Guild Wars 2

So, if you don’t carry low levels trough a dungeon when your 80, you are a elitist? wow I must have been a elitist since the early days of eq1.

Honestly, you want to do dungeons at low level, do them with other low levels, don’t expect lvl 80s to carry you.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

So, if you don’t carry low levels trough a dungeon when your 80, you are a elitist? wow I must have been a elitist since the early days of eq1.

Honestly, you want to do dungeons at low level, do them with other low levels, don’t expect lvl 80s to carry you.

If you think that all sub-80s need to be carried, then yes, you are an elitist.

No, it’s that you think you are ‘carrying low levels’ when sometimes you’re not…or that you think just because they’re level 80s, you won’t be carrying them when a lot of times you do.

If I’m leveling my alt, no one carries me. I guarantee it.

Well theres multiple factors about this argument that you have to aware of, a large part of the comunity has reached lvl80, a lvl 80 character has a higher potential armor and DPS then another character below lvl 80, being lvl 80 atleast means that they have played long enough to reach that lvl which compared to a lower lvl that you can only guestemate by their anet points to wheather they have much experience playing, and wether theyve been in the dungeon before. When you played long enough even as a lower lvl character you know how to react to mobs in a more profesional matter regardless if you have low armor if you can dodge more then the lvl 80’s and survive better you might as well be lvl 80 but even so you have lessor DPS yield that you have to be aware of. In the end all that tully mAtters is you experence and capability, and obviously people will expect to see more lvl 80’s then lower lvl’s but its up to the one party searching to specify to a degree what theyre looking for.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

So, if you don’t carry low levels trough a dungeon when your 80, you are a elitist? wow I must have been a elitist since the early days of eq1.

Honestly, you want to do dungeons at low level, do them with other low levels, don’t expect lvl 80s to carry you.

If you think that all sub-80s need to be carried, then yes, you are an elitist.

I never said sub-80’s needed to be carried, that was your words, I said you shouldn’t EXPECT to be carried by 80’s, crying that its elitist for 80’s not to group with lower level is basicly crying that they wont carry you, like it or not a sub 80 has less raw potential, and there is absolutely nothing stopping him from grouping with other sub 80’s

When you get to 80 there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing teams of your own level, and calling that elitist is wrong on so many levels.

Like it or not any time you are a lower level in a higher level group, you are being carried to some extent, why? because you have less stats, and less traits, as such you are not operating at full capacity, unlike 80s.

And no thats not the same as saying that you need to be carried.

I’m not saying 80’s shouldn’t group with lower level players, I am saying you kitten well better accept that they are under no obligation to do so

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

So, if you don’t carry low levels trough a dungeon when your 80, you are a elitist? wow I must have been a elitist since the early days of eq1.

Honestly, you want to do dungeons at low level, do them with other low levels, don’t expect lvl 80s to carry you.

If you think that all sub-80s need to be carried, then yes, you are an elitist.

I never said sub-80’s needed to be carried, that was your words, I said you shouldn’t EXCEPT to be carried by 80’s, crying that its elitist for 80’s not to group with lower level is basicly crying that they wont carry you, like it or not a sub 80 has less raw potential, and there is absolutely nothing stopping him from grouping with other sub 80’s

When you get to 80 there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing teams of your own level, and calling that elitist is wrong on so many levels.

Like it or not any time you are a lower level in a higher level group, you are being carried to some extent, why? because you have less stats, and less traits, as such you are not operating at full capacity, unlike 80s.

And no thats not the same as saying that you need to be carried.

I’m not saying 80’s shouldn’t group with lower level players, I am saying you kitten well better accept that they are under no obligation to do so

You are under no obligations, no. But you should be very clear in your LFG posting that you are taking 80s only. Not listing that and then kicking others after they join is much of the complaint.

If you are saying that you should not expect to be carried, I agree. If you are saying you should not except to be carried, I could not disagree more.

I completly Agree that they should put 80 in the box asking for level, but most tend to already do that if they are looking for 80s.

If you join a group however that is listed as 80, and get kicked, then there is nothing to complain about

Beyond that they shouldn’t need to add anything else, the level already sais 80

That said, I do wish gw2lfg would make the level box a requirement, no reason not to really.

See I mixed c and p again :P

I’ve had a few 35’s and 40’s in my group to run AC story and explore respectively. That was with a good group that I knew could handle some bad mixed in if it meant we filled the spot and just got back into AC again.

But other times, chances are that under-leveled elementalist with less than 1K achievement that wants to tag along with my group into the dungeon is going to be wiping the floor the whole time.

Some days I’ve already have my daily healer goal finished and I don’t need any additional help. Leveling in this game is not at all hard or slow. In the time it takes you to find a group that wants to drag you along into the dungeon you could have made a few levels doing solo stuff.

I still personally believe that a majority of players should not insist on 80s only. I have run across these parties rarely, but I avoid them like the plague. They are not the kind of community that I enjoy in games. I prefer people that actually intend to enjoy the game.

who are you to “feel” they should not insist on 80s only? its theyr right to do so.

Avoiding them, fine, whining that they exist? childish and most definatly not fine.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

who are you to “feel” theyre should not insist on 80s only? its theyr right to do so.

Avoiding them, fine, whining that they exist? childish and most definatly not fine.

I am not whining that they exist. I am stating that I dislike interacting with them as they tend to be elitist and honestly quite rude. This kind of behaviour is not promoting any sort of community. It is highly exclusionary.

It is simple: Those who ask for a 80 lvl only they are looking just for a carry because they dont know how to play.

Those who ask only lvl 80 for AC (such an easy dungeon) should be ashamed.

the mindset of most pve players is " GRIND , CRAFT YOUR LEGENDARY b4 it goes 5x higher $, then FORGET IT EVER HAPPENS " if the fastest way to do this is , 4 warriors & 1 mesmer zerker lvl 80 exotic" 5 min farming cof insanity then you cant accept lvl60… or it will take 2 years instead of 3 , 4 months……

they actually put the name ETERNITY to the greatest weapon in GW2.. in honor of the eternal grinding you need to finish it.

its clear that anet doesn’t want people to create legendarys as they really want it to be special

i want to make a legendary , but i don’t have the time to do it in a reasonable time, otherwise the feeling of 0 progression will make me quit months faster than it would be with getting rewarded with something special and moving to the next goal… i cant afford to party with lvl60s.. or i will never achieve my goal before quitting.

Csele.1647:

the mindset of most pve players is " GRIND , CRAFT YOUR LEGENDARY b4 it goes 5x higher $, then FORGET IT EVER HAPPENS " if the fastest way to do this is , 4 warriors & 1 mesmer zerker lvl 80 exotic" 5 min farming cof insanity then you cant accept lvl60… or it will take 2 years instead of 3 , 4 months……

they actually put the name ETERNITY to the greatest weapon in GW2.. in honor of the eternal grinding you need to finish it.

its clear that anet doesn’t want people to create legendarys as they really want it to be special

i want to make a legendary , but i don’t have the time to do it in a reasonable time, otherwise the feeling of 0 progression will make me quit months faster than it would be with getting rewarded with something special and moving to the next goal… i cant afford to party with lvl60s.. or i will never achieve my goal before quitting.

I just ran AC earlier with a sub-50 engy. Path 3. It was one of the fastest runs I have had. It just showed how it is more player skill than level when it comes to dungeons.

And speaking of legendaries, I am seeking Kudzu myself. But instead of rushing it, I am taking my time and enjoying the ride. Rushing it will only wear you out. Enjoy the game. Have fun.

you didnt understand the point… i will just say that you just cant do it faster with a lvl 60 than a lvl 80 exotics.. its just a matter of numbers.. we are not talking about players lack of skills or great skills..

im in favor of builds and class diversity… 100% but the fact is that

Csele.1647:

you didnt understand the point… i will just say that you just cant do it faster with a lvl 60 than a lvl 80 exotics.. its just a matter of numbers.. we are not talking about players lack of skills or great skills..

im in favor of builds and class diversity… 100% but the fact is that

Downleveling takes into account the fact that lower levels do not have exotics. The only real difference is traiting, which cannot be taken into account with pure stat drops. Yes, an 80 should clear the dungeon faster. But outside of certain groupings (4 war, 1 mes anyone), the time difference will not be that significant.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sergoros.4398:

Achivement points also helps. If i c low lvl with low achivement > newbie. Then this run wont be fast> not fit.
If low lvl have some high achivement means, that its alt and most likely he wont draw us down to much.

Achievement points =/= skill. I have seen very skilled players with low achievement points. High achievement points == completionist. Nothing else.

High achivement points shows, that player invested some time in the game. Most likely he is experienced.

Game WIN formula= skill+gear+experience.

U dont need all 3 to do dungeon. But u need some of it. Ppl who seek for 80 > focus on gear+skill.
Ppl who seek for high achivement > focus on experience +skill

If I c low lvl char with high achivement> means he is alt. Means, that, most likely, this player already familiar with this dungeon on his other char. Or at least he is familiar with game mechanics and can dodge.

So…im my opinion, Achivements>lvl> random pug with low achivement and low lvl

Sergoros.4398:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sergoros.4398:

Achivement points also helps. If i c low lvl with low achivement > newbie. Then this run wont be fast> not fit.
If low lvl have some high achivement means, that its alt and most likely he wont draw us down to much.

Achievement points =/= skill. I have seen very skilled players with low achievement points. High achievement points == completionist. Nothing else.

High achivement points shows, that player invested some time in the game. Most likely he is experienced.

Game WIN formula= skill+gear+experience.

U dont need all 3 to do dungeon. But u need some of it. Ppl who seek for 80 > focus on gear+skill.
Ppl who seek for high achivement > focus on experience +skill

If I c low lvl char with high achivement> means he is alt. Means, that, most likely, this player already familiar with this dungeon on his other char. Or at least he is familiar with game mechanics and can dodge.

So…im my opinion, Achivements>lvl> random pug with low achivement and low lvl

I know some with high achievement points and average skill, and some with low achievement points and high skill. Completion of content does not necessarily teach great skills. It teaches skills that allow you to pass the content. Nothing more. Nothing less.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I know some with high achievement points and average skill, and some with low achievement points and high skill. Completion of content does not necessarily teach great skills. It teaches skills that allow you to pass the content. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Look. I said achivement=exp. Not achivements=skill. Thats 2 different things.

Also. If he passed this content – he have some skill to pass it. Thats good too.

All those level 80 teams with 3k+ achievements who stack on Lupicus phase 1.

Wethospu.6437:

All those level 80 teams with 3k+ achievements who stack on Lupicus phase 1.

U should buuu them. He is soloable sometimes

also. “all those low lvls with low achivements, that can’t pass dogs in ta”

Sergoros.4398:

Wethospu.6437:

All those level 80 teams with 3k+ achievements who stack on Lupicus phase 1.

U should buuu them. He is soloable sometimes

also. “all those low lvls with low achivements, that can’t pass dogs in ta”

I whet my dungeon teeth in TA before I was level 80. The dogs require teamwork and stunbreaks. Any level 55+ (minimum recommended level) team can pass them provided they have the skill, regardless of their achievement point count.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sergoros.4398:

Wethospu.6437:

All those level 80 teams with 3k+ achievements who stack on Lupicus phase 1.

U should buuu them. He is soloable sometimes

also. “all those low lvls with low achivements, that can’t pass dogs in ta”

I whet my dungeon teeth in TA before I was level 80. The dogs require teamwork and stunbreaks. Any level 55+ (minimum recommended level) team can pass them provided they have the skill, regardless of their achievement point count.

And lupi is doable for lvl 80. It was sarcasm on his post. Isnt it obvious? Also dogs dont require teamwork. Every class can pass em solo.

Sergoros.4398:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sergoros.4398:

Wethospu.6437:

All those level 80 teams with 3k+ achievements who stack on Lupicus phase 1.

U should buuu them. He is soloable sometimes

also. “all those low lvls with low achivements, that can’t pass dogs in ta”

I whet my dungeon teeth in TA before I was level 80. The dogs require teamwork and stunbreaks. Any level 55+ (minimum recommended level) team can pass them provided they have the skill, regardless of their achievement point count.

And lupi is doable for lvl 80. It was sarcasm on his post. Isnt it obvious? Also dogs dont require teamwork. Every class can pass em solo.

I am referring to fighting, not running. I prefer clears, not ‘avoid all but the bosses’.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I am referring to fighting, not running. I prefer clears, not ‘avoid all but the bosses’.

And I prefer skips. If it is not rewarding > it is not worth the time to kill.

SynfulChaot.3169:

EliteZ.1682:

And how can we tell if that lvl 35 is skilled? How can we tell if that lvl 80 is skilled? Should I ask him “Hello, are you skilled enough to run the dungeon and know what you’re doing?” How easily could that person lie and say “Yeah done it hundreds of times” when in fact they don’t have a clue.

You can tell by allowing them into your party and travelling with them. Their skill will become apparent. Then, after the run, you can choose to continue with the player or not. Never during. And not before, either.

I am not saying that I only invite lvl 80’s because I don’t, unless I’ve always been more then capaible of runing the below 80 dungeons under lvl 80 so I don’t see why others couldn’t. I’m just saying this as to the way I see it and why others might not want to invite low lvls.

Anyway, you don’t understand where I’m coming from, so i’ll try to explain again. If I am forming a group for AC and I have one spot left but have two people wanting to join, the first is a lvl 35 and the second is a lvl 80. Unless I give them a “trial” to see which of the two has the best skill I can’t invite the best skilled player. It might be the lvl 80 but it might be the lvl 35, therefore with only knowing their name, possibly armor and achievement points, the player that is most likely going to perform better will be the lvl 80 because of the reasons I stated in my other post.

Yes, if I only have 1 lvl 35 asking to join the last slot I’ll happily invite them, if they turn out to be a noob then I’ll just kick them after the dungeon and not group with them again. Same goes if I invite a lvl 80 and they turn out to not have a clue, I’ll just try and remember their name so I don’t party with them in the future.

EliteZ.1682:

EliteZ.1682:

I remember when I was running AC once and had a lvl 35 ele who shouted and tried to abuse me because he swore blind he didn’t have a spell called “Ice Bow” and ended up afking during fights because he thought he was smart which meant we had to kick and find another player. Now had that ele been lvl 80 and had more experiance with his class to actually know what all of his spells are, then none of that would have happened.

You’d be wrong if you say it wouldn’t have happened. I’ve been in groups running SE, one was a guardian and he refused to use wall of reflection when asked. Me? My playstyle is “It doesn’t matter, you can make it work” and I’m not going out of my way to make sure the mesmer and/or guardian are using reflections on the golem trio on path 1…because it’s doable without. But if they were to use that stuff, it’d make the fight a whole lot easier and if the is smart enough, they’ll learn it themselves and swap to the utilities best suited for the situation. If they don’t? -Shrug- you can do it without. Same with the example you mentioned, you don’t need ice bows unless you want to solo it…and even solo, you don’t need ice bows…but going afk randomly without a word, yeah…-Kick-.

I prefer to let people willingly contribute what they have rather than demanding they do what I tell them…but that’s starting to go off topic.

The difference between my example and yours is that the ele didn’t even know about the spell. Atleast your guardian knew about the spell but refused to use it, the ele in my group started raging at everyone becasue we had 3 lvl 35’s and was back before burrows got patched to be easier to hit and it was like our 5/6th try on the burrows. So we simply asked the ele to use ice bow to make it easier, but he swore he never had a spell called that which made him act like a jack kitten and go afk during fights even when he wasn’t afk he just didn’t like us telling him ele’s have a spell that he swore they didn’t. Even at lvl 35 I expect a player to know what all of his spells are.

EliteZ.1682:

Anyway, you don’t understand where I’m coming from, so i’ll try to explain again. If I am forming a group for AC and I have one spot left but have two people wanting to join, the first is a lvl 35 and the second is a lvl 80. Unless I give them a “trial” to see which of the two has the best skill I can’t invite the best skilled player. It might be the lvl 80 but it might be the lvl 35, therefore with only knowing their name, possibly armor and achievement points, the player that is most likely going to perform better will be the lvl 80 because of the reasons I stated in my other post.

Yes, if I only have 1 lvl 35 asking to join the last slot I’ll happily invite them, if they turn out to be a noob then I’ll just kick them after the dungeon and not group with them again. Same goes if I invite a lvl 80 and they turn out to not have a clue, I’ll just try and remember their name so I don’t party with them in the future.

If this is true, then you are not the type of player that is being spoken of with the complaints.

The reason for an increase in 80s-only groups seems pretty obvious to me – the removal of waypoint rezzing while group members are still in combat. That change makes dungeon runs take longer if members are not more robust and experienced, so taking only 80s reduces the risk of wipes and partial wipes that extend the time taken for the dungeon while not at all increasing rewards.

It’s a simple matter of the game makers altering the risk/reward ratio of dungeons and players doing what they can to adjust it back somewhat.

tnarrant.9714:

The reason for an increase in 80s-only groups seems pretty obvious to me – the removal of waypoint rezzing while group members are still in combat. That change makes dungeon runs take longer if members are not more robust and experienced, so taking only 80s reduces the risk of wipes and partial wipes that extend the time taken for the dungeon while not at all increasing rewards.

It’s a simple matter of the game makers altering the risk/reward ratio of dungeons and players doing what they can to adjust it back somewhat.

Level does not mean skill. I cannot say this enough. There are many un-experienced 80s. There are many experienced sub-80s. Taking an 80 does not reduce anything but potentially time. That is it.

Anyone who demands for “all 80 only” for stuff like AC/CM/TA probably can’t handle themselves in a fight.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I cannot say this enough. There are many un-experienced 80s. There are many experienced sub-80s. Taking an 80 does not reduce anything but potentially time. That is it.

I’m trying to believe that you unintentionally forgot to mention that there are many un-experienced sub-80s and many experienced 80s.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Level does not mean skill.

I’m sure the majority on this forum will disagree with you on this one and posts in this thread are serving as a proof,actually let me quote one:

GabGar.4962:

It is simple: Those who ask for a 80 lvl only they are looking just for a carry because they dont know how to play.

According to dear posters in this subforum it is implied that everyone lower than 80 level or with magic find gear is a super-paid-tourney-skill-level player and anyone of level 80 is an utter fail that needs to learn 2 play and in a party with sub 80s – is being carried by those pure skill baddies.

Leo G.4501:

Exotic 80s running low level dungeons ad-nauseum are usually doing it because they’re not good enough to farm the harder dungeons.

Afoxi.6854:

Anyone who demands for “all 80 only” for stuff like AC/CM/TA probably can’t handle themselves in a fight.

GabGar.4962:

Those who ask only lvl 80 for AC (such an easy dungeon) should be ashamed.

Easy content is not an excuse to slack off, it is a possibility to breeze through it even faster. Why should the one who is seeking the process optimization (all 80 only in this case) sacrifice his/her own effectiveness and time by taking a suboptimal player. Stop the “good enough” propaganda upon the whole player base, do as you wish in your own group/guild, but spare players who are seeking efficiency of your suboptimal ways.

Maylojager.1307:

Easy content is not an excuse to slack off, it is a possibility to breeze through it even faster. Why should the one who is seeking the process optimization (all 80 only in this case) sacrifice his/her own effectiveness and time by taking a suboptimal player. Stop the “good enough” propaganda upon the whole player base, do as you wish in your own group/guild, but spare players who are seeking efficiency of your suboptimal ways.

Well said but there are places where you have to wait longer becouse you are searching for lvl80. Sometimes you waste half time of one path or more. I can do CM with newbies (45-60lvl) as effective as pros if they listen what im saying.
Keep in mind that, pros.

Maylojager.1307:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I cannot say this enough. There are many un-experienced 80s. There are many experienced sub-80s. Taking an 80 does not reduce anything but potentially time. That is it.

I’m trying to believe that you unintentionally forgot to mention that there are many un-experienced sub-80s and many experienced 80s.

Omissions were intentional. It is a given that there are experienced 80s and it is a given that there are unexperienced sub-80s. I am simply pointing out that, as many people either forget or outright ignore, that level does not mean skill.

Maylojager.1307:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Level does not mean skill.

I’m sure the majority on this forum will disagree with you on this one and posts in this thread are serving as a proof,actually let me quote one:

I do not care if you try to extend someone else’s argument to absurd lengths to prove your own. And I do not care if a majority agrees with you. A majority is not always correct.

I have partied with too many bad 80s and too many good sub-80s to blindly follow your ‘majority’. I am not stating that all sub-80s are skilled, nor am I stating that all 80s are bad. I am simply stating that you cannot judge (intelligently, mind you), a player based solely on their level.

A deleveled 80 does not have better health, armor or DPS than a char that just meets the lvl requirements if that latter char has decent gear. More traits yes, better overall stats no… Especially since the only stat that a lvl 80 can have better is crit chance, since that doesnt downscale quite as heavily… but that stat is still going to be near that of someone who has the same focus.

First time I did CoF 1 was as a “speed run” with all the skips and such and I had just hit 75 and didnt even have very good gear. I carried myself all the way and the only time I got downed was at the acolytes, even running the stones I did way better than everyone else that had more experience with the dungeon than me.
All it took from the rest of the players was 1 minute explaining a few things… Entire run took less than 10 minutes. And my raw dmg output, pretty kitten near the other warrior in my party, higher if counting the time he spent downed.

Dont expect to be carrying lower levels, because most of the time they handle themselves pretty well. Sometimes a lack of experience in a dungeon will cause them to fall at a place they shouldnt and need a bit of help… Guess what, now they have learned something.

LVL’s don’t matter, experience in the dungeons does it’s a simple as that.Also, I don’t even know where or how you begin to define an elitist in this game either lol what makes you pro? Knowing a dungeon and never getting downed? or dying ? The only time this is difficult is when you don’t know what to expect at all. Maybe make a case for new to MMO players. But from my experience Every dungeon in this game has a very little learning curve. I’ve never ran across anyone who has done a dungeon any considerable amount of times that was still bad at it. Its just a mater of going inside and doing it with ppl who know it already a few times, Its not hard to follow and pick up the boss mechanics. Every dungeon is the same for the most part they consist of knowing what to use on each prof to skip mobs , killing a boss that does A , B , C ……don’t stand here , kill this first , and red rings of death that are a universal mechanic. Only bloody boss in the game that requires anything even remotely skill related might be Simin and you have no choice but to be lvl 80 to get into Arah. debate able there even .

Lots of you big gw2 dungeon E ego kids are hilarious. I’m PRO, I’m ELITE. El OH EL
I know all the dungeons and I clear them all too but I just play the game and pug with any lvl’s. I don’t mind bringing one or two first timers either to get more people into running them, it helps the community if ppl have a better experience. If they leave happy having learned something I am happy. Sure it doesn’t always go well with first timers but its more rewarding for me helping some folks out from time to time as it is mindlessly speed clearing a run 24/7.

SynfulChaot.3169:

By saying this you are saying that all sub-80 are unskilled and cannot hold their own. That is patently untrue. Can they do as much as a optimally traited and exotic geared version that knows what they are doing? No, they cannot. But a skilled player on a sub-80 can still contribute greatly provided they know what they are doing.

But the thing is – if they’re skilled, they will do more on their lvl 80-s then on their low levels. If they’re not skilled they’ll have more margin of error on lvl 80 in full exotics.

It’s very simple logic.

Why would I want to run a dungeon with person who deliberately hinders himself?

Changing to alt on the last boss is a legit way to level alts. Leaching as a low level in lvl 80 party is not.

Personally I NEVER kick a low level character out of my party. Nor do I kick for using non-meta classes like engineer, necromancer etc. I have the fortune to have leveled my first character (a guardian) to level 80 so I will be accepted in almost any group, and I want to give others the chance, too. If I see multiple low level characters in my party, I know it’s probably going to be a bit harder run, but so what? I dont mind explaining a few mechanics to them, so that they will learn and later in turn advice newer players.

Yesterday I got 2x level 35 players in my AC run. Well, both of them got instagibbed by the flame stairs in the beginning, leaving the rest of the party 3 man the queen spider. I bet some of these elitists would just have said: “screw this” and disconnected, ruining the dungeon. But we carried on and had actually great fun. Most lower level players actually communicate more than the “thx for the run” in the end which makes running a dungeon also a social event.

Not to talk about these 5 signet level 80 warriors who run in AC like a boss and die to every trap and mob about 10 times. Their level 80 doesn’t help crap if they dont understand the dungeon mechanics.

YTY.4712:

Not to talk about these 5 signet level 80 warriors who run in AC like a boss and die to every trap and mob about 10 times. Their level 80 doesn’t help crap if they dont understand the dungeon mechanics.

And they would be even worse on lvl 35+. I don’t think you’ll argue that.

My personal opinion about this, it’s all up to the people forming the group. If you don’t like it then make your own group and allow lowbies into it. Nothing against lowbies, I’ll take one or two on an AC run every now and then. But, if I just want three quick runs of AC with no nonsense and without having to explain every encounter, then I’ll probably take 80s only. True it’s more about skill but chances are an 80 will understand the instance more and know what to do vs someone who isn’t an 80.

It’s not elitism, it’s personal preference. Elitism would be the full warrior groups that run CoF path 1 for gold and then brag about there “l33t deeps” when outside of cof path 1 they’re garbage. Same thing goes for thieves who brag about their 8k self buffed backstab crits in green gear yet they die over and over again in instances.

:edit: On the 5 signet warrior topic, I’d rather not take them either, level 80 or not. Sure they might do decent damage and who knows they could be the best kitten warrior in the game. However, IMO 5 signets is great for leveling and running around solo but it adds next to nothing to the group dynamic in instances. Warriors have some awesome group buffs that greatly benefit the group as a whole. All the while they can put out as much if not more damage than a full signet warrior. Why should I take a full signet warrior when I can take a banner or shout warrior that can do just as good AND buff me as well?

YTY.4712:

Yesterday I got 2x level 35 players in my AC run. Well, both of them got instagibbed by the flame stairs in the beginning, leaving the rest of the party 3 man the queen spider. I bet some of these elitists would just have said: “screw this” and disconnected, ruining the dungeon. But we carried on and had actually great fun. Most lower level players actually communicate more than the “thx for the run” in the end which makes running a dungeon also a social event.

Isnt it sweet, when u have so much free time? Some ppl have limited time and have to do several dungeons in a day + daily. And they have like 3-4 hours for that. Isnt it cool, when dungeon, which u can do in 1,.5 hours, is 3 hours long thx to this newbies? No. It isnt. U can’t force your way of playing on others. Cause ppl different. Sure. If i had the time, it would be fun to teach newbies new dungeon. I even do it sometimes at weekends. When im in a good mood

I actually do have some free time so I might be a bit biased, but I don’t really do the dungeons for the rewards. I do it because they are fun themselves. If I want hard cash I’ll go to CoF p1 (and no, I don’t really think about it as a real dungeon until it’s changed) or Orr. AC runs are just for fun. (I already have a full AC armorset so I don’t even need the tokens)

If you want to get the rewards as fast as possible, I suggest using gw2lfg.com and request a experienced party. However, think about it this way: when you were under level 80, I bet you got to run dungeons with other people who were already 80. What would you have thought if they didn’t want to play with you at all and everyone kicked you when they saw you weren’t 80? That wouldn’t feel good at all. You were helped when you were a lowbie – It’s just a right thing to do once in a while to return the favor!

YTY.4712:

If you want to get the rewards as fast as possible, I suggest using gw2lfg.com and request a experienced party. However, think about it this way: when you were under level 80, I bet you got to run dungeons with other people who were already 80. What would you have thought if they didn’t want to play with you at all and everyone kicked you when they saw you weren’t 80? That wouldn’t feel good at all. You were helped when you were a lowbie – It’s just a right thing to do once in a while to return the favor!

Yep. And using it just like u said ^^.

And…I leveled to my 80 only on www+events+quests. Was in a ac story mode once. Me and mine buddy. Two of us. Though I bugged all the npc with mine mesmer and we failed to do it without em ^^. So….yep… I decided to w8 till level 80, when ill be at full power.

You’re not at full power at lvl 80 in AC… Barely at a quarter of your power…

Isslair.4908:

But the thing is – if they’re skilled, they will do more on their lvl 80-s then on their low levels. If they’re not skilled they’ll have more margin of error on lvl 80 in full exotics.

It’s very simple logic.

Why would I want to run a dungeon with person who deliberately hinders himself?

Changing to alt on the last boss is a legit way to level alts. Leaching as a low level in lvl 80 party is not.

Running a sub-80 is not leeching if the chara actually contributes. I can guarantee that a good player will speed things up far more than if there was a group of 4 instead. Leeching is doing nothing.

Yes, they will do a bit less damage/support, but the difference will be quite small outside of speedruns.

Maylojager.1307:

According to dear posters in this subforum it is implied that everyone lower than 80 level or with magic find gear is a super-paid-tourney-skill-level player and anyone of level 80 is an utter fail that needs to learn 2 play and in a party with sub 80s – is being carried by those pure skill baddies.

Okay, can someone define ‘carried’ in this context? Are you implying damage/survivability? Because apparently that’s up for debate. The way levels scale, apparently they are on close enough footing that only experience/skill and master/grandmaster traits and food are the difference…and the majority of the time people don’t even use food.

Basically, unless it’s proven, I can’t accept that gear is the deciding factor.

Easy content is not an excuse to slack off, it is a possibility to breeze through it even faster. Why should the one who is seeking the process optimization (all 80 only in this case) sacrifice his/her own effectiveness and time by taking a suboptimal player. Stop the “good enough” propaganda upon the whole player base, do as you wish in your own group/guild, but spare players who are seeking efficiency of your suboptimal ways.

Easy content or not, I feel farming is a whole other debate. If you’re farming a dungeon for optimal speed/time, I concede that using non-80s may add time to every encounter…but not every team seeking only 80s are farming for speed. What other purpose would you be primarily seeking only lvl 80s for? Prove that, if you level in dungeons, you’ll be carried when an 80 props up.

As far as I can see, you’re using this whole ‘carry’ argument as a strawman to give purpose to those exclusive member seekers when the majority of the time it doesn’t matter.

Isslair.4908:

SynfulChaot.3169:

By saying this you are saying that all sub-80 are unskilled and cannot hold their own. That is patently untrue. Can they do as much as a optimally traited and exotic geared version that knows what they are doing? No, they cannot. But a skilled player on a sub-80 can still contribute greatly provided they know what they are doing.

But the thing is – if they’re skilled, they will do more on their lvl 80-s then on their low levels. If they’re not skilled they’ll have more margin of error on lvl 80 in full exotics.

It’s very simple logic.

Prove this, please.

vladi.6547:

Think the title says it all pretty much but seems like every party only looks for lvl 80’s these days. It’s not because you have a full lvl 80 party that the dungeon is going to be easier. Personally I believe skill > character level. Really don’t understand why people want level 80’s only, anyone care to explain?

I could say the same thing about you. “elitist experienced people only”. Lowbies are allowed but only if it is an alt.

But the answer is simple. They want “maxed leveled, maxed geared, experienced player”. Since there is no real way to check if a person is experience or not they can only check their level and gear.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Isslair.4908:

But the thing is – if they’re skilled, they will do more on their lvl 80-s then on their low levels. If they’re not skilled they’ll have more margin of error on lvl 80 in full exotics.

It’s very simple logic.

Why would I want to run a dungeon with person who deliberately hinders himself?

Changing to alt on the last boss is a legit way to level alts. Leaching as a low level in lvl 80 party is not.

Running a sub-80 is not leeching if the chara actually contributes. I can guarantee that a good player will speed things up far more than if there was a group of 4 instead. Leeching is doing nothing.

Yes, they will do a bit less damage/support, but the difference will be quite small outside of speedruns.

You are indeed leeching because they could invite a person who is both skilled and have max stats.

And judging by your comment saying “they will do a bit less damage”, I can honestly say you must not be very experienced and skilled else you’ll know the difference is actaully quite huge.

laokoko.7403:

You are indeed leeching because they could invite a person who is both skilled and have max stats.

And judging by your comment saying “they will do a bit less damage”, I can honestly say you must not be very experienced and skilled else you’ll know the difference is actaully quite huge.

If this is truly what you believe, then you are exactly the type of elitist that is being spoken of in this thread.

You can honestly say whatever you want , but without actually seeing how I play you know nothing of how good I am and cannot say truthfully as you do not know the truth. And this is the point I am trying to make.

laokoko.7403:

And judging by your comment saying “they will do a bit less damage”, I can honestly say you must not be very experienced and skilled else you’ll know the difference is actaully quite huge.

Is this coming from someone who actually did the dungeons to level up? Or from someone that tried AC exp once at lvl 35, deemed it hard and waited till lvl 80 to try again?