Guild Wars 2

So I tested this out duo in Arah with a guildie after dub messaged me about how busted the might stacking was

0/30/0/30/10

I/V/X

VI/VIII/XIII

VI

against afk HP sponge boss (alphard) – perma 25 might
against bosses that required dodging (abomination, lupicus) – 18-22 easily maintained
against sped bosses that troll you (belka) – perma 25 until teleport
against brie i switched to 30/25 to burst down, but it’s mostly afk so probably perma 25 might

strength runes
no boon duration food
strength sigil

RIP eles

:)

Wait, the trait applies might to you as well?
Ninja edit – typing in mobile is hard.

Advent Leader.1083:

Wait, the trait applies might to you as wel?

Don’t think so, but between forceful greatsword, signet of rage, and for great justice, you can maintain super high might on a warrior all by yourself. Runes of strength and sigil of strength makes it even more crazy.

hendo.1940:

So I tested this out duo in Arah with a guildie after dub messaged me about how busted the might stacking was

0/30/0/30/10

I/V/X

VI/VIII/XIII

VI

against afk HP sponge boss (alphard) – perma 25 might
against bosses that required dodging (abomination, lupicus) – 18-22 easily maintained
against sped bosses that troll you (belka) – perma 25 until teleport
against brie i switched to 30/25 to burst down, but it’s mostly afk so probably perma 25 might

strength runes
no boon duration food
strength sigil

RIP eles

:)

Nice build! Very curious to try it out. What’s your rotation like? You’re not using fast-hands so I’m guessing you mostly stick to greatsword?

Oh. Wait, didn’t exactly read fine print: You’re bouncing might off each other?

maxinion.8396:

hendo.1940:

So I tested this out duo in Arah with a guildie after dub messaged me about how busted the might stacking was

0/30/0/30/10

I/V/X

VI/VIII/XIII

VI

against afk HP sponge boss (alphard) – perma 25 might
against bosses that required dodging (abomination, lupicus) – 18-22 easily maintained
against sped bosses that troll you (belka) – perma 25 until teleport
against brie i switched to 30/25 to burst down, but it’s mostly afk so probably perma 25 might

strength runes
no boon duration food
strength sigil

RIP eles

:)

Nice build! Very curious to try it out. What’s your rotation like? You’re not using fast-hands so I’m guessing you mostly stick to greatsword?

it’s exclusively greatsword. you do hundred blades + whirlwind off of cooldown, if theyre not in a wall you bladetrail for two might procs. then you just gs auto with your flashy twilight until hundred blades/ww goes off cooldown and repeat ad infinitum. dodge when necessary.

your fgj is basically 6 might stacks for everyone, sig of rage is 5 might stacks, if you hb/ww in to a wall you push everyone to 24 stacks of might – if you pre might stacked to 25 you’ll basically never drop from it because the phalanx stacks last 10.5s which is enough to cast hb/ww again which means that even though you’re overriding longer stacks with lower duration – the “lower duration” isn’t even a big deal since you’re constantly reapplying stacks.

not entirely serious about it being meta – but it does basically blank using an ele for might stacking when you can just 2-3-1-1-1-1-1-1 and maintain 25 yourself easily in a fight.

Kinda. I was trying it in AC path 3 and gave all my party 25 perma might, just autoattacking and doing some 100b at start. The best part of this is that the might regenerates so fast, others don’t even drop below 25 if they use forceful greatsword themselves.

What are odds of this getting nerfed into the ground?

Huh. Is it weird to think about this kind of application in WvW as well? Might bouncing might be a thing soon.

hendo.1940:

So I tested this out duo in Arah with a guildie after dub messaged me about how busted the might stacking was

0/30/0/30/10

I/V/X

VI/VIII/XIII

VI

against afk HP sponge boss (alphard) – perma 25 might
against bosses that required dodging (abomination, lupicus) – 18-22 easily maintained
against sped bosses that troll you (belka) – perma 25 until teleport
against brie i switched to 30/25 to burst down, but it’s mostly afk so probably perma 25 might

strength runes
no boon duration food
strength sigil

RIP eles

:)

Been curious on this. What is the opportunity cost though? Compared to the Axe/Mace w/ Empowered allies? Or whatever is the top (i’m hearing Axe/sword?/shrug).

Basically my guildy popped this on the second he got in after the update, and we were testing it, yeah it’s amazing, but the question is what is the opportunity costs? If we can easily toss a fire field and blast to start the fight capped and run that out pretty well without much loss in DPS is it worth the sacrifices you have to make to get Phalanx Strength?

Seems OP you exploiters ! Please nerf!

Joking ily guys. ^^

Costs are not that high, tbh. You lose about 23-30% personal damage, depending on circumstances, compared to 30/25/0/0/15 GS + A/M which is the best for personal dps assuming perma 25 might. It’s adding about 35% damage output to each other member of your party, though, for pretty much no risk.

What are odds of this getting nerfed into the ground?

well ANet want support to matter more – this build basically gives up dual wielding, slashing power/axe mastery and berserker’s power in return for going full support (berserker gear ofc) and maintaining an easy 25 might.

Been curious on this. What is the opportunity cost though? Compared to the Axe/Mace w/ Empowered allies? Or whatever is the top (i’m hearing Axe/sword?/shrug).

the EA build lacks berserker’s power but has axe mastery and dual wielding – i’ll assume that this build does lower damage even than that – but gives it up for balls to the wall might stacking.

Basically my guildy popped this on the second he got in after the update, and we were testing it, yeah it’s amazing, but the question is what is the opportunity costs? If we can easily toss a fire field and blast to start the fight capped and run that out pretty well without much loss in DPS is it worth the sacrifices you have to make to get Phalanx Strength?

it really depends on the fight. for longer fights where might can drop off (Lupicus, high level fractal fights like Mossman/archdiviner), being able to maintain stupid amounts i’m pretty sure is worth the DPS loss since you’re going to be giving the whole group a pretty hefty buff.

for regular dungeons, you can open up the fight (with no fire field) giving your party 11 stacks of might with FGJ and SoR then cap the might within 5 seconds. If you open the fight with fire field – you all basically sit at the cap the entire fight.

no longer needing an ele (unless using fgs rush) means you can stack more thieves, and FGJ and thrill of the crime (+ ranger warhorn if you have one) can give you the fury you need. your FGJ gives 10.5s of fury too since you have 30% boon duration from tactics.

I’m not one to calculate exact numbers, I’ll leave that to other people.

I believe a meta Elementalist with 30 in fire (6, whichever you’re used to), can give the party perma fury and 25 stacks of might (if fire fields coming from an outside source). Assuming those two are Elementalists, that leaves 3 other slots for pure damage people.

There’s probably a difference between the two. 2 Eles + 3 Damage vs Phalanx Warrior + Thieves/Rangers for Fury. Assuming you are leaving out Elementalists.

hendo.1940:

What are odds of this getting nerfed into the ground?

well ANet want support to matter more – this build basically gives up dual wielding, slashing power/axe mastery and berserker’s power in return for going full support (berserker gear ofc) and maintaining an easy 25 might.

Been curious on this. What is the opportunity cost though? Compared to the Axe/Mace w/ Empowered allies? Or whatever is the top (i’m hearing Axe/sword?/shrug).

the EA build lacks berserker’s power but has axe mastery and dual wielding – i’ll assume that this build does lower damage even than that – but gives it up for balls to the wall might stacking.

Basically my guildy popped this on the second he got in after the update, and we were testing it, yeah it’s amazing, but the question is what is the opportunity costs? If we can easily toss a fire field and blast to start the fight capped and run that out pretty well without much loss in DPS is it worth the sacrifices you have to make to get Phalanx Strength?

it really depends on the fight. for longer fights where might can drop off (Lupicus, high level fractal fights like Mossman/archdiviner), being able to maintain stupid amounts i’m pretty sure is worth the DPS loss since you’re going to be giving the whole group a pretty hefty buff.

for regular dungeons, you can open up the fight (with no fire field) giving your party 11 stacks of might with FGJ and SoR then cap the might within 5 seconds. If you open the fight with fire field – you all basically sit at the cap the entire fight.

no longer needing an ele (unless using fgs rush) means you can stack more thieves, and FGJ and thrill of the crime (+ ranger warhorn if you have one) can give you the fury you need. your FGJ gives 10.5s of fury too since you have 30% boon duration from tactics.

Yeah it’s surely quite powerful. Just hoping eventually someone does the math on it =), I always liked numbers, but I haven’t learned the math in this game for myself yet, too busy just trying to play it.

Might and Vuln are two tough ones for me, as they are both consistently between full 25 and like 15 for my group. Yes this build can keep us at 25 pretty much constantly, but how much of it is overlap and not really helping? That’s my hangup on this build, seems like a very solid option though, esp if you don’t have anything to stack might with, but I’m just not convinced that it’s helping my already pretty coordinated group. or moreover, I’m not convinced this is better than the EA build. Though we have had situations of 2 wars in group lately, and one with this and one with EA is pretty sweet.

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”

Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

Tree.3916:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”

Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

This. ^

I’ve been running similar build for some time now and it’s astonishing how easy might stacking in fractals became. At higher scales, typically, a guardian has a hammer which makes stacking mights during some fights quite an issue. With this trait you can delegate your eles to staff builds and yolo through everything by spamming your attacks. Support was never that brainless but I guess that’s what people want.

Tree.3916:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”

Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

To stack blinds, obviously.

this is i guess what you might call build diversity.

A casual group I run with for fun has Elementalists. but the concept of might stacking, lightning hammer and Firey great sword is unheard of. (casual group i dont expect much from them. )

but we have no shortage of warriors. and several of them run the new phalanx.

I like that I can run with them more often and have more might in the group. but again this is a casual and fun group.

personally I think the phalanx is more geared for WvW… imagine if you will a blob with 25 might?

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”
Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

moar deeps in non-fgs situations

I’ve been running similar build for some time now and it’s astonishing how easy might stacking in fractals became. At higher scales, typically, a guardian has a hammer which makes stacking mights during some fights quite an issue. With this trait you can delegate your eles to staff builds and yolo through everything by spamming your attacks. Support was never that brainless but I guess that’s what people want.

this is precisely the kind of fights I was thinking of. not casual stuff in dungeons that dies in 2 seconds, but the prolonged fractal fights where a phalanx warrior can just cap you out on might for basically the entire boss

how much damage does 25 stack of might add?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might

“With 25 stacks of might at level 80, the bonus is +875 Power and Condition Damage.”

I feel… strong!
There’s the power.
Ah, such might!

laokoko.7403:

how much damage does 25 stack of might add?

About 29% to a full ascended player who has 30 in first line and gets EA + Strength banner.

Dub.1273:

laokoko.7403:

how much damage does 25 stack of might add?

About 29% to a full ascended player who has 30 in first line and gets EA + Strength banner.

hendo.1940:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”
Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

moar deeps in non-fgs situations

Explain how a thief in a non-fgs situation is more dps than a staff ele.

Tree.3916:

hendo.1940:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”
Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

moar deeps in non-fgs situations

Explain how a thief in a non-fgs situation is more dps than a staff ele.

From 6:23 to 6:33 you deal 94,830 damage @ ~12 stacks of might

From 6:34 to 6:44 you deal 75,523 damage @ 24 stacks of might (no scholar bonus). Bump it up to 83,075 if you want to factor in scholar bonus.

???

I’d still prefer an ele for the conjured weapons. LH, Ice Bow, and FGS (choose the best for each fight) are all very, very strong in literally every dungeon and instance in the game.

That and it looks to me like a phalanx warrior sacrifices alot more personal dps for his build than a might-stacking ele. I would like to see a dps comparison between a standard 6/4/2/0/2 ele and a 0/6/0/6/2 warrior.

hendo.1940:

Tree.3916:

hendo.1940:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”
Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

moar deeps in non-fgs situations

Explain how a thief in a non-fgs situation is more dps than a staff ele.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfLHcyA9Cgc

From 6:23 to 6:33 you deal 94,830 damage @ ~12 stacks of might

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7pUXXRJJwA

From 6:34 to 6:44 you deal 75,523 damage @ 24 stacks of might (no scholar bonus). Bump it up to 83,075 if you want to factor in scholar bonus.

???

Thief = inquest potion, decent food + stacks, Scholar, full ascended

Ele = undead potion, cheap food, no scholar, no stacks, exotic weapons and armor

Not exactly a perfectly valid comparison. Or at least, not a meaningful one.

hendo.1940:

Tree.3916:

hendo.1940:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”
Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

moar deeps in non-fgs situations

Explain how a thief in a non-fgs situation is more dps than a staff ele.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfLHcyA9Cgc

From 6:23 to 6:33 you deal 94,830 damage @ ~12 stacks of might

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7pUXXRJJwA

From 6:34 to 6:44 you deal 75,523 damage @ 24 stacks of might (no scholar bonus). Bump it up to 83,075 if you want to factor in scholar bonus.

???

This “proof” has more holes in it then the average sponge. Clearly your trying to favor warriors. Maybe next time you should post videos of classes showing equal consumables, party-wide buffs, and proper builds.

Thief = inquest potion, decent food + stacks, Scholar, full ascended
Ele = undead potion, cheap food, no scholar, no stacks, exotic weapons and armor
Not exactly a perfectly valid comparison. Or at least, not a meaningful one.

Add another 10% to account for potion: 91,383 damage. The extra might the ele had was basically equivalent to the 25 bloodlust the thief had + more.

Thief will pull ahead at <50% when executioner kicks in and they can start heartseekering, and then ele will catch up at <33% when bolt to the heart kicks in. Post-patch, revealed training gives thief a pretty solid buff with the cloak and dagger rotation, while in the case of the COE golem the ele has the advantage of it having a large hitbox. If you give the thief an LH and they drop a smoke screen to repeatedly blast to proc the revealed training – that’s pretty great damage there too. I’d either say thief pulls ahead or they’re even.

. Clearly your trying to favor warriors. Maybe next time you should post videos of classes showing equal consumables, party-wide buffs, and proper builds.

um

well

i’m just trying to show the crazy good might stack potential of phalanx strength

if it crosses on to the turf of eles … well that’s just too bad

Bring back 5 warrior meta!

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Bring back 5 warrior meta!

4 warr 1 mes meta will be 4 warr 1 guard now, right? Or would it be better to turn on the man mode and eat every projectile? Hmm, this sentence is more weird than i tought …

Dalanor.5387:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Bring back 5 warrior meta!

4 warr 1 mes meta will be 4 warr 1 guard now, right? Or would it be better to turn on the man mode and eat every projectile? Hmm, this sentence is more weird than i tought …

It was the Dub meta, warrior supremacy 8^)

I’m glad other people are enjoying this. As soon as the patch dropped I immediately ran this setup and reveled in the delight of my might never dipping below 20, I rushed to reddit to share it..

And I was berated with a vengeance; no one appreciated it.

To see others, especially ‘legit’ PvE players willing to consider and embrace this build makes me happy.

I ran the numbers on this. It’s not that good.

The thing is that you CAN get pretty good might with it. The problem is that you get totally kitten on DPS for it. The base damage for a zerker, unbuffed 0/30/0/30/10 warrior (without the might obviously) is about 2800, even including the walled spin. By comparison, a 20/30/0/20/0 EAway with A/M is worth 3400. That means you’re giving up between 15-20% for the extra might. That’s a decent trade BUT if we compare it to an LH ele or bomb engie, who can output max DPS and still get tons of might, there’s really no reason why you need to sacrifice any DPS at all for might.

And yes, by comparison, the engie deals competitive DPS. I’m getting about 3800 on my spreadsheet for a 30/30/0/10/0 bomb engie and 4100 for grenades.

Guang, the big thing is that the warrior doesn’t need to rely on combo fields to stack the might. This makes it far more practical than an ele for a lot of situations in Fractals, where field management can get pretty messy (see: clown car).

I’m not going to claim that the build is good or bad, but it has theoretical merits over an ele/engi. You need to think about it in terms of actual application, and not just in terms of paper numbers.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Guang, the big thing is that the warrior doesn’t need to rely on combo fields to stack the might. This makes it far more practical than an ele for a lot of situations in Fractals, where field management can get pretty messy (see: clown car).

I’m not going to claim that the build is good or bad, but it has theoretical merits over an ele/engi. You need to think about it in terms of actual application, and not just in terms of paper numbers.

^^
Even as the guardian doing it, it’s frustrating that my auto attack leaves light fields with hammer, protection is great, light fields suck.

Comparing 20/30/0/20/0 and 10/30/0/30/0, the latter just misses 100 power and 10% critical damage. Thats about 4% less personal dps but an additional 22 might, considering someone drops a warbanner or blasts a field randomly. And yeah, I wonder where practical application has gone. People are doing paperwork with no end, using wiki values and not even knowing the corrent critchance/critdamage formula. Usually assuming impractical circumstances and totally forgetting about anything but dps. One can theorycraft as much as he want, that doesn’t change the actual ingame viability of a build.

And guang, engis might be good in your calculation, but truth is, they deal worse damage than necros. The solo damage output is comparable, but in a group the engi loses just way too much because of it’s heavy condition reliancy. Its a versatile and fun profession, but not any more worth considering to bring for a speedrun than a necro, a mesmer (no portal), a ranger or multiple guardians.

In the end, I’m curious what casual runs actually meet the perma 25 might/25 vuln assumption. A ps warrior surely isn’t a bright star in the sky when it compes to organized groups, but especially in pugs, or also in casual guild runs, it’s a great alternative that isn’t screwed if some other player tries messing you up.

hendo.1940:

Tree.3916:

hendo.1940:

“Frees you up to run more Thieves instead of eles.”
Why would I want to replace Eles? Why would I want a second Thief?

moar deeps in non-fgs situations

Explain how a thief in a non-fgs situation is more dps than a staff ele.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfLHcyA9Cgc

From 6:23 to 6:33 you deal 94,830 damage @ ~12 stacks of might

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7pUXXRJJwA

From 6:34 to 6:44 you deal 75,523 damage @ 24 stacks of might (no scholar bonus). Bump it up to 83,075 if you want to factor in scholar bonus.

???

A challenger has appeared!

0:30 – 0:41

Math models are okay as long as they describe dps potential accurately enough. Unfortunately, this game is slightly more tricky to model than other typical mmos. Seeing completely different conclusions about same comparisons doesn’t inspire great confidence. Having said that, I’d rather trust practical test than theoretical, especially when theoretical ones are often made in vacuum.

A NEW WARRIOR HAS ENTERED THE RING!

Find a warr build that can keep up 25 vuln. =]

It’s a boring, uninteresting trait. Eles still do might stacking better pre-pull and, outside fractals, Ele might should last any boss fight else you’re doing it wrong.

I can also see Phalanx getting hit with an ICD.

haviz.1340:

Math models are okay as long as they describe dps potential accurately enough. Unfortunately, this game is slightly more tricky to model than other typical mmos. Seeing completely different conclusions about same comparisons doesn’t inspire great confidence. Having said that, I’d rather trust practical test than theoretical, especially when theoretical ones are often made in vacuum.

I was testing mesmer dps few months ago. My spreadsheet data and observed data were less than 1% off. Good calculations WILL accurately reflect in game performance. Problem is I had to figure out my own skill coefficients and skill attack rates so the effort to get it accurate was quite high.

Ele might has about 15 seconds before it starts dropping again, I usually don’t kill bosses that fast. I must be doing it wrong.

frifox.5283:

I was testing mesmer dps few months ago. My spreadsheet data and observed data were less than 1% off. Good calculations WILL accurately reflect in game performance. Problem is I had to figure out my own skill coefficients and skill attack rates so the effort to get it accurate was quite high.

In vacuum. Most people here care about group performance.

I think Dub and Hendo have the right of it.

it is NOT an optimal setup for organized dungeon groups. However, as a starting point for a fledgling dungeon guild or someone looking to understand the mechanic of stacking might and what it entails. the half step for those that are learning. and what it could mean for them in their progression as a dungeon runner.

its certainly not a bad thing.

as i said before. in one of the guilds i run with. i am happy the warriors are taking this trait sometimes. as it brings the groups Damage up. and they can start seeing the light that is big white numbers.

of course i could be completely misunderstanding anything we are talking about.

carry on

Flissy.4093:

It’s a boring, uninteresting trait. Eles still do might stacking better pre-pull and, outside fractals, Ele might should last any boss fight else you’re doing it wrong.

I can also see Phalanx getting hit with an ICD.

ICD don’t make sense. It is a grandmaster trait that is only awesome when combo with forceful gs trait, putting an internal cd will totally destroy its practicability unless a change made to duration/might counts.

so I was using the build earlier in AC, SE and COF – we had an ele in the group. for AC it didn’t even matter because stuff died in like 3 seconds, but for the Tazza and Destroyer of Worlds fights where things are a bit more drawn out and pre-might stacking starts dropping off is where it actually started to shine – at Tazza we basically sat there capped out at 25 stacks and at the destroyer we were pretty much 23-25 the entire time. Again, stuff died in COF p1 too quick for it to be relevant.

so

as I was originally thinking – more of a FOTM build. haven’t been able to test in all dungeons so far, but the general rule seems to be that if a fight lasts long enough for the pre-might stack to drop off, its pretty decent. the longer the fight goes on for, the stronger it gets.

It’s a boring, uninteresting trait. Eles still do might stacking better pre-pull and, outside fractals, Ele might should last any boss fight else you’re doing it wrong.

drop fire field > lb3, wh 5, banner, banner, fgj, 25 MIGHT GET ON MY LEVEL

:)