Guild Wars 2

This is a brainstorm topic for a possible community rating system. Nothing has been done yet and not exactly sure when I have enough time.

The goal of this system is to reduce negative behavior in dungeons and fractals by adding a consequence. This negative behavior includes:

• Kicking people randomly
• Stealing instances
• Not delivering what promised
• Not reading LFG messages
• Being nasty

The system would contain two components, viewer and rater.

The viewer would allow anyone search the database. The viewer would ask an account or a character name and return his/her rating. Additionally the viewer could show the best or the worst players.

The rater would allow people rate other people. This would require authentication with GW2 account by using the API. After login, the rater would ask for a character name and/or account name. Then it would ask is the person a party member, a buyer or a seller. Then it would ask for the rating.

Rating options for a party member:

• Player was helpful.
• Player was ok.
• Player didn’t meet the LFG criteria.
• Player was rude.
• Player kicked me without a reason.
• Player exploited.

Rating options for a buyer:

• Buyer was good.
• Buyer was ok.
• Buyer didn’t send gold.
• Buyer stole the instance.

Rating options for a seller:

• Service was good.
• Service was ok.
• Seller kicked me after receiving the gold
• Seller used exploits to complete the instance

Additionally the rater would have an option for a video link which can be used to prove negative behavior. Human admins would approve the evidence and give huge negative rating.

The biggest concern is people abusing the system. Bunch of people could easily ruin the whole thing by downvoting reputable people. Some kind of a system to flag suspicious behavior would be needed and real people to verify and ban the people.

All in all, not sure if the whole thing would be really worth of the initial and continuous effort. Feel free to leave your ideas or comments!

I see huge problems with “player kicked me randomly”.

Eg:
player A,B,C vote kick player D.
Player I didn’t do anything wrong!
Player A: you kept putting defiance stacks on a boss before we could freeze it, even though we asked you not to.
Player I was knocking it down for 2 whole seconds and I use paralyzation sigil!

Alternatively:
Player it was about to do his 1hit ko, and I interrupted it.

or:
Player A wants to use strategy Z.
Players B,C,D want to use strategy X.
Player A begins explaining why strategy Z is better.
Player B,C,D: elitist jerk! /kick.

You’re pretty much going to need judges and juries for this..
And keeping that impartial and uncorrupted is going to be a very difficult task.

its far to wipe open for abuse.

Yes, on all hostile encounters people would probably just downvote each other. But on average the guy who always participates in those encounters would end up with the worst rating.

If you play normally it should be fairly easy to keep up positive rating even if you sometimes get downvoted, excluding of course coordinated abuse.

Every system can (and usualy is) abused so it’s very hard to construct rules that can help the community and won’t harm innocent people. Usually the most toxic players are the ones who will attempt to misuse system for their own advantage. (Imagine mid-sized guild where members will upvote each other)

Personally I would preffer application of the dungeon rules that were used in World of Warcraft. Augmented for GW2 LFG system, of course.

I would put some extra rules on party kicks for example, I really don’t like current GW2 state that any 2 players can remove you from party at their free will at any time. Especially in FOTM which are pretty time consumming.

For example:
-party kicks will be unlocked after three wipes on a single boss where each attempt had at least 120 seconds duration.
-party kicks will be unlocked on characters who are flagged AFK – 120 seconds without activity (damage to the boss, for example)
-make it harder to kick someone in 3/4 and 4/4 fotm dungeon. Longer queues for example.

From other games that I have played that uses a rating system, trolling a person’s rating is rare and on average will not severely impact a person’s true rating. If you are a nice person, more people will upvote you than trolls downvoting you.

Problem is, people will go out of their way to downvote other guys, but I don’t see the community coming to rate good sellers or stuff like that.

EcoRI.9273:

From other games that I have played that uses a rating system, trolling a person’s rating is rare and on average will not severely impact a person’s true rating. If you are a nice person, more people will upvote you than trolls downvoting you.

Do you think being an 3rd party site it’d have a large enough sample size to drown it out though? Also how would votes be held, once per day per IP? Once per IP? /shrug, certainly a concern I’d think.

Sounds cool though, be a good way to find more friends if nothing else Just grouped with someone on the forums for the first time last night through the LFG, best Arah runs I’ve had in ages.

There is an authentication API so it would work like login on this forum.

Wethospu.6437:

There is an authentication API so it would work like login on this forum.

Aye just wondering if say I made it my personal mission to downvote Purple Miku as much as possible because I’m jealous of how good he is. Would I be able to log in every day and add another downvote? If the traffic isn’t huge me doing it every chance I got would likely have a pretty big impact wouldn’kitten If it’s just once per person then it’d be a bit different of course. Then I’d have to use alt accounts to do it… down with you Miku! >.< jk just used him as an example for the laughs.

Yes, it would be once per account. If you downvote someone it’s your own fault if you play with him again.

Wethospu.6437:

Yes, it would be once per account. If you downvote someone it’s your own fault if you play with him again.

Sounds like a better way to do it.

Curious though, would you be able to change your vote? Say someone grouped with me and I was all grumpy that day, they downvote me, I group with them again and have a wonderful time, could they amend their vote?

I know I know, bunch of questions, just curious, sounds ilke a cool idea to me that I know I’d be down to participate in.

Looking at Reddit… Shake head…

case: GMOTD : Downvote “Purple Miku” for ROFL reason

case report:
percent of the players who obeyed: low, 13% (hey, lemmings, no need to think about it, just do it …..)
guildsize: 500+
guild core: PUG
score: -68

Robert.8206:

case: GMOTD : Downvote “Purple Miku” for ROFL reason

---

case report:
percent of the players who obeyed: low, 13% (hey, lemmings, no need to think about it, just do it …..)
guildsize: 500+
guild core: PUG
score: -68

Exactly this ^
Some of the more…hm… prominent members of the community would probably feel the wrath of unhappy casuals/trolls. The PHIW/anti-zerker mentality is, I feel, still more prevalent than the meta, and it’s perpetrated by some of the angrier people on the forums IMO.

My other concern is that this tool will be used by too small a fraction of the community to make a difference. In another MMO I played with a player-run rating system, most people had at most 5 or 6 votes. Now, the population in that game was significantly lower than gw2’s, but I feel as though not enough people will rate positive experiences, while people peeved at someone not listening to them or refusing to use subpar pug tactics from months ago WILL rate them negatively, skewing the ratings.

I dont think its worth implementing. Simply because the usage will be low. I know for me im not going to go out of my way to rate people. The only time i might do that was if i was severely griefed and felt compelled to vent my frustration in some way. So it would become more of a blacklist system than an actual rating system.

The total lack of control over people joining your LFGs makes this less useful than it could otherwise be.

I dont mind checking the gw2dungeon.net wall of shame if I think a group is sketchy :-D

spoj.9672:

I dont think its worth implementing. Simply because the usage will be low. I know for me im not going to go out of my way to rate people. The only time i might do that was if i was severely griefed and felt compelled to vent my frustration in some way. So it would become more of a blacklist system than an actual rating system.

I would probably end up using it this way as well. And I think many others will too.

A public wall of shame is also an option. Instead of a rating, an evidence video would be needed.

Jerus.4350:

Wethospu.6437:

Yes, it would be once per account. If you downvote someone it’s your own fault if you play with him again.

Sounds like a better way to do it.

Curious though, would you be able to change your vote? Say someone grouped with me and I was all grumpy that day, they downvote me, I group with them again and have a wonderful time, could they amend their vote?

I know I know, bunch of questions, just curious, sounds ilke a cool idea to me that I know I’d be down to participate in.

Yes, that’s how it would work.

Robert.8206:

case: GMOTD : Downvote “Purple Miku” for ROFL reason

---

case report:
percent of the players who obeyed: low, 13% (hey, lemmings, no need to think about it, just do it …..)
guildsize: 500+
guild core: PUG
score: -68

Someone getting lots of votes would be flagged as suspicious and reviewed by someone. Votes would be removed and a warning/ban/negative score given.

There we go. Anet does such a terrible job at letting us play with the players we want, so that the community is forced to create such big projects. I am always in support of tools which allow me to filter out noobs, trolls and griefers, but I probably won’t be using a 3rd party site as often as I would be using it if it was a game feature.
+1 to Wethospu for a nice idea.
-1 to Anet for not caring about dungeons since… the game was made.

The problem with systems like this is that it would be abused by large networks of people and guilds to artificially tank the community rating of players.

Wethospu.6437:

Robert.8206:

case: GMOTD : Downvote “Purple Miku” for ROFL reason

---

case report:
percent of the players who obeyed: low, 13% (hey, lemmings, no need to think about it, just do it …..)
guildsize: 500+
guild core: PUG
score: -68

Someone getting lots of votes would be flagged as suspicious and reviewed by someone. Votes would be removed and a warning/ban/negative score given.

case report #2:
Moderator of gw2dungeons.net’s will have mailbox full of those messages:

[page 9 of 23]

file #161 : “Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ?” by somebody.XXXX

file #162 : “Please, can you revert my -5 score on the wall of shame ?” by somebodyelse.XXXX
file #163 : “Please, can you revert my -1 score on the wall of shame ? I am too cute to be in red numbers” by 2cute.XXXX
file #164: “Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? trololol” trolololo.XXXX
file #165: “Hello moderator, people in my guild told me it’s possible to edit score on the wall of shame …” whiteshirt.XXXX
file #166: "Hello, I was in FOTM with 3 guild members from [——-] spanish guild. It didn’t went well and they kicked both “randoms” out of the group. Now I found I have -5 score, but I did nothing wrong. It was player [-——] who was bit vocal, not me. Why shall I be on wall of shame ?" mekiq.XXXX
file #167: “Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? trololol” trolololo.XXXX
file #168: “Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? Please, can you revert my -8 score on the wall of shame ? trololol” trolololo.XXXX
file #169: “??? ?? ????” ????.XXXX

…

Now how can moderator decide what “can” be modified ?

There would be no appeal system. Rating system would internally attempt to detect abuse (such as someone getting 50 votes during one day).

This sounds like a ton of work for a system that would see little to no use besides a small group of people that probably know each other already to hate on their bad pugs, that would never see their rating, ever. So you got a bad pug… he may have played 10 hours of this game while you have 5000… do you think it’s fair to go on a 3rd party website and essentially harass him/bar him from future groups even if he ends up playing a lot and becoming a decent player?

I’m not sure why you would spend your time on this. The hardcore players pretty much all know each other by now, and those that you don’t know probably like their regular guild even if they are skilled players.

I can honestly say whether I had a 0/5 rating or 5/5 rating I would not care… because I would not know.

I don’t know a single person who would join a random pug then look them up on a 3rd party website to see if anyone has ever rated them. Waste of time IMO. I look at their profession and their AP, pick my profession and go or leave the group if I see it’s a waste of time. Taking a couple of minutes to look them up on a website they would be done the first part of the dungeon already anyway (or the whole thing if it’s CM).