Guild Wars 2

Some of my smoothest AC runs were done with < 80 characters. Believe it or not, a properly geared level 35 will have better stats than an improperly geared lvl 80.

Second of all, in the said epic run (I’ve run all dungeons many many many times, and I’ve never had a run without at least 1 pug) was so smooth because we maintained protection with 100% uptime at every step of the way with two guardians. We also had 2 eles, one of which was a level 80 with greens which allowed us, with shared auras to have fury 100% of the time as well and about 10+ stacks of might at all times.

Believe it or not, combo fields, finishers and boons will make your life 1000x easier than have 5 people will full exo/ascended that are playing a single player game.

Protip:

Guardian: Use a hammer with traits for symbols (longer and larger) and weapon mastery (20% less cd on two handed weapons) in the HONOR trait. This allows you to do a full auto attack (protection symbol) followed by blast finisher and repeat with no down time.

Thief: You have the single best spammable aoe blast finisher in the game, enough said.

Eles: Use a staff for the most combo fields of any class.

Mesmer: Timewarp, ethereal fields … enough said.

Warrior: Longbow fire combo field and blast. Banners are also blast finishers.

Necro: Dark fields.

etc etc.

Just read http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo and learn how to play your class for dungeons. When people realize that having boons for everyone is better than mix-maxing for dps, they will find dungeons easier.

Again, this thread is not talking of the speed-runners. This is talking of people simply looking for a group. Dungeons are designed to be run at level. Unless you specify ‘80-only’ or ‘speed run’, there is no reason to exclude others.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Again, this thread is not talking of the speed-runners. This is talking of people simply looking for a group. Dungeons are designed to be run at level. Unless you specify ‘80-only’ or ‘speed run’, there is no reason to exclude others.

People will still do it. What are you going to do about it? Tell them they “should” not do it and hope they won’t?

That’s the furthest thing from an actual solution.

In the time it has taken some of these people to whine on forums they could have leveled to 80.

They could also have taken a few moments to look up the word “elitist” in a dictionary.

Blix.8021:

In the time it has taken some of these people to whine on forums they could have leveled to 80.

They could also have taken a few moments to look up the word “elitist” in a dictionary.

A lot of people likely did all 3; looked up the word, got to level 80 and ‘whined’ about this on the forums.

What’s your point? Just getting to level 80 doesn’t fix anything.

there was an lfg post today of someone taking ‘anybody’ (newbs, underleveled etc). I joined with an alt and we pretty sucessfully pulled three newbs through AC, explaining as necessary. I also did a story run with 4 completely new players and afterwards we went to do explo. for 4 firstimers I was really impressed we only wiped once at kohler (yes, I forced them to do him, as practice ;-) ). I did a bit more explaining before each encounter, so they knew the most important tells etc and we never had any problems (except the one wipe). I hope they’ll return the favour one time and take a few newbs with them as well.

both runs took nearly an hour though. they were enjoyable etc, but the time needed is extremely high, in comparison with an experienced group of 80s. after doing two runs with new players, I wanted to do a few quick runs with experienced people. made a specific lfg post and got a underleveled 5 sigil warrior with only bow and another warrior which mostly stayed on bow. still did the run, it was catastrophic. took about as long as with the players admitting to being new, only of the ‘pros’ one warrior always complained. ie against killing kohler, even though I mentioned no kohler-skipping in the lfg as well.

and that’s the problem with many of those people complaining about so called elitists. instead of asking for help (and there are always people willing to help, if you take the time to ask) they join a group by lying (explicit or implicit) and then they whine when they get kicked by people having had enough off this incredibly egoistical behavior…

Oranisagu.3706:

there was an lfg post today of someone taking ‘anybody’ (newbs, underleveled etc). I joined with an alt and we pretty sucessfully pulled three newbs through AC, explaining as necessary. I also did a story run with 4 completely new players and afterwards we went to do explo. for 4 firstimers I was really impressed we only wiped once at kohler (yes, I forced them to do him, as practice ;-) ). I did a bit more explaining before each encounter, so they knew the most important tells etc and we never had any problems (except the one wipe). I hope they’ll return the favour one time and take a few newbs with them as well.

both runs took nearly an hour though. they were enjoyable etc, but the time needed is extremely high, in comparison with an experienced group of 80s. after doing two runs with new players, I wanted to do a few quick runs with experienced people. made a specific lfg post and got a underleveled 5 sigil warrior with only bow and another warrior which mostly stayed on bow. still did the run, it was catastrophic. took about as long as with the players admitting to being new, only of the ‘pros’ one warrior always complained. ie against killing kohler, even though I mentioned no kohler-skipping in the lfg as well.

and that’s the problem with many of those people complaining about so called elitists. instead of asking for help (and there are always people willing to help, if you take the time to ask) they join a group by lying (explicit or implicit) and then they whine when they get kicked by people having had enough off this incredibly egoistical behavior…

Exactly right.

Joining a group that does not specify ‘speed run’ or ‘level 80 only’ is not lying. If the party does not specify such a requirement, there should be no problem.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Joining a group that does not specify ‘speed run’ or ‘level 80 only’ is not lying. If the party does not specify such a requirement, there should be no problem.

Can you stop with the strawman arguments? Or maybe actually read the post?

He specifically said, “…wanted to do a few quick runs with experienced people. made a SPECIFIC LFG post…”

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Joining a group that does not specify ‘speed run’ or ‘level 80 only’ is not lying. If the party does not specify such a requirement, there should be no problem.

He specifically said, “…wanted to do a few quick runs with experienced people. made a SPECIFIC LFG post…”

I missed that in the missing punctuation/capitalization. My bad. In that case, yes those players should not have tried to join.

Be that as it may, my statement still stands on it’s own merit, even if it does not apply to that situation.

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Joining a group that does not specify ‘speed run’ or ‘level 80 only’ is not lying. If the party does not specify such a requirement, there should be no problem.

He specifically said, “…wanted to do a few quick runs with experienced people. made a SPECIFIC LFG post…”

I missed that in the missing punctuation/capitalization. My bad. In that case, yes those players should not have tried to join.

Be that as it may, my statement still stands on it’s own merit, even if it does not apply to that situation.

An argument based on misrepresenting someone else’s position has no merit by definition.

DeathPanel.8362:

An argument based on misrepresenting someone else’s position has no merit by definition.

The argument stands on it’s own as it is not based on anyone else’s position.

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

An argument based on misrepresenting someone else’s position has no merit by definition.

The argument stands on it’s own as it is not based on anyone else’s position.

I recommend you go read up on what a strawman argument actually is.

Your argument has no merit because it’s based on misrepresenting someone else’s position.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

An argument based on misrepresenting someone else’s position has no merit by definition.

The argument stands on it’s own as it is not based on anyone else’s position.

I recommend you go read up on what a strawman argument actually is.

Your argument has no merit because it’s based on misrepresenting someone else’s position.

It does not misrepresent anything. It does not apply to that situation, but it is still applicable in general.

Shall we leave the pedantry and return to the topic at hand instead?

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

An argument based on misrepresenting someone else’s position has no merit by definition.

The argument stands on it’s own as it is not based on anyone else’s position.

I recommend you go read up on what a strawman argument actually is.

Your argument has no merit because it’s based on misrepresenting someone else’s position.

It does not misrepresent anything. It does not apply to that situation, but it is still applicable in general.

Now you are denying it even though it’s clear for everyone to see up a few posts.

I’ll give you one more chance and reason with you before dismissing you as a dishonest kitten.

You used an argument against kicking someone who is sub lvl 80 even though the lfg post does not state 80s only against the poster above, when he CLEARLY stated that he did in fact label his post clearly.

That’s called a strawman argument, because your own argument is so weak that you have to concot a fantasy argument that you would win against rather than the actual argument you’re faced with.

For the record, NO ONE here so far has argued in favor of kicking someone for being sub 80 when the team is NOT clearly labeled 80’s only.

It would be like me saying well you are wrong because the earth is round. (when you never said anything about the earth)

Using distortions like the strawman argument is the height of dishonesty in any debate, so you are either ill informed or you are dishonest when you do something like that.

Get it?

DeathPanel.8362:

For the record, NO ONE here so far has argued in favor of kicking someone for being sub 80 when the team is NOT clearly labeled 80’s only.

I have actually seen that argument multiple times.

I have only ever argued against kicking when the requirement is not clear. And I have stated multiple times that there is no issue with people making 80-only groups so long as it is stated. If people join a group that states requirements without meeting those requirements, then there is no issue with kicking them.

even joining a group with no specific requirements, it’s dishonest to make them think you know the dungeon. if you just run with them without saying a word, the implication is clear.
if you don’t know the dungeon, then, as I said, tell the people you’re grouping with as soon as you join. since they didn’t put in a requirement, they might very well help you learn the dungeon. if they want a quick run, it’s better for all involved if you join another group.

sub 80s being kicked from the earlier dungeons (AC, CM and TA) is why theres so many level 80s who dont know how to play their class, skip or dodge.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

sub 80s being kicked from the earlier dungeons (AC, CM and TA) is why theres so many level 80s who dont know how to play their class, skip or dodge.

People do skip doing dungeons until their 80 for other reasons. The reason for “bads” is not everyone is inherently “good/great” and take longer to learn. Some takes months to master, others days or a week. Everyone starts off noob/bad. Some people just grow faster. Some people have more time to practice getting better, others do not. Casuals tend to have less free time to learn to master things than someone who is a bum and plays 10+hrs a day.

The impatient mentality of not wanting to wait for not so good players to learn is what causes the disparity between the min-maxer’s and the casuals. I personally don’t have time to teach or wait till pugs that havent mastered content yet to get better. Some days I do, but most often I do not. I like to squeeze as much activities I can that I want to do in the given time I have. Running with sub 80’s that have low achievement points w/o a primary 80 is usually not on my priority list of things to do in that time frame.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

sub 80s being kicked from the earlier dungeons (AC, CM and TA) is why theres so many level 80s who dont know how to play their class, skip or dodge.

It’s a rather self defeating cycle, IMO. Players don’t want to invite non-80s who want to learn/participate in content. Players either sink or swim, finding groups to learn with or forming their own groups, or they take the quick advice of lvl 80s which is mainly just “get to level 80”. So they farm or grind xp (usually with simple monotonous stuff…most of the open world events aren’t really engaging, challenging or force one to learn specific tactics), often don’t have good funds as gathering material doesn’t net you much at all. Then they show up to dungeon content, unprepared, maybe even intimidated so they don’t express they aren’t familiar with it.

It hampers the dungeon community because there will be less non-80s to run with as they then choose to grind to 80 “in a week” as has been described meaning less overall people experimenting in these instances. It harms the players that want to just complete the content quicker because they’re usually dragging an inexperienced lvl 80 player around and may not even know it until it’s too late. It’s decaying the overall image of dungeons, and yeah the instances aren’t perfect (some prone to glitching) but it makes the game as a whole look bad when you’re advertising it to newbies that you gotta grind this before grinding that, etc etc.

So my advice to anyone still reading this: I’m not telling you to run with non-80s, or appealing to you to ‘carry’ people through content or do ‘charity’ runs to ‘teach nubs’. I’m telling you to stop spreading false information. You don’t have to be 80 to run this content. It won’t take ‘hours’ if you know what you’re doing. Non-80s can contribute just fine to all-80 teams and are not being carried. And if you’re only interested in getting the rewards, like lolflux, there’s nothing wrong with skips/speed runs with specific requirements, just be clear when dealing with people that don’t understand. Tell them you’re running for speed tokens, not exp.

Non-80s that are being a kitten about it need not apply. They’d be a kitten if they were lvl 80 or lvl 800 so who cares? This isn’t about the kittens, this is about dungeon runs in general.

I tried to be open-minded about non-80s in dungeon groups, I really did, but after the tenth time I got stuck in a group with some awful low level who couldn’t stay alive for more than five seconds at a time, I started feeling a lot less willing to give lowbies a chance. My idea of a fun dungeon run does not involve reviving the same time-wasting moocher over and over and over.

Did.2683:

I tried to be open-minded about non-80s in dungeon groups, I really did, but after the tenth time I got stuck in a group with some awful low level who couldn’t stay alive for more than five seconds at a time, I started feeling a lot less willing to give lowbies a chance. My idea of a fun dungeon run does not involve reviving the same time-wasting moocher over and over and over.

Are you really that tired? I mean, I don’t do AC much anymore and I don’t bother joining gw2lfg AC teams either but I do answer people shouting for story or exp in that area. Doesn’t seem like many non-80s run it since the past 4 runs I’ve randomly joined, I’ve only come across 1 non-80 character and with my support, people rarely go down to regular mobs. Hell, I can solo the trash and the bosses if need be, if people make a bad dodge, I carry 1 utility for rezzing pretty much always now.

Since the utilities I’ve got often aren’t used or needed, it’s cake. With only-80 groups, it’s all the same with probably less use of my utilities. Having a newbie in the group just means I might have to use my rez utility a few more times.

Leo G.4501:

So my advice to anyone still reading this: I’m not telling you to run with non-80s, or appealing to you to ‘carry’ people through content or do ‘charity’ runs to ‘teach nubs’. I’m telling you to stop spreading false information. You don’t have to be 80 to run this content. It won’t take ‘hours’ if you know what you’re doing. Non-80s can contribute just fine to all-80 teams and are not being carried. And if you’re only interested in getting the rewards, like lolflux, there’s nothing wrong with skips/speed runs with specific requirements, just be clear when dealing with people that don’t understand. Tell them you’re running for speed tokens, not exp.

To paraphrase my sentiments here (because re-reading it, it’s rather long winded): Non-80s don’t need to be carried, nor do they need a lvl 80 to cradle them. Players just need to stop being discouraged to actually play. More encouragement and less condescending kitten kittening means players will gravitate to the content and learn it on their own just like we did when the game released.

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

This thread is about charas below level 80 in dungeons, not class makeup in parties. Let’s not get off topic.

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

If you wanted X class in your group, why did you let this ranger in to begin with knowing full well you didn’t want them? Also I find it hilarious how you wanted to replace the ranger with a heavy armour class and you took a necromancer in the end. Personally if it had been me kicked from your group, I would have simply put you on ignore and moved on since you would have already wasted enough of my time. It may not have been elitist but it sure as hell was a kitten move on your part.

I have no problem having people under level 80 in my group, but when they die in 10 seconds flat the second they get into combat it does become pretty frustrating.

I don’t see anything wrong with wanting a full 80 group when you want it done promptly.

But I don’t die in 10 seconds flat.

Granted, I don’t have any non-80s at the moment, but I’d rather not be turned down when I do decide to level an alt. I’m actually hoping the next update features another race so I have a reason to finally play one of the professions I haven’t. Mmmm, Tengu Guardian maybe? Or Tengu Ranger.

Leo G.4501:

But I don’t die in 10 seconds flat.

Granted, I don’t have any non-80s at the moment, but I’d rather not be turned down when I do decide to level an alt. I’m actually hoping the next update features another race so I have a reason to finally play one of the professions I haven’t. Mmmm, Tengu Guardian maybe? Or Tengu Ranger.

Better make it a Tengu Warrior, otherwise you will be kicked for not being a zerker warrior even if you are level 80. /sarcastic rant off

But I have 2 Warriors already :P

Don’t ask me why, I just do. It’s a simple reason that requires a lot of explanation.

I was trying to find 2 more people for a lvl4 fractal run (me being on my lvl58 warrior plus two lvl80s from my guild). We’ve all done fractals quite a lot so we know how it works.

And guess what… yep, people left the group when they noticed that I was NOT going to change to a lvl80 charater. That’s simply ridiculous. People do really think that being on a lvl80 character automatically means better gear, more skills and more experience?

How disappointing… so much for “social gaming”.

So you finally hit level 35 and ready to experience more in-game content, such as dungeons! First step is to find a group right? Oh…You’re the only level 35 in a team filled with level 80s and they kick you out. There is a reason why some dungeons are at a certain level, any class within that level can enter and do it, so for the elitists out there, it needs to stop, just because someone is level 35 doesn’t mean they don’t know how to run a dungeon. Get your head out of your kitten There is no such thing as " lvl 80 only pls " for AC, and CM.

^ what new players think of our playerbase community.
hm….

Don’t call them elitist; there is nothing elite about them. If they can’t comfortably do AC without all lvl 80’s, they’re pretty bad players.

Don’t run dungeons for now, then. It’s not like they will be gone or something.
People value their time, it’s natural. Your progress is your own problem, just like in real world.

Direngrey.8376:

There is no such thing as " lvl 80 only pls " for AC, and CM.

Of course there is such thing. Some people just want to do it quick and easy. Also it doesn’t have to stop since people are free to chose who they play with.

There is no need for another thread about this since there are 3 more on first page.

pumpkin.6534:

I was trying to find 2 more people for a lvl4 fractal run (me being on my lvl58 warrior plus two lvl80s from my guild). We’ve all done fractals quite a lot so we know how it works.

And guess what… yep, people left the group when they noticed that I was NOT going to change to a lvl80 charater. That’s simply ridiculous. People do really think that being on a lvl80 character automatically means better gear, more skills and more experience?

How disappointing… so much for “social gaming”.

This is why I tend to try and fill as many slots possible with people that I have grouped with before, that way you only have to find one or two random people who don’t mind non 80’s. I myself don’t care what level a person is, so long as they know how to dodge and don’t go down every fight. Although I am patient and willing to give them time to learn the encounters and tells as we all have to start sometime.

People are always looking to take the easiest road and of course in this game that is being level 80 and running low level dungeons for “easy” rewards, though the fault isn’t entirely with the community on this one as much as it is with the way the game is designed.

You don’t say.. elitists? really? I mean, REALLY?

Just because someone decide to run with 80’s and not you must be elitist? You are the elitist, not them.

Spiky.8403:

You don’t say.. elitists? really? I mean, REALLY?

Just because someone decide to run with 80’s and not you must be elitist? You are the elitist, not them.

o.0…o.0…o.0… re-read that three times and it still seems a bit stupid

anyone who thinks a group of lvl 35s cant do AC exp is an idiot/bad player
any speed runners who ‘value their time’ and refuse to take sub-80s should be wearing all zerk and be pro enough to survive (as well as stating ‘speed run’ when LFM/LFG)

I love these posts, and see it two ways.

I have leveled 2 characters completely by dungeons once they made level 35, I ran with groups off gw2lfg, and was never booted from a group.

Second I will run any dungeon with anyone as long as they are the appropriate level. If you know the dungeon and on an alt, you are not going to slow us down that much. If you are a new player and willing to listen, again not going to slow it down that much.

Halo.8976:

Don’t run dungeons for now, then. It’s not like they will be gone or something.
People value their time, it’s natural. Your progress is your own problem, just like in real world.

The other side of the coin is, I value my time too. And dungeons are fun content. Why should I have to wait and not do the content I want to do when it’s designed to do so from early on? Just because people ‘feel’ their time wasted by ‘carrying’ someone who doesn’t need to really just suckerpunches that argument.

Besides, if you really valued your time, you’d have grinded out your tokens before you needed them rather than splitting it up into a leveling process you may not have enjoyed AND have been prepared with experience on handling that content with your character when you’re at 80.

Leo G.4501:

Halo.8976:

Don’t run dungeons for now, then. It’s not like they will be gone or something.
People value their time, it’s natural. Your progress is your own problem, just like in real world.

The other side of the coin is, I value my time too. And dungeons are fun content. Why should I have to wait and not do the content I want to do when it’s designed to do so from early on? Just because people ‘feel’ their time wasted by ‘carrying’ someone who doesn’t need to really just suckerpunches that argument.

This reminds me of when I was on a train home from work the other day. A girl held the door open so the train could not take off whilst she finished her conversation with her friends. The train driver made an announcement, to my surprise, saying “girl in carraige 6 do not hold the door open, your time is not as important as everyone elses on the train”. The same can be applied here. Your time is not as important as the 4 other people you are in the dungeon with.

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Halo.8976:

Don’t run dungeons for now, then. It’s not like they will be gone or something.
People value their time, it’s natural. Your progress is your own problem, just like in real world.

The other side of the coin is, I value my time too. And dungeons are fun content. Why should I have to wait and not do the content I want to do when it’s designed to do so from early on? Just because people ‘feel’ their time wasted by ‘carrying’ someone who doesn’t need to really just suckerpunches that argument.

This reminds me of when I was on a train home from work the other day. A girl held the door open so the train could not take off whilst she finished her conversation with her friends. The train driver made an announcement, to my surprise, saying “girl in carraige 6 do not hold the door open, your time is not as important as everyone elses on the train”. The same can be applied here. Your time is not as important as the 4 other people you are in the dungeon with.

The saying may hold water, but not that example. Trains are on a set schedule. Dungeon runs are not. You don’t have to have the run done within a special period (server reset aside) to get credit. Also, not being level 80 isn’t somehow holding people back for your own sake. Like many people (of experience) have said, on average you can be just as effective in a downscaled dungeon as an 80.

Another reason the example doesn’t work – if the non-80s are the people waiting for the train to go and the lvl 80 is the one holding the door waiting for someone of the proper level (another 80), they’re just wasting time.

Rysinsun.7306:

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

If you wanted X class in your group, why did you let this ranger in to begin with knowing full well you didn’t want them? Also I find it hilarious how you wanted to replace the ranger with a heavy armour class and you took a necromancer in the end. Personally if it had been me kicked from your group, I would have simply put you on ignore and moved on since you would have already wasted enough of my time. It may not have been elitist but it sure as hell was a kitten move on your part.

They were last to join, no time to let them know or edit the lfg post before they joined. We already forsaw a bad group makeup when the second thief joined (our 4th member) so when we decided to kick one of the multiple classes we picked the last one to join since it was the most fair way to do it. The second ranger joined about 5 seconds after the second thief, so like I said, no time to let them know another ranger was not needed. But seeing as kitten near every ranger in this game has a chip on their shoulder, I bet you would have sent me a bunch of tells whining too

Yes we took a necro because we were sick of waiting around for someone to actually read our lfg post asking for a heavy instead of just joining even though they weren’t a heavy armor class. Necros can be fairly tanky btw, and it worked out nicely because both thieves were direct dmg and the necro ended up being condition dmg spec. The only person in the whole group we had a problem (dying a lot, not wanting to pick up the hammer in the wall fractal) was the ranger we decided to keep. But they got better as it went on and the other four stellar players made up for it.

Oh pls don’t come here to tell big part of the community that what they do is wrong bcs they aren’t doing like you want. Im in no obligation to to make your gaming experience more enjoyable at the cost of my own. I run mainly high lvl groups bcs that’s how i like it and i suggest you find a way to enjoy the content too w/o bugging others.

Squally.4963:

Rysinsun.7306:

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

If you wanted X class in your group, why did you let this ranger in to begin with knowing full well you didn’t want them? Also I find it hilarious how you wanted to replace the ranger with a heavy armour class and you took a necromancer in the end. Personally if it had been me kicked from your group, I would have simply put you on ignore and moved on since you would have already wasted enough of my time. It may not have been elitist but it sure as hell was a kitten move on your part.

They were last to join, no time to let them know or edit the lfg post before they joined. We already forsaw a bad group makeup when the second thief joined (our 4th member) so when we decided to kick one of the multiple classes we picked the last one to join since it was the most fair way to do it. The second ranger joined about 5 seconds after the second thief, so like I said, no time to let them know another ranger was not needed. But seeing as kitten near every ranger in this game has a chip on their shoulder, I bet you would have sent me a bunch of tells whining too

Yes we took a necro because we were sick of waiting around for someone to actually read our lfg post asking for a heavy instead of just joining even though they weren’t a heavy armor class. Necros can be fairly tanky btw, and it worked out nicely because both thieves were direct dmg and the necro ended up being condition dmg spec. The only person in the whole group we had a problem (dying a lot, not wanting to pick up the hammer in the wall fractal) was the ranger we decided to keep. But they got better as it went on and the other four stellar players made up for it.

So, you had a full group and could have gone but instead you decided to kick the ranger because you thought the group makeup was bad? I’m sorry but….wow. And I have had no issues with rangers and this alleged chip on their shoulder, then again I don’t kick people because they are the wrong class. Still… everyone is entitled to play their way so kudos to you for getting a good run out of it I guess.

Cato.3547:

Oh pls don’t come here to tell big part of the community that what they do is wrong bcs they aren’t doing like you want. Im in no obligation to to make your gaming experience more enjoyable at the cost of my own. I run mainly high lvl groups bcs that’s how i like it and i suggest you find a way to enjoy the content too w/o bugging others.

Ouch, struck a nerve? I enjoy the content by not grouping with people like you, and boy do I enjoy it so much more

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Halo.8976:

Don’t run dungeons for now, then. It’s not like they will be gone or something.
People value their time, it’s natural. Your progress is your own problem, just like in real world.

The other side of the coin is, I value my time too. And dungeons are fun content. Why should I have to wait and not do the content I want to do when it’s designed to do so from early on? Just because people ‘feel’ their time wasted by ‘carrying’ someone who doesn’t need to really just suckerpunches that argument.

This reminds me of when I was on a train home from work the other day. A girl held the door open so the train could not take off whilst she finished her conversation with her friends. The train driver made an announcement, to my surprise, saying “girl in carraige 6 do not hold the door open, your time is not as important as everyone elses on the train”. The same can be applied here. Your time is not as important as the 4 other people you are in the dungeon with.

The saying may hold water, but not that example. Trains are on a set schedule. Dungeon runs are not. You don’t have to have the run done within a special period (server reset aside) to get credit. Also, not being level 80 isn’t somehow holding people back for your own sake. Like many people (of experience) have said, on average you can be just as effective in a downscaled dungeon as an 80.

Another reason the example doesn’t work – if the non-80s are the people waiting for the train to go and the lvl 80 is the one holding the door waiting for someone of the proper level (another 80), they’re just wasting time.

The vast majority of players Ive played dungeons want the dungeon done within a specific timeframe. Anything else and they have been slowed down by the girl holding the door open. You must get some very different players in your group if they don’t have expectations on how long a dungeon should take.

Oand I have 8x 80s now Who plays with sub 80s, that was so January 2013.

Rysinsun.7306:

Ouch, struck a nerve? I enjoy the content by not grouping with people like you, and boy do I enjoy it so much more

I have no issues with this fotm complaint of “elitism” so projecting much? My only issue is with people who thinks that things aren’t fair until they get special treatment

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Halo.8976:

Don’t run dungeons for now, then. It’s not like they will be gone or something.
People value their time, it’s natural. Your progress is your own problem, just like in real world.

The other side of the coin is, I value my time too. And dungeons are fun content. Why should I have to wait and not do the content I want to do when it’s designed to do so from early on? Just because people ‘feel’ their time wasted by ‘carrying’ someone who doesn’t need to really just suckerpunches that argument.

This reminds me of when I was on a train home from work the other day. A girl held the door open so the train could not take off whilst she finished her conversation with her friends. The train driver made an announcement, to my surprise, saying “girl in carraige 6 do not hold the door open, your time is not as important as everyone elses on the train”. The same can be applied here. Your time is not as important as the 4 other people you are in the dungeon with.

The saying may hold water, but not that example. Trains are on a set schedule. Dungeon runs are not. You don’t have to have the run done within a special period (server reset aside) to get credit. Also, not being level 80 isn’t somehow holding people back for your own sake. Like many people (of experience) have said, on average you can be just as effective in a downscaled dungeon as an 80.

Another reason the example doesn’t work – if the non-80s are the people waiting for the train to go and the lvl 80 is the one holding the door waiting for someone of the proper level (another 80), they’re just wasting time.

The vast majority of players Ive played dungeons want the dungeon done within a specific timeframe. Anything else and they have been slowed down by the girl holding the door open. You must get some very different players in your group if they don’t have expectations on how long a dungeon should take.

Oand I have 8x 80s now Who plays with sub 80s, that was so January 2013.

And that’s the thing, non-80s aren’t girls holding up the train. It’s provable fact. Just having a dungeon last a couple mins more because you’re not an optimized 80 doesn’t constitute devaluing other peoples time because too many variables exist. Even having an optimized 80 instead of a non-80, you could be hung up for minutes by things such as lag, disconnects, emergency afk or just luck, making a difference of a few minutes meaningless in the grande scheme.

And I didn’t say my dungeon PuGs don’t have timeframe expectations, but they generally don’t put everyone in a bind with something like “Got to finish this run by 3:45 so I can join a friends group in [insert dungeon] at 4:00 and then be ready for a guild run of [insert dungeon] at 4:20 so chop chop guys!”. Basically, the only way you need to have a dungeon done by a certain time frame is if you enforce your time frame on everyone else. Expecting a dungeon to be done within 30min is different from expecting it done by 4pm when you haven’t started or don’t have the group set.

But the main point is…none of this is relevant to level. Needing to have a run done in 20min or done by 4pm, level has no actual impact on this outcome. This is fact.