungeons.

Valynaard.8475:

I’d say this is the extremely big fail from ANet’s part that players feel this a “job”… terribly wrong design, against all things you should experience from a computer game.

And the players are free of fault, why?

Because a level 80 is more useful than someone under level 80. Plain and simple. No matter what a sub 80 can do, a level 80 can do it better.

If you don’t like it then stop complaining about what others are doing with their groups, and form your own.

The difference between lvl 80 in full exotics and low-level alt in levelling crap-gear is huge. Don’t even try to argue that.

Not to mention that those “highly skilled” alts try to play the same way they play on lvl 80 and fail horribly diying in one hit from boss, whom a lvl 80 can tank for several minutes.

Alt slackers are akin to MF-leachers, trying to use other people for personal gain. One of the worst kind of behaviour there is.

Exotic 80s running low level dungeons ad-nauseum are usually doing it because they’re not good enough to farm the harder dungeons.

Regardless, the scaled down dungeons aren’t hard enough to require full exotics. But people that run speed farms, that’s their own business. Even on my lvl 80s with exotic and ascended gear, I don’t bother joining speed farms. They aren’t fun.

Level 80 and full exotic is hardly elitist. You really can’t be much of an elitist in a horizontally progressed game. The majority of the playerbase at this point will have at least one level 80 in full exotic. Mostly it just reflects people wishing to have at least someone competent to group with.

Its a pug insurance thing I have noticed. The lesser the group seems the more “elitist” they have to be to ensure a successful run. Now say you run with a core group of three people all the time who can tackle most things rather flawlessly, then you can open the door to even some of the worst people and still come out ok.

You see those people posting on the lfg site? Notice how they are making their own groups? Maybe you could do the same thing?

i ran AC yesterday with 2x lvl80, 1x lvl 37 and 2x in their 50s and 60s and 3 of them were new to the dunegon but good players

it took us less to finish path 1 and 2 than the other day when i had 5xlvl 80 who were so bad i had to leave -.-

so it’s all about how you play and not what lvl you are

vladi.6547:

Think the title says it all pretty much but seems like every party only looks for lvl 80’s these days. It’s not because you have a full lvl 80 party that the dungeon is going to be easier. Personally I believe skill > character level. Really don’t understand why people want level 80’s only, anyone care to explain?

The dungeons in this game don’t require skill, it just requires knowing what to do and when to do it. (experience)

Pugs are like a real life job interview in that you don’t know the qualifications of your teammates when you join, so you need some sort of baseline criteria to judge a person’s quality. (That’s why you see alot of jobs in real life require certain degrees, etc. Because being a stranger you don’t know that person’s actual qualifications so the only concrete thing you can judge him on is his education level.)

Personally I would put more weight on a person’s achievement points than their actual level but it’s their level and gear that has concrete effect on their base stats regardless of their experience or skill.

It’s not elitist to require lvl 80 only in some instances. Some instances can only be feasibly done by lvl 80s with full exotics and experience. It’s like saying requiring a medical degree for surgeons is “elitist”.

DeathPanel.8362:

It’s like saying requiring a medical degree for surgeons is “elitist”.

It is if you’d require one to play Trauma Team for the Wii.

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/GhKr9U1AW_g_U9R6cuVZoCPqetAT7UqC

Seriously, this is a GAME. The second you turn it into a job, you failed.

Id like a job as a video game tester so I could have a job and play a game at the same time

Well, the second you turn this into a non paying job, you failed. How about that?

Leo G.4501:

DeathPanel.8362:

It’s like saying requiring a medical degree for surgeons is “elitist”.

It is if you’d require one to play Trauma Team for the Wii.

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/GhKr9U1AW_g_U9R6cuVZoCPqetAT7UqC

Seriously, this is a GAME. The second you turn it into a job, you failed.

The analogy is valid it’s just you failed to understand.

In a pug you don’t know the qualifications of your teammates aside from their level, and achievement points. (To an extent you know their gear by the skin, but not the runes or their build)

That’s exactly like how a job interview is. As an employer I don’t know the qualifications of my potential employees aside from concrete things like degrees and documents of past jobs. I don’t want to hire an employee whose qualifications and history I know nothing about and take the chance that I’ll have wasted my money and time and having to fire that employee later.

Having said that, not every dungeon requires 80s or good gear. My point is that certain dungeons do and it’s not elitist but realistic to have those requirements for any rational thinking pug team in that situation.

Sergoros.4398:

Achivement points also helps. If i c low lvl with low achivement > newbie. Then this run wont be fast> not fit.
If low lvl have some high achivement means, that its alt and most likely he wont draw us down to much.

Achievement points =/= skill. I have seen very skilled players with low achievement points. High achievement points == completionist. Nothing else.

Isslair.4908:

Malediktus.9250:

Maybe people dont want to feel like a twink lvl service.

Pretty much this.

By saying this you are saying that all sub-80 are unskilled and cannot hold their own. That is patently untrue. Can they do as much as a optimally traited and exotic geared version that knows what they are doing? No, they cannot. But a skilled player on a sub-80 can still contribute greatly provided they know what they are doing.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Because a level 80 is more useful than someone under level 80. Plain and simple. No matter what a sub 80 can do, a level 80 can do it better.

If you don’t like it then stop complaining about what others are doing with their groups, and form your own.

Yes and no. Yes, an 80 can do more than a sub-80. This does not mean that they will. Gear and level is not all that matters. Skill and familiarity matters more. I’ve seen a level 35 non-warrior (I forget the class) outperform a level 80 warrior in AC.

I am firmly against this ‘you must be 80’ attitude. I find it to be elitist and shunning of potentially perfectly good players. If you want your speed-runs to be 80 only, that is fine. But insisting that all players need be 80 for dungeons is false.

DeathPanel.8362:

My point is that certain dungeons do and it’s not elitist but realistic to have those requirements for any rational thinking pug team in that situation.

And this is why your analogy fails. This is false.

Barring fractals, no dungeon requires good gear, just gear. And they only require lvl 80 as an entrance qualification. I bet you, every dungeon can be complete by naked players with white weapons. I’d bet money on it.

Leo G.4501:

DeathPanel.8362:

My point is that certain dungeons do and it’s not elitist but realistic to have those requirements for any rational thinking pug team in that situation.

And this is why your analogy fails. This is false.

Barring fractals, no dungeon requires good gear, just gear. And they only require lvl 80 as an entrance qualification. I bet you, every dungeon can be complete by naked players with white weapons. I’d bet money on it.

Hmm … this sounds like a challenge. I think I may try this sometime. How much would you bet? I need monies for my legendary. ^.^

The entry wager would be pretty hefty, how much one would get per path, per player although repair costs would be waived but then the effort and time involved plus recording and posting…You probably couldn’t afford it :P

The only thing I’d exempt from this would be Fractals and Arah #4. That’s more a bonus dungeon anyway.

Leo G.4501:

The entry wager would be pretty hefty, how much one would get per path, per player although repair costs would be waived but then the effort and time involved plus recording and posting…You probably couldn’t afford it :P

The only thing I’d exempt from this would be Fractals and Arah #4. That’s more a bonus dungeon anyway.

Repair costs? No armor == no repairs.

on Northern Silver peaks i do know of a few Eliteist but most of my groups tend to only have a single level 80 or such running a said Dungeon, XD COME JOIN US GUYS <3

SynfulChaot.3169:

Leo G.4501:

The entry wager would be pretty hefty, how much one would get per path, per player although repair costs would be waived but then the effort and time involved plus recording and posting…You probably couldn’t afford it :P

The only thing I’d exempt from this would be Fractals and Arah #4. That’s more a bonus dungeon anyway.

Repair costs? No armor == no repairs.

Uh…duh?

For some people, dungeon running is all about speed. I read a thread yesterday that was a guide to speed running CoF Ex-1. One of the tips to GS Warriors was, “Only use Whirlwind Attack when the boss is up against the wall, you will lose more dps running back than WA will give you.”

The point is that people speed running want to spend as little time as possible to get the reward. They perhaps perceive that a level 80 with full trait points, and presumably exotic gear, will have better numbers than a lower level character. Better numbers are going to yield better results, assuming equal skill. Skill can be taught, but no amount of teaching can improve a lower level character’s numbers.

Since GW2 is a game to “play as you want,” it’s perhaps better to let them play as they want than to complain about their preferences on the forums.

IndigoSundown.5419:

For some people, dungeon running is all about speed. I read a thread yesterday that was a guide to speed running CoF Ex-1. One of the tips to GS Warriors was, “Only use Whirlwind Attack when the boss is up against the wall, you will lose more dps running back than WA will give you.”

The point is that people speed running want to spend as little time as possible to get the reward. They perhaps perceive that a level 80 with full trait points, and presumably exotic gear, will have better numbers than a lower level character. Better numbers are going to yield better results, assuming equal skill. Skill can be taught, but no amount of teaching can improve a lower level character’s numbers.

Since GW2 is a game to “play as you want,” it’s perhaps better to let them play as they want than to complain about their preferences on the forums.

Yep. It’s pretty much people honestly stating what they want and what they feel most comfortable playing with. It’s like how some groups specifically need at least 1-2 heavy classes.

Nothing is stopping you from attempting to form your own group, and there is more than one method to complete the dungeon (avoiding exploits, of course). Clearly state what you are looking for. Efficient communication makes a difference.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Because a level 80 is more useful than someone under level 80. Plain and simple. No matter what a sub 80 can do, a level 80 can do it better.

If you don’t like it then stop complaining about what others are doing with their groups, and form your own.

Yes and no. Yes, an 80 can do more than a sub-80. This does not mean that they will. Gear and level is not all that matters. Skill and familiarity matters more. I’ve seen a level 35 non-warrior (I forget the class) outperform a level 80 warrior in AC.

I am firmly against this ‘you must be 80’ attitude. I find it to be elitist and shunning of potentially perfectly good players. If you want your speed-runs to be 80 only, that is fine. But insisting that all players need be 80 for dungeons is false.

And how can we tell if that lvl 35 is skilled? How can we tell if that lvl 80 is skilled? Should I ask him “Hello, are you skilled enough to run the dungeon and know what you’re doing?” How easily could that person lie and say “Yeah done it hundreds of times” when in fact they don’t have a clue. Atleast if you get a lvl 80 and he isn’t the best skilled, it wont be too much of an issue as they will make up for their lack of skill by their traits/gear ect. Where as if you get a lvl 35 who doesn’t know what his doing, but also dies in a single shot who would you prefer to have? Yes a lvl 35 can out perform a lvl 80, but without watching both of them play, there is no way no tell which is going to be better. Therefore, you go with the most liekly choice, the lvl 80 as they will have better gear,traits and most likely have more experiance with their class and the game as they’ve got a lvl 80 where the lvl 35 might be someone who’s been playing for a week.
I remember when I was running AC once and had a lvl 35 ele who shouted and tried to abuse me because he swore blind he didn’t have a spell called “Ice Bow” and ended up afking during fights because he thought he was smart which meant we had to kick and find another player. Now had that ele been lvl 80 and had more experiance with his class to actually know what all of his spells are, then none of that would have happened.

Anyway, I have only every come across this once when a group told me I needed atleast 10 AR for lvl 10 fractal, even though i’m on lvl 19 with my main who has no AR and i’ve done lvl 12 fractal on my lvl 80 who doesn’t have a single exotic item. Apart from them I’ve never had any problems, in fact as soon as my guardian hit lvl 35 I lvled her to lvl 80 from exp dungeons and personal story quests only and never came across a group that said “sorry you’re too low lvl”.

It’s really not as bad as people make it out to be, many people do say 80 only, or you must have said gear or said stats, However, there are just as much, if not, more people who wouldn’t give a second thought to your lvl, gear, stats, traits, build, skills or anything else.

EliteZ.1682:

Anyway, I have only every come across this once when a group told me I needed atleast 10 AR for lvl 10 fractal

Are there actually some dollies out there asking for 10 agony resistance to run fractals lvl 10? I hope you’re joking.
/determination to run fractals with pugs = -10
People have always new wonders for my weak, naive mind….

EliteZ.1682:

I remember when I was running AC once and had a lvl 35 ele who shouted and tried to abuse me because he swore blind he didn’t have a spell called “Ice Bow” and ended up afking during fights because he thought he was smart which meant we had to kick and find another player. Now had that ele been lvl 80 and had more experiance with his class to actually know what all of his spells are, then none of that would have happened.

You’d be wrong if you say it wouldn’t have happened. I’ve been in groups running SE, one was a guardian and he refused to use wall of reflection when asked. Me? My playstyle is “It doesn’t matter, you can make it work” and I’m not going out of my way to make sure the mesmer and/or guardian are using reflections on the golem trio on path 1…because it’s doable without. But if they were to use that stuff, it’d make the fight a whole lot easier and if the is smart enough, they’ll learn it themselves and swap to the utilities best suited for the situation. If they don’t? -Shrug- you can do it without. Same with the example you mentioned, you don’t need ice bows unless you want to solo it…and even solo, you don’t need ice bows…but going afk randomly without a word, yeah…-Kick-.

I prefer to let people willingly contribute what they have rather than demanding they do what I tell them…but that’s starting to go off topic.

Anyway, I have only every come across this once when a group told me I needed atleast 10 AR for lvl 10 fractal, even though i’m on lvl 19 with my main who has no AR and i’ve done lvl 12 fractal on my lvl 80 who doesn’t have a single exotic item. Apart from them I’ve never had any problems, in fact as soon as my guardian hit lvl 35 I lvled her to lvl 80 from exp dungeons and personal story quests only and never came across a group that said “sorry you’re too low lvl”.

It’s really not as bad as people make it out to be, many people do say 80 only, or you must have said gear or said stats, However, there are just as much, if not, more people who wouldn’t give a second thought to your lvl, gear, stats, traits, build, skills or anything else.

I’d agree. Yeah, there are some people that will drop you from a team if they don’t ‘like’ you. And ‘like’ can be a variety of things: not a class the leader wants, not the right equipment, not enough achievement points, etc. Thankfully, it’s not so bad that it has become a horrible issue. It’s there but that’s only natural.

But I’ve run into this level-elitism before, specifically way back during the Halloween events. Back then I didn’t even have a level 80 yet, and here’s a cool dungeon that will only be around for a week or two and people were turning me down left and right was frustrating (coupled with other frustrations). The way I see it, just like any activity in the game, people’s time is finite. I wouldn’t want to inconvenience people who literally are in a rush to get something in game done with what little precious time they have in the game…but please do see others’ perspectives as they may want to have as much fun as they can in the game. If they find dungeons fun, forcing them to farm/craft to get to level 80 just to do what they want is just as, if not more, selfish than labling a dungeon exper as a leecher using others as twink lvling service.

It’s an insult to people that generally play dungeons well and put effort into their gameplay and is overestimating the exotic 80s, many who will seek out any lazy quick way out of finishing the instance to get their rewards…even going so far as to exploit the game in various ways. Anyone who sides with exploiters…well, I just don’t feel they have any rights here in regards to how dungeons are or should be played.

EliteZ.1682:

And how can we tell if that lvl 35 is skilled? How can we tell if that lvl 80 is skilled? Should I ask him “Hello, are you skilled enough to run the dungeon and know what you’re doing?” How easily could that person lie and say “Yeah done it hundreds of times” when in fact they don’t have a clue.

You can tell by allowing them into your party and travelling with them. Their skill will become apparent. Then, after the run, you can choose to continue with the player or not. Never during. And not before, either.

Leo G.4501:

It’s an insult to people that generally play dungeons well and put effort into their gameplay and is overestimating the exotic 80s, many who will seek out any lazy quick way out of finishing the instance to get their rewards…even going so far as to exploit the game in various ways. Anyone who sides with exploiters…well, I just don’t feel they have any rights here in regards to how dungeons are or should be played.

It is also an insult to the community. Shunning all those who are not exactly where you want them to be is never acceptable.

I’ve seen posts by ANet devs claiming that they don’t feel dungeons are harder for low 80s. I have personally experienced the exact opposite of this. Dungeons as a lowbie are a struggle to stay alive to deal what little damage you can to bosses before inevitably going down. This contrasts with lvl 80 gameplay being borderline faceroll with a well-geared and properly traited group.

I understand that people get more skilled with their class on their way to 80, and the ANet devs believe it is this skill that accounts for the disparity in performance between a lowbie and an 80 in a dungeon. I just feel that the dungeons shouldn’t be quite so harsh at low levels. If I could change the dungeon scaling system, I would give lowbies bonus toughness/vitality at lower levels to match or surpass the survivability of a well-geared lvl 80. This bonus would diminish and eventually disappear as you approached 80. I feel this would create a more level playing field and encourage groups to bring more lowbies along.

TLDR: I prefer level playing fields. Just my 2 copper.

Actually… Dont even bother finishing reading all the posts here. The way the de-leveling works for dungeons now makes it so that taking a lvl 80 in full exotic for a lower lvl dungeon is probably less effective than taking someone who is closer to meeting the lvl requirements if that person has decent gear.

Did a comparison with my warrior way back when he was lvl 55 vs a lvl 80 warrior in full exotic and we ended up at basically the same stats only that my lower lvl actually had more HP. And after the change to how the de-leveling and up-leveling works that difference should be skewed even more in favor of taking those that are closer to the level requirement of a dungeon.

And even in fractals I did better with my once lvl 30 something elementalist than most did with their 80s, might have been due to skill rather than stats though, survived longer, dodged more, kept aggro better…

The lvl 80 requirement is elitist bullkitten…
Asking for experienced players though is understandable, but in the end it works against you since at the start everyone is a noob. Better to train and give sound advice to that inexperienced person than to just ignore them so that in the future there is a bigger pool of experienced players to choose from.
And just because someone does not have experience with a dungeon does not mean they are bad at playing their class, with some general advice before a hard battle they can maybe even prove to be better at it than you yourself. And all it takes is a few minutes longer for the dungeon run.

Especially given that most elitists are so very bad at the game given they focus more on others kitten than their own, met elitists who wiped at the Wraithlord Crusher and Hunter in Arah 3, bosses that I could solo after running that path once.

I wouldn’t do a dungeon with a sub level 80. I tried dungeons prior to 80 and realised the difficulty with them and decided to come back with a char at 80 and do them, which I have done. I don’t want to play with someone who is going to waste my time by slowing down the dungeon run. There are enough bad level 80s to do that. I don’t see why thats a big deal. Statistically speaking, playing with one or more sub level 80s is going to make the dungeon more difficult and take longer. I can measure that. I can’t measure a persons skill until they have either wasted my time or done what I expected them to do.

Minibiskit.6158:

I’ve seen posts by ANet devs claiming that they don’t feel dungeons are harder for low 80s. I have personally experienced the exact opposite of this. Dungeons as a lowbie are a struggle to stay alive to deal what little damage you can to bosses before inevitably going down. This contrasts with lvl 80 gameplay being borderline faceroll with a well-geared and properly traited group.

I understand that people get more skilled with their class on their way to 80, and the ANet devs believe it is this skill that accounts for the disparity in performance between a lowbie and an 80 in a dungeon. I just feel that the dungeons shouldn’t be quite so harsh at low levels. If I could change the dungeon scaling system, I would give lowbies bonus toughness/vitality at lower levels to match or surpass the survivability of a well-geared lvl 80. This bonus would diminish and eventually disappear as you approached 80. I feel this would create a more level playing field and encourage groups to bring more lowbies along.

TLDR: I prefer level playing fields. Just my 2 copper.

It’s a mix of your lack of experience and poor quality gear that would be the factor. The dungeons aren’t harsh, people just don’t learn their classes until a long time after they hit 80.

I’ve only ever experienced this in FotM. And that’s because I was running level 10 FotMs with my level 4x guardian, which, y’know. Agony sucks.

But I digress. It really depends on the party. I don’t kick people who meet the recommended level requirements but I have taken a 32 through AC path 2 before. Let’s face it – you don’t need to be level 80 to pull levers and dodge traps. Plus, it really shouldn’t be a problem especially if the person is levelling an alt since they’d probably have run that dungeon before.

What helps is if you post on gw2lfg.com to just state your level and profession. Then whoever invites you won’t be in for a surprise if you’re not a level 80 with 6000 achievement points swinging a Twilight around. And they’ll likely be more forgiving if you happen to down more often than the level 80s (though in my experience, it’s usually the level 80 glass cannons who just down over and over again).

The only time I will run with sub 80s is if I am teaching my guildies how to do a dungeon run. Otherwise, the time I want to spend in dungeons with a pug group is the minimal amount of time possible and this occurs with lvl 80s. The only reason I pug anymore is for speedruns to make money.

Nothing wrong with that mentality.

Most players you meet for dungeons already have an 80 and/or have several alts of varying lvl. Sometimes in a blue moon you get a complete noob to the game which can be tricky in the low lvl dungeons like AC and CM… By the time anyone hits lvl 50-55 they should know the ins and outs of their class, maybe not all the tricks but they should know how to best maximize what they bring to the table.

I was a complete noob with my ele, and to this game, and still did better in fractals than quite a few lvl 80s. Assume peoples skill after you see them play, and hell maybe they will be better off after seeing you play. Experience adds up, whilst hearing elitist bullcrap just pisses people of and makes “you” sound like a moron to more savvy people.

sostronk.8167:

I wouldn’t do a dungeon with a sub level 80. I tried dungeons prior to 80 and realised the difficulty with them and decided to come back with a char at 80 and do them, which I have done. I don’t want to play with someone who is going to waste my time by slowing down the dungeon run. There are enough bad level 80s to do that. I don’t see why thats a big deal. Statistically speaking, playing with one or more sub level 80s is going to make the dungeon more difficult and take longer. I can measure that. I can’t measure a persons skill until they have either wasted my time or done what I expected them to do.

It is true that you cannot measure skill until you see them. You also cannot measure gear (I am STRONGLY against an inspect feature, BTW). Judging entirely by level is shortsighted as level tells nothing about how well a player will perform.

Give people a chance once. If it doesn’t work out, don’t party with them again. That way, you get what you want and you don’t come off as total kitten.

Drachshyish.2319:

Most players you meet for dungeons already have an 80 and/or have several alts of varying lvl. Sometimes in a blue moon you get a complete noob to the game which can be tricky in the low lvl dungeons like AC and CM… By the time anyone hits lvl 50-55 they should know the ins and outs of their class, maybe not all the tricks but they should know how to best maximize what they bring to the table.

I was a complete noob with my ele, and to this game, and still did better in fractals than quite a few lvl 80s. Assume peoples skill after you see them play, and hell maybe they will be better off after seeing you play. Experience adds up, whilst hearing elitist bullcrap just pisses people of and makes “you” sound like a moron to more savvy people.

Experience and skill is what matters. I have frequently run dungeons with sub-80 alts to level them, contributing greatly to the group and sometimes even teaching the dungeon to the 80s.

Again, level is not indicative of skill. Please give people a chance instead of dismissing them out of hand. We want a better community than that.

Imo it is not as bad as it was. Is it just me or is pure grinding fading? Used to be hard to get a group when I was under 80. Now I see someone making an under 80 group and I think I will go help those guys out it used to take me a long time to get a group going like that. By the time I type /join whatshishame the party is already full! It is not that bad I think. And they have the right to form their lvl 80 exotic parties just like you have the right to form yours.

Drachshyish.2319:

Actually… Dont even bother finishing reading all the posts here. The way the de-leveling works for dungeons now makes it so that taking a lvl 80 in full exotic for a lower lvl dungeon is probably less effective than taking someone who is closer to meeting the lvl requirements if that person has decent gear.

Did a comparison with my warrior way back when he was lvl 55 vs a lvl 80 warrior in full exotic and we ended up at basically the same stats only that my lower lvl actually had more HP. And after the change to how the de-leveling and up-leveling works that difference should be skewed even more in favor of taking those that are closer to the level requirement of a dungeon.

Has this been thoroughly tested? I mean, I knew level scaling worked in favor of up-scaled players to allow them more even footing, but…better than exotic equipped 80s?

Personally, leveling my characters, I never felt at a huge disadvantage to other higher lvl members, the main disadvantage is the lack of trait points, utility skills and master/grandmaster traits…

What about food? How does that downscale? OR how would I begin testing this? I MUST KNOW!

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

What helps is if you post on gw2lfg.com to just state your level and profession. Then whoever invites you won’t be in for a surprise if you’re not a level 80 with 6000 achievement points swinging a Twilight around. And they’ll likely be more forgiving if you happen to down more often than the level 80s (though in my experience, it’s usually the level 80 glass cannons who just down over and over again).

The annoying part is, a lot of people expect you to /join after they put their posting up and don’t look for who’s seeking a team. In a lot of dungeons, posting you’re LFG may not get a response at all…

But then I usually don’t post what profession I am (I do put what level I am), and that’s namely so that people don’t discriminate. The last thing I need is someone inviting me just because I’m a Warrior or Mesmer (got 2 War 1 Mes and 1 Ele) as it just increases the chance I’ll be plopped in a boring elitist group with 2+ other warriors >_>