Guild Wars 2

-Would you join a guild exclusively for Legit dungeon runs?
-All bosses would be fought as intended.
-Light skipping would be fine, aka playing smart around patrols, or unless ENTIRE group want to treat something as a Gauntlet event.
-Good group cohesion, of skill, but not meta groups.
-Please this is not a discussion of legit play forum trolls.
-Time for Positive play dungeoners to come together, or abandon all hope.

-simple yes or short comments.

No.

This guy made a guild. Join up!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Players-Against-Stacking-Skipping-Stuff/first

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

Initiatives like this are great, it allows people who dislike skipping and stacking to play with likeminded individuals. It would be nice if they could record some of their runs so we can get an impression of what they imagine dungeons to be, too.

Barbarka.9362:

-Would you join a guild exclusively for Legit dungeon runs?
-All bosses would be fought as intended.

And how exactly should be the bosses fought? You think there is some only “proper” way and anything else is cheating or what do you mean?
Every dungeon newbie (let me guess, mostly rangers) start immediately whining about stacking being bad on forums. Well stacking is perfectly legit. Live with it.

It depends on the format of the guild. I have already one, that I’m representing and I wouldn’t change that, but I’m 100% for doing legit dungeon runs without stacking in the corner and burning enemies with fiery greatswords (that I consider exploiting).

So if you want to create a guild that will work as an additional friend list, that we can whisper players and ask them if they want to do some dungeons, then I’m in.

@ all the people saying it takes hours, it is 5min max more than ZERKERS!! MAxmius runs. If that sometimes much faster. Cause floors mops be super dps.. Leetzors!

@ Fext.3614. -Please this is not a discussion of legit play forum trolls.

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

44 Minute CoF P1

Barbarka.9362:

@ Fext.3614. -Please this is not a discussion of legit play forum trolls.

Barbarka.9362:

@ all the people saying it takes hours, it is 5min max more than ZERKERS!! MAxmius runs. If that sometimes much faster. Cause floors mops be super dps.. Leetzors!

Aren’t you kind of contradicting yourself?

Just join the guild that was already suggested to you earlier instead of attempting to insult.

Barbarka.9362:

@ all the people saying it takes hours, it is 5min max more than ZERKERS!! MAxmius runs. If that sometimes much faster. Cause floors mops be super dps.. Leetzors!

I feel like you are trolling me. Can’t tell if serious…..

TurtleDragon.3108:

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

44 Minute CoF P1

That, sir, is epic. The party chat had me dying.

TurtleDragon.3108:

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

44 Minute CoF P1

kittening Rezardi, man.

Also, threads like this just reinforce my attitude of “ping gear on entry” and “dps spec only”. Unless you want to take 40 minutes on CoF, you need to run high damage gear. If you’re trying to run kitten like clerics, you don’t understand the game mechanics. If you’re trying to fight every single enemy in the dungeon without skipping, well… you’re honestly wasting your time. In terms of bosses? There’s no right or wrong way, but there’s “effective” and “ineffective” ways. For example, Melee stacking lupi with a feedback at phase 2 is effective, standing around trying to range him is ineffective and often draws out the encounter, leading to wipes.

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

Are you high?? I could go in there with a naked team of lvl 75’s and clear everything and path 1 wouldn’t take an hour….. Oh maybe you didn’t realize some people know how to actually play rather than #zomgskiptrashstackdpsbossburnburnburn!

Druss.6917:

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

Are you high?? I could go in there with a naked team of lvl 75’s and clear everything and path 1 wouldn’t take an hour….. Oh maybe you didn’t realize some people know how to actually play rather than #zomgskiptrashstackdpsbossburnburnburn!

Actually, I’d like to see you survive the Slave Driver with a bunch of naked lvl 75’s.

they range it and res those who inevitably die, just like how your average pug handles things.

after all, that’s how you’re meant to play the game.

No. If you run dungeons often you wanna do it fast. Also, killing them by stacking is legit. It even has been done often in GW1.

Well guildwars 1 was more corner stacking and even then you where not on top of each other cause of avatar collision, I preferred that method where healers where needed but now its just kinda dps race everything, gets a tad old.

Barbarka.9362:

@ all the people saying it takes hours, it is 5min max more than ZERKERS!! MAxmius runs. If that sometimes much faster. Cause floors mops be super dps.. Leetzors!

More like 5 mins absolute minimum, and that’s for dungeons like cof p1 with very few enemies. For arah, if you’re killing everything and running non-optimal, yes you’re looking at hours.

Druss.6917:

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

Are you high?? I could go in there with a naked team of lvl 75’s and clear everything and path 1 wouldn’t take an hour….. Oh maybe you didn’t realize some people know how to actually play rather than #zomgskiptrashstackdpsbossburnburnburn!

Lol.

Druss.6917:

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

Are you high?? I could go in there with a naked team of lvl 75’s and clear everything and path 1 wouldn’t take an hour….. Oh maybe you didn’t realize some people know how to actually play rather than #zomgskiptrashstackdpsbossburnburnburn!

What are you even saying here? That people who run zerk and skip/stack don’t know how to play?

Please show us a vid of you running CoF P1 naked with level 75’s in a reasonable amount of time and, yes, when I said one hour it was a slight exaggeration.

ARE WE DOIN IT RIGHT?

^^ No, you are breaking the immersion by stacking. Real mages can’t be in melee range of any monsters, they stay at range and use powerful spells. These mages using a greatsword, it’s unheard of, it is blasphemy!

To the OP: No thanks, plus there are already guilds that do this. No need to make another thread about it.

cranked.3812:

Druss.6917:

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

Are you high?? I could go in there with a naked team of lvl 75’s and clear everything and path 1 wouldn’t take an hour….. Oh maybe you didn’t realize some people know how to actually play rather than #zomgskiptrashstackdpsbossburnburnburn!

What are you even saying here? That people who run zerk and skip/stack don’t know how to play?

Please show us a vid of you running CoF P1 naked with level 75’s in a reasonable amount of time and, yes, when I said one hour it was a slight exaggeration.

Not all people who zerk and skip are skill-less. But you’ll find a whole lot more that are than not. And I too was exaggerating a bit about running naked, but challenge accepted. Soon as I find people dumb…err brave enough to do it I will post a vid of naked 75’s running CoF…might be a while though because I only have 1 toon left to level, the rest are 80’s and he’s only 50-ish.

Yes, although at the moment I am in 5 guilds, but will leave one guild if another one pops up that is actually active. Send me an in-game mail if such guild exists.

Barbarka.9362:

-All bosses would be fought as intended.

Please enlighten us on how all bosses are intended to be fought.

Start with AC spider queen and work your way up to the bloodstone, in ascending order of course.

Ethics.4519:

Barbarka.9362:

-All bosses would be fought as intended.

Please enlighten us on how all bosses are intended to be fought.

Start with AC spider queen and work your way up to the bloodstone, in ascending order of course.

Don’t forget story mode!

cranked.3812:

Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.

This is an AC Tzark’s path dungeon video I made not so long after launch, it took at least 40 minutes to finish the dungeon and I would never run it like this ever again. remember this is from a time when AC used to take 2.5 hours to run it so the 40 minute run was actually pretty good at that time

This video kinda makes it clear why people skip why it is intended gameplay and why skipping kohler is fine, he is an optional boss people you do not need to kill him to finish the dungeon.

Barbarka.9362:

-Would you join a guild exclusively for Legit dungeon runs?
-All bosses would be fought as intended.

If I wanna skip that’s my choice as intended

Barbarka.9362:

-Good group cohesion, of skill, but not meta groups.

meta groups have meta cohesion, support and skill, why bother going subpar

Time vs reward in dungeons is too imbalanced to consider a ‘legit’ run (which itself is subjective unless blatant exploitation happens, looking at the unofficial jumping puzzle of Arah). Though both sides need to stop discrediting the methods of the others on some belief that they are superior for x stated reasons.

MatthewCam.4391:

Time vs reward in dungeons is too imbalanced to consider a ‘legit’ run (which itself is subjective unless blatant exploitation happens, looking at the unofficial jumping puzzle of Arah). Though both sides need to stop discrediting the methods of the others on some belief that they are superior for x stated reasons.

People for stacking and skipping don’t discredit those who are against it. They simply don’t care if you want to run the path fully and kill everything. It’s the people who are against it that come here and tell us all how we are exploiters. If you want to spend 4 hours per path in a dungeon that you have done 200 times, feel free to do so. Just don’t tell us all we should as well.

And to clarify, stacking and skipping is far superior. It’s a product of the games design and it will never go away.

cranked.3812:

People for stacking and skipping don’t discredit those who are against it.

Yes they do. People fling kitten at each other from both sides; neither party is innocent in the slightest.

Black Box.9312:

cranked.3812:

People for stacking and skipping don’t discredit those who are against it.

Yes they do. People fling kitten at each other from both sides; neither party is innocent in the slightest.

Not really, this is because when non-stackers enter a party of stackers, they get kicked. Non-stacking/skipping parties are so rare that it is unlikely that a stacker will end up in one, and once he’s a minority, he’ll simply leave.

However, if by discrediting you mean telling people in the forums how inefficient their methods are, then you’re kinda right, but that only occurs as a result of the endless amount of threads moaning about stacking/skipping.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

cranked.3812:

People for stacking and skipping don’t discredit those who are against it.

Yes they do. People fling kitten at each other from both sides; neither party is innocent in the slightest.

Not really, this is because when non-stackers enter a party of stackers, they get kicked. Non-stacking/skipping parties are so rare that it is unlikely that a stacker will end up in one, and once he’s a minority, he’ll simply leave.

However, if by discrediting you mean telling people in the forums how inefficient their methods are, then you’re kinda right, but that only occurs as a result of the endless amount of threads moaning about stacking/skipping.

No, they develop a massive superiority complex because the majority of them can’t stand the fact that there’s another side to the coin that has just as much right to their own opinion and result to slandering and trashing each other. It’s quite like a pair of political parties, really. Both always insist that the other is wrong and that they know exactly what is best for everyone else.

Yes, I too remember the times when I would join a play how you want party in the lfg and then proceed to make their runs more efficient by playing meta. Man I was an awful individual, forcing my meta ways on them. I bet they were after nice slow runs where they could sit around with their ranged weapons and auto attack a boss while watching TV, getting downed and wiping every so often to break up the monotony.. but NO. Scumbag Swiftpaw came in and ruined it by making the mobs die faster.

Meanwhile in reality world:

• Scumbag elitist makes a group, states that he only wants zerk/scholar.. is then hit with a plague of play how you wants joining and hoping to slip through without being noticed and get carried. When he kicks them he is verbally abused in whispers. On the forums he has a ‘superiority complex’ and is ‘selfish’ for wanting a fast run.

• Play how you want makes a group with some general and non specific description -
  Evil scummy elitists avoid them and don’t join because elitists have an obvious ‘superiority complex’. Play how you want carries on with his business undisturbed. Is heralded as a hero by the community for being ‘the other side of the coin’ and a special snowflake. Can’t understand why he gets kicked from scumbag elitist’s ‘zerk+ scholar only’ advertised runs on his full cleric’s mace/shield guardian.

Man I LOVE equality.

I had a feeling swiftpaw would come in and put the hammer down on this one.

swiftpaw.6397:

Yes, I too remember the times when I would join a play how you want party in the lfg and then proceed to make their runs more efficient by playing meta. Man I was an awful individual, forcing my meta ways on them. I bet they were after nice slow runs where they could sit around with their ranged weapons and auto attack a boss while watching TV, getting downed and wiping every so often to break up the monotony.. but NO. Scumbag Swiftpaw came in and ruined it by making the mobs die faster.

Meanwhile in reality world:

• Scumbag elitist makes a group, states that he only wants zerk/scholar.. is then hit with a plague of play how you wants joining and hoping to slip through without being noticed and get carried. When he kicks them he is verbally abused in whispers. On the forums he has a ‘superiority complex’ and is ‘selfish’ for wanting a fast run.

• Play how you want makes a group with some general and non specific description -
  Evil scummy elitists avoid them and don’t join because elitists have an obvious ‘superiority complex’. Play how you want carries on with his business undisturbed. Is heralded as a hero by the community for being ‘the other side of the coin’ and a special snowflake. Can’t understand why he gets kicked from scumbag elitist’s ‘zerk+ scholar only’ advertised runs on his full cleric’s mace/shield guardian.

Man I LOVE equality.

Black Box.9312:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

cranked.3812:

People for stacking and skipping don’t discredit those who are against it.

Yes they do. People fling kitten at each other from both sides; neither party is innocent in the slightest.

Not really, this is because when non-stackers enter a party of stackers, they get kicked. Non-stacking/skipping parties are so rare that it is unlikely that a stacker will end up in one, and once he’s a minority, he’ll simply leave.

However, if by discrediting you mean telling people in the forums how inefficient their methods are, then you’re kinda right, but that only occurs as a result of the endless amount of threads moaning about stacking/skipping.

No, they develop a massive superiority complex because the majority of them can’t stand the fact that there’s another side to the coin that has just as much right to their own opinion and result to slandering and trashing each other. It’s quite like a pair of political parties, really. Both always insist that the other is wrong and that they know exactly what is best for everyone else.

I don’t think that’s the case. I speak for myself but I think also many of the people I play with. It’s not that I can’t stand that “there’s another side to the coin”. Contrary to what the QQ threads would imply, meta players never want to play with “the other side of the coin”.

I made the mistake of trying to pug when my guild was unavailable. A few minutes into LFG and many kicks later, the angry messages convinced me it was time to call it quits and just wait until I had guildies. I don’t care if you think your PVT guardian is awesome. I don’t care if you think 25 AR is enough. I don’t care if you think gear check is ridiculous.

I play meta and I’ve played non-meta. I have never had a meta player come try to force their gameplay upon me. The trash players on the other hand? Always rude, always offensive. What gives you the right to be in my party if you don’t care about the way we do business?

Just something to think about. Enough with these “I’m the victim” threads.

I don’t see why people feel the need to troll these threads all the time. Just let them find out themselves what the number is like, regarding people wanting to do runs like these.

swiftpaw.6397:

Yes, I too remember the times when I would join a play how you want party in the lfg and then proceed to make their runs more efficient by playing meta. Man I was an awful individual, forcing my meta ways on them. I bet they were after nice slow runs where they could sit around with their ranged weapons and auto attack a boss while watching TV, getting downed and wiping every so often to break up the monotony.. but NO. Scumbag Swiftpaw came in and ruined it by making the mobs die faster.

Meanwhile in reality world:

• Scumbag elitist makes a group, states that he only wants zerk/scholar.. is then hit with a plague of play how you wants joining and hoping to slip through without being noticed and get carried. When he kicks them he is verbally abused in whispers. On the forums he has a ‘superiority complex’ and is ‘selfish’ for wanting a fast run.

• Play how you want makes a group with some general and non specific description -
  Evil scummy elitists avoid them and don’t join because elitists have an obvious ‘superiority complex’. Play how you want carries on with his business undisturbed. Is heralded as a hero by the community for being ‘the other side of the coin’ and a special snowflake. Can’t understand why he gets kicked from scumbag elitist’s ‘zerk+ scholar only’ advertised runs on his full cleric’s mace/shield guardian.

Man I LOVE equality.

The fact that you posted this here is contrary to the objective of your post.
Also, lose the point about saying “play how you want” players are looking to be carried. Leeching players exist on both sides, and on both sides, the majority of the players take pride in their builds and want to contribute however they can. Also, both sides don’t always post discriptions of their party want. (And on top of that, the layman’s version of the meta seems to be the current default, all should assume when entering a pug)

Meta players are generally cast as the villains because, usually they’re the one’s who say “you aren’t good enough” and they’re usually the ones that go around kicking other players that don’t fit their paradigm. Generally, people don’t like being told what classes they should be playing, what builds they should be running, and what tactics they should be using. But that’s what a lot of them feel is happening.
As long as the unmarked PUG is assumed to be a meta speed run, you can expect these threads to keep popping up.

I assume you refer to a group that has little to no description other than the path with “unmarked”?
If so then most of them aren’t exactly meta-speedruns in my experience. They are most often however people who just want a quick dungeon run for the reward and as such utilize the same tactics (including skipping in tactics here) a speedrun uses to some degree (and with various success).
There is a distinction between a speedy run and an actual (meta-)speedrun.

I agree those spreedy runs seem to be the default expectation and most people either don’t care or don’t think to advertise their group properly.
Actual (meta-)speedruns in my experience seem to more often than not clearly state so in their lfg description.

It would help tremendously if people advertised their lfg matchup more clearly. But I have to admit that I am guilty of just putting the path in often enough myself and assuming from experience that a “speedy run” is the default.
The problem in my case however is, if I put “speedy run” in the description, most people would assume I mean a (meta-)speedrun. And those I rarely do actually.
And the people joining me would be mostly annoyed that they were “mislead” by my description.

I don’t see an easy solution other than to take some time to look for likeminded people, build a guild or a solid friendslist and go from there. Because there actually is no “default” way to do a dungeon. Unless you define what most people do as a default. And even then you would be required to make a large enough survey to find out what most people actually do.

Dual.8953:

The fact that you posted this here is contrary to the objective of your post.

Then you have no idea what the actual objective of my post is.

I tend to play the generic pX dungeon Y groups. My expectation is that the run is done by people who know the basics of clearing quickly it without wipes. Which means stacking, LoSing, and skipping. I don’t expect the meta build, but it should be reasonable, I’m not class elitist, I know that all classes can be at least acceptable as long as the player can put one foot down each pant leg and not try to wear them on their head instead.

The play how you want players? 90 percent of them found in pugs can’t manage to figure out the basics of their class, defend crap weapon/builds with their dying breath, and blame zerkers for why the party failed when they are the ones spamming light fields blocking might stacks, and doing less damage than a summoning consumable (or mesmer clone…) I tolerate them because I’m not expecting a speed run, but they are sure as hell resented for leaching. I just want a reasonably fast in and out run with no fusses. Whenever you get a bearbow, staff guard, GS mesmer, healshout war, or conditions anything though…. Yeah, long boring run with more trouble than its worth idiots not doing things in the regular fashion, and not communicating their intent to kite and use knockbacks/fears. Seriously, get good, play the game for what it is, and not what you want it to be. Game became way more fun for me when I gave up trying to force it into something its not.

Dual.8953:

swiftpaw.6397:

Yes, I too remember the times when I would join a play how you want party in the lfg and then proceed to make their runs more efficient by playing meta.

The fact that you posted this here is contrary to the objective of your post.
Also, lose the point about saying “play how you want” players are looking to be carried. Leeching players exist on both sides

How do you arrive at the conclusion that a full meta, experienced player is leeching? We’re not talking about some rook who threw on Zerk armor and every signet he could find on his Warrior; not someone who face-tanks hits while hoping to out DPS.

How does a good meta player leech? They don’t. Any PuG they happen to be a part of, is always better for it.

Dual.8953:

The fact that you posted this here is contrary to the objective of your post.
Also, lose the point about saying “play how you want” players are looking to be carried. Leeching players exist on both sides, and on both sides, the majority of the players take pride in their builds and want to contribute however they can. Also, both sides don’t always post discriptions of their party want. (And on top of that, the layman’s version of the meta seems to be the current default, all should assume when entering a pug)

What?!? How is a meta player ever leeching off a group? I’m going to need an example of that one.

Your right. I don’t see many “Staff guards only/ please have zero DPS so this can take an hour” groups. BUT, when a person puts “meta only/zerk+scholar runes”, it seems people think it’s a free pass to join with builds that “contribute however they can”. They can contribute by playing the meta or not joining groups that don’t fit the builds they run.

Dual.8953:

Meta players are generally cast as the villains because, usually they’re the one’s who say “you aren’t good enough” and they’re usually the ones that go around kicking other players that don’t fit their paradigm. Generally, people don’t like being told what classes they should be playing, what builds they should be running, and what tactics they should be using. But that’s what a lot of them feel is happening.
As long as the unmarked PUG is assumed to be a meta speed run, you can expect these threads to keep popping up.

People wouldn’t have to be told what builds to run if they would stay out of the groups that ask for something else. Join the LFG posts that fit your build and we wouldn’t have so many QQ threads here all the time. So, you think it’s OK to go to Mcdonalds and ask for a Whopper and when they can’t give it to you, you should yell at the manager and ask him why he is “forcing” you to have a Big Mac? It’s time for a reality check for people like you.

I find that people with differing dungeon styles tend to HATE dungeoning with each other. I personally detest running like a sprinter through dungeons skipping what you can and steamrolling what you have to to get the reward and only the reward. I cant bring myself to do it, but do i demerit those who do, no. If its my party i made i will politely ask them to slow down, if they cant i tell them it may be best for them to find another party. If its theirs i will simply state i dislike the style of play and leave when it is convenient (Not mid boss fight or such)

All this whining and kittening doesn’t need to happen. I simply put “Slow casual explorer run path..(whatever)” and it tends to attract people who play like i do. Slow and fun not afraid to stop and chat and have some fun with it, the title alone tends to completely deter anyone who is expecting a speed run or stacking run. I think if us slow and casuals labeled ours and the speedsters labeled there runs there would be no problem, take responsibility for your own run.

Lastly i think that you have a right to kick someone if they don’t meet your lofty elitist requirements, but you don’t have to be a kitten about it. Say something to them like “Sorry, but were lookin for a bit higher stats this run, dont wana take that long” or say your only lookin for a specific class it fits out build. If they are rude that’s their problem dont be rude just because they are not “Strong enough” or you think they might be rude back.

Saint.5647:

Dual.8953:

swiftpaw.6397:

Yes, I too remember the times when I would join a play how you want party in the lfg and then proceed to make their runs more efficient by playing meta.

The fact that you posted this here is contrary to the objective of your post.
Also, lose the point about saying “play how you want” players are looking to be carried. Leeching players exist on both sides

How do you arrive at the conclusion that a full meta, experienced player is leeching? We’re not talking about some rook who threw on Zerk armor and every signet he could find on his Warrior; not someone who face-tanks hits while hoping to out DPS.

How does a good meta player leech? They don’t. Any PuG they happen to be a part of, is always better for it.

It’s a matter of perspective I guess. I suppose a more accurate way divide up the dungeon playerbase is, Meta Speedrunners, Casual Speedrunners, and Play how you want players.

Meta Speedrunners are looking for fast, flawless runs. At times with them it’s more about achieving that perfect time, then the reward at the end. They almost always mark their groups.

Casual Speedrunners make up the majority of the playerbase. Their usual focus is gold gain, and they want it fast, so they try to emulate the meta, though they don’t want to put as much effort into it, they just want a quick easy run. They’re pretty much the default you can expect joining an unmarked run.

“Play how you want” Players usually want to run a dungeon because they want to run a dungeon. Sure the reward is nice but they’re looking for the experience. Some want a challenge, some want to experiment with a strange new build or tactic, and others like the story. One common factor they share is none of them want to conform to a standard. As their goals are pretty much the opposite of the speedrunners, they don’t well mesh with the other two groups, and they commonly see all speedrunners as the same. Their player base is very dispersed, so they commonly have difficulty finding runs, which is likely why they make posts about the “evils of the meta”. From their perspective they’re a minority that’s being choked out.

When I was refering to leechers being on both sides, I was refering to the speedrunners as a whole. In truth, leecher only likely exist in the casual speedrunners. Meta speedrunners will hopefully kick them and the other group won’t give them what they want.

Dual.8953:

When I was refering to leechers being on both sides, I was refering to the speedrunners as a whole. In truth, leecher only likely exist in the casual speedrunners. Meta speedrunners will hopefully kick them and the other group won’t give them what they want.

By definition, ‘leechers’ exist in every group. They’re the players who are anchoring the group, by not pulling as much weight as the rest of the team. The difference lies in which ‘group’ cares the most about leechers. Play how you want groups probably won’t care too much, casual gold farm groups care too much, and the best groups are pretty quick to bench their anchors (hence why they’re the best).

Tohbais.5714:

I think if us slow and casuals labeled ours and the speedsters labeled there runs there would be no problem, take responsibility for your own run.

The speed run groups do label their groups as such, but no one ever reads the description.

Tohbais.5714:

Lastly i think that you have a right to kick someone if they don’t meet your lofty elitist requirements, but you don’t have to be a kitten about it. Say something to them like “Sorry, but were lookin for a bit higher stats this run, dont wana take that long” or say your only lookin for a specific class it fits out build. If they are rude that’s their problem dont be rude just because they are not “Strong enough” or you think they might be rude back.

So, I put a group up for “meta only or kick” and for everyone of the 100 people that needs kicking I have to politely ask them to leave? How about those people just read the lfg in the first place?

hybrid.5027:

Dual.8953:

When I was refering to leechers being on both sides, I was refering to the speedrunners as a whole. In truth, leecher only likely exist in the casual speedrunners. Meta speedrunners will hopefully kick them and the other group won’t give them what they want.

By definition, ‘leechers’ exist in every group. They’re the players who are anchoring the group, by not pulling as much weight as the rest of the team. The difference lies in which ‘group’ cares the most about leechers. Play how you want groups probably won’t care too much, casual gold farm groups care too much, and the best groups are pretty quick to bench their anchors (hence why they’re the best).

It seems our definition of leecher varies slightly. Your’s depends on the player’s capabilities so leecher is always the weakest player, and for me a leecher is a player who intentionally wants to be carried. A player who isn’t willing to put in effort. In the LA event, they’re the players who stand around at spawn waiting for the other players to earn them bags, in dungeon’s they’ll just follow along with everyone else and go through the motions, but never push themselves, they’re in it for what they see as a free ride to the prize at the end.

Saint.5647:

Black Box.9312:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

cranked.3812:

People for stacking and skipping don’t discredit those who are against it.

Yes they do. People fling kitten at each other from both sides; neither party is innocent in the slightest.

Not really, this is because when non-stackers enter a party of stackers, they get kicked. Non-stacking/skipping parties are so rare that it is unlikely that a stacker will end up in one, and once he’s a minority, he’ll simply leave.

However, if by discrediting you mean telling people in the forums how inefficient their methods are, then you’re kinda right, but that only occurs as a result of the endless amount of threads moaning about stacking/skipping.

No, they develop a massive superiority complex because the majority of them can’t stand the fact that there’s another side to the coin that has just as much right to their own opinion and result to slandering and trashing each other. It’s quite like a pair of political parties, really. Both always insist that the other is wrong and that they know exactly what is best for everyone else.

I don’t think that’s the case. I speak for myself but I think also many of the people I play with. It’s not that I can’t stand that “there’s another side to the coin”. Contrary to what the QQ threads would imply, meta players never want to play with “the other side of the coin”.

I made the mistake of trying to pug when my guild was unavailable. A few minutes into LFG and many kicks later, the angry messages convinced me it was time to call it quits and just wait until I had guildies. I don’t care if you think your PVT guardian is awesome. I don’t care if you think 25 AR is enough. I don’t care if you think gear check is ridiculous.

I play meta and I’ve played non-meta. I have never had a meta player come try to force their gameplay upon me. The trash players on the other hand? Always rude, always offensive. What gives you the right to be in my party if you don’t care about the way we do business?

Just something to think about. Enough with these “I’m the victim” threads.

If you’re not willing to admit that you’re just as much at fault as the other party, then you are only contributing to the problem.