This thead really makes me wonder by engineer gets sold short so hard, they can might blast without interference from light fields, stack loads of vuln, and now deal extremely competitive DPS (around thief tier). Much better than anything a Phalanx warrior can put out, pug or not.
I guess it’s just cause no one wants to press all those buttons, I almost never see engies in any PvE format, period, and the ones I see are running something stupid.
We just all missed the amazing new trait that converted guangmath into actual game facts, namely ‘increasing engineers direct damage by 75%’.
Sounds like someone’s still salty about getting blown up in the DWA vs. GS thread.
This thead really makes me wonder by engineer gets sold short so hard, they can might blast without interference from light fields, stack loads of vuln, and now deal extremely competitive DPS (around thief tier). Much better than anything a Phalanx warrior can put out, pug or not.
I guess it’s just cause no one wants to press all those buttons, I almost never see engies in any PvE format, period, and the ones I see are running something stupid.
We just all missed the amazing new trait that converted guangmath into actual game facts, namely ‘increasing engineers direct damage by 75%’.
Sounds like someone’s still salty about getting blown up in the DWA vs. GS thread.
In all seriousness, I don’t think I’ve ever not said Engie is super high DPS. The patch DOES in fact increase Engie DPS by a kittenton, since rifle burst + ascended weapon damage + double sigil + everyone else being nerfed adds up pretty significantly.
if blown up means being told that greatsword is actually the best option for dps
This thead really makes me wonder by engineer gets sold short so hard, they can might blast without interference from light fields, stack loads of vuln, and now deal extremely competitive DPS (around thief tier). Much better than anything a Phalanx warrior can put out, pug or not.
I guess it’s just cause no one wants to press all those buttons, I almost never see engies in any PvE format, period, and the ones I see are running something stupid.
We just all missed the amazing new trait that converted guangmath into actual game facts, namely ‘increasing engineers direct damage by 75%’.
Sounds like someone’s still salty about getting blown up in the DWA vs. GS thread.
In all seriousness, I don’t think I’ve ever not said Engie is super high DPS. The patch DOES in fact increase Engie DPS by a kittenton, since rifle burst + ascended weapon damage + double sigil + everyone else being nerfed adds up pretty significantly.
if blown up means being told that greatsword is actually the best option for dps
ok guang
Where’s that told post when we need it….
[ARES] And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others? Our blood has bought their lives.
This thead really makes me wonder by engineer gets sold short so hard, they can might blast without interference from light fields, stack loads of vuln, and now deal extremely competitive DPS (around thief tier). Much better than anything a Phalanx warrior can put out, pug or not.
I guess it’s just cause no one wants to press all those buttons, I almost never see engies in any PvE format, period, and the ones I see are running something stupid.
We just all missed the amazing new trait that converted guangmath into actual game facts, namely ‘increasing engineers direct damage by 75%’.
Sounds like someone’s still salty about getting blown up in the DWA vs. GS thread.
In all seriousness, I don’t think I’ve ever not said Engie is super high DPS. The patch DOES in fact increase Engie DPS by a kittenton, since rifle burst + ascended weapon damage + double sigil + everyone else being nerfed adds up pretty significantly.
Yeah, I remember your calculations about solo engis dealing same level of direct dps as warriors. Which is why their actual direct damage output is about half a warriors ingame. And yeah, I totally “lost” in that DWA thread, I’m so freakin’ kitten that gs is better dps than axe.
The only thing that bothers me is that you actually continue making claims that are so far off reality that one could think you’re playing a completely other game. Oh well, you actually are. Because paperwars2 has almost nothing to do with guild wars 2, as being proven several times.
But hey, Dub’s the one who figured out how to make Forceful Greatsword might stacking work with an Axe, clearly I’m just the dumb one here.
I didn’t know it was forceful greatsword that transfered might stacks you get to the party, good to know.
Edit: Nevermind, I’ll stop bothering. You’ve proven often enough there’s no point discussing with you. Guess I’ll just wait for your amazing engi + axe warrior speedruns.
I remember when people thought Guang was crazy for promoting the idea of a “DPS Guardian” over an “Anchor Guardian” in dungeons. Good times.
I have to admit, I still have a knight trinket set on my guardian. Since about one and a half year, although I never used it. That aside, I have no idea what guang had to do with dps guardians over anchor guardians, but I never understood why people used those, so what do I know.
That aside, I still don’t really see any use of axe aside of swapping for ocassionally while gs skills are on cooldown. GS simply offers more than axe in real dungeon play, even with about 10% less damage output, I woundn’t see any point in using axe. Unless one can get out of combat instantly after each fight, having no mobility skills on cooldown and instantly switching traits and weapons for higher mobility. In arah, gs + sw/wh would probably still be superior to pure axe if it dealt 20% less damage. Split over a party, it’s about 4% less party damage output, assuming others deal at most as much damage as you theoretically would. A 4% damage loss on all bosses probably slows fights down for 2 seconds in total, you save that time by many times just by doing one skip and starting a fight earlier.
That aside, I still don’t really see any use of axe aside of swapping for ocassionally while gs skills are on cooldown. GS simply offers more than axe in real dungeon play, even with about 10% less damage output, I woundn’t see any point in using axe. Unless one can get out of combat instantly after each fight, having no mobility skills on cooldown and instantly switching traits and weapons for higher mobility. In arah, gs + sw/wh would probably still be superior to pure axe if it dealt 20% less damage. Split over a party, it’s about 4% less party damage output, assuming others deal at most as much damage as you theoretically would. A 4% damage loss on all bosses probably slows fights down for 2 seconds in total, you save that time by many times just by doing one skip and starting a fight earlier.
BUT YOU"RE NOT DOING MAX DAMAGE!!!!
but really, cheers to you for being practical. When you realize that a good portion of most dungeons is avoiding combat it just makes sense to consider losing potential damage for options that speed you up between the fights.
had been about the kitten time! 80% of a fast run is the right dodge-timing and running the right paths ….
95% of all dungeon-records were made with full exo gear (e.g. oO’s cof p1 rec, one of the the eles was full exo with a legendary scepter…).
ppl bragging about getting +30 prec from infusions for 500g, but dont dodge with their 30 25 0 0 15 warrior build. (and miss 3% dmg like this…)
the point is, a nonperfect rotation, even one mistake costs you more dps than not having a full asc armor.
….. and even if you had the perfect rotation, the difference in time for a whole party with pink armor would be sub 3sec on any boss….
That aside, I still don’t really see any use of axe aside of swapping for ocassionally while gs skills are on cooldown. GS simply offers more than axe in real dungeon play, even with about 10% less damage output, I woundn’t see any point in using axe. Unless one can get out of combat instantly after each fight, having no mobility skills on cooldown and instantly switching traits and weapons for higher mobility. In arah, gs + sw/wh would probably still be superior to pure axe if it dealt 20% less damage. Split over a party, it’s about 4% less party damage output, assuming others deal at most as much damage as you theoretically would. A 4% damage loss on all bosses probably slows fights down for 2 seconds in total, you save that time by many times just by doing one skip and starting a fight earlier.
My other post got modded for calling someone dumb lol.
I’m pretty sure we already went over this but GS having one extra dodge isn’t really worth putting up with the long enforced root, especially not when other weapons offer plenty of ways to avoid damage just fine. You may be used to working around it, just like rangers are used to working around sword chain root, but that doesn’t make it less impractical relative to a weapon that doesn’t root you.
For that matter, no one plays ranger even though their sword chain is arguably Mich easier to deal with than hb root. I think you’re just biased towards warriors. Even if admittedly I am biased against them a bit due to how overrated they always are, I’d rather be biased in favor of 6 classes than just one.
I’m pretty sure we already went over this but GS having one extra dodge isn’t really worth putting up with the long enforced root, especially not when other weapons offer plenty of ways to avoid damage just fine.
Wait, are you trying to argue with me what is practical and actually useful in this game?
I’m pretty sure we already went over this but GS having one extra dodge isn’t really worth putting up with the long enforced root, especially not when other weapons offer plenty of ways to avoid damage just fine.
Wait, are you trying to argue with me what is practical and actually useful in this game?
Kara dodge allows you to interrupt sword chain without DPS loss. Not to mention the damage isn’t nearly as backloaded to begin with so you generally interrupt it more freely without having to worry about taking the huge DPS hit at all. It does suck for stacking and certain other fights where you want to be at a very specific distance but other than that I haven’t had any real problems with it.
Regardless it is literally just personal preference, maybe I think ranger is easier and you think warrior is easier. I think pure axe is more practical and you think GS whirl is more practical. At any rate I think you should probably try actually rolling an engie and see how strong it is for yourself before you start knocking it. Otherwise it just turns into the DPS guardian/ranger debate all over again and at this point I think we know who turned out to be right in the end.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video where Guanlai proves his claims, while I’ve seen plenty from dub etc
Yeah, that’s what the “anchor guardian” proponents said too, and that’s why today no one runs anything but 3 DPS warriors, 1 anchor guard, and 1 mesmer (purely for the Timewarp).
This thead really makes me wonder by engineer gets sold short so hard, they can might blast without interference from light fields, stack loads of vuln, and now deal extremely competitive DPS (around thief tier). Much better than anything a Phalanx warrior can put out, pug or not.
I guess it’s just cause no one wants to press all those buttons, I almost never see engies in any PvE format, period, and the ones I see are running something stupid.
We just all missed the amazing new trait that converted guangmath into actual game facts, namely ‘increasing engineers direct damage by 75%’.
Sounds like someone’s still salty about getting blown up in the DWA vs. GS thread.
In all seriousness, I don’t think I’ve ever not said Engie is super high DPS. The patch DOES in fact increase Engie DPS by a kittenton, since rifle burst + ascended weapon damage + double sigil + everyone else being nerfed adds up pretty significantly.
if blown up means being told that greatsword is actually the best option for dps
ok guang
Where’s that told post when we need it….
[ ] Not Told
[X] Told
[X] Really Told
[X] TOLDASAURUS REX
[X] Cash4Told.com
[X] No Country for Told Men
[X] Knights of the Told Republic
[X] ToldSpice
[x] The Elder Tolds IV: Oblivious
[x] Command & Conquer: Toldberian Sun
[x] GuiTold Hero: World Told
[X] Told King of Boletaria
[x] Countold Strike
[x] Unreal Toldament
[x] Stone-told Steve Austin
[X] Half Life 2: Episode Told
[X] Roller Coaster Toldcoon
[x] Assassin’s Creed: Tolderhood
[x] Battletolds
[x] S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shatold of Chernobyl
[X] Toldasauraus Rex 2: Electric Toldaloo
[x] Told of Duty 4: Modern Toldfare
[X] Pokemon Told and Silver
[x] The Legend of Eldorado : The Lost City of Told
[X] Rampage: Toldal Destruction
[x] Told Fortress Classic
[x] Toldman: Arkham Told
[X] The Good, The Bad, and The Told
[x] Super Mario SunTold
[x] Legend of Zelda: Toldacarnia of Time
[X] Toldstone Creamery
[x] Mario Golf: Toldstool Tour
[X] Super Told Boy
[X] Sir Barristan the Told
[X] Left 4 Told
[X] Battoldfield: Bad Company 2
[X] Toldman Sachs
[X] Conker’s Bad Fur Day: Live and Retolded
[X] Lead and Told: Gangs of the Wild West
[X] Portold 2
[X] Avatold: The Last Airbender
[X] Dragon kitten Toldkaichi Budokai
[X] Toldcraft II: Tolds of Toldberty
[X] Leo Toldstoy
[X] Metal Gear Toldid 3: Snake Eater
[X] 3D Dot Told Heroes
[X] J.R.R Toldkien’s Lord of the Told
[X] Told you that PS3 has no games
[X] LitTOLD Big Planet
[X] Rome: Toldal War
[X] Gran Toldrismo 5
[X] Told Calibur 4
[X] Told Fortress 2
[X] Castlevania: RonTold of Blood
[X] Guilty Gear XX Accent Told
[X] Cyndaquil, Chicorita, and Toldodile
[X] Was foretold
[X] Demon’s Told
[X] http://www.youtold.com1
[X] Tolden Sun: Dark Dawn
[X] Tic-Tac-Told
[X] Biotold 2
[X] Toldbound
[X] Icetold
[X] Told of the Rings
[X] Hisoutentoldu
Kara dodge allows you to interrupt sword chain without DPS loss. Not to mention the damage isn’t nearly as backloaded to begin with so you generally interrupt it more freely without having to worry about taking the huge DPS hit at all. It does suck for stacking and certain other fights where you want to be at a very specific distance but other than that I haven’t had any real problems with it.
Regardless it is literally just personal preference, maybe I think ranger is easier and you think warrior is easier. I think pure axe is more practical and you think GS whirl is more practical. At any rate I think you should probably try actually rolling an engie and see how strong it is for yourself before you start knocking it. Otherwise it just turns into the DPS guardian/ranger debate all over again and at this point I think we know who turned out to be right in the end.
Ignoring anything but the “interrupting 100b = big dps loss”, what if I told you that dodging outside of 100b actually results in a relative dps increase?
And once again, 100b damage is not backloaded at all. The longer you channel 100b, the higher your overall dps gets, yet 100b itself deals qual damage per second at any time. Aside of the last hit, though, as that not only has twice the casttime of the previous hits but also contains the (small) aftercast window.
Anyhow, we’ve seen enough posts of you to know that you love engis. But sadly, contrary to your conclusions, they have about no spot in actually efficient runs, as basically all aspects of them are worse than you think.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video where Guanlai proves his claims, while I’ve seen plenty from dub etc
Yeah, that’s what the “anchor guardian” proponents said too, and that’s why today no one runs anything but 3 DPS warriors, 1 anchor guard, and 1 mesmer (purely for the Timewarp).
I have no idea why this is brought up repeatedly, the only people I know ever running an anchor guardian were the DnT team in Strifes videos, in a time where one barely had a part of today’s encounter knowledge.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video where Guanlai proves his claims, while I’ve seen plenty from dub etc
Yeah, that’s what the “anchor guardian” proponents said too, and that’s why today no one runs anything but 3 DPS warriors, 1 anchor guard, and 1 mesmer (purely for the Timewarp).
I have no idea why this is brought up repeatedly, the only people I know ever running an anchor guardian were the DnT team in Strifes videos, in a time where one barely had a part of today’s encounter knowledge.
Strife and Guang used to argue a lot on Guild Wars 2 Guru, and “anchoring” was a big topic of discussion. People would listen to Strife because he posted videos and had a reputation, and everyone would make fun of Guang and trash talk because he couldn’t be bothered to / was unable to post a video. Strife was wrong, something that I figured out as well after I started playing Warrior and noticed things aggro to me over the Guardian. Guang also finally convinced me to seriously try Ranger in the 3 Warrior, 1 Guardian, 1 Mesmer meta, and I saw that Ranger could actually be useful. Guang has always been a fan of calculating and spreadsheets / whatever, and I don’t really think that’s a bad way of going about things. But, there are things that I do have to disagree with like Mesmer being the top DPS while it maintains 3 Swordsmans (which is never going to be practical, and I don’t know if it’s an idea he still supports). I don’t think Guang has a consistent group to make videos with, I’m not sure that his solo-play ability is quite up to what some of you may be (I’ve played with him before, he’s not bad, I just don’t think he spends as much time as you). I think the problem comes in, or at least it used to, when Guang would calculate something and then tell us about it, and refuse to show his math or post any sort of other evidence, but he would still expect people to believe him. I don’t think that approach will cause points he makes to come across as anything other than ridiculous, even if they happen to be valid. Posting a video is usually enough to convince someone (look at Nemesis, for example), and most people don’t really seem to care about math. I wouldn’t disregard what Guang says simply because he’s saying it, but I’d test it for awhile in different situations and see if you notice a difference or if clear times are consistently slower or faster. That’s also asking a lot, because you are basically testing his ideas for him and will likely be rewarded with “I told you so,” but maybe it’s worth doing just to know. Anyways, back into the shadows for me.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video where Guanlai proves his claims, while I’ve seen plenty from dub etc
Yeah, that’s what the “anchor guardian” proponents said too, and that’s why today no one runs anything but 3 DPS warriors, 1 anchor guard, and 1 mesmer (purely for the Timewarp).
I have no idea why this is brought up repeatedly, the only people I know ever running an anchor guardian were the DnT team in Strifes videos, in a time where one barely had a part of today’s encounter knowledge.
Strife and Guang used to argue a lot on Guild Wars 2 Guru, and “anchoring” was a big topic of discussion. People would listen to Strife because he posted videos and had a reputation, and everyone would make fun of Guang and trash talk because he couldn’t be bothered to / was unable to post a video. Strife was wrong, something that I figured out as well after I started playing Warrior and noticed things aggro to me over the Guardian. Guang also finally convinced me to seriously try Ranger in the 3 Warrior, 1 Guardian, 1 Mesmer meta, and I saw that Ranger could actually be useful. Guang has always been a fan of calculating and spreadsheets / whatever, and I don’t really think that’s a bad way of going about things. But, there are things that I do have to disagree with like Mesmer being the top DPS while it maintains 3 Swordsmans (which is never going to be practical, and I don’t know if it’s an idea he still supports). I don’t think Guang has a consistent group to make videos with, I’m not sure that his solo-play ability is quite up to what some of you may be (I’ve played with him before, he’s not bad, I just don’t think he spends as much time as you). I think the problem comes in, or at least it used to, when Guang would calculate something and then tell us about it, and refuse to show his math or post any sort of other evidence, but he would still expect people to believe him. I don’t think that approach will cause points he makes to come across as anything other than ridiculous, even if they happen to be valid. Posting a video is usually enough to convince someone (look at Nemesis, for example), and most people don’t really seem to care about math. I wouldn’t disregard what Guang says simply because he’s saying it, but I’d test it for awhile in different situations and see if you notice a difference or if clear times are consistently slower or faster. That’s also asking a lot, because you are basically testing his ideas for him and will likely be rewarded with “I told you so,” but maybe it’s worth doing just to know. Anyways, back into the shadows for me.
Lol I used to break down the math all the time but you guys ignored it, so I stopped. I can upload the spreadsheet if I can ever figure out a good host for it I was never really quite motivated to just do the entire thing from start to finish, so I dunno how helpful it’ll be without knowing which parts are broken/incomplete and which aren’t.
Regardless Dub seems to have a vendetta against me for some reason even though I’ve literally never heard of him apart from him being “that guy who did the suspect GS math a few days ago”. I guess that’s to be expected when I spend like half my time at work trolling Reddit warriors.
He can run whatever he wants though I guess, but I don’t see how he expects to get any might to share via Phalanx Strength without using Forceful Greatsword. He’s been dodging that one for a while.
He can run whatever he wants though I guess, but I don’t see how he expects to get any might to share via Phalanx Strength without using Forceful Greatsword. He’s been dodging that one for a while.
Put down a warbanner and that alone is 12-16 stacks. Add FGJ and you’re at 15-22.
It’s not as strong might stacking as an elementalist (which I never said) but its still a pretty stong might stack boost that gets Forceful GS warriors to stay at about 25 perma might.
As for guang, I do not disagree with him simply because he says something. I don’t disagree that rangers have their use in speedkills of bosses. I don’t disagree with pure axe being a tiny amount stronger than gs rotation on spreadsheet.
But I disagree with him that any of these things are practical and will show the same results he gets on spreadsheet in real runs. The mesmer thing is just one of them, probably being the most obvious. I don’t have a problem that he theorycrafts and such, what I have a problem with is that he comes to a forum, makes an impractical point and stays on it being practical.
The fact that I never saw him playing surely contributes to that, but I have not heard good things yet. As for me playing more, that surely used to be true. I don’t really think one needs to play to play a lot to become good at the game, though. Luckily I know some prime examples to back up that point. Noone would disagree with me that wethospu doesn’t exactly play much and I can’t recall him ever doing so.
That aside, for the engi thing he repeatedly claims, I’m getting tired of it. His numbers are so far off reality that I highly doubt he ever tested that ingame. But I shouldn’t complain, claims like warriors having the worst survivability or mesmers dealing the most dps or sword rangers being more practical than greatsword warriors or… you get the point, surely make up for the effort of reading through his posts.
Umm… well, I’ve tried the build, simply because I have an extra set of runes of strength, sigils of strength and battle. It is pretty ridiculous to stack 25 might and keep it up during an entire fight in Fractals (Mossman, Asura, Grawl) or in a quick dungeon path like SE p1 or p3. Even in p3 where we AFK range the clown car, I only had to drop down Fire field with my long bow, using warhorn, FGJ, war banner, disc banner, and 22-25 stacks of might easily… I had great fun playing phalanx war in a casual run. I’m sold.
“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”
And a lot worse dps than a warrior using PS plus providing banners and EA.
If he’s running LH he’ll probably still do more with a 6/X/X/2/6 build than a warrior with FGS (Forceful, not Fiery) with Phalanx. Whether the banners make the difference depends on the pug I guess.
Well, you don’t really need Forceful Greatsword to stack up might on allies. And even though I didn’t do math about that, I don’t think a 6/0/0/2/6 ele would deal more damage than a 10/30/0/30/0 warrior for example.
