Guild Wars 2

Hi you all,
Fast question.
Do you think is worth to lose personal dps by running a phalanx warr in order ?o buff a pug (or bearbows).

no
go berserk

Ignore Svetli’s comment because you will be in berserker gear.

Phalanx Strength is great in pubs, depending on the type of pubs you get. It helps to be flexible because if you get good might stacking pubs with high dps, you may not see a big difference from Phalanx Strength. On the other hand, for just about any “this group looks awful” group, Phalanx Strength is a huge boon. As long as they are attacking at all, they will benefit from group-wide permanent 25 stacks of might.

25 stacks of might equal a DPS buff of 25% for a good build or about 15-20% for a bad build. So Phalanx will be good for most pugs. Of course if you have a mix of bearbow at 1200 range, clerics staff guardian and necro minion master, then no Phalanx won’t do enough to compensate your own DPS lost, but this are special case. In most pug Phalanx will do miracle. With normal pugs, Phalanx could create between 4 and 6k DPS by its own, almost a 6th pug player.

I’m running both 64040 and 44060 builds in pug. I use Phalanx strength if my pugs all fight in the melee range properly, yet don’t benefit a lot from ele might stacking (lack of ele, or lack of the awareness to blast ele’s fire field). On the other hand, if my pug is a mixed bag, 64040 has both decent damage and EA buff. Then there is the case when you know that you’ll have to solo…

Personally, when I’d use phalanx strength would depend on what dungeon I’m running. If I’m in Arah, there’s no way I’d do anything other than 65003 because there’s a good chance that I’ll have to solo things while everyone’s wiped. I know it sounds selfish, but I’ve come to not trust anyone unless they’re part of a guild I know or are a personal friend. Other dungeons where I don’t care as much? Probably run phalanx.

Svetli.4276:

no
go berserk

if you run phalanx you generally are berserker -.-
OP it’s only worth if your pug doesn’t have might stacking capability (basically no eles).

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Svetli.4276:

no
go berserk

if you run phalanx you generally are berserker -.-
OP it’s only worth if your pug doesn’t have might stacking capability (basically no eles).

Assuming you come across the extremely rare elementalist who can actually stack might :P
Even then, an elementalist’s might stacking method is largely dependent on the entire group to help out with field blasting making the odds of coming across such an organized group very slim.
Phalanx is, in truth, much better when PUG’ing in horribly disorganized groups as long as they’re conscious enough to stack to share boons.
If you’re unsure of what build to use for this purpose try this.

In fractals, yes.

In regular dungeons, no.

Ok ty guys, I ll give it a try once I get the runes.

By the way: 4/4/0/6/0 or 0/6/0/6/2?

Ryn.6459:

Ok ty guys, I ll give it a try once I get the runes.

By the way: 4/4/0/6/0 or 0/6/0/6/2?

I am not much of a fan of points in Strength in a PS build and personally prefer 0/6/0/6/2 or 0/5/0/6/3 to be honest.

6 in the Arms (over 4) allows taking both Rending Strikes (vuln stacking) and Deep Strike (more crit chance = faster might stacking), and the 5th point partially makes up for the loss of Slashing Power by replacing it with another 10% modifier.

Signet Mastery in a PUG may also be significant, as encounters can sometimes last longer than a minute.

Fast Hands can make your adrenaline useful by letting you eviscerate (and then further stack vuln and/or vigor/weakness) but not be stuck in that set for too long.

Ryn.6459:

Ok ty guys, I ll give it a try once I get the runes.

By the way: 4/4/0/6/0 or 0/6/0/6/2?

That’s a tough one. Usually ppl take 0/6/0/6/2 since its a pug carrier build, you gonna want signet mastery to get enough fury.

But if your group can already give you a good amount of fury, lets say you play with a friend with an Ele or something like that, then I think 4/4/0/6/0 could be better.

Again, its a pug build, so I think you’re safer with 0/6/0/6/2.

Thaddeus.4891:

With normal pugs, Phalanx could create between 4 and 6k DPS by its own, almost a 6th pug player.

Or 5 THV characters.

Thaddeus.4891:

25 stacks of might equal a DPS buff of 25% for a good build or about 15-20% for a bad build. So Phalanx will be good for most pugs. Of course if you have a mix of bearbow at 1200 range, clerics staff guardian and necro minion master, then no Phalanx won’t do enough to compensate your own DPS lost, but this are special case. In most pug Phalanx will do miracle. With normal pugs, Phalanx could create between 4 and 6k DPS by its own, almost a 6th pug player.

25 might + banners + EA will actually more than double a bad pug’s DPS if he’s not wearing anything with +power on it. The marginal impact of more might diminishes the more power you have, which is why PVT is so terrible. You do crap damage and buffs on you are almost negated because you’re reducing the marginal impact of might and you have no crit chance or ferocity so you’re negating the impact of fury as well. Your overall damage sucks so vuln’s % modifier is tiny, etc.

Ryn.6459:

Ok ty guys, I ll give it a try once I get the runes.

By the way: 4/4/0/6/0 or 0/6/0/6/2?

I second Dave’s preference for 0/5/0/6/3 or 0/6/0/6/2.

I usually run the Fast Hands variant with Axe/Mace or Sword – depending on the fight. Once I see stacks up to ~20, I swap to Axe for 8 Vuln stacks + Eviscerate, then back to GS for HB. Since you aren’t running Berserker’s Power, there is no reason to avoid Eviscerate.

If I run the 0/6/0/6/2 variant, Swap is just Sword/Horn for skips. (switch to Axe/Horn for fighting – you can blast a Fire Field with Horn 5 before camping on GS)

I know I’m late,,, but I’ve been running the 06062 on Cof1, SE1, TA up&fwd (the easy ones) and I’m utterly impressed. And I still don’t have strenght runes (running with scholars).

Just curious, any of the math guys run the numbers on these builds? What kind of Vuln/might stacks you can get with the 06062 and what is the DPS and what about 44060?

Always liked having numbers to back up what I see but I simply haven’t had the time to learn the math for this game yet.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

25 might + banners + EA will actually more than double a bad pug’s DPS if he’s not wearing anything with +power on it. The marginal impact of more might diminishes the more power you have, which is why PVT is so terrible. You do crap damage and buffs on you are almost negated because you’re reducing the marginal impact of might and you have no crit chance or ferocity so you’re negating the impact of fury as well. Your overall damage sucks so vuln’s % modifier is tiny, etc.

We were talking about Phalanx specifically, so i concentrate on the 25 stack of might only. Didn’t took everything into account because banner and EA are pretty standard on normal warrior anyway. So those are not reason to go phalanx warrior over another type of warrior. EA Warrior also bring EA and Banners.

Jerus.4350:

Just curious, any of the math guys run the numbers on these builds? What kind of Vuln/might stacks you can get with the 06062 and what is the DPS and what about 44060?

Always liked having numbers to back up what I see but I simply haven’t had the time to learn the math for this game yet.

Well I think that everybody run their own numbers. I remember about 18-12 months ago, that was a nightmare. Everybody had numbers all over the place and everybody were defending their numbers and talking kitten about the number of everybody else. But since then, tooltip are WAY better (even if they need more work), the community pretty much figure out all of the skill coefficient in the game and they are easy to find and ppl got more general knowledge about how damage work and is influence by trait.

So now, a kind of consensus got into place in the community. At least for the more popular profession. Especially, when you can do some in-game test to back up the numbers. The math for Guardian, Warrior and Elementalist were done by several ppl and all have about the same numbers. But there is still a lot of stuff that can change the final number.
1) The aftercast time. This is not on the tooltip. Dekeyz and Zelyhn did a amazing job to find all of those so you can find a complete list for the Elementalist. But I never find the same for other profession so they can be different depending on what number do you use and how you found those numbers.
2) Rotation can also be tricky. It easy to check the dps of an Auto-attack. Its not the same to check the dps of a rotation and the more complexe the rotation is, the more different there will be between the number of different person. In this case, the in-game testing become precious.
3) Variable. Most ppl use full buff to do their math. Why? Because otherwise it would be insane. 1 build will generate a huge numbers of different dps depending on what he use. Banners? EA? Sigil? Food? Potion? How many damage modifier do you trigger? Are you at 90%? How many might? Vulnerability? Fury? etc. So to keep things simple. Usually the numbers are fully buff, even if this will never be the case in-game even with the best team possible.

Well, we’re not looking at much difference in rotations or much of anything but trait setups right? I mean you get signet of rage’s channel 20% more often which I’m sure adds up but other than that it’s the same attack pattern isn’kitten Either way, looking at buildcraft looks like the effective power is all of like 2-3% less for the 06062 vs the 44060 meaning the other benefits of more vuln and more crit chance probably outweigh it yeah?

And on a side note, anyone look into the new food? Mainly that Roasted Cactus which stacks might on crit. My buddy was messing around with it yesterday and it was just silly how easily we kept 25 stacks.

I prefer 44060 on my own because of various reasons:

• I used cheap food, and like to add a bit of power for myself.
• I often run with both banner of discipline and FGJ in pugs. Surprisingly enough, pugs use FGJ frequently so fury isn’t an issue.
• I mostly camp greatsword until 20 stacks of might before switch to axe/mace for additional vuln. Dual Wielding gives me a bit boost for Eviscerate.
• Since I mostly use warrior as a lazy mode to pug AND because I’m a bad warrior, I enjoy a bit of utilities with Building Momentum. The last utility slot is usually Endure Pain/Berserker Stance/Shake It Off!/ Dolyak Signet or Precision Signet etc which depends on the situations.
• I pug with the general crowd so always have low expectation of their support. Damage wise, it’s slightly more sustainable than 06062 to me.

I am running 0/5/0/6/3 most of the time.

I tested both the main and phalanx build in pugs. I strongly prefer the phalanx because it gives the party in general much more dmg. I insist on stacking though and if they don’t, I send them watch the loading screen. TBH, people feel the difference with a phalanx in the group (if no one else is might-stacking, ofc) and they actively play with that power they get. Otoh, when I run 6/4/0/4/0 and I carry people, they clearly see they’re at fault and tend to grumble. So for my own sake, when I pug, it’s phalanx.

Regarding the builds, I don’t see why some people prefer using 0/5/0/6/3 over 0/6/0/6/2. With the 0/5/0/6/3, are people using sigils of Battle? I keep the 0/6/0/6/2 with sigils of Strength + the dungeon-specific sigil and I’m doing very fine to keep my 25 stacks. Can someone explain the preference for 0/5/0/6/3?

Jerus.4350:

Well, we’re not looking at much difference in rotations or much of anything but trait setups right?

Ya but you need to create a mathematical representation of this rotation. For exemple, if i want to calculate the DPS of the GS auto-attack. Its easy.

The chain take 2.4sec to complete and its have skill coefficient of 0.7+0.7+0.9. So its 2.9 of coefficient which will give you the dmg and you divide it by 2.4sec to give you DPS.

But its not that simple if you try to put a rotation of different skill into that. All skill have different cast and aftercast time, all have different cooldown. You can say, well with my GS i use skill 5, 3 and 2 then auto-attack until my skill get back. Ok, but skill will get back before skill 5 so it will be 5, 3, 2, 1… then 2. Own many auto-attack will you do? Will you finish the chain of AA or interrupt it? A rotation is not as simple as only 1 skill repeated over and over. Tiny difference can make a huge difference. And its even worst with the aftercast. Its is 0.4sec or 0.2sec or 0.5sec? That doesn’t seem much, but for big dmg skill it can make the difference of several thousand of DPS once fully buffed. And then we are not even talking about weapon swapping. Usually, just simple logic will be enough, but it can be easy to make a mistake that will change by 500 or 1000 dps the result.

One last question if you dont mind.
Im short on dragonite, so right now I only have one ascended GS. What sigils do you recommend me? So far Im using force+accuracy.
Thx in advance.

Fror.2163:

Regarding the builds, I don’t see why some people prefer using 0/5/0/6/3 over 0/6/0/6/2. With the 0/5/0/6/3, are people using sigils of Battle? I keep the 0/6/0/6/2 with sigils of Strength + the dungeon-specific sigil and I’m doing very fine to keep my 25 stacks. Can someone explain the preference for 0/5/0/6/3?

I use 05063 for fast hands with Axe/Mace… extra vuln with mace plus eviscerate and axe auto chain better than GS auto while HB is on cooldown.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jerus.4350:

Well, we’re not looking at much difference in rotations or much of anything but trait setups right?

Ya but you need to create a mathematical representation of this rotation. For exemple, if i want to calculate the DPS of the GS auto-attack. Its easy.

The chain take 2.4sec to complete and its have skill coefficient of 0.7+0.7+0.9. So its 2.9 of coefficient which will give you the dmg and you divide it by 2.4sec to give you DPS.

But its not that simple if you try to put a rotation of different skill into that. All skill have different cast and aftercast time, all have different cooldown. You can say, well with my GS i use skill 5, 3 and 2 then auto-attack until my skill get back. Ok, but skill will get back before skill 5 so it will be 5, 3, 2, 1… then 2. Own many auto-attack will you do? Will you finish the chain of AA or interrupt it? A rotation is not as simple as only 1 skill repeated over and over. Tiny difference can make a huge difference. And its even worst with the aftercast. Its is 0.4sec or 0.2sec or 0.5sec? That doesn’t seem much, but for big dmg skill it can make the difference of several thousand of DPS once fully buffed. And then we are not even talking about weapon swapping. Usually, just simple logic will be enough, but it can be easy to make a mistake that will change by 500 or 1000 dps the result.

Aye, I’ve done math like this for every game up until this one, I simply don’t have that kind of time anymore. I was hoping someone had those formulas figured out already, I know I use to have spreadsheets for every class in my old games, I figure someone has to be as crazy as I use to be but for this game Appreciate the information as always though. I always try to learn something new each day while I’m stuck at work with nothing better to do than read these forums

@ Iris, sounds pretty solid, basically if fury is covered no need for signet mastery so sticking to what should be the higher DPS is probably solid.

Fror.2163:

I tested both the main and phalanx build in pugs. I strongly prefer the phalanx because it gives the party in general much more dmg. I insist on stacking though and if they don’t, I send them watch the loading screen. TBH, people feel the difference with a phalanx in the group (if no one else is might-stacking, ofc) and they actively play with that power they get. Otoh, when I run 6/4/0/4/0 and I carry people, they clearly see they’re at fault and tend to grumble. So for my own sake, when I pug, it’s phalanx.

Regarding the builds, I don’t see why some people prefer using 0/5/0/6/3 over 0/6/0/6/2. With the 0/5/0/6/3, are people using sigils of Battle? I keep the 0/6/0/6/2 with sigils of Strength + the dungeon-specific sigil and I’m doing very fine to keep my 25 stacks. Can someone explain the preference for 0/5/0/6/3?

Personally, if I’m running phalanx in a pug, I want the ability to switch weapons on a moment’s notice if the excrement hits the wind propulsion device. A well gs+axe/mace rotation has saved many a pug that I’ve run with. So, to me, it’s more about utility than a small increase in personal dps.

I just like fast hands. I’ve gotten used to switching my weapons around (65003), and even though it’ not mathematically the highest deeps, it’s decent and keeps me alive.

Ryn.6459:

One last question if you dont mind.
Im short on dragonite, so right now I only have one ascended GS. What sigils do you recommend me? So far Im using force+accuracy.
Thx in advance.

Night + Force is pretty standard. It don’t work well for day time dungeon meaning CM, HotW and Arah. Usually, ppl don’t really care about CM and HotW, while they either don’t do Arah that often or have a special equipement for Arah with Force + Undead slaying.

Otherwise, Force + Accuracy is pretty much the best all around setup. That work well in all dungeon and fractals.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ryn.6459:

One last question if you dont mind.
Im short on dragonite, so right now I only have one ascended GS. What sigils do you recommend me? So far Im using force+accuracy.
Thx in advance.

Night + Force is pretty standard. It don’t work well for day time dungeon meaning CM, HotW and Arah. Usually, ppl don’t really care about CM and HotW, while they either don’t do Arah that often or have a special equipement for Arah with Force + Undead slaying.

Otherwise, Force + Accuracy is pretty much the best all around setup. That work well in all dungeon and fractals.

I would throw at least an honorable mention for the Frailty.

Any party that can’t quickly hit and maintain 25 vuln stacks will benefit from it. If you can maintain even 3-4 stacks with it it will be a major boost to party DPS.

I run Frailty+Strength sigils on my greatsword, Battle+Energy on axe/warhorn.

Its true that frailty is not that bad. Since we are talking about a pug carrying build, it make sense.

But your setup don’t work at all for a Phalanx Warrior. Strength is useless since you will already have a constant 25 stack of might and Battle and Energy only proc when you switch weapon, an action that you almost never do in the middle of a fight on a Phalanx build since you need to stay in GS, and again the Might from Sigil of Battle is useless in a phalanx build.

I believe you don’t have permanent group 25 might without strength after signet and the double might from FGJ end.

True, but its close. And keep in mind that you are in a group. Depending on the situation, even in a pug you can have some might going on by the rest of your team.

On a complete Phalanx warrior, sigil of strenght and battle are useless.

If you don’t have the runes? It can be good, but personally I still prefer damage sigil. They are always good.

Well, I don’t go phalanx unless I join something like 2 thieves, necro and a mesmer and people look competent.

I carry a force + battle greatsword for those cases. Otherwise I just don’t go for these traits.

Though I generally prefer the selfish 6 5 0 0 3. If all goes terrible and wipes occur I’d rather have my own dps values for backup and if it doesn’t in a pug environment it’s usually a very minor slowdown compared to EA builds or the like.

But I’m very lax with group requirements, perhaps I’d run more group oriented builds otherwise.

Thaddeus.4891:

Its true that frailty is not that bad. Since we are talking about a pug carrying build, it make sense.

But your setup don’t work at all for a Phalanx Warrior. Strength is useless since you will already have a constant 25 stack of might and Battle and Energy only proc when you switch weapon, an action that you almost never do in the middle of a fight on a Phalanx build since you need to stay in GS, and again the Might from Sigil of Battle is useless in a phalanx build.

That 25 might depends on an uninterrupted rotation. This is harder to achieve while doing something like fractals, and some things in general with PuGs. Strength sigil makes dodges and cancels affect the might output a bit less.

Additionally you have the PuG dungeon situations where the ele does know to drop FGS but the party will not stack might. The faster you get to 25 stacks (or even 15+/25+) the faster the fiery exploit sword will exploit.

Ideally swapping off of greatsword won’t be necessary, but sometimes it’s needed for either you or the team (maintain more cripple uptime, use horn for vigor/weakness/cripple removal). Battle sigil ensures there’s not a total loss of might during the period Forceful Greatsword can’t be used.

I just did COE story earlier tonight and I got a PS/EA warrior, a firestaff ele, and a frostspotter sword/cat ranger. There was a GS guardian too but I dunno what he was running.

It was still the best non-cherrypicked pug I’ve ever rolled. Just thought I’d share. Story mode pugs are apparently top tier.