Guild Wars 2

dominik.9721:

Emanuel.9781:

Post video of you soloing Justin Wong then come back m8.

Since I do arah with guildmates It never was needed to solo him.
But I no someone who played a lot with NoTrigger and he is the slowest Gw2-Player I know , he clicks every single skill and is able to solo Lupicus with 4 different classes,allthough he f:: up in every other gamemodes….so please…

Btw. If I want to impress people, I won’t do it with Videos of Gw2-PvE content.
But funny to see that 2 seconds after declaring my own opinion the first one arrived with the typical freaky answer "lulz post a lupicus solo video to pruf ya skill "
That confirms everything what I said, ty

Well aren’t you just the best player in the Tyria. Much Condescend. Such wow. Very amuse.

There’s no need to wield that e-kitty here.

dominik.9721:

Hardest Bosses are Sîzer and Tàge, you can practice and train a year and you will still have more problems to solo them than anything else.
But probably you guys don’t even know them.

It’s dangerous to go alone.

Here, take these:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well aren’t you just the best player in the Tyria.

Probably Iam. I solod Dub in [Angz]-Server 3 times ,allthough he played Dhuumfire-Necro, what was truely Op before the patch.
On the other hand, I suck in fractals , my maths and in Tpvp as Guard.

Like any game that isn’t versus a player.

Thanks for your input.

edit: what the hell I just refreshed don’t you people have anything better to do?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The problem isn’t the boss blitz. The problem is, the rest of the game doesn’t prepare players for the boss blitz, neither by the game’s mechanics nor by the require cooperation.

Seems like it prepared most of us here just fine.

RemiRome.8495:

They are lazy and not interested. There’s no desire to learn.

dlonie.6547:

dominik.9721:

Hardest Bosses are Sîzer and Tàge, you can practice and train a year and you will still have more problems to solo them than anything else.
But probably you guys don’t even know them.

It’s dangerous to go alone.

Here, take these:

Don’t forget this.

Emanuel.9781:

dlonie.6547:

dominik.9721:

Hardest Bosses are Sîzer and Tàge, you can practice and train a year and you will still have more problems to solo them than anything else.
But probably you guys don’t even know them.

It’s dangerous to go alone.

Here, take these:

Don’t forget this.

Hahaha. I think Wethospu is the official Lupi hipster. I remember him saying how he soloed Lupi for the first time before something happened (this was so long ago). But Wethospu “I soloed Lupi before it was cool.”

And

“I beat Simin before she was nerfed!”

All these hipsters and I love them.

To be honest I don’t really like Arah, the CC-fest mobs are so annoying. Soloing Belka is a nightmare: I dc every 2 tries, and when I don’t dc, that “freeze and speed up” thingy happens and I don’t even see the knockback + ball of doom animation.
Surprisingly, I almost never get connection problems when in a group… It’s weird.

dominik.9721:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well aren’t you just the best player in the Tyria.

Probably Iam. I solod Dub in [Angz]-Server 3 times ,allthough he played Dhuumfire-Necro, what was truely Op before the patch.
On the other hand, I suck in fractals , my maths and in Tpvp as Guard.

giggles

The cajones on this one!

I will admit I’m a bit impressed by it. Reminds me of Oberyn.

Dub.1273:

I did Lupicus solo with literally 3 seconds delay.
Warriors OP.

Problem isn’t the delay, it’s the connection stability.
The Internet guardian is a staff playhowyouwanter. He never uses stability.

Best boss in the game → risen mob pack in arah.

Well, we could take it to the next level. All bosses are bad designed, simply because their AI is too simple. All bosses are just acting, not reacting. They’re all punching bags, some of them are onehitting puniching bags (Lupicus, Liadri). But not a single boss is reacting. Like using blocks when you’re using a hardhitting attack. Or using poison when you try to heal. Or walking out of AoEs. Or using AOEs when the party is stacking. Nothing like that. That’s what GW2 misses. Reaction.

dominik.9721:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well aren’t you just the best player in the Tyria.

Probably Iam. I solod Dub in [Angz]-Server 3 times ,allthough he played Dhuumfire-Necro, what was truely Op before the patch.
On the other hand, I suck in fractals , my maths and in Tpvp as Guard.

?
I just don’t see how that makes any sense.
First of, I play pvp like once per month, second mentioning beating someone overall isn’t accurate. One could go S/P thief against a necro and wipe the floor with him, kinda no practise required. One could go Diamond Skin Ele and laugh about condition necros even more. One could go PU mesmer and troll pretty much everything. One could go dps guardian and make thieves scream loudly. Just as one could go necro and laugh about condition specs of other professions.
This is point a.
Point b is, mentioning pvp duels against a pve player (although it’s just the same against a pvp player, I’ve had matches with helseth and sizer quite regulary at time, not ending with clear dominance of one over the other) in a pve topic.
Combine both, point a and point b and you’ve got a pretty good indicator for a totally meaningless argument.

Is my english to weird or do you not understand the cohesion?
But don’t worry it was a compliment.

dominik.9721:

Is my english to weird or do you not understand the cohesion?
But don’t worry it was a compliment.

A compliment to yourself or…..

I’m so kitty confused. But dub I guess if he’s the first best player in Tyria and he judges that based on beating you then that makes you the second best? That is cool right

^^ You should make a “Caption this” thread with that screen, Lilith.

Hardest Bosses are Sîzer and Tàge, you can practice and train a year and you will still have more problems to solo them than anything else.
But probably you guys don’t even know them.

not really. what you do is you get an internet connection that doesn’t suck ( a lot of us have awful connections), spend a while learning the meta, take a build which hard counters theirs and just throw them in the trash can. dungeons actually train your reflexes quite well if you do the not-faceroll instances, and if my connection was better and i took the time to learn the tells for each class in the game and the builds i’d be able to play it at a pretty high level – I remember doing some hotjoin with hambow and there was a guardian bunkering mid and he knew his ****, he blinded my hard hitting skills or aegis’d them, he knew when to CC and was generally just a solid player. if a lot of us here actually put in the same effort we do in to dungeons in to pvp and got not-terrible connections, most likely you’d be seeing what are the top dungeon guilds appearing in tournaments.

Problem is, that isn’t true at all. The decrease in kill speed for the bosses has to do with a regression to the mean: the more players there are in a group, the closer monster death comes to average kill time. If a player is on the low end of the spectrum, whether by gear or skill, then they see only an increase in kill time from zergs. Let alone a decrease in effort to kill things.

opens map chat
hey guys we only had a small group but we were able to kill boom boom really fast
hey guys maybe we should spread out in small groups since the bosses seem to have less hp if you do that

To be honest I don’t really like Arah, the CC-fest mobs are so annoying. Soloing Belka is a nightmare: I dc every 2 tries, and when I don’t dc, that “freeze and speed up” thingy happens and I don’t even see the knockback + ball of doom animation.
Surprisingly, I almost never get connection problems when in a group… It’s weird.

as much as I used to rage at belka, once you figure it out it honestly isn’t that hard

keep your back to walls or anything where you won’t get pushed in to a barrel
on reflect classes just chain them – as a mesmer just use untraited wardens and afk
if you want to make it easier, go out to the bone wall when low on health, clear the burning, get ooc then run back in – you’ll reset but she won’t if you get back to her quick enough.

regarding the thing about mobs – this makes me laugh because people always say mobs should have more diverse skills, support each other etc. but the moment they do, people don’t like it, lel

Well, we could take it to the next level. All bosses are bad designed, simply because their AI is too simple. All bosses are just acting, not reacting. They’re all punching bags, some of them are onehitting puniching bags (Lupicus, Liadri). But not a single boss is reacting. Like using blocks when you’re using a hardhitting attack. Or using poison when you try to heal. Or walking out of AoEs. Or using AOEs when the party is stacking. Nothing like that. That’s what GW2 misses. Reaction.

make every single boss cleave, and bump up their damage a few notches, done. guess where they do this? fotm. guess what pugs do? range. guess what we do? full melee mossman/ashym/mai trin @ fotm 49/50. bosses already have ranged and melee skills too, take the first boss of se p3, if you are at range he will throw you in the trash can, if you melee he will apply a ton of bleeds.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

A compliment to yourself or…..

I’m so kitty confused. But dub I guess if he’s the first best player in Tyria and he judges that based on beating you then that makes you the second best? That is cool right

I never said, Iam good or something else. It was you. And no, beating Dub in PvP is not an indicator for beeing good,allthough he played for a mainly PvEler quite well ( At least his build)
And your pics aren’t helping matters your misinterpretation

Wot.
Is.
Going on in here.

dominik.9721:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

A compliment to yourself or…..

I’m so kitty confused. But dub I guess if he’s the first best player in Tyria and he judges that based on beating you then that makes you the second best? That is cool right

I never said, Iam good or something else. It was you. And no, beating Dub in PvP is not an indicator for beeing good,allthough he played for a mainly PvEler quite well ( At least his build)
And your pics aren’t helping matters your misinterpretation

You did.

dominik.9721:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well aren’t you just the best player in the Tyria.

Probably Iam. I solod Dub in [Angz]-Server 3 times ,allthough he played Dhuumfire-Necro, what was truely Op before the patch.
On the other hand, I suck in fractals , my maths and in Tpvp as Guard.

And bro I’ll screen how I want!

Nice, now your are allowed to search for wikipedia -sarcasm, screen a facepalmpic to yourself and stop to tick off.
Srsly even the LoL-PvP-community is more enjoiable

dominik.9721:

Nice, now your are allowed to search for wikipedia -sarcasm and stop to tick off.
Srsly even the LoL-PvP-community is more enjoiable

I’m the best community there is. Duh.

Good riddance i guess.

get it

@Lindy: I wish I could tell.

@Lilith: I can confirm this.

@Emanuel: I can recall a ban for mentioning a french songtitle, due to english being the only allowed language in this forum.

RemiRome.8495:

Seems like it prepared most of us here just fine.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

We don’t have that problem here, since the forums are full of a bunch of theorycrafters and perfectionists who go above and beyond in the game. But unless players are experimenting on golems, or talking with other theorcrafters, they won’t know about all these hidden limits.

maha.7902:

opens map chat
hey guys we only had a small group but we were able to kill boom boom really fast
hey guys maybe we should spread out in small groups since the bosses seem to have less hp if you do that

*Noob sees people yelling to split up.
*Noob tries to kill champion with a few other noobs.
*Noob dies quickly and fails.
*Noob concludes guy in map chat is wrong.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Another thing that is a problem is the new language restraints, that arbitrarily limit player communication geographically. I once read a post that said the boss blitz is easy… if you have a coordinated team of commanders in multiple geographical locations so you could bypass the hidden interface problem that prevents players from talking to each other. Sure, it is easy, but it is utter bullkitten to have to fight the game interface just to do basic communication. I’m sure that language filter is meant to do “something”, but the detriment caused to the casual gamer means it is badly designed.

Just fyi, scaling makes barely any difference in boss blitz. It’s the players.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

*Noob sees people yelling to split up.
*Noob tries to kill champion with a few other noobs.
*Noob dies quickly and fails.
*Noob concludes guy in map chat is wrong.

*Noob fails to realize that he is a noob and should probably ask a few more questions before coming to his own incorrect conclusion.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

RemiRome.8495:

Seems like it prepared most of us here just fine.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

We don’t have that problem here, since the forums are full of a bunch of theorycrafters and perfectionists who go above and beyond in the game. But unless players are experimenting on golems, or talking with other theorcrafters, they won’t know about all these hidden limits.

My second selfquote was highly relevant. Pointing out it’s not an issue with the game doing too little to teach but players doing too little to learn.

Could it do more? Probably. Would it help? Probably not.

Wethospu.6437:

Just fyi, scaling makes barely any difference in boss blitz. It’s the players.

wait…

HUH???

Ropechef.6192:

Wethospu.6437:

Just fyi, scaling makes barely any difference in boss blitz. It’s the players.

wait…

HUH???

hp / person growth is constant (more or less). it’s just that with more people, you get more PTV leechers, so DPS goes down and time-to-die goes up.

maxinion.8396:

Ropechef.6192:

Wethospu.6437:

Just fyi, scaling makes barely any difference in boss blitz. It’s the players.

wait…

HUH???

hp / person growth is constant (more or less). it’s just that with more people, you get more PTV leechers, so DPS goes down and time-to-die goes up.

(( learns ))

I feel silly for not thinking of like that, but yes that makes sense.

I would link you the two reddit topics about “unreleased game data”. But, you know… I’m being watched.

Oh, obviously not related but here is link to my reddit user: http://www.reddit.com/user/Wethospu_/submitted/

Tree.3916:

Plenty examples of this

“Hard” bosses with good design: Lupicus, Liadri, Hunter/Crusher, Wiggins, Boom Boom Baines, Archdiviner, Vivenna, Korga, Dredge Power Suit
“Hard” bosses with bad designs: Champion Orrian Warrior, Mossman

Easy bosses with good design: CoF1 Effigy, Bloomhunger, SEp3 Destroyer, CoE Golem
Easy bosses with bad design: Champion Ice Wolf CoE, Ginva the Butcher, TA end trees, magecrusher, evolved destroyer

I lol’d irl at the champion orrian warrior… he’s such a god kitten kitten xD

To be honest though I have a LOT of fun soloing him, reminds me of Mai Trin where you can only block the certain attack. I find Mage crusher to be really fun as well, but I understand why telegraphed attacks seems to be better design.

Other than Mage crusher, I agree with everything in your post. The only thing I’d like to change about Mage crusher is give him the ability to spawn minions or something… I’d totally expect that from him.

@OP
I agree with you about Belka.

However I don’t necessarily always think that having attacks with little tell are always a bad thing. Alphard, for example, was perfectly fine insta-gibbing before imo… I just don’t think a full party wipe was a good idea. The person who gets pulled getting instantly killed seems justified to me, as it’s not even remotely close to difficult to get out of the AoE afterwards to avoid the bomb. You don’t even need swiftness to get out of it! Therefore, there’s very little danger at all for this encounter unless you really aren’t paying attention at all.

Mage crusher is another example of a boss that I’m fine with little tell for autoattacks. He doesn’t even consistently use the attack, so there’s time to recover in between them.

The thing is with Mage crusher vs. Belka, you can come up with a way to prevent damage taken from Mage crusher’s attacks whereas Belka you cannot. Every attack of hers causes burning and she attacks at a way higher rate than Mage crusher does…

If an attack is untelegraphed. How are you supposed to avoid it? Thats not good design. If its a 1hit KO then thats just unfair and forces stacking passive defence. If its weak then you just ignore it and its not good design either.

The gameplay centers more on how you deal with the sudden situation you find yourself in, than how you’re suppose to manage avoidance of that situation. To reiterate; I only support this when it involves complex situations, I don’t support it when it involves simple situations. (Like a 1 hit KO is much too boring, as realistically your only choice is to get back up).

Yes, but it is a fundamental element.

Most good action games have good enemy AI scripting with a slight mix of RNG.
Basically sort of a fighting game since the element of zoning is important.

Tells are a huge fundamental element since when a player gets hit or dies he should know it is his fault. Not saying telegraphs have to be obvious like kohler but there has to be a tell, even quick jabs have it.

Even fighting games have things that are more about changing the situation. Like the 1 frame Shields in SSB. You’re not really supposed to do something to stop the shield from going up, you’re just supposed to figure out how to respond once it is.

Were talking about attacks though. Attacks should have tells. The kind of things you are talking about is something like the arch diviners reflect buff or the grawl shamans shield. Those dont really need very clear tells as the effects are reactive. But things which do damage to you directly should have tells and shouldnt be cast in stealth (Hi mossman) or diguised by particle effect clutter. Theres plenty of bosses in this game with terrible tells, but they are often so weak that you can just ignore them. Thats boring, they should be more powerful and the tell should be possible to react to.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Yes, but it is a fundamental element.

Most good action games have good enemy AI scripting with a slight mix of RNG.
Basically sort of a fighting game since the element of zoning is important.

Tells are a huge fundamental element since when a player gets hit or dies he should know it is his fault. Not saying telegraphs have to be obvious like kohler but there has to be a tell, even quick jabs have it.

Even fighting games have things that are more about changing the situation. Like the 1 frame Shields in SSB. You’re not really supposed to do something to stop the shield from going up, you’re just supposed to figure out how to respond once it is.

Yes, but it is a block, even real life blocking is quick unless it’s from a recovery (just executed an attack). Blocking is a defensive mechanic that shifts from neutral and it’s fine to have little tells for blocking since the travel time or execution time from neutral is intuitively quick and we all naturally know this.

Side Note: SSB blocking actually has more than a 1 frame execution time (about 4 frames for full block) and it is enough when approaching to sometimes change up your plan to just grab him instead.

Many games actually force you to counter or bait an attack before going in and in many games blocking is limited (by stamina or just by grabbing) to prevent turtles, so there is a bit of mind-game and anticipation involved.

Attacking is different, the travel time is longer and should be longer than a block if coming from a neutral position. Instant attacks especially in gw2 are just obvious oversights and lazy work (see coe champ wolf: leap attacks which have no tells).

Basically it’s all about being intuitive. Maybe in spank and tank rpgs it’s fine not to put in tells, but when you touch action games being intuitive is of critical importance.

Example of a good action game that makes use of proper tells/animations, AI, and movesets regarding situations: Monster Hunter. The whole game is about interesting encounters.

spoj, it is possible to react to mossman’s attacks from stealth. Did you see Sesshi’s video of lvl 50 mossman solo? I tried and I honestly cannot do it. The best I could get him to was one time 60% hp before wiping. It’s insanely hard.

Three things you can do during his stealth while moving (if you don’t keep moving you will get ganked):
1) strafe left and right
2) blindly evade or try to predict when he will throw his dagger because it usually is consistent. It depends on his distance from you, I think.
3) use a block/invuln

I think mossman is OK, I just hate the kitten wolves.

One thing that really bugs me is the reflect change. Maybe a bit of a rant, but since they added reflect modifiers on the other bosses, making reflects deal small damage to them, could they just reward reflects by adding boss debuffs instead of just outright making them unblockable/unreflectable? It’s really counterintuitive to deviate a lot from the mechanics set on players.

Attacks reflected to bosses could turn into condition applications, for one. Or have the boss get CC’ed through defiant if projectiles are turned back. Or if they’re destroyed/absorbed, you could just make it apply buffs to players.

Purple Miku.7032:

spoj, it is possible to react to mossman’s attacks from stealth. Did you see Sesshi’s video of lvl 50 mossman solo? I tried and I honestly cannot do it. The best I could get him to was one time 60% hp before wiping. It’s insanely hard.

Three things you can do during his stealth while moving (if you don’t keep moving you will get ganked):
1) strafe left and right
2) blindly evade or try to predict when he will throw his dagger because it usually is consistent. It depends on his distance from you, I think.
3) use a block/invuln

I think mossman is OK, I just hate the kitten wolves.

Yeah but thats what im saying is bad design. The fact that he can hit people while stealthed on occasion. Ive always put it down to a bug and yeah you can deal with it. But it doesnt make it good design. Theres no way to react to that. Yeah you can spam evades, strafe etkittenil he comes out of stealth but that just feels silly to me and its not guaranteed to work. I like mossman, hes a good challenging boss but the particle effects and his attacking while stealthed kind of ruins what could otherwise be a very well designed boss.

I sort of just want some more elaborate encounters. Mostly everything is a ‘tank n spank’ without much emphasis on the tank part. I like fights which have several mechanics in built, or forces players to play differently to usual. Not all the time, just occasionally.

An example of something like this would be if you took belka and added something where almost every spot in the area is covered by a barrel, and they periodically ignite all of them in a sequence which -could- force groups to have 1 person dedicated to killing the next spot to move into.

The idea with this is it could force ranged elements into an encounter, and people can choose to take damage to better position themselves into melee periodically, but would require healing through that.

That’s an example and not something I’m advocating should be changed about belka at all, I just think additional mechanics to bosses can make them more engaging, which is what I like about raiding mmos. The mechanics can be things that are challenging to solo, but that should be the point of soloing. Challenging but possible.

Fighting games achieve this sort of a shifting situation in more aggressive ways by ‘putting the fight on your terms/the enemy’s terms’. That’s pretty abstract stuff though, and not too useful for us because an AI can’t really replicate mindgames.

FPSs probably have more relatable examples.
It’s pretty normal for a sniper bullet to come from out of nowhere and chunk down over half your health. It’s not that these things don’t have animations, but, the first person camera limits your battlefield awareness to the point you can’t keep all the action on screen at the same time (much less watch it for telegraphs). So you end getting forced into situations you have to respond to alot.

Side Note: SSB blocking actually has more than a 1 frame execution time (about 4 frames for full block) and it is enough when approaching to sometimes change up your plan to just grab him instead.

I tend to think the ~~13 frame rule is a pretty good quick and dirty measuring stick for human reaction time. But, I recognize and respect not everybody agrees with that. So, rather than go into sheild/powersheild/framecount stuff and ending up agreeing to disagree; I’d like to focus on the second part because I think it illustrates where we might be having a communication breakdown.

There’s two things we’re talking about;
1: I see you’re about to do X -> I do Y to stop/mitigate it.
2: X happens immediately -> I have to decide to respond by doing either Z or Q

Both of these could be classified as ‘the player reacting to something’. But the first case is about keeping the enemy from achieving their intended effect, and the second case is about responding to the effect. Choosing to Shield Grab after seeing someone has Shielded is the second case, and it’s what I’m advocating.

I like the SE boss (forget the name…) that more or less turns one player into a timed explosive/knockback, forcing them to run out of the group or knock the party into lava.

That’s one of the more interesting/creative approaches to counter the usual stack’n’smack fight design.

The new spider queen also encourages players to use range. Without a speedclear group and good ele, parties have to fight in the open. Since she now sprays the poison in melee range, it’s unfeasible to stay melee 100%.

Wethospu.6437:

I would link you the two reddit topics about “unreleased game data”. But, you know… I’m being watched.

Oh, obviously not related but here is link to my reddit user: http://www.reddit.com/user/Wethospu_/submitted/

It sucks that they deleted your post shortly after it was created. It even lured in a dev and made him respond a few questions.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Wethospu.6437:

I would link you the two reddit topics about “unreleased game data”. But, you know… I’m being watched.

Oh, obviously not related but here is link to my reddit user: http://www.reddit.com/user/Wethospu_/submitted/

It sucks that they deleted your post shortly after it was created. It even lured in a dev and made him respond a few questions.

What? There was a dev in here?? O.o

Screens or it didn’t happen.

dlonie.6547:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Wethospu.6437:

I would link you the two reddit topics about “unreleased game data”. But, you know… I’m being watched.

Oh, obviously not related but here is link to my reddit user: http://www.reddit.com/user/Wethospu_/submitted/

It sucks that they deleted your post shortly after it was created. It even lured in a dev and made him respond a few questions.

What? There was a dev in here?? O.o

Screens or it didn’t happen.

It was in the FotFW section.

Edit: Ooooops.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Both of these could be classified as ‘the player reacting to something’. But the first case is about keeping the enemy from achieving their intended effect, and the second case is about responding to the effect. Choosing to Shield Grab after seeing someone has Shielded is the second case, and it’s what I’m advocating.

No miscommunication here I was saying the similar thing; as a defensive action it;s completely fine.

Vox Hollow.2736:

FPSs probably have more relatable examples.
It’s pretty normal for a sniper bullet to come from out of nowhere and chunk down over half your health. It’s not that these things don’t have animations, but, the first person camera limits your battlefield awareness

This idea is less about the tells of the action, more like positioning and ambush, which is strategy. It’s completely normal for this, and even in tPvP sometimes you don;t see what hit you like a donkey punch. An action game example would be dark souls – enemy has proper tells and animations, but holy balls they’re positioned to ambush you everywhere the first playthrough (which is completely fine) so sometimes being extra paranoid to what’s coming to you can be a fun experience.

Vox Hollow.2736:

1: I see you’re about to do X -> I do Y to stop/mitigate it.
2: X happens immediately -> I have to decide to respond by doing either Z or Q

So basically I see #1 (being tells animation etc) to be more fundamental for offensive actions and maybe some defensive ones (like sf4’s guard-break/crush – both def and offense) and #2 to be more of a defensive/fallback action (few frames block/quick backstep). Anet ignores the importance of these subtle things and keeps doing so, and now the problem just stacks one after another also affects boss encounters on how they could have been interesting.