Guild Wars 2

Description

Simple voting system has been added to http://gw2dungeons.net/Voting. Each week I will create a discussion topic on forums and add relevant polls there, if needed. Guild leaders are given an account which can be used to vote. Polls stay up for one week.

Guild leaders can apply for a vote by sending me your preferred login name and reason why you should have a vote (was in previous rule meetings, have records, etc.) via in-game, forums or email. Optionally you can also give me your email so I can send a reminder about new polls if there hasn’t been any for a while.

Current vote holders:

• Daemoniic [HeX]
• Enko [LOD]
• Deathly [qT]
• Skywalker [TDN]
• Der/p/y Moa [vC]
• Ashlee [geek]
• Jerem [SC]
• Nikephoros [DnT]
• Sanderinoa [rT]
• Veckna [QQ]
• Senior Magic [iG]
• Juliverine [Yoga]

Keep in mind that anyone is free to give their opinion and ideas on this topic!

Results of week 25 voting

Exception rule was changed again so exceptions like banning “wall-on-wall” are now in effect. Also I have simplified enemy manipulation rule (exceptions may be needed to ban some cases). Also I removed event manipulation rule because not sure if it really affects anything.

80% agreed to allow breaking NPC dialogue. Rules have been clarified.

60% agreed to ban breaking cutscenes. Rules have been clarified.

80% agreed to allow more specific rules in the future. No effect for now, in future bit more work.

If everything now feels good we can take a break from infinite and endless tweaking and tuning.

Issue1: Record resetting procedure

IIRC, the original stance for resetting records has been “Records which can’t be realistically beaten will be reseted”.

The logical problem with this is that it’s better to do poor records since they have a better chance to stay up after nerfs. Poor records also get relatively better time if they don’t get reseted (big nerf can turn a bad record to a good one). Also it’s really difficulty to say which records can be beaten.

Also some people have been annoyed that their good records get reseted and replaced by poor records. It has been suggested that invalid records would gain a significant time penalty instead of being reseted. This fits the original stance because when you add enough time the record can be beaten.

A) Keep the current stance, Records which can’t be realistically beaten will be reseted.

• Good records get reseted more likely than bad records.
• Reseted good records may get replaced by bad records.
• Records may get reseted unfairly
• People can relatively get better times than they would deserve

B) Always reset when a record is affected by a nerf

• Resets good and bad records equally
• Reseted good records may get replaced by bad records.

C) Add lots of penalty time instead of resetting

• Good records won’t get replaced by bad records.

I like option A. Even if poor records are set, they can be beaten with a little effort. Resetting after every change would likely burn out the record setters. I would like to see more details about option C.

I think currently we have pretty much done option B even though we should have done option A.

About option C:

Invalid records get a specific amount of penalty time (not sure whether decided by me or approvers). This time depends on the severity of changes. For example a small nerf could only add like 15 seconds while big change would add like 2 minutes. The idea is that the penalty time is unfair so invalid records should be quite easy to beat.

Valid records would use the record time + penalty time when showing the fastest run. Penalty time would show up as a red number.

All time records would only use the record time.

I like the idea of option A. But for the patch on tuesday i feel like it should be a full reset regardless of what we pick for the future. Its the largest balance and combat patch the game has seen since launch.

I dont want to see penalty times. That will just create more work and confusion for the future.

Implementation would be quite simple. When you want to invalidate a record you write a value to a textbox, select path and click a button. Then all records for that path get a penalty time so they stay in order.

We’re just talking the current meta records right? All time will remain as is?

btw, for the current records that have been posted are those going to be approved before the patch tomorrow?

Im sure the reset wont come into effect immediately on the site. I will at least look at them this week when i have time.

Here’s links to all the pending ones for ease of access:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/geek-SE-P1-Trio-4-11-min
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/want-HoTW-Path-1-3-40-Restricted
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/GC-CoE-P1-Trio-11-40
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/FOTM50-Water-Ruins-11m31s-UnRestricted
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/LOD-Aquatic-Ruins-Deep-3-32-Restricted

Edit:
One more posted:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/TA-UP-Duo-09-48-Restricted

I have been obscenely busy both with forum reports and out-of-game stuff and unable to do much reviewing these past several days. If there are still any pending by this weekend I will approve them then and set them up as if they were done prior to the patch. Thank you for that list, Enko.

As for resets, I’ve always felt that resets should happen when major balance changes happen, buff or nerf. The logic there is that if things are stronger after a patch a record could theoretically be beaten, but it doesn’t make sense when viewing the records to see things in a before and after state next to the major patch… We should absolutely reset come Tuesday, regardless of whether it was a buff, a nerf, or whatever, and it should be a complete reset. It is simply too large in scope to do anything but a full reset.

I’m for a mass reset when a meta-wide change is made. But if a path is radically changed, like if they fixed Arahp3 door or something and the old times could never realistically be beaten I would like the flexibility to reset just that path.

In regards to this patch specifically, we know that the movement skill thing is a fairly big nerf but I think it remains to be seen if old records cannot realistically be beaten. Why not let the old records stand for a bit and see if its actually impossible before we reset?

I’m for two scenarios that trigger a reset:
1.) Like Rising Dusk after Major Balance Patches, regardless if it was a buff, or a nerf.
2.) If the tactics used in the current record are no longer viable.

I don’t know if there ever was a reset, because a record was too good, but i think its sad if you do a really perfect run with perfect random and it’s basically an instant reset. Especially if the record wasn’t all time (aether could be such an example).
Another good thing about my second case would be, that it works against getting to crazy with the nearly abuses in a path: once Anet fixes them, its a reset.
And its also a much clearer rule then “can no longer realistically be beaten”. Because with new tactics, better times get possible.

NikeEU.7690:

I’m for a mass reset when a meta-wide change is made. But if a path is radically changed, like if they fixed Arahp3 door or something and the old times could never realistically be beaten I would like the flexibility to reset just that path.

In regards to this patch specifically, we know that the movement skill thing is a fairly big nerf but I think it remains to be seen if old records cannot realistically be beaten. Why not let the old records stand for a bit and see if its actually impossible before we reset?

I clarified option B. Hopefully it now indicates that only affected paths would get reseted.

I’m not sure if we could draw any conclusions whether current record are still beatable even if few records get beaten. It’s hard to estimate which records are hard to beat, especially after patch.

Wethospu.6437:

I clarified option B. Hopefully it now indicates that only affected paths would get reseted.

I’m not sure if we could draw any conclusions whether current record are still beatable even if few records get beaten. It’s hard to estimate which records are hard to beat, especially after patch.

I am okay with doing what Nike suggests and having no immediate reset and “seeing what things look like” for a week or two. After that I’m not exactly sure how we’d go about determining which paths should be reset and which shouldn’t be reset if that option gets voted in. Some might be obvious, but I’d really like to avoid having to go to a vote on the matter in the closer cases… That just seems like a ton of extra work for no value.

Thats my opinion. We dont need to reset right away. But i do think it should be a full reset for this patch. Having certain paths reset and others stay is just confusing. And creates extra work.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first

well its probably safe to say that traits will be “changing at an alarming rateTM” in the coming weeks. so probably best to hold out for a bit.

The fact that they didn’t nerf Ice Bow should let you all know that the “over powered builds” they are referencing have nothing to do with PvE balance. I wouldn’t expect direct damage pve based builds to be nerfed too badly, outside of bug fixes.

I expect Mesmer DPS to get hit marginally, I expect Engineer DPS to get hit substantially, and I expect Necro DPS to stay bad because they’re terrified of PvP Necro. That’s basically what I’m counting on in the coming weeks.

Enko.6123:

Here’s links to all the pending ones for ease of access:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/FOTM50-Water-Ruins-11m31s-UnRestricted

Just approved a couple. The quoted ones above are the remaining records that need to be approved.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I expect Mesmer DPS to get hit marginally, I expect Engineer DPS to get hit substantially, and I expect Necro DPS to stay bad because they’re terrified of PvP Necro. That’s basically what I’m counting on in the coming weeks.

Engi is pretty broken right now with the broken Grenadier trait. Aside from that I don’t think there’s really anything wrong, but yeah fixing that trait is going to be a noticeable loss from what is possible right now.

If people are setting records atm with Engineers, are we going to accept them or chalk it up to a bug that anet needs to fix before approving anything right now?

Meta build will be using glass cannon as soon as grenadier is fixed so if the engi is running that instead of grenadier I don’t see any reason to DQ the record.

Aye, if the Engi shows his PoV and shows no grenadier trait I’d think it should be fine.

Theres quite a few things that will most likely be fixed in the next few weeks. Id assume most people realise that any records set right now cant really be considered serious.