Guild Wars 2

so anet just managed to screw everyone over and get away with it… sounds like them. everyone is already over the fact that arah p3 gives the same rewards as AC and COF p1 is considered the same level as p3 and COE all paths. This is a joke and needs to be brought back into the light, not buried under piles of BS

Dungeons are more profitable to run than ever, go away.

While I agree they are super profitable, I’m still trying to wrap my head around the end dungeon gold differences. I don’t really care at the end of the day, though I’d like to see the logic behind the allotments.

What logic is there really? It is just laziness.

That’s a fair point. I try to be optimistic, though, that there is some unknown reasoning.

I’d rather have some replay value than a 1.5g reward for 15min account based daily reward.
At least before running it with alts gave you the same 60 badges rewards, now even getting kitten from the merchants sucks.
Yes it is nice that dungeons are now rewarding when it comes to gold and your first run that day… but then what…

Run moar dungeons!

I don’t know, honestly. I like to glitch the dance book and chase people around LA when I’m all out of dungeons.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

While I agree they are super profitable, I’m still trying to wrap my head around the end dungeon gold differences. I don’t really care at the end of the day, though I’d like to see the logic behind the allotments.

Honestly, I think it’s a mix of difficulty and what Anet wants you to run.

Why is AC 1.5g and COE 1g? Because they wanted to give incentives for people to run their awesome new AC design. That way when it comes time for a raise, the “dungeon team” (heavy quotes intended) can say “Look! People run AC even more, yay us”

Ethics.4519:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

While I agree they are super profitable, I’m still trying to wrap my head around the end dungeon gold differences. I don’t really care at the end of the day, though I’d like to see the logic behind the allotments.

Honestly, I think it’s a mix of difficulty and what Anet wants you to run.

Why is AC 1.5g and COE 1g? Because they wanted to give incentives for people to run their awesome new AC design. That way when it comes time for a raise, the “dungeon team” (heavy quotes intended) can say “Look! People run AC even more, yay us”

That makes sense I guess. Also sorry about not responding much earlier! Was having an excellent Coe run and didn’t want to be the only one to die because I was chit chatting.

whoever made up those end reward values knows bugger all about dungeons

Wukunlin.8461:

whoever made up those end reward values knows bugger all about dungeons

At this point I seriously doubt that any single Anet employee has run through all dungeon paths, and on the off chance they have, certainly not in an organized (zerk) group.

They really should ask to ride along on some pro runs.

Why in an organized group to have the difficulty raised?

That is a very small part of the community and it would just leave them skewed on how to reward players for those harder dungeons if anything else.

viciouspike.8624:

Why in an organized group to have the difficulty raised?

That is a very small part of the community and it would just leave them skewed on how to reward players for those harder dungeons if anything else.

No, but it’d give them an idea about the actual time/difficulty of their dungeons, instead of the relative difficulty that they experience themselves/heard from PUGs and scrubs.

I mean, if you got a dev team that kills mobs slower than wethospu solo’s them, I’m pretty sure their time tables are completely off.

viciouspike.8624:

Why in an organized group to have the difficulty raised?

That is a very small part of the community and it would just leave them skewed on how to reward players for those harder dungeons if anything else.

actually that is a fair point. Do anet design this game for people who make strategies to do dungeons efficiently or for 5 randoms in straight jackets and blindfolds?

I think I know the answer now…

Anybody remember the preview for TA new path? That dev’s mesmer had like 25khp and was camping scepter. Anet so gud at dunguns.

Why do you have to make me re-live that kittening mind-blowing experience, Player? You’re a bad person, seriously.

As for the gold rewards… yes they’re silly, to say the least, but they’re what makes dungeons highly profitable right now as well, half of me wants to show the dev how to do his kitten job and the other half wants to shake his hands and say “thank you, bro”.

Player Character.9467:

Anybody remember the preview for TA new path? That dev’s mesmer had like 25khp and was camping scepter. Anet so gud at dunguns.

That’s an often case in game development, people directly involved in content designing and balancing are rarely hardcore or even above average players of the said game.

Which is actually understable.

League of legends employs high rated players to help with game balance, i’m not sure what’s so hard about doing the same here, i mean, heck, i’m sure some people would do it (and by “it” i mean stuff like these rewards, or if some content is too hard/easy, etc) for free if anet opened some kind of test server.

Oxxy.7068:

League of legends employs high rated players to help with game balance, i’m not sure what’s so hard about doing the same here, i mean, heck, i’m sure some people would do it (and by “it” i mean stuff like these rewards, or if some content is too hard/easy, etc) for free if anet opened some kind of test server.

The butt devastation would be massive if the PVTKrew found out about that

I’d be pleased by that. (Boy that came out wrong, sooo wrong).

The rewards do not make sense right now. Even Arah money rewards are just stupid. Considering the time spent as a factor for rewards, when path 1 and 2 are both 3g, path 3 must be about 2.5g and path 4 at least 6-7g. That braindead grenth event alone is worth 3g. And melandru alone should be rewarded with 10g.

Player Character.9467:

Anybody remember the preview for TA new path? That dev’s mesmer had like 25khp and was camping scepter. Anet so gud at dunguns.

This. Just remember that these types of guys are the ones tweaking all the encounters.

Anet does use the best players to determine game balance. However, these are PVP players and WvW’ers who Anet caters mostly to. Granted, pvp balance is significantly more important to the health of the game than pve balance but it would be interesting if they interacted with the top pve guilds the same way they interact with the tpvp crowd. I mean, the leaked patch notes (which turned out to be 99% accurate) came from a WvW guild leader guy. Why is he special? Is he that much more intelligent than any of us? I wonder what capabilities Anet sees in him that they fail to see in some of us.

In terms of dungeon paths the rewards are insanely out of whack. The question is whether you weight the rewards based on difficulty or time if you wanted to reform them. Or some mix of both?

Shameless repost of my own dungeon rewards list:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Post-Patch-Dungeon-Gold-Rewards-Complete/page/2#post2610743

The point wasn’t exactly to listen to the dungeon community about class balance (well, maybe they should listen to us about necromancers), but more about pve content in general (think rewards, monsters hp pools, and what not). I will never expect any mmo to balance stuff around PvE.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Dungeons are more profitable to run than ever, go away.

yep more profitable than ever but the rewards are not balanced at all and when comparing difficulty and time to frostgorge zerging it’s not as good as it should be

I would just like the game to reward somehow people who have put in the effort and skill to be very good at PvE. Currently in PvE there’s very little incentive to be good other than less time spent doing a daily dungeon tour. It would be nice to get some sort of pat on the back, even if it was just achievements for speedrunning/soloing.

As it is now, the game, in fact, does not recognize game.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Dungeons are more profitable to run than ever, go away.

Why would anyone even bother posting after this…Completely correct, kitten you if you have a problem with dungeon rewards 30g~ per 3 hour tour….

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Anet does use the best players to determine game balance. However, these are PVP players and WvW’ers who Anet caters mostly to.

I imagine there are players in testing from all 3 game modes, but while you may hate it, I believe the PvE testers are also PVT lovers, else you would have players from the hardcore pve guilds in them.

And nah, wvw balance has no say in what goes on. All skills changes are decided by tpvp only, I have yet to see balance updates that boost a class specifically for WvW. The ranger is still useless 1 year later but continued to get nerfs due to its strength in tpvp.

But I do agree that Anet could do with taking the opinion of more intelligent players, I dont think they use the best players quite like you imagine

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

You missed the part where he got those leaked notes from somebody in alpha testing. At least that’s what i heard.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

Sac got kicked from testing more or less around game launch. You are mistaken if you think the best players are in testing, and this applies to any game format atm.

And class balance has never been determined by anything other than tpvp, state of the game discussions were always with tpvp players, and all patch notes reflect an intent of 5v5 balance, never wvw and rarely pve.

Emanuel.9781:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

You missed the part where he got those leaked notes from somebody in alpha testing. At least that’s what i heard.

Apparently. I don’t keep up with the gossip well enough.

Jackie.1829:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

Sac got kicked from testing more or less around game launch. You are mistaken if you think the best players are in testing, and this applies to any game format atm.

And class balance has never been determined by anything other than tpvp, state of the game discussions were always with tpvp players, and all patch notes reflect an intent of 5v5 balance, never wvw and rarely pve.

Well, they could for example ask our opinions about stuff like the dungeon rewards.

I’m pretty sure a lot of people would agree my list is balanced better and is more fair than the one we currently have.

What they do with the opinion is up to them. But it doesn’t take a genius to realize Anet has no idea about how their own dungeons work and have no idea about time/difficulty.

Bright, the thing is that it’s easy to be efficient in GW2. But a lot of players don’t want to be efficient, they want to “play the way they want” and I don’t mean min/maxing, I mean wearing masterwork gear and using a riffle for the whole path and of course not coming in melee range to get the boons and be easy to save (because of course they are going to die). Thus a PuG run can be overly complicated and slow.

But with a nice group, which should be with everyone except that some players don’t want to learn, pretty much every path is easy and takes pretty much the same time. Except Arah 4 which has Grenth and that’s annoying. And Giganticus if you are not used to it.
My problem with the rewards if CoF p1 is the baseline, everything else should be above it. It’s overly simple and it’s the fastest path that can be done without exploits. The other dungeons are simple, but wiping in CoF p1 is unacceptable because it’s so easy.

The only reason AC is worth more is to promote it. Not because it’s hard. But once again, PuGs know how to turn something easy in a nightmare.

RedStar.4218:

Bright, the thing is that it’s easy to be efficient in GW2. But a lot of players don’t want to be efficient, they want to “play the way they want” and I don’t mean min/maxing, I mean wearing masterwork gear and using a riffle for the whole path and of course not coming in melee range to get the boons and be easy to save (because of course they are going to die). Thus a PuG run can be overly complicated and slow.

But with a nice group, which should be with everyone except that some players don’t want to learn, pretty much every path is easy and takes pretty much the same time. Except Arah 4 which has Grenth and that’s annoying. And Giganticus if you are not used to it.
My problem with the rewards if CoF p1 is the baseline, everything else should be above it. It’s overly simple and it’s the fastest path that can be done without exploits. The other dungeons are simple, but wiping in CoF p1 is unacceptable because it’s so easy.

The only reason AC is worth more is to promote it. Not because it’s hard. But once again, PuGs know how to turn something easy in a nightmare.

Actually, SE p1 is faster than CoF p1, but I know what you want to say. The point is though, we know their dungeons better than they do, listening to us, or at least asking opinions wouldn’t hurt them. What they do with them is up to them after all.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m not privy to all the information, I just know the leaked patch notes came form the Sacrx WvW dominator guy from Red Guard. I’m quite sure he is a skilled player but why is his opinion on class balance more valued than some members of this community?

Sacrx got the leaked notes from someone in the testing corps. He’s been out of the testing group since alpha.

By they way, if you watched the video, he says that sPvP is the primary focus of balance. If you play WvW, this is very obviously true.

As for Anet balancing dungeons: I think it’s very likely that Anet doesn’t care at all about the top dungeon runners. They balance towards the average player, who is really bad at the game. Perhaps the videos of Anet devs playing with less-than-optimal gear is just their simulation of the average player? (That may be a bit far fetched.)

Lord Kuru.3685:

As for Anet balancing dungeons: I think it’s very likely that Anet doesn’t care at all about the top dungeon runners. They balance towards the average player, who is really bad at the game. Perhaps the videos of Anet devs playing with less-than-optimal gear is just their simulation of the average player? (That may be a bit far fetched.)

We already know they don’t care.

As for the Anet gimping themselves in order to simulate the average player, I think that’s highly unlikely. I think they’re really just that bad.

Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.

And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.

And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.

:(

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.

And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.

I was talking more about the fact that they don’t care about our opinion and the only attention they’ll pretty much ever give us is a red post every once in a while that’s carefully written out by some PR desk monkey, goes through 5 meetings to make sure it is perfectly void, yet gives the impression they care, as to serve as crowd control.

haviz.1340:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.

And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.

:(

So, what you’re saying is you guys broke the game?

>:-[

Ethics.4519:

So, what you’re saying is you guys broke the game?
>:-[

I’m saying I don’t have an ascended weapons.

haviz.1340:

Ethics.4519:

So, what you’re saying is you guys broke the game?
>:-[

I’m saying I don’t have an ascended weapons.

Me either! Screw ascended weapons and their superior stats with AR.

Ethics.4519:

Me either! Screw ascended weapons and their superior stats with AR.

Screw them! Only casuals need AR.

If I could put infusions in my ascended weapons that were 5% damage reduction vs Dredge and Elementals, I would trade all my AR for those.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.

And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.

I disagree, I think they did it solely based on the preponderance of 30/10/30 builds. If they wanted to slow things down, they need to make MUCH bigger changes than taking away 150 power.

I guess it could be true that their intention was to slow down our groups but they’re just amazingly incompetent.

From a design standpoint, Anet has a pretty clear history in this game of nerfing builds that go into a particular traitline for 10 points only just to snipe one uber trait. That was the philosophy behind their previous pve warrior nerfs, and it appears to be continuing here.

I think you underestimate what adding 750 power to your party did for dps. In a group that was Might capping, it was a 4-5% partywide buff, and an even bigger buff to less efficient groups. There are very few traits in the game with impact that big. Oddly enough, the next two biggest ones are Spotter and the trait for ranger spirits.

IMO if you wanted to “nerf” EA following their established design principles, they should have made it the Grandmaster trait for Arms. That way you’re forced to choose between Fast Hands or EA, which is a much more compelling choice than the current dilemma.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

From a design standpoint, Anet has a pretty clear history in this game of nerfing builds that go into a particular traitline for 10 points only just to snipe one uber trait. That was the philosophy behind their previous pve warrior nerfs, and it appears to be continuing here.

I think you underestimate what adding 750 power to your party did for dps. In a group that was Might capping, it was a 4-5% partywide buff, and an even bigger buff to less efficient groups. There are very few traits in the game with impact that big. Oddly enough, the next two biggest ones are Spotter and the trait for ranger spirits.

IMO if you wanted to “nerf” EA following their established design principles, they should have made it the Grandmaster trait for Arms. That way you’re forced to choose between Fast Hands or EA, which is a much more compelling choice than the current dilemma.

That I can get- it was a very powerful trait considering the cost of 10 points. But to the point of “slowing high end PvE teams down”, how much does it? Like, not at all. Seconds perhaps? After all, we can still take it if we really want to, sacrificing just a little bit of personal DPS for the team boost.

Broadicea.8294:

But to the point of “slowing high end PvE teams down”, how much does it? Like, not at all. Seconds perhaps? After all, we can still take it if we really want to, sacrificing just a little bit of personal DPS for the team boost.

My guess is it would slow down most boss fights by 4-5%