Guild Wars 2

Sounds very cool AND lots of work they don’t wanna do.
… and honestly, I’m not sure if I’d like to be a hamster stuck in a maze.

As Weth said, instabilities/gambits just create simple systems that can be and are being gamed.

The real solution is to increase the boss mechanics as you go up tiers. No extra HP sponge / extra damage gimmicks like the original 50-80 fractals. Legit, difficult raid style mechanics. Archdiviner at 80 should be akin to one of the medium difficulty Wildstar raid bosses. Ofcourse this is difficult to program and time consuming for devs. But the end result would be, by far, the best content in the game.

My proposal…

51-60: Bosses get one additional mechanic to add complexity to the fight, ideally a coordination check or a CC check. No more rings on loot table. Ring drops replaced with greater chance at ascended loot boxes (pickable stats) and fractal weapon boxes rarely 10-20% (pickable skin). will be challenging for pug groups, slightly more difficult then a 50 for organized teams. 5g for completion bonus + 10s per level. Expected 30-60 mins for organized team.

61-70: Bosses become akin to hardmode raid bosses, roughly equal to one of the first few Wildstar raid bosses. Complicated AOE patterns, CC checks, coordination checks. Extremely challenging for pug groups, challenging for organized groups. Rewards would be 34% chance at fractal weapon box, 66% chance for ascended weapon/armor box (pick stats). 10g for completion at 61+10s per level above. 60-90 mins for organized team.

71-80: Bosses become akin to traditional nightmare mode raid bosses in complexity, roughly equal to a moderate difficulty Wildstar raid boss. Same checks as previous tier but increased individual responsibility, such as mechanics that require the team to split up to different sections of the arena to accomplish individual challenging tasks. Virtually impossible for a pug groups, extremely challenging for organized team. 25g for completion+10s per level, 50% chance at a fractal weapon box AND 100% chance ascended gear box (pick stats). 90-120 mins for organized team.

Surely we won’t get anything like this, but it would provide a framework for challenging group content utilizing increasingly complex mechanics. And the loot is technically the same stuff at each tier (just more as you go up) so casuals can’t complain that the skill gate is keeping them away from some prestige item.

Additional reward: As you level up when you reach a new tier you unlock a new title to show off how far you’ve progressed. Once you hit 80 you get “Fractal Master” which is a title one would well and truly deserve if this prop was implemented.

-Nike

Totally agree that increased mechanics is the best possible solution. But id say gambits is better than instabilities and would be a nice extra feature for increased rewards. But should not be the method for progression.

I like Nikes proposal. Even though i think the final tier might be a bit too rewarding. 100% chance for ascended gear box is a bit much. The suggested gold reward seems ok considering the estimated completion time.

And i understand many players want to keep RNG to stop people only running the shortest maps. My solution to this would be to use the PvP map vote system to keep RNG as a factor but give the players a little more choice and also an easier time to roll for specific fractals when attempting records. Id also love to see a no reward practise instance feature where you can select the instance and maybe customise it more than usual.

Since Fractals are out for more than 2 years now, many players probably already have many different fractal skins. If we are talking about increased reward, just a higher chance for weapon skins won’t do it. Instead, i suggest fractal armor skins (maybe with different skin upgrades) for the levels 50+.

I kind of like Nike’s ideas, but 100% chance for an Ascended gear box that lets you pick stats is pretty hardcore. However, I imagine that at that point, it would be for an alt or something as you’d likely have to be on a character with max Ascended stuff anyways.

I also like Nike’s ideas. But the rewards he propose are broken. Ya I know that right now, they are broken on the other side of the spectrum, but the goal here would be to make it in line with the rest of the game.

Fractal weapons box and ascended weapons/armor chest that you can pick which one you like, that should be there of course. But, i think that the reward should be around 7-10gold per hour. A bit less if you have a good chance to get fractal/ascended chest. Keep in mind that it sound all great to get more of those, but if you give them like candy at high level, then it will rapidly be like ascended rings. We gonna have more than we need and they will be worthless. Right now at 50 you have around 50% of a ring, 15% chance of a fractal weapon, 15% chance of a ascended chest, 20% chance of getting nothing. If you replace the random chest by a pickable one, these numbers should decrease in level 1-50. At level 51-60 is should be 10% chance to get fractal chest, 10% to get an ascended weapon and 10% to get an ascended armor chest. At 61-70 it could be at 15% chance each and at 71-80 it could be 20% chance.

I would also drop the gold reward from the 25G propose by Nike to 15-20G.

Yeah being able to trade in unwanted fractal skins needs to be implemented in addition to unwanted rings. Trading in for relics is fine. Then add new stuff to buy with relics such as unique food recipes. You could even add relics to the recipe to provide fractal runners a steady income from crafting and selling exclusive fractal food.

Currently we have an exclusive rune and sigil. But those are made from quite rare drops (mist essence) and the profit gain is very minor considering the material cost. So food would be a nice addition. Also can we please trade in our duplicate recipes for relics or vendor them?

I made the rewards based on the idea that its 120 minutes @ 80 for a super skilled organized group and completely unbeatable for a pug or bad team. The challenge of the content would be such (if implemented as I said) that it’s fair to say that gold/hour wouldn’t be that great. Especially since as you are learning the new fights you can bet that it would be a LOT longer than 120 minutes. Ideally, 120 minutes is what it would take a good group who knew the fights. A team who is just learning and progressing might take all night. When you look at from that perspective, the best reward is your fractal level increasing by 1 more than any loot you can get.

I can totally see another fractal level reset over the horizon if they change the instabilities. Prepare yourselves.

What I’d love to see is a PVP reward system.

• Let us choose our maps
• Each map has it’s own reward with a heavy DR on repetition.
• Pristine’s every ~4 maps worth
• Reward paths lead to fractal weapon chests or Ascended weapon chest depending on what you pick.
• This could lead very easily into a gambit system for extra Path progression.

I’d love to see this to let me play the maps I want to play when I want to play them. If I wanted rewards I’d be encouraged to do each fractal path each day to avoid the heavy DR on path xp, but it would also give me an option to repeat content for the fun of it.

While of course I agree with Nike when asking for additional mechanics, I do love the idea of gambits. They just seem like a nice easy way to create scaling difficulty with a single umbrella system. I mean they could simply be activating multiple current instabilities.

Again though, love the idea of additional mechanics. Maybe something like giving Archie a Lift attack, he’ll float up and if he is interrupted, boom drop down, nothing happens of course. If you can’t/fail to do that he’ll send out a 3 pronged attack, first he’ll suck everyone in, second he’ll pulse a heavy agony attack with some additional damage both of these unblockable/dodgeable to encourage the correct response of the interrupt, and the third part being a deadly wave of damage, the idea being you’re punished for simply relying on block/dodge but utilizing them lets you survive if you fail at interrupting. /shrug just an idea. Again mechanics would be cool, but Gambits would let us go further with just one big change and I think that’d be cool.

Gyler.8150:

I can totally see another fractal level reset over the horizon if they change the instabilities. Prepare yourselves.

I don’t really like mind getting reseted but what I mind is

• Getting reseted without any real reason
• Not a single word from a developer explaining the situation
• Getting a worse system in return

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think there should be multiple ways to get the same thing. That always leads one being favored unless they are carefully balanced which requires lots of participation from developers.

What I’m saying that current instability system doesn’t work because people can just choose the path of least resistance and skip them. Similar gambit system wouldn’t also work because people would just pick the best gambits.

---

Personally I think we need fractals 3.0 with active community involvement during development. We have here lots of experienced players who can point out any problems before any development even begins. At least for me it was pretty obvious that instabilities wouldn’t work as planned.

I have few times mentioned my idea and can expand it if needed but here is a summary:

• Create separate progression for every map (split up RNG paths)
• Connect different instabilities directly to specific maps
• Intensify / add effects further you progress
• At end of progression open up a new scale with numerically stronger enemies
• Add daily which requires doing specific level (= path & progression combination)
• Give a fractal weapon / tonic / etc. at end of progression
• Add fractal weapon sets with different colors for higher scales

This would:

• Shorten minimum time needed to progress
• Allow playing / practicing any maps
• Remove RNG from progression
• Allow more interesting and meaningful instabilities
• Allow near infinite progression while keeping it expandable
• Give lots “meaningful” of content with different instability combinations

The random elements are not objectively bad.

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think there should be multiple ways to get the same thing. That always leads one being favored unless they are carefully balanced which requires lots of participation from developers.

What I’m saying that current instability system doesn’t work because people can just choose the path of least resistance and skip them. Similar gambit system wouldn’t also work because people would just pick the best gambits.

---

Personally I think we need fractals 3.0 with active community involvement during development. We have here lots of experienced players who can point out any problems before any development even begins. At least for me it was pretty obvious that instabilities wouldn’t work as planned.

I have few times mentioned my idea and can expand it if needed but here is a summary:

• Create separate progression for every map (split up RNG paths)
• Connect different instabilities directly to specific maps
• Intensify / add effects further you progress
• At end of progression open up a new scale with numerically stronger enemies
• Add daily which requires doing specific level (= path & progression combination)
• Give a fractal weapon / tonic / etc. at end of progression
• Add fractal weapon sets with different colors for higher scales

This would:

• Shorten minimum time needed to progress
• Allow playing / practicing any maps
• Remove RNG from progression
• Allow more interesting and meaningful instabilities
• Allow near infinite progression while keeping it expandable
• Give lots “meaningful” of content with different instability combinations

The random elements are not objectively bad.

Maybe not, but I’ve found it to be a pretty common opinion, both in terms of loot and in terms of map selection. There are some fractals I simply don’t enjoy (looking at you snowblind) and others I love (<3 you Mai Trin) with that though, sometimes getting a Mai trin after a particularly nasty run can just lead to incredible frustration and make you not want to touch fractals for a while.

While sure, can’t really say it’s objectively bad, but it sure does lead to a lot of anger and resentment, not something that’s all that great in a game.

Jerus.4350:

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think there should be multiple ways to get the same thing. That always leads one being favored unless they are carefully balanced which requires lots of participation from developers.

What I’m saying that current instability system doesn’t work because people can just choose the path of least resistance and skip them. Similar gambit system wouldn’t also work because people would just pick the best gambits.

---

Personally I think we need fractals 3.0 with active community involvement during development. We have here lots of experienced players who can point out any problems before any development even begins. At least for me it was pretty obvious that instabilities wouldn’t work as planned.

I have few times mentioned my idea and can expand it if needed but here is a summary:

• Create separate progression for every map (split up RNG paths)
• Connect different instabilities directly to specific maps
• Intensify / add effects further you progress
• At end of progression open up a new scale with numerically stronger enemies
• Add daily which requires doing specific level (= path & progression combination)
• Give a fractal weapon / tonic / etc. at end of progression
• Add fractal weapon sets with different colors for higher scales

This would:

• Shorten minimum time needed to progress
• Allow playing / practicing any maps
• Remove RNG from progression
• Allow more interesting and meaningful instabilities
• Allow near infinite progression while keeping it expandable
• Give lots “meaningful” of content with different instability combinations

The random elements are not objectively bad.

Maybe not, but I’ve found it to be a pretty common opinion, both in terms of loot and in terms of map selection. There are some fractals I simply don’t enjoy (looking at you snowblind) and others I love (<3 you Mai Trin) with that though, sometimes getting a Mai trin after a particularly nasty run can just lead to incredible frustration and make you not want to touch fractals for a while.

While sure, can’t really say it’s objectively bad, but it sure does lead to a lot of anger and resentment, not something that’s all that great in a game.

fractals have only been able to last as long as they have in terms of entertaining people due to the random elements imo.
If you always could select the map you wanted, people would just repeat the same maps over and over again.

yes its frustrating to get maps you dont like, but thats part of the challenge, not always getting the map you are optimized for, or even like.
Its like if you could pick what pitch your opponent would throw in baseball
or if you could always shoot from whatever position you wanted to in basketball.

… dungeons aren’t random and yet they’re far far far more popular (yes rewards are a huge part of this).

I do hear you on the picking the same easy fractals each time, but that’s why I suggest a complete overhaul of the system to promote doing them all in a day, doing a full tour of fractals changing from doing a 10,20,30,40,50 or whatever to doing each fractal on 50.

Dunno if this has been already suggested, but Zommoros might be of some help in the FotM skin problem. Just add the possibility to throw 4 skins into MF and get a random one in return. Usual stuff. That way it’s still grindy and rare, but if you happen to be extremely unlucky with the FotM drops themselves, you get a few extra chances in the MF depending on how much other skins you have hoarded.

phys.7689:

The random elements are not objectively bad.

They are bad for hard difficulty because eventually your ability to progress depends on getting right fractals.

My suggestion also included daily fractal quest with random fractals which would be equal to current daily rewards.

If rewards are improved that should be enough to keep people playing without RNG.

But at the same time you could also just remove the map tiers and use the PvP map vote system. That way you keep a small amount of RNG but you give players a little more choice. It allows groups to avoid getting the same fractals when they repeat tiers. Im sure you can imagine how irritating it is to get cliffside on 30, 40 and 50 in a single day.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Dunno if this has been already suggested, but Zommoros might be of some help in the FotM skin problem. Just add the possibility to throw 4 skins into MF and get a random one in return. Usual stuff. That way it’s still grindy and rare, but if you happen to be extremely unlucky with the FotM drops themselves, you get a few extra chances in the MF depending on how much other skins you have hoarded.

The problem with these sort of MF ideas is they dont really solve the problem. Chances are you wont get what you want anyway. And also for some people that have all the skins they want its a total waste. Best to just offer trade in options or make rewards vendorable for decent prices. Rewards should always feel rewarding even if you already have them. Which is why they should either be tradeable, vendor for a good price or have the option to trade them in for something else we can use.

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

The random elements are not objectively bad.

They are bad for hard difficulty because eventually your ability to progress depends on getting right fractals.

My suggestion also included daily fractal quest with random fractals which would be equal to current daily rewards.

Its ok, and even reccomended that some facet of a game be beyond a single players control.

I think it would be fine however to let people select fractals for some type of limited fractal mode, but the main progression and rewards should be based around having to adapt to the unknown.

spoj.9672:

If rewards are improved that should be enough to keep people playing without RNG.

But at the same time you could also just remove the map tiers and use the PvP map vote system. That way you keep a small amount of RNG but you give players a little more choice. It allows groups to avoid getting the same fractals when they repeat tiers. Im sure you can imagine how irritating it is to get cliffside on 30, 40 and 50 in a single day.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Dunno if this has been already suggested, but Zommoros might be of some help in the FotM skin problem. Just add the possibility to throw 4 skins into MF and get a random one in return. Usual stuff. That way it’s still grindy and rare, but if you happen to be extremely unlucky with the FotM drops themselves, you get a few extra chances in the MF depending on how much other skins you have hoarded.

The problem with these sort of MF ideas is they dont really solve the problem. Chances are you wont get what you want anyway. And also for some people that have all the skins they want its a total waste. Best to just offer trade in options or make rewards vendorable for decent prices. Rewards should always feel rewarding even if you already have them. Which is why they should either be tradeable, vendor for a good price or have the option to trade them in for something else we can use.

i agree that some sort of means of mitigating, or reducing the effect of the random might be a good idea.
Perhaps they could have some sort of mini level/challenge that allows you to eliminate a possible choice.
the cost for this would basically be an extra zone/time/challenge every time you want to eliminate an option.

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

The random elements are not objectively bad.

They are bad for hard difficulty because eventually your ability to progress depends on getting right fractals.

My suggestion also included daily fractal quest with random fractals which would be equal to current daily rewards.

Its ok, and even reccomended that some facet of a game be beyond a single players control.

I think it would be fine however to let people select fractals for some type of limited fractal mode, but the main progression and rewards should be based around having to adapt to the unknown.

It’s not really unknown once you have played fractals few times. You know all available options so there isn’t really anything to adapt.

It’s a fact that with high enough difficulty the ability to progress is solely dictated by which maps you get. That’s something I don’t see worth recommending.

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

The random elements are not objectively bad.

They are bad for hard difficulty because eventually your ability to progress depends on getting right fractals.

My suggestion also included daily fractal quest with random fractals which would be equal to current daily rewards.

Its ok, and even reccomended that some facet of a game be beyond a single players control.

I think it would be fine however to let people select fractals for some type of limited fractal mode, but the main progression and rewards should be based around having to adapt to the unknown.

It’s not really unknown once you have played fractals few times. You know all available options so there isn’t really anything to adapt.

It’s a fact that with high enough difficulty the ability to progress is solely dictated by which maps you get. That’s something I don’t see worth recommending.

by ability to progress do you mean time wise, or just being beatable.
I dont think they should design anything thats unbeatable

Well we do actually already have some examples of what Weth is talking about. Some fractals + instability combinations are ridiculously hard. Not unbeatable. But most casual groups would definitely give up and try to avoid that map. For example fractal 44 when you get volcanic. My group was fortunate enough to get this when we were rushing to 50. It was the hardest thing weve ever done and not because we were unfamiliar with the encounter. It was because the instability completely counters the imbued shaman fight.

Thing is Mai trin is quite a bit tougher than the duo, and duo is a heck of a lot harder than Maw. The imbalance in end boss difficulty is there, while currently for most groups this isn’t an issue, however if you’re struggling getting Mai is a death sentence while getting maw will leave you all cheering and thanking god. If we get more levels or any increased difficulty I can’t help but feel that we’d see these things only becoming more of an issue.

I still REALLY want to bea ble to choose my fractal and have fractal based rewards instead of this series of 4 thing like I outlined in my previous post. However, maybe like spoj suggested with the PVP style vote system, you’d have a 1 in each to start and your group could overload options they’d prefer, at least get the RNG to lean our direction. Again, I still think we should be able to choose them.

I think being able to pick which fractal you get would be really cool, but unless they did a complete overhaul with balancing it would be the same 3 base fractals and boss every single time. I can’t say I enjoy some (cliffside for example) as much as others. But I would personally prefer that fractals didn’t turn into CoF p1 speed runs.

Kronos.2560:

I think being able to pick which fractal you get would be really cool, but unless they did a complete overhaul with balancing it would be the same 3 base fractals and boss every single time. I can’t say I enjoy some (cliffside for example) as much as others. But I would personally prefer that fractals didn’t turn into CoF p1 speed runs.

Just do a dynamic balancing of rewards. You could use a bunch of different metrics to help with that, but one of those would be how many people pick a certain fractal. If 90% of players pick Atherblade for the third fractal because it’s laughably easy, and only 2% of players pick Volcanic, Volcanic should have a lot higher reward than Atherblade. You can dynamically rebalance these rewards (lets say, daily) as per a formula as the variables change. You’ll have some volatility at first, but eventually things will settle down pretty nicely, and even people looking for exclusively for efficient runs in terms of rewards/time (which might happen if rewards ever get significantly increased? Who knows.) will have a tough call to make on which fractal to choose.

You could even tie this into the daily system (if people could pick what to choose). Instead of “Daily 1-10 Fractal” you could instead have “Daily Snowblind Fractal”. Heck, one of the draws of the daily could be something like 50% increased reward for that specific fractal.

Kronos.2560:

I think being able to pick which fractal you get would be really cool, but unless they did a complete overhaul with balancing it would be the same 3 base fractals and boss every single time. I can’t say I enjoy some (cliffside for example) as much as others. But I would personally prefer that fractals didn’t turn into CoF p1 speed runs.

even if they were balanced, it would still be COF, people would master 3 of them, and ignore the rest, just like COF isnt really the fastest possible path ever no matter what. Its just one of the easier paths that caught on.

You would also get more class tailoring for those 3 paths specifically.

when you eliminate variables, you also limit the number of possible solutions. Defeating 3 random paths from a large pool, will not create the same meta as defeating 3 pre chosen paths.

phys.7689:

Kronos.2560:

I think being able to pick which fractal you get would be really cool, but unless they did a complete overhaul with balancing it would be the same 3 base fractals and boss every single time. I can’t say I enjoy some (cliffside for example) as much as others. But I would personally prefer that fractals didn’t turn into CoF p1 speed runs.

even if they were balanced, it would still be COF, people would master 3 of them, and ignore the rest, just like COF isnt really the fastest possible path ever no matter what. Its just one of the easier paths that caught on.

You would also get more class tailoring for those 3 paths specifically.

when you eliminate variables, you also limit the number of possible solutions. Defeating 3 random paths from a large pool, will not create the same meta as defeating 3 pre chosen paths.

That’s the thing, if they changed the system of rewards as a whole then why would it be just 3 (I assume you meant 4 though, don’t forget yous tart with swamp )?

Like I suggested earlier, if you gave rewards for each individual fractal, eliminating the 4 fractal rotation = reward system, then you’d be encouraged to do them all daily, especially if they could implement a dynamic reward scaling as Zui suggested (something I’d really like to see in the game in general).

Jerus.4350:

phys.7689:

Kronos.2560:

I think being able to pick which fractal you get would be really cool, but unless they did a complete overhaul with balancing it would be the same 3 base fractals and boss every single time. I can’t say I enjoy some (cliffside for example) as much as others. But I would personally prefer that fractals didn’t turn into CoF p1 speed runs.

even if they were balanced, it would still be COF, people would master 3 of them, and ignore the rest, just like COF isnt really the fastest possible path ever no matter what. Its just one of the easier paths that caught on.

You would also get more class tailoring for those 3 paths specifically.

when you eliminate variables, you also limit the number of possible solutions. Defeating 3 random paths from a large pool, will not create the same meta as defeating 3 pre chosen paths.

That’s the thing, if they changed the system of rewards as a whole then why would it be just 3 (I assume you meant 4 though, don’t forget yous tart with swamp )?

Like I suggested earlier, if you gave rewards for each individual fractal, eliminating the 4 fractal rotation = reward system, then you’d be encouraged to do them all daily, especially if they could implement a dynamic reward scaling as Zui suggested (something I’d really like to see in the game in general).

yes, reward scaling based on difficulty/how much people complete a path is something i am all for, and have suggested in the past.
Its the type of thing that can be useful for almost all types of encounters in the game.
jumping puzzles
dungeons
events
fractals

Instabilities are useless as long as they remain level bound. Most of the people in my guild that do high level fractals do level 38, because it has the easiest instability. Level 38 is posion, chill, and confusion have unintended side effects. level 39 is enemies explode on death. Level 37 is damaged enemies get boons when unattended. Why would anyone do level 39 when the reward isn’t that much better than 38? Or level 42, where you can’t dodge as much, is surrounded by playing favorites, where untargeted enemies take half damage, and bloodlust, combat is agonizing. Why do 41 or 43, then? There’s tons of mistlock instabilities programmed into the game, but why not just repeat agonizing expedition twice? It seems like this is another poorly supported feature.

Becka Williams.4978:

Instabilities are useless as long as they remain level bound. Most of the people in my guild that do high level fractals do level 38, because it has the easiest instability. Level 38 is posion, chill, and confusion have unintended side effects. level 39 is enemies explode on death. Level 37 is damaged enemies get boons when unattended. Why would anyone do level 39 when the reward isn’t that much better than 38? Or level 42, where you can’t dodge as much, is surrounded by playing favorites, where untargeted enemies take half damage, and bloodlust, combat is agonizing. Why do 41 or 43, then? There’s tons of mistlock instabilities programmed into the game, but why not just repeat agonizing expedition twice? It seems like this is another poorly supported feature.

i think instabilities are an interesting proposition, the problem is it doesnt mesh well with their advancement system.

instabilities should have always been a separate system.
the whole structure when they re did fractured didnt really make sense.
they should have separated out mechanical difficulty and instabilities.

they should let mechanical difficulty increase your chances,

and designed difficulty unlocks effect what you can possibly get

this would also make new fractal content accessible by more players

Since we are talking about adding simlar stuff from other games.

There is an old ps1 game called jade cocoon and the " late gane " for that is a never ending forest that scales up and counts how many forests you do.

So if we kepted the same 3 fractals and a boss although, after the bosss it asks you if you want to continue or go back to the lab. Then of course, the more you do, the harder it gets, nicer rewards and soon on.

The biggest problem with this idea though is in jade cocoon, the drop rates are very low , so you dont really fill up your bag space where as guild wars people will have half full – full bags at the end of the boss fractal.

Edit: I forgot to add that also for this idea they could use that er.. posudo random? ( idk what its called ) for choosing the levels. That rng that gets better the more times you roll like the rng that rage simulater uses ( dota 2 ). So for about the first 20 fractal bits you do, youll have some double ups although in the end you will run all fractal stages. Then the rng can reset or something like that

Sarahfull.4930:

Since we are talking about adding simlar stuff from other games.

There is an old ps1 game called jade cocoon and the " late gane " for that is a never ending forest that scales up and counts how many forests you do.

So if we kepted the same 3 fractals and a boss although, after the bosss it asks you if you want to continue or go back to the lab. Then of course, the more you do, the harder it gets, nicer rewards and soon on.

The biggest problem with this idea though is in jade cocoon, the drop rates are very low , so you dont really fill up your bag space where as guild wars people will have half full – full bags at the end of the boss fractal.

Easy fix the same way we leave to repair, just take turns quickly popping out to LA. I like the idea though, buff for each consecutive run.

So many good ideas have been posted here, I really hope they do something to make fractals more interesting.

What about a daily rotation sort of? Where everyday you at reset you get different fractals? Can pair short fractals with long ones so that you never get cliffside + dredge and whatnot?

Wethospu.6437:

Gyler.8150:

I can totally see another fractal level reset over the horizon if they change the instabilities. Prepare yourselves.

I don’t really like mind getting reseted but what I mind is

• Getting reseted without any real reason
• Not a single word from a developer explaining the situation
• Getting a worse system in return

There were words from the developers! they talked about errors in wording and that they’ll “think about it then get back at us”. And that fractal boxes were never meant to be in the game at this stage.
How can you even say there was no communication. They communicated alright!
/laugh

Fractals need to be more rewarding, currently they’re less rewarding than farming SW or dungeons, that’s wrong.

Shiyo.3578:

Fractals need to be more rewarding, currently they’re less rewarding than farming SW or dungeons, that’s wrong.

Whats wrong, would be turning it into another dungeon tour. The rewards should not be THAT good

What? There’s already a couple of fractals included in the “daily dungeon tour”, at least where I am now. What is that supposed to mean? Sure, you can do those for the pure pleasure of it, but it’s not like upping the rewards magically makes 50-60-whatever easier and now EVERYONE can farm fractals like cursed shore.

Sarahfull.4930:

Shiyo.3578:

Fractals need to be more rewarding, currently they’re less rewarding than farming SW or dungeons, that’s wrong.

Whats wrong, would be turning it into another dungeon tour. The rewards should not be THAT good

Why? It’s the hardest content in the game.

Shiyo.3578:

Sarahfull.4930:

Shiyo.3578:

Fractals need to be more rewarding, currently they’re less rewarding than farming SW or dungeons, that’s wrong.

Whats wrong, would be turning it into another dungeon tour. The rewards should not be THAT good

Why? It’s the hardest content in the game.

Like I said in a previous post, personally I just don’t want the dynamic of the fractal community to change. When it becomes all about farming and the gold you create a different mindset in the people running it. Look at dungeons, many people ONLY care about running them quickly, if it doesn’t go smoothly they get kittened off immediately and start raging. Fractals currently have that expectation of failure. Why? Because it’s not about gold/hour, it’s about getting it done, whatever it takes.

I’m all for making it more rewarding in a way that isn’t the universal gold currency. I’d love to see more fractal based rewards. More account bound stuff like ascended. More rewards would be awesome. But, making it into a gold farm… not so much.

I think this is at least one of the reasons there are people who enjoy fractals more than dungeons. It’s a different goal. I don’t check my gold after running a few fractals. I don’t try and calculate my earnings. I simply had fun doing it. I look for better ways to run them for the fun of it. When I get frustrated it’s not “OMG their DPS sucks” it’s simply me being frustrated with my own lack of performance on encounters, it’s the fun I was missing before I embraced fractals. I don’t want that to change.

I realize some people have everything they want from fractals. Well, maybe we can get them to release different hues of the weapons? Maybe whole new skins? Who wouldn’t want a set of fractal armor? Maybe this is asking too much but we can hope right? Ok… the pessimist in me is saying who am I kidding, but I will say I would much rather fractals stay out of the goldfarming agenda and more in it’s own rewards system. I don’t want the idea of gold/hour to even be mentioned when talkinga bout fractals, or at least if it is that people are continuing to say it’s bad, because I don’t want that to be what it’s about.

well, fractals should be so hard at some point, that its impossible to speedrun them and the difficulty would be to beat the content.

if thats the case you can add w/e to the rewards and it will be ok.

Jerus.4350:

Shiyo.3578:

Sarahfull.4930:

Shiyo.3578:

Fractals need to be more rewarding, currently they’re less rewarding than farming SW or dungeons, that’s wrong.

Whats wrong, would be turning it into another dungeon tour. The rewards should not be THAT good

Why? It’s the hardest content in the game.

Like I said in a previous post, personally I just don’t want the dynamic of the fractal community to change. When it becomes all about farming and the gold you create a different mindset in the people running it. Look at dungeons, many people ONLY care about running them quickly, if it doesn’t go smoothly they get kittened off immediately and start raging. Fractals currently have that expectation of failure. Why? Because it’s not about gold/hour, it’s about getting it done, whatever it takes.

I’m all for making it more rewarding in a way that isn’t the universal gold currency. I’d love to see more fractal based rewards. More account bound stuff like ascended. More rewards would be awesome. But, making it into a gold farm… not so much.

I think this is at least one of the reasons there are people who enjoy fractals more than dungeons. It’s a different goal. I don’t check my gold after running a few fractals. I don’t try and calculate my earnings. I simply had fun doing it. I look for better ways to run them for the fun of it. When I get frustrated it’s not “OMG their DPS sucks” it’s simply me being frustrated with my own lack of performance on encounters, it’s the fun I was missing before I embraced fractals. I don’t want that to change.

I realize some people have everything they want from fractals. Well, maybe we can get them to release different hues of the weapons? Maybe whole new skins? Who wouldn’t want a set of fractal armor? Maybe this is asking too much but we can hope right? Ok… the pessimist in me is saying who am I kidding, but I will say I would much rather fractals stay out of the goldfarming agenda and more in it’s own rewards system. I don’t want the idea of gold/hour to even be mentioned when talkinga bout fractals, or at least if it is that people are continuing to say it’s bad, because I don’t want that to be what it’s about.

I don’t know this “Fractal community” that you speak of because I don’t PUG, so I can’t really comment on the existence of this community.
The reason why people have a more lenient attitude towards failure in Fractals is probably related to them being harder and longer. It’s easy to disband a group in a 10min dungeon but not after a 60min PUG fotm 50 when people keep dying to the shaman simply because you’ve invested 60 minutes and it would take longer to find a new group. I don’t think this leniency would change if Fractals were more rewarding than dungeons for extremely experienced and ambitious hardcore PvE players (and only for them).
I want (yes, just me personally) Fractals to be more rewarding than dungeons because they are the hardest content. Simple as that. Since I don’t participate in any sort of community this is of no concern to me. Rewarding in this context does not mean monetary though, I would rather have a predictable way of acquiring skins (and maybe armor in the future).

I don’t disagree with either of you. I just really don’t want to see it become what most dungeons have, a race to that pot of gold where each hiccup is a cause of frustration because you just want to get out of there.

There are dozens of good options to make fractals more rewarding, I just don’t think increasing the cash reward is the right way is all.

I kind of agree with Jerus, I find it way more fun to run fractals than dungeons because it tests my concentration and my skill and the groups end up being more experienced and having more fun. But yes rewards need to be made better…im relatively new, have only been playing for like 7 months with one long break in between so im always looking for gold to get nice skins. But i agree the gold reward should not match that of dungeons. Instead why not just increase the chances for asc wep/armor and frac wep boxes, adding a reliable way to get fractal weapons, and then adding in a new tier of weapons. the new tier being restricted to levels 50-80, where you get another token for the reliable method of geting a weapon and a chance at a box for the weapon. They could make totally new skins or make better looking fractal ones (not sure how) kind of how zenith skins have their pinnacle counterpart. Making a new tier would also keep players who have all the skin, or most of them, something to work towards.

Who talked about monetary reward only in specific?
Making fractals harder and increasing a lot the rewards wouldn’t make it a ragequit fest, probably the opposite… unless the difficulty of the highest levels were too high for pugs.
Which would be good for me, but whatever, I won’t advocate it openly.
Man, I wish it were like gw1’s elite zones
#getsmashed

hybrid.5027:

As Weth said, instabilities/gambits just create simple systems that can be and are being gamed.

The real solution is to increase the boss mechanics as you go up tiers. No extra HP sponge / extra damage gimmicks like the original 50-80 fractals. Legit, difficult raid style mechanics. Archdiviner at 80 should be akin to one of the medium difficulty Wildstar raid bosses. Ofcourse this is difficult to program and time consuming for devs. But the end result would be, by far, the best content in the game.

My proposal…

51-60: Bosses get one additional mechanic to add complexity to the fight, ideally a coordination check or a CC check. No more rings on loot table. Ring drops replaced with greater chance at ascended loot boxes (pickable stats) and fractal weapon boxes rarely 10-20% (pickable skin). will be challenging for pug groups, slightly more difficult then a 50 for organized teams. 5g for completion bonus + 10s per level. Expected 30-60 mins for organized team.

61-70: Bosses become akin to hardmode raid bosses, roughly equal to one of the first few Wildstar raid bosses. Complicated AOE patterns, CC checks, coordination checks. Extremely challenging for pug groups, challenging for organized groups. Rewards would be 34% chance at fractal weapon box, 66% chance for ascended weapon/armor box (pick stats). 10g for completion at 61+10s per level above. 60-90 mins for organized team.

71-80: Bosses become akin to traditional nightmare mode raid bosses in complexity, roughly equal to a moderate difficulty Wildstar raid boss. Same checks as previous tier but increased individual responsibility, such as mechanics that require the team to split up to different sections of the arena to accomplish individual challenging tasks. Virtually impossible for a pug groups, extremely challenging for organized team. 25g for completion+10s per level, 50% chance at a fractal weapon box AND 100% chance ascended gear box (pick stats). 90-120 mins for organized team.

Surely we won’t get anything like this, but it would provide a framework for challenging group content utilizing increasingly complex mechanics. And the loot is technically the same stuff at each tier (just more as you go up) so casuals can’t complain that the skill gate is keeping them away from some prestige item.

Additional reward: As you level up when you reach a new tier you unlock a new title to show off how far you’ve progressed. Once you hit 80 you get “Fractal Master” which is a title one would well and truly deserve if this prop was implemented.

-Nike

While the rewards may need to be tweaked a bit, I feel this post is an excellent representation of what the future of Fractal progression should look like. Fractals have already been scaled up as high as they should go without adding new mechanics instead of overall tankiness. And for 51-60 at least, PLEASE don’t add any more AOE/one-shot boss mechanics. I think that something like this would be more interesting:

• Cliffside: In addition to the stacking debuff, the hammer must complete a full rotation through the party before being picked up again by the same individual.

This would make things much harder for uncoordinated groups, but be doable by experienced and coordinated players.

In regards to Mistlock Instabilities, I think that they’re an excellent idea but as many others have stated, they are widely unbalanced and there is no real incentive to run the more difficult ones. Instead of rebalancing them however, I feel that an incentive should simply be added to coerce players into completing each one. An achievement maybe?

• The Stabilizer: Complete a full fractal rotation with each Mistlock Instability active. Scales up to 10AP at 20/20.

10AP wouldn’t be enough to make most people run these, so I feel that an additional reward would be necessary. I would like to see it tied to the “freebie” Fractal Weapon box I mentioned earlier from achievements, or if a dedicated way to purchase them is introduced then it should instead reward a bunch of Pristine Relics. A “The Stabilizer” title would be pretty neat as well

Essentially what I’m getting at is that while the current rewards system is in place (with skins remaining the only prestigious item), players should be expected to fully complete Fractals 1-50 to receive ONE skin of their choice, and 51+ in order to receive more or complete the collection.

I would like them to remove the randomness out of fractals. This means randomness in rewards as well as randomness which fractals you get.

My idea is the following:
Allow the players to chose whatever fractal they want. This does also mean, that there is no longer a series of 4 fractals that has to be beaten. Each fractal rewards with gold and fractal relicts that are appropriate to the difficulty and length of the fractal. For a certain amount of fractal relicts (should be high enough) players can buy fractal skins and ascended armor chests.
Furthermore, each fractal should give the endreward more than once per day, at least three or four times. This encourages social play, because you still get the reward when you are helping out friends/guildmates that are e.g. 2/5 players and need 3 more players. Maybe more than four times wouldn’t make much sense, because it could lead to excessive farming of the same fractal over and over again.

Another important point is long time motivation for veteran players. Veteran players probably already have multiple characters with ascended armor and many/all fractal weapon skins. To give those players a new aim and a new motivation, i suggest the implementation of skin upgrades of the fractal skins, or maybe new fractal skins. For those skins you need aditionally to normal fractal relicts new relicts, that only drop at level 50+.
Like suggested before, i also support the implementation of fractal armor, which also should need some materials that are only available at level 50+.

Lendruil.9061:

I would like them to remove the randomness out of fractals. This means randomness in rewards as well as randomness which fractals you get.
.

This sounds like something that would work perfectly with the new fractal masteries progression system they will be introducing – you get to a certain mastery level in the fractal line and you get the ability to choose the fractal map(s) you play on.

Same with rewards like fractal skins – reaching certain levels gives you the ability to choose a specific skin.

Just a thought.

Shiyo.3578:

Sarahfull.4930:

Shiyo.3578:

Fractals need to be more rewarding, currently they’re less rewarding than farming SW or dungeons, that’s wrong.

Whats wrong, would be turning it into another dungeon tour. The rewards should not be THAT good

Why? It’s the hardest content in the game.

Just cause its the hardest content doesnt mean it should give the best rewards per hour. Yes it should reward you, although if your after making the most coin per hour fractals shouldnt be a choice in the matter, you have dungeon tour and silverwaste.

I believe the fractal content should be upgraded first, then work on the rewards. I dont think both can be balanced if worked on together.

I will say that guild wars2 is the only mmo that Ive played although Im sure no other game has the " hardest content " as the best coin per hour.

Alright, some really good posts so far, so thank you for that!

Firstly, I’ll say that I personally as a player fall into the camp that agrees with Nike, and I personally like the random Fractal approach we have right now. It is part of what Fractals were designed around, and is part of their replayability for me. It keeps what might otherwise be a monotonous task of completing a Fractal series enjoyable because I at least get different experiences each time. Also, I would never pick Cliffside if I were given the option to avoid it (it’s too long), and I would pick Grawl every time.

As for rewards, I am very familiar with the problems there and am definitely on board with the notion that the hardest content in-game should be the most rewarding.

As for selecting Fractals, I agree that being able to play a single Fractal of choice for practice and not for a full series reward is a great idea. This is important both for the speed running community that needs to be able to select a Fractal for purposes of clearing it, but also for practicing with friends new tactics. Based on discussion here, I think a good approach would be:

• If you run a normal series by entering the Portal in the Mistlock Observatory, you will still encounter 4 random Fractals and will get the end rewards as normal.
• If you talk to Tessa and have her teleport your team to a specific Fractal, you will get that Fractal only and then be returned to the observatory, and the only rewards you get is the end chest at the end of that specific Fractal.

As for challenging higher tiers, there seems to be a lot of support for Nike’s proposal, taking ultimately the following form:

• Higher tiers introduce new boss mechanics with increasingly supremely difficult challenges that teams will need to overcome. (I will link to Nike’s post)
• No new mistlock instabilities at higher levels. (Maybe it could be like L50’s instability at every level thereafter)
• Add a collection achievement and title for completing every Mistlock Instability from 30 to 50. They could have each level give a unique ‘token’ item that contributes to the collection to do this.

Besides these things, what do you think should happen to the normal encounters throughout the Fractals (not the bosses) at higher tiers? Everyone opposes more HP, more damage, and more mobs, so what else would you like to see? I don’t think more events / paths are appropriate because that requires a lot of terrain/scripting work, but maybe there’s something that could be done.