Guild Wars 2

I apologize in advance

*cough *cough
[rant]

So I was doing fractal 25 Mai Trin, (normally I do T3s, but I needed a few for the ‘do all’ achievement)
I make a party, wanna get through it quick, so I call it:
[ F25, Mai Trin Daily, exp ]
so next, four people join, all fine, they’re skilled as it seems, we kill the add champion pretty quick, good feeling about the boss.

So we run in.. all 4 drop dead instantly.. not losing health, not getting ticks, INSTANTLY
So I ask them if they have any AR, 2 of them reply ‘Whats AR?’ and one of them replies with ‘no, didn’t think I’d need it yet’.

So, to turn my rant into something more constructive:

To anet: I’d like to see a barrier check, if you enter a fractal, and your AR is so low you instantly die at the boss stage from the very air, you shouldn’t even be able to enter, you have no business being there. Block them at the gate, ask them for ID, and if their AR is below 18 don’t let them in.
Or at least, give people a way to see their AR, like, replace their level with AR, since everyone’s 80 anyway

To the playerbase: when you enter fractals check the suggested Agony Resistance in the level box. If you’re lower than the suggested level, let your party know. They can be fine with it, you won’t instantly be kicked, but people can be prepared. And if you’re more than 10 behind the suggested, I suggest you take a lower level, earn some tokens, and buy/craft more AR infusions.

[/rant]

You can check the AR of every player before you enter the specific island. Just insist on the check so you can see if there is a player trying to sneak into your group or someone who is just inexperienced.

leeloo dallas multipass.

I like the idea of just showing the level of AR instead of the mastery level.
If you’re not 80, you most likely won’t have enough AR anyway.

Deihnyx.6318:

leeloo dallas multipass.

I like the idea of just showing the level of AR instead of the mastery level.
If you’re not 80, you most likely won’t have enough AR anyway.

the fifth element

Good idea.

I think the AR check at the lab is no longer there or I missed it somehow, but in the past I met a couple of people that when asked to check their AR, they received damage.
Being a level 100 Mai Trin run, I was not OK to proceed of course.
At that stage, people who were missing AR obviously, would start to talk trash and swear on all saints that it is not fair, that they do have 150 AR and…the most funny one I met, that they wear full vipers and I am out of my mind to ask him to have 150 AR.
So people will be…I guess people.
For this reason, AR check right at start would solve the problem of getting through the level only to find at the end boss or in middle way that some people in the party do not have the AR and in some cases (I met several) NO AR AT ALL while attempting T4s.

Deepcuts.9740:

Good idea.
I think the AR check at the lab is no longer there

It’s still there.

Amaimon.7823:

To anet: I’d like to see a barrier check, if you enter a fractal, and your AR is so low you instantly die at the boss stage from the very air, you shouldn’t even be able to enter, you have no business being there. Block them at the gate, ask them for ID, and if their AR is below 18 don’t let them in.
Or at least, give people a way to see their AR, like, replace their level with AR, since everyone’s 80 anyway

Players should not be restricted from entering fractals because their AR is too low. Many maps are possible even with zero AR if you know the mechanics well enough, and it also prevents you from carrying your lower AR friends through for dailies.

However, replacing players’ level in the party UI with their AR is an extremely good idea. We already have level replaced by spent mastery points in the UI and we have general dailies swap to fotm dailies in the observatory, so there is precedent and there shouldn’t be any technical issue. It also makes AR a more obvious mechanic than being just another tiny number on the stats panel (“what is the zero by my name?!?”).

Dinosaurs.8674:

Amaimon.7823:

To anet: I’d like to see a barrier check, if you enter a fractal, and your AR is so low you instantly die at the boss stage from the very air, you shouldn’t even be able to enter, you have no business being there. Block them at the gate, ask them for ID, and if their AR is below 18 don’t let them in.
Or at least, give people a way to see their AR, like, replace their level with AR, since everyone’s 80 anyway

Players should not be restricted from entering fractals because their AR is too low. Many maps are possible even with zero AR if you know the mechanics well enough, and it also prevents you from carrying your lower AR friends through for dailies.

However, replacing players’ level in the party UI with their AR is an extremely good idea. We already have level replaced by spent mastery points in the UI and we have general dailies swap to fotm dailies in the observatory, so there is precedent and there shouldn’t be any technical issue. It also makes AR a more obvious mechanic than being just another tiny number on the stats panel (“what is the zero by my name?!?”).

I think he’s specifically talking about boss fractals.
I have a much better idea though: Remove the AR you get from entering boss rooms because that does nothing besides acting as gating, which is utter bullkitten in my opinion
Bad enough that 91+ are gated

It wasn’t low AR that killed you. It’s a bug. I’ve reported it, but only once, because you start fighting too quickly to keep typing.

Try to report it while you are dead.

Deihnyx.6318:

leeloo dallas multipass.

I like the idea of just showing the level of AR instead of the mastery level.
If you’re not 80, you most likely won’t have enough AR anyway.

Sure, this would make fractals more like WvW and PvP: show the value that’s relevant (AR), rather than one that isn’t.

Another reason to let us inspect other players gear.

Chingiz.9167:

Another reason to let us inspect other players gear.

Not really. If he was that worried about it he could of asked if people meet the minimum AR before going in.

simplesimon.2084:

Chingiz.9167:

Another reason to let us inspect other players gear.

Not really. If he was that worried about it he could of asked if people meet the minimum AR before going in.

It’s just one part of gear, the bit that is the difference between dying instantly and being around to help.

Chingiz.9167:

Another reason to let us inspect other players gear.

I dont wanna know their stats, i wanna know their AR

simplesimon.2084:

Chingiz.9167:

Another reason to let us inspect other players gear.

Not really. If he was that worried about it he could of asked if people meet the minimum AR before going in.

I am that worried, and I do ask now, but people usually dont respond, or make it a hassle to tell. Then, if I have to kick someone I give the command, but in the lobby most people are sluggish or not paying attention. I just wanna see on a getgo if someone will die at the start without even being able to contribute or not.

To make it clear, there doest need a hard barrier, some people are good at dodging or can outheal ticks of AR. But if your AR is so low that you instadown upon entering the ring, why bother coming? You cant parttake in the fight, you cant help, you’re only filling a slot where someone COULD’VE done something.
So i’m fine with a softbarrier.
Suggested AR – 10 = allowed to enter.
Then you can at least outheal the ticks.

You can still persist that everybody goes into the AR spot (It’s still there in the same corner as before!) in the lobby and deny the teleport into the fractal by clicking “No” if you have the opinion the group is not ready to go but someone went into the circle to start.
Every five players (that means yourself included) have to accept the request otherwise the fractal cannot start. So, just use that information and ask everybody to go into the spot before the beginning of your fractal journey.
The ones who refuse/not listen or whatever are getting kicked. Simple as it is.

We are doing this procedure on runs when running Mai Trin 100 and there is some suspicious, unusual behaviour/chat parts of players in the lobby. You will save a lot of anger & frustration on both sides because nobody is happy getting kicked inside a fractal during or just in front of a fight and on the other hand the people with AR don’t want to carry random players without the required amount. It takes seconds, not minutes and my experience in the lobby is that players react fast to it.

The softbarrier is not realizable because you can change the fractal difficulty in the lobby.

I’m also against the possibility to see everyone’s AR. While I don’t care due to the fact I have wide over 150 on my fractal chars there are still players around not wanting everybody to have their amount randomly inspected like the gear. Therefore you can make your rules and kick the ones not accepting them.

Vinceman.4572:

I’m also against the possibility to see everyone’s AR. While I don’t care due to the fact I have wide over 150 on my fractal chars there are still players around not wanting everybody to have their amount randomly inspected like the gear. Therefore you can make your rules and kick the ones not accepting them.

I don’t really see how this is a problem? I mean, when you go to a bar, no one complains about infringement when they check your age. In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m not against players seeking their limits, or a challenge. Nor do I want to keep people from playing fractals.
That does not, however, line up with the fact that people who don’t have any AR, those people CAN NOT and WILL NOT be ABLE TO support the group IN ANY WAY, they will drop dead as soon as they enter the boss area, and will NEVER get the chance to perform even the SLIGHTEST. Even if you rez them, they will be downed immediatly again if they are not god-level dodgers. and at a higher level, you will always take some Agony damage regardless of your AR.

What I’m saying is, there is ABSOLUTELY NO reason for anyone with an instadeath amount of AR to be in a fractral, other than the purpose of slowing down the rest. THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING ELSE, even if they want to help. there are only downsides to let these people in fractals, you hilter their fun, their will to perform well, and hilter the fun of the rest of the party.

Have you even read Dinosaurs words?

Dinosaurs.8674:

Players should not be restricted from entering fractals because their AR is too low. Many maps are possible even with zero AR if you know the mechanics well enough…

1. I know many players & guilds that using the AR mechanic for a challenge and run without AR. You would exclude them from it and take away their fun without necessity.

2. You have all the tools to prevent anyone from dying instantly within a fractal due to lack of AR.
Here’s a part of the list:
a) LFG with clear and understandable requirements (english highly preferred or just restrict it to your mother tongue.
b) AR checking spot in the lobby – one of the best implementation
c) Possibility to kick people out of a group if they don’t meet the requirement a.k.a. not having the AR they need

3. I stand on my point. You have no right and no need due to given tools to see any other players AR. You can ask politely and maybe you get a number as answer.

AR issues you mentioned in your first post are so rare (1 out of 50 runs?) it makes absolutely no sense to spend more development time into it. I’d rather prefer to delete AR as a whole than stupid changes like a soft-/hardbarrier. We don’t need this subject to be more complicated, that’s why Anet has changed the infusion mechanic recently with their latest content patch.

Since you are not willing to use the stated tools although they are bringing you the enjoyment you want to have (= people with enough AR) within seconds, I see no point discussing in this thread any longer.

@Vincemen: your procedure is a more tedious example of what people are asking for — you force everyone to AR-check before the fractal manually. The suggestion is to make it easy for people to see.

There are a couple reasons why seeing the number is useful:
(1) Helping other people understand what they are about to get into.

My group doesn’t PUG much. 99% of the time, when we have an extra, it’s a friend or guildie. A lot of times, they don’t have the recommended AR and they aren’t familiar with the the instance or the tier and they aren’t familiar with the fractal.

We never tell people they can’t continue — on the contrary, sometimes we insist that they remain. We do, however, want them to know what they might have to deal with. It simplifies things a lot if we can see their AR, rather than to keep asking.

(2) People sometimes forget to swap toons or AR gear. This makes it trivial for us to find out before we start.

As it turns out, nearly all of these concerns can be resolved by a binary question: do they have recommended AR or not? So I’d also be okay if the nameplate doesn’t show the actual number, just whether it’s ‘sufficient’, ‘close’ or ‘dangerously too low’, e.g. perhaps show the letters ’AR ’ in green, orange, or red.

Since you don’t need AR for the first levels + you are introduced via panel when entering and npcs explaining stuff I still don’t think it is necessary to let others see your AR.

It’s also higlighted in with colored big letters of “Suggested Agony Resistance” if your AR is lower than the required numbers.
Additionally, when entering the color of every level is colored on the panel if you aren’t bringing the amount of AR needed. It also is in the upper right corner in the lobby.

Almost every player with level 80 heard about fractals before starting or was introduced by a guild including a rudimentary explanation of AR. I cannot really imagine people go fully blind into fracs above lvl 20 and being astonished that they die.

From all the other experienced ones we can expect reasonable actions and while this is common sense there almost are no problems with players lacking AR. I never had a player that took a wrong char because he forgot that there isn’t the required gear on this one. Sounds rather funny than realistic.

In the end, I strongly believe it is not necessary that you have to supervise 4 players as a leader of a guild group with the things I stated above. Especially if you take guildies with you you can simply ask what is standing in their upper right corner when you all meet in the lobby. Again a matter of seconds.

Vinceman.4572:

Since you don’t need AR for the first levels + you are introduced via panel when entering and npcs explaining stuff I still don’t think it is necessary to let others see your AR.

It’s also higlighted in orange with big letters of “Suggested Agony Resistance” if your AR is lower than the required numbers.
Additionally, when entering the color of every level is yellow on the panel if you aren’t bringing the amount of AR needed. It also is in the upper right corner in the lobby.

Almost every player with level 80 heard about fractals before starting or was introduced by a guild including a rudimentary explanation of AR. I cannot really imagine people go fully blind into fracs above lvl 20 and being astonished that they die.

From all the other experienced ones we can expect reasonable actions and while this is common sense there almost are no problems with players lacking AR. I never had a player that took a wrong char because he forgot that there isn’t the required gear on this one. Sounds rather funny than realistic.

In the end, I strongly believe it is not necessary that you have to supervise 4 players as a leader of a guild group with the things I stated above. Especially if you take guildies with you you can simply ask what is standing in their upper right corner when you all meet in the lobby. Again a matter of seconds.

Well good that there are no leaders in 5 man groups anymore then.
+ as you say its already visible the ar and if your to low when going to fractal portal.

Linken.6345:

Vinceman.4572:

Since you don’t need AR for the first levels + you are introduced via panel when entering and npcs explaining stuff I still don’t think it is necessary to let others see your AR.

It’s also higlighted in orange with big letters of “Suggested Agony Resistance” if your AR is lower than the required numbers.
Additionally, when entering the color of every level is yellow on the panel if you aren’t bringing the amount of AR needed. It also is in the upper right corner in the lobby.

Almost every player with level 80 heard about fractals before starting or was introduced by a guild including a rudimentary explanation of AR. I cannot really imagine people go fully blind into fracs above lvl 20 and being astonished that they die.

From all the other experienced ones we can expect reasonable actions and while this is common sense there almost are no problems with players lacking AR. I never had a player that took a wrong char because he forgot that there isn’t the required gear on this one. Sounds rather funny than realistic.

In the end, I strongly believe it is not necessary that you have to supervise 4 players as a leader of a guild group with the things I stated above. Especially if you take guildies with you you can simply ask what is standing in their upper right corner when you all meet in the lobby. Again a matter of seconds.

Well good that there are no leaders in 5 man groups anymore then.
+ as you say its already visible the ar and if your to low when going to fractal portal.

trust me
No one reads that red insuffucient AR warning.
Been trying to ask people for their levels or step through that ar counter, but then I get kicked from my own made party delaying the fractal because they rather make a problem out of it before just telling me gheir AR levels….

Hmm, crazy and extraordinary.
I don’t have problems with pugs not meeting the required AR or not wanting to go into the spot at T4. Even today, it was a bit annyoing at dredge boss but there hasn’t been any issue – and I’m doing this daily. Dunno why you have so many problems.

Vinceman.4572:

Hmm, crazy and extraordinary.
I don’t have problems with pugs not meeting the required AR or not wanting to go into the spot at T4. Even today, it was a bit annyoing at dredge boss but there hasn’t been any issue – and I’m doing this daily. Dunno why you have so many problems.

Maybe its because people at t4 take fractals seriously, people at T1-3 propably think “oh, i dont need AR, they’ll carry me”

Just like dps meters, gear inspect and now the AR check, people against these ideas are most likely people that do not meet the requirements.
Lost count how many players tried to get carried in T4s with zero AR!
At least they should say so and maybe people will be ok to rez him/her.
But keeping quiet about it or even better, having no clue what AR is….
Just saying “Because I don’t wan’t to” does not make it a counter-argument.
All we do here, on forums, is throw ideas around. Most likely, no Anet dev will listen to this anyways.

Thank God forum moderators are active

Deepcuts.9740:

Good idea.

I think the AR check at the lab is no longer there or I missed it somehow, but in the past I met a couple of people that when asked to check their AR, they received damage.
Being a level 100 Mai Trin run, I was not OK to proceed of course.
At that stage, people who were missing AR obviously, would start to talk trash and swear on all saints that it is not fair, that they do have 150 AR and…the most funny one I met, that they wear full vipers and I am out of my mind to ask him to have 150 AR.
So people will be…I guess people.
For this reason, AR check right at start would solve the problem of getting through the level only to find at the end boss or in middle way that some people in the party do not have the AR and in some cases (I met several) NO AR AT ALL while attempting T4s.

Some warrior trash talked me for half an hour after he blocked me so I couldn’t respond, despite the fact that he/she was ranging the whole Mai Trin fight, and as soon as agony hit them, they dropped 80% of their health. It was hilarious, because I had to convince the party to kick them. So the whole fight I just kept following them around, in order to proc the proximity agony at 100. Just imagine one character following another around in order to prove they didn’t have enough AR.

But no, I was the reason they were dying. Not their poor life decisions to not bring enough AR.

My current problem is, that most people dont respond when I ask them what their AR is, or they make a bit deal out of walking through that spark saying ‘just start the kitten fractal already’
And then I get kicked for not pressing ready in the queue..
So all in all, the current mechanic is actually protecting people with Agony Defficiency

I think many fotms levels should have an ar check at the start. The ar check in the lab never worked correctly. It so easy and cheap now to get ar now there no reasons not to have it if you want to run the higher level fotm. I can not count the times we get to the last boss and have to 3 or 4 man it and someone gets a freeb.

But for the people hitting the 25 scale I do see them having a hard time seeing how to get the ar up. Like the need to make ascend armor or do guild missions or get other ascend gear. Maybe a quest to one of those vendors would help. Like the old daily.

And Fotm should not be gated for people with the bought the base game it old content.

Gim

well, maybe a solution to this would be to put the AR checker right by the gate where you first load into lobby, then everyone would know for sure who has the correct amount of AR and don’t have to argue with people to use it, it’d be automatic.

Or they could add an agony pulse to the fractal level selector. Once you confirm the selection it pulses a wave of agony. Ar checking shouldnt be optional , but it also shouldnt be a chore like it is now to try get everyone to gather on the ar check area in the lobby. If it was added to the selector then everyone would be checked at the same time, so no one would be singled out.

Deepcuts.9740:

Just like dps meters, gear inspect and now the AR check, people against these ideas are most likely people that do not meet the requirements.
Lost count how many players tried to get carried in T4s with zero AR!
At least they should say so and maybe people will be ok to rez him/her.
But keeping quiet about it or even better, having no clue what AR is….
Just saying “Because I don’t wan’t to” does not make it a counter-argument.
All we do here, on forums, is throw ideas around. Most likely, no Anet dev will listen to this anyways.
Thank God forum moderators are active

People seem to hate the idea of being inspected and thus being judged by others and ArenaNet has done their outmost to prevent that. You can not even see their HP in the party HUD as that would allow you to guess the stats they use.

The only way I can see to please both sides is the LFG tool to be expanded to allow you to set up detailed requirements potential pugs have to meet before they can actually join.
Basically, this would allow players to actively enforce the requirements they set. It would prevent those who either ignore your requirements or even outright lie to you from even joining in the first place.
This would never happen, obviously. People oppose the idea to have anyone decide on what they should play even if it is for content they aren’t interested in or requirements of parties they would never join.

See the thing is… They died because they hit anet’s barrier check… :/

Threads with title like this are a bit tricky, there can be good suggestions but still be dismissed, perhaps even by devs, because the title says it is a rant.

Anyway, I believe a good and easy way to avoid further problems with people who don’t meet the AR requirement is an adjustment to the way the party enters the island and an UI improvement.

Make it so everyone in the party needs to step on the portal area for a ready check which will also make a quick check on each character’s Agony Resistance. Add the information in the ready window with the fractal level, the fractal island, the suggested agony resistance and which characters meet or not the requirement. Something like this:

Since we’re going to Orr I suppose its fine to rise a topic from the ashes that is still an issue from time to time.

I still run into tier 3 fractals where people run inti the boss stage and i stantly drop dead because they dont have half the necessary AR

Maybe the overlook area itself needs to pulse agony so you can directly see who meets the bar

Amaimon.7823:

Since we’re going to Orr I suppose its fine to rise a topic from the ashes that is still an issue from time to time.

I still run into tier 3 fractals where people run inti the boss stage and i stantly drop dead because they dont have half the necessary AR

Maybe the overlook area itself needs to pulse agony so you can directly see who meets the bar

What, my friend, has this to do with Orr?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Amaimon.7823:

Since we’re going to Orr I suppose its fine to rise a topic from the ashes that is still an issue from time to time.

I still run into tier 3 fractals where people run inti the boss stage and i stantly drop dead because they dont have half the necessary AR

Maybe the overlook area itself needs to pulse agony so you can directly see who meets the bar

What, my friend, has this to do with Orr?

Undead? Necromancy?

Raising all your dead topics?
Well, since Orr as you said, sounds legit.

Amaimon.7823:

Since we’re going to Orr I suppose its fine to rise a topic from the ashes that is still an issue from time to time.

I still run into tier 3 fractals where people run inti the boss stage and i stantly drop dead because they dont have half the necessary AR

Maybe the overlook area itself needs to pulse agony so you can directly see who meets the bar

It does this already though.

There’s the small pulse circle that ticks at the rate of the selected fractal as well as being able to test each instability (with pulsing AR) near the start of the JP.

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