Guild Wars 2

This topic has multiple purposes. I will ask players to share tips and tricks and I’ll ask developers to take a look at Alpha’s earth attack at the same time. Let’s start from the problems I have with it.

Part 1: Why am I raging?
I just spent 3 hours in that dungeon only to have my teammates rage quit. 1.5 of those hours were spent trying again and again to battle the last boss. Why did I go there? I remember passing that path in 2 hours before the waypoint rushing was removed, it was a real big challenge and we barely made it that time, but this time I thought that I improved as a player and will be able to do it faster and better so I took the challenge. This is both a plea from me to others to help me improve and as well to ask – why is this path so unfair?

Part 2: what’s wrong with the path in my opinion
1. It’s path 2 + an extra boss put on it
Up until the fire crab (that’s where the boss before Alpha would be on path 2) it’s identical. However here we have 2 bosses instead of 1 like it is custom for path 1 and 2 (fire crab and the dude with a shield). You might say that the fire crab is optional, but there are no such equivalent on other paths making this one longer. Why is it so? Was CoE path 3 supposed to be like Arah path 4? If so, why isn’t there an additional path like in Arah to compensate for this one being longer and harder?
2. Alpha’s earth attack is unblockable and gives no warning
I’m fine with all of his other attacks. You can time dodges. This one? Not really. On top of that my guardian with 2700 toughness would lose 70% of her health if he would hit me even once. And he would spam it on all of us non stop.

Part 3: help me improve!
How do you avoid the Earth attack? Any good players running in constantly that I could contact on European server to run with and learn? As a guardian I was using Judge’s Intervention to get out of the crystals, revive signet to get my teammates up without getting into the AoE, that shout that gives you protection and heals, as my ultimate I selected the golem (I’m an asura). Were there better abilities to pick?

The Destroyer Crab Champion is skippable and the equivalent in the other 2 paths would be to fight the mobs instead of exploding the cage (path 1 optional) and fighting the husk and dog mobs (path 2 optional).

As for Alpha, which earth attack? He has two. The first one is the large circles he spawns on people that you can easily walk out of. The second one is a series of increasingly growing AoE circles that travel out of him in a direction of his choosing. This one is harder to dodge but does less damage. The only effective way I found of dodging it was to literally stand inside of Alpha so the AoE circles cannot hit you.

Diviner.7405:

The Destroyer Crab Champion is skippable and the equivalent in the other 2 paths would be to fight the mobs instead of exploding the cage (path 1 optional) and fighting the husk and dog mobs (path 2 optional).

As for Alpha, which earth attack? He has two. The first one is the large circles he spawns on people that you can easily walk out of. The second one is a series of increasingly growing AoE circles that travel out of him in a direction of his choosing. This one is harder to dodge but does less damage. The only effective way I found of dodging it was to literally stand inside of Alpha so the AoE circles cannot hit you.

Yes there’s veteran mobs before the crab as well. The crab is the only champion mob in all 3 paths.
I was talking about the second one. Do you run this path a lot? Are you on European or American server?

Mirta.5029:

Diviner.7405:

The Destroyer Crab Champion is skippable and the equivalent in the other 2 paths would be to fight the mobs instead of exploding the cage (path 1 optional) and fighting the husk and dog mobs (path 2 optional).

As for Alpha, which earth attack? He has two. The first one is the large circles he spawns on people that you can easily walk out of. The second one is a series of increasingly growing AoE circles that travel out of him in a direction of his choosing. This one is harder to dodge but does less damage. The only effective way I found of dodging it was to literally stand inside of Alpha so the AoE circles cannot hit you.

Yes there’s veteran mobs before the crab as well. The crab is the only champion mob in all 3 paths.
I was talking about the second one. Do you run this path a lot? Are you on European or American server?

Im on a US server so I would not be able to help you much.

I’ve had no trouble with the earth attack you speak of, it doesn’t do as much damage due to the almost instant activation time. If you dodge out of the other AOE and coordinate a bit with your group you should get it.

Levistis.8356:

I’ve had no trouble with the earth attack you speak of, it doesn’t do as much damage due to the almost instant activation time. If you dodge out of the other AOE and coordinate a bit with your group you should get it.

5000 damage an undodgeble AoE is not a lot? O_o
It hits you multiple times for high damage, how much toughness do you have? What class do you play?

For alpha, if you got a guard at melee recommend the hammer, tell them to run hold the line and stick to auto attack. Now earth spike does 33% less damage.

If you dont, predict the timing, grab some vigor and start dodging, or experts tip, stand inside him to be outside of the first circle of damage.

Minimise stuff to spawn; illusions golems pets all grab their own ice circle. Less moron AI, less circles.

Stack on him and it’s trivially easy… that earth atk begins a bit before his model so if you stand inside him…or to the side of him, he’ll never hit you….

If you don’t want to do it that way…then, I think he immediately uses that earth atk after he’s used his multi aoe atks…so if that’s the case, you have to dodge?

Hmm…1 path in 3 hours…3 paths can be finished <3 hours…

I just spent 3 hours in that dungeon only to have my teammates rage quit.

When you start with this, I can immediately see that this is not a problem with the dungeon, more a problem with the bad group you had. Besides the Champion Icebrood Wolf and Champion Destroyer Crab, the rest of the dungeon’s difficulty is fine. Both of the aforementioned Champions I normally skip because they are extremely difficult but the rewards are terribly bad.

2. Alpha’s earth attack is unblockable and gives no warning
I’m fine with all of his other attacks. You can time dodges. This one? Not really. On top of that my guardian with 2700 toughness would lose 70% of her health if he would hit me even once. And he would spam it on all of us non stop.

By the damage you’re taking, this sounds like his large AOE attack that targets every player and pet in range. This is mechanic-based attack and requires you to dodge in a timely manner. And it is blockable with Aegis, Shield of Wrath, etc. The main reason you think your Aegis is failing is because, when your group is stacked up or spaced incorrectly, you’ll be hit by multiple instances of the same attack, while Aegis only blocks one. If you’re stacked up, the only way to avoid the damage is to time your dodge appropriately. As a rule of thumb, when the circles appear, count to 2 and hit dodge; you will need to adjust and compensate for latency.

Stand inside his model, problem solved.

Ojimaru.8970:

I just spent 3 hours in that dungeon only to have my teammates rage quit.

When you start with this, I can immediately see that this is not a problem with the dungeon, more a problem with the bad group you had. Besides the Champion Icebrood Wolf and Champion Destroyer Crab, the rest of the dungeon’s difficulty is fine. Both of the aforementioned Champions I normally skip because they are extremely difficult but the rewards are terribly bad.

2. Alpha’s earth attack is unblockable and gives no warning
I’m fine with all of his other attacks. You can time dodges. This one? Not really. On top of that my guardian with 2700 toughness would lose 70% of her health if he would hit me even once. And he would spam it on all of us non stop.

By the damage you’re taking, this sounds like his large AOE attack that targets every player and pet in range. This is mechanic-based attack and requires you to dodge in a timely manner. And it is blockable with Aegis, Shield of Wrath, etc. The main reason you think your Aegis is failing is because, when your group is stacked up or spaced incorrectly, you’ll be hit by multiple instances of the same attack, while Aegis only blocks one. If you’re stacked up, the only way to avoid the damage is to time your dodge appropriately. As a rule of thumb, when the circles appear, count to 2 and hit dodge; you will need to adjust and compensate for latency.

He does have the same AoE attacks on other paths and I can run those in 30 to 40 minutes no problem. His regular attack is easy to dodge because it hits about 2.75 seconds after the rings appear. I’m talking about his Earth attack, the linear attack wave that he does with no warning.
Also how do you deal with repositioning of Alpha once you try to stand inside him? He never stands still.

Mirta.5029:

Ojimaru.8970:

I just spent 3 hours in that dungeon only to have my teammates rage quit.

When you start with this, I can immediately see that this is not a problem with the dungeon, more a problem with the bad group you had. Besides the Champion Icebrood Wolf and Champion Destroyer Crab, the rest of the dungeon’s difficulty is fine. Both of the aforementioned Champions I normally skip because they are extremely difficult but the rewards are terribly bad.

2. Alpha’s earth attack is unblockable and gives no warning
I’m fine with all of his other attacks. You can time dodges. This one? Not really. On top of that my guardian with 2700 toughness would lose 70% of her health if he would hit me even once. And he would spam it on all of us non stop.

By the damage you’re taking, this sounds like his large AOE attack that targets every player and pet in range. This is mechanic-based attack and requires you to dodge in a timely manner. And it is blockable with Aegis, Shield of Wrath, etc. The main reason you think your Aegis is failing is because, when your group is stacked up or spaced incorrectly, you’ll be hit by multiple instances of the same attack, while Aegis only blocks one. If you’re stacked up, the only way to avoid the damage is to time your dodge appropriately. As a rule of thumb, when the circles appear, count to 2 and hit dodge; you will need to adjust and compensate for latency.

He does have the same AoE attacks on other paths and I can run those in 30 to 40 minutes no problem. His regular attack is easy to dodge because it hits about 2.75 seconds after the rings appear. I’m talking about his Earth attack, the linear attack wave that he does with no warning.
Also how do you deal with repositioning of Alpha once you try to stand inside him? He never stands still.

He raises his hand and slams it down, pretty noticeable but it happens fast. Easy to dodge once you know the tell.

Also how do you deal with repositioning of Alpha once you try to stand inside him? He never stands still.

Of course he does. Just hug him from 5 different angles and he’ll pretty much not move an inch.

Or you could stop ranging him and melee instead. If the entire party melees him from the same angle you’ll eventually push him into a wall.

Attacking him from inside his model is much easier if you go into Options and turn off melee assist.

As strange as it is, jumping also seems to work. But you really can dodge the attacks. It’s easier when your whole team is on TS and you can yell “dodge !” so everyone does it at the right time.
If someone ever dies, the 4 players should save him. Thus why fighting in melee range is even better.

Iehova.9518:

Stand inside his model, problem solved.

“Exploit, problem solved.”

Nice to know that balance should be created around glitchy solutions.

Oglaf.1074:

“Exploit, problem solved.”

Nice to know that balance should be created around glitchy solutions.

This is not an exploit. The game engine allows standing inside another model. Your argument is invalid.

Iehova.9518:

Oglaf.1074:

“Exploit, problem solved.”

Nice to know that balance should be created around glitchy solutions.

This is not an exploit. The game engine allows standing inside another model. Your argument is invalid.

Just because the game engine allows something does not mean it isn’t an exploit. The game engine allows you to move under terrain. The game engine allows you to teleport through doors. Pretty much every single exploit in the game is “allowed by the game engine” because if it wasn’t, you couldn’t perform said exploit in the first place!

Iehova.9518:

Oglaf.1074:

“Exploit, problem solved.”

Nice to know that balance should be created around glitchy solutions.

This is not an exploit. The game engine allows standing inside another model. Your argument is invalid.

Also, Subject Alpha can still hit you if you do not dodge/avoid his attacks. Were we unable to be hit, yes, exploit. But we can still be damaged if we don’t avoid the attacks. Stacking just makes it easier for us. So no, not an exploit.

Oglaf.1074:

Just because the game engine allows something does not mean it isn’t an exploit. The game engine allows you to move under terrain. The game engine allows you to teleport through doors. Pretty much every single exploit in the game is “allowed by the game engine” because if it wasn’t, you couldn’t perform said exploit in the first place!

Irrelevant to Alpha, good day sir.

Nice strawman attempt there.

Nice hyperbole attempt there.

alpha is one of the best. pls understand that on alpha it is not so much about the skill as it is about understanding the boss mechanic. go read.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/A-terribly-long-guide-to-Subject-Alpha/first#post1450307

Alpha is a dance.

He goes 1, 2, 1, 2.

You go 1, 2, 1, 2.

I don’t remember exactly what abilities he has in Path 3, but I think it’s the Earth-Spikes, and then the Spike-Circle Ice thing.

Thus, he’ll do Earth Spike cone, be ready to dodge it. Then avoid his Spike-Circle, which doesn’t require any dodging at all.

Then dodge the Cone.

Then avoid his Spike.

Rinse and Repeat.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

alpha is one of the best. pls understand that on alpha it is not so much about the skill as it is about understanding the boss mechanic. go read.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/A-terribly-long-guide-to-Subject-Alpha/first#post1450307

Running Alpha path 1 and 2 for a while now. This is not my first encounter with alpha

Rika.7249:

Alpha is a dance.

He goes 1, 2, 1, 2.

You go 1, 2, 1, 2.

I don’t remember exactly what abilities he has in Path 3, but I think it’s the Earth-Spikes, and then the Spike-Circle Ice thing.

Thus, he’ll do Earth Spike cone, be ready to dodge it. Then avoid his Spike-Circle, which doesn’t require any dodging at all.

Then dodge the Cone.

Then avoid his Spike.

Rinse and Repeat.

How do you avoid the Earth Spike that seems to come out of nowhere in a completely random direction?

I did get lots of good advice here that I’m planing to try out
(stand around alpha from 5 sides, push alpha into the wall, watch his arm movements) and I’m going to post back whether those things were successful for us or not when I eventually get around to doing it. Was planning to do it yesterday, but we did 5 guildies on skype CoE path 1 and 2 runs and it was a big mistake. For one thing we were having too much fun to even pay attention at the basic attacks, causing lots of failure and then we would stop to chat for too long and time flew by, then people had to go sleep and we couldn’t anymore

Mirta.5029:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

alpha is one of the best. pls understand that on alpha it is not so much about the skill as it is about understanding the boss mechanic. go read.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/A-terribly-long-guide-to-Subject-Alpha/first#post1450307

Running Alpha path 1 and 2 for a while now. This is not my first encounter with alpha

Rika.7249:

Alpha is a dance.

He goes 1, 2, 1, 2.

You go 1, 2, 1, 2.

I don’t remember exactly what abilities he has in Path 3, but I think it’s the Earth-Spikes, and then the Spike-Circle Ice thing.

Thus, he’ll do Earth Spike cone, be ready to dodge it. Then avoid his Spike-Circle, which doesn’t require any dodging at all.

Then dodge the Cone.

Then avoid his Spike.

Rinse and Repeat.

How do you avoid the Earth Spike that seems to come out of nowhere in a completely random direction?

The Cone always comes from Alpha himself. He will STARE at the target direction that he wants his Cone to travel. You always know when he’s going to do it.

1, 2, 1, 2.

Alpha is really easy, just watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGwk-tla9OI

Best thing to do is to stack inside him. Can finish all 3 paths in 50-60minutes with the optimal group setup.