Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer : I don’t think I have THE solution, this is just an idea that i’m proposing to all of you.

Problematic :
Since now a very long time, dungeons party are stucked in this so called “zerk meta”. In fact this is just the most efficient way to do dungeon since the faster you kill mobs, the easier it is to survive any fight. This mindset has lead to the very whole approch we got of dungeons and it’s narrowing class choice as well as gear choice to the depressing “zerk meta”.

A way to shake that :
What i’m suggesting is to allow some changes to the Unshakable buff of dungeon champions. You know, this gray icone that grant some hard control immunity to dungeon mobs after a control.
My idea would be to give this buff three declension that would rotate each time you remove all defiance buff. Each of these declension would promote a different party gameplay. Let’s list them (I give them some color to differentiate them) :

Blue buff : Gains defiance when targeted by crowd-control skills. Blind is 10% as effective. While not under chill effect the champion take only 20% damage.

Green buff : Gains defiance when targeted by crowd-control skills. Blind is 10% as effective. The champion can’t take critical hit, conditions do 50% more damage.

_Yellow buff : Gains defiance when targeted by crowd-control skills. Blind is 10% as effective. For each player in [distance] radius, the champion take 20% less damage. (this does not apply if there is only one player in this area)

Explanation :
- The blue buff will clearly be the most prefered for organized speed run. Maintaining it for the fight duration will certainly prove to be a kittenallenging but this should promote a bit more diversity in the party gear.

- The green buff is here to promote condition damage and the fact that the champion will be immune to critical strike will give player a harder time caping condition stack. The critical immunity will also grant some place for tanky gear.

- The yellow buff should promote range strategy and allow players to still be able to solo dungeon.

Conclusion :
I think this should be enough to promote more variety in dungeon while still keeping things in line with the current game. Also… You can name the differents buff hoever you want, i’m to lazy to give them a proper name.

TL;DR: Let’s punish those who use zerkers.

Or new dungeons?

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Or new dungeons?

Taku.6352:

TL;DR: Let’s punish those who use zerkers.

Feel like you read nothing… This doesn’t punish zerker at all, this add more room for diversity.

Please no…

LFGs will look like “80 experienced, bring chill or kick”. . . sounds so much more fun . . .

That’s not to mention how it would hurt the control role “Do I interrupt or not? if I do the attack is stopped but then it pushes it into the other type of group and we need 10 more CCs to hit to get it back into our type”

So please, no.

Offering a solution presupposes there is a problem.

I disagree entirely that the “zerk meta” is a problem in need of a solution, so I have to take issue with the entire offering.

Dadnir.5038:

Taku.6352:

TL;DR: Let’s punish those who use zerkers.

Feel like you read nothing… This doesn’t punish zerker at all, this add more room for diversity.

No it won’t. Except for the difference between condition and power build, gear have nothing to do with build diversity. You gain that diversity with trait, sigils, runes, skills, weapons. Gear only give you a balance between Damage and Survivability.

That doesn’t mean that diversity should be increased, but you target something that isn’t a problem. Talk about fixing condition damage in PvE or adding some meaningful support build like they did with Phalanx trait or stuff like that. Not awkwardly forcing ppl into specific build that are not good right now.

I felt a need to momentarily revive this ancient tradition.
#throwback

100% REAL, LEGIT AND NOT SATIRICAL PATCH NOTES

Following feedback from the majority of our players, we are making the following changes to dungeons to bring them further in line with our original design manifesto.

Currently, players of any level are able to enter any dungeon, an oversight by our original dungeon team. This has been exploited by certain players to level new characters faster than we think they should. These exploiters have all been permanently banned, and to prevent further occurrences and enhance dungeons we have made the following changes:

• Dungeon story modes must now be unlocked by being of the appropriate level, and bringing a special item tangentially related to the dungeon to the NPC outaide the dungeon. This special item can only be obtained from world boss chests, and is not a guaranteed drop. Explorable modes now require story mode to be completed before players can enter such instances.

• All dungeons are now contestable, and new meta event chains have been added in the vicinity of dungeon entrances that are required to progress if the dungeon is to open, as part of an initiative to promote immersion and encouraging players to explore the open world.

The New Player Experience (NPE) has been integrated into dungeons to assist newer players making their first foray into this poorly designed excuse for a farm lore-rich instanced content. Henceforth:

• All cutscenes are now unskippable and players are forced to sit through minutes of boring monologue richly voice acted scenarios including one involving a charr telling an asura that his plan is stupid and won’t work.

• Popups will now appear throughout story mode dungeons containing useful information, such as informing you that the chests spawned at certain points in the dungeon might give you a legendary precursor, et cetera.

• Completion of a dungeon will now reward you with an unsalvageable masterwork aquatic breather, in addition to Empyreal Fragments.

Other changes not necessarily pertaining to dungeons:

• Trahearne has now been added to all dungeon instances to tie dungeons in with the Personal Story and Living World. In each dungeon, there is now a compulsory objective to rescue Trahearne after the main path has been completed.

• Added a new boss to all dungeon paths as part of the Trahearne rescue: Legendary Mordrem Dredge Disaggregator. This boss, in addition to applying protection every 10 seconds with a gong, will randomly stun you with said gong and summon dredge cars that endlessly spawn Mordrem Teragriff Bashers until destroyed.

• Dungeon clear times are now tracked, and the NPC outside each dungeon or the vendors in Lion’s Arch will show the slowest 3 clears of the day, as well as the average clear time of the dungeon. Players who complete all dungeon paths in 20 minutes faster than the average times of each path in a day will receive an Ascended chest containing their choice of a piece of armor with Nomad stats, and a new title: Berserker Elitist.

• Berserker gear has been renamed to Elitist gear, while Assassin’s gear has been renamed Tryhard/Wannabe gear.

This statement exists for the sole purpose of indicating that the notes above are satirical (if the title wasn’t obvious enough), that I am well aware that this thread is worthy of bingo, that I may get infracted for spreading misinformation (which would be stupid, since I made it pretty obvious this is fake, yes I was suspended for that very reason) and that I pity any sucker who believes that this post is a genuine set of patch notes by ArenaNet representatives, which I am not. Seriously, why am I including this disclaimer? It ruins the fun.

Signed,
LOD’s elitist jaguar

Lindbur.2537:

• Completion of a dungeon will now reward you with an unsalvageable masterwork aquatic breather, in addition to Empyreal Fragments.

…

• […] Players who complete all dungeon paths in 20 minutes faster than the average times of each path in a day will receive an Ascended chest containing their choice of a piece of armor with Nomad stats, and a new title: Berserker Elitist.

I’m dying.

10/10 would giggle again.

I think that if they just add 5 defiance before the boss enters in combat would make dungeons a bit harder. Would avoid opening with icebow5 and kill boss before he can even reacts. Or at least make it harder and require more coordination to land bow#5.

Lindbur.2537:

….will receive an Ascended chest containing their choice of a piece of armor with Nomad stats….

Isn’t that like Fractals? Be creative : [

Loved the post apart from that!

Good to know that I’m making people smile

xDudisx.5914:

I think that if they just add 5 defiance before the boss enters in combat would make dungeons a bit harder. Would avoid opening with icebow5 and kill boss before he can even reacts. Or at least make it harder and require more coordination to land bow#5.

Head Shot.

I believe this had to be the most meaningfull post out there.

Thaddeus.4891:

Dadnir.5038:

Taku.6352:

TL;DR: Let’s punish those who use zerkers.

Feel like you read nothing… This doesn’t punish zerker at all, this add more room for diversity.

No it won’t. Except for the difference between condition and power build, gear have nothing to do with build diversity. You gain that diversity with trait, sigils, runes, skills, weapons. Gear only give you a balance between Damage and Survivability.

That doesn’t mean that diversity should be increased, but you target something that isn’t a problem. Talk about fixing condition damage in PvE or adding some meaningful support build like they did with Phalanx trait or stuff like that. Not awkwardly forcing ppl into specific build that are not good right now.

I do agree with what you’re saying but i can’t imagine dev designing traits for all classes to be usefull at all because this would cripple their beloved pvp.

What we periodically see on this forum (for PvE) are complaints stating :
- There is no challenging content and dungeon are especially easy.
- Some classes are useless/unwanted in dungeon.
- You can’t play how you want to play, you gotta play zerker.

What i believe the change i propose could add to the game :
- A bit more challenging content : having to “ready” your boss before engaging him would make classes like mesmer and thieves even more welcome then now.

- Including a buff that allow damage only if the taget is chilled would maybe make rangers and necromancer, which are among the best to provide chill, a bit more welcome in dungeon. (I know that elementalist are pretty good at that but what aren’t they good at?)

- Don’t forget that there are boss that purge themselve and that why being able to chose which buff you want to handle on which boss could be a great addition. (ex : You would probably do CoE golem with the range buff).

- Removing the stupid nerf to weakness on the unshakable buff could also allow player that want to build defensively to be able to better manage any survivability. I know first handely that it’s possible to facetank bosses in dungeon but having more room to do it would probably help diversity.

- A buff that prevent any critical strike and allow condition damage to do more damage is a cheap solution to fix condition damage, at least in dungeon. This allow all party member to have more room to actually inflict any condition by clearing all short lasting condition given from critical strikes that remove longlasting condition. This also allow defensive build to not be a burden from an offensive point of view.

Lindyboy
To the op, no from my side!

Dadnir.5038:

What we periodically see on this forum (for PvE) are complaints stating :
- There is no challenging content and dungeon are especially easy.
- Some classes are useless/unwanted in dungeon.
- You can’t play how you want to play, you gotta play zerker.

1. Dungeons and fractals are no longer challenging because we’ve been running the same exact paths for over 2 years now. It gets boring and repetive and there’s only so much room for improvement. Add new dungeons and fractals and people will again fi.d challenging content.

2. Only one class has no specialised role in PvE and that is necromancer, every other class has enough utility or party support to be considered useful and wanted in dungeon runs and end game PvE. Give necro a unique party buff/mechanism that isn’t completely selfish like most of their current skills and you will start seeing them accepted in PvE.

3. No one is forcing you to use zerker if you don’t want to. It’s as simple as creating your own LFG post to find like minded individuals to play with.

Dadnir.5038:

What we periodically see on this forum (for PvE) are complaints stating :
- There is no challenging content and dungeon are especially easy.
- Some classes are useless/unwanted in dungeon.
- You can’t play how you want to play, you gotta play zerker.

1) That’s because the content is old. AC was consider hard as hell in the first weeks of the game. You also need to consider the problem of scaling that make low level dungeon even more easier. That’s a content problem, not about how the game is played.
2) The only profession that is useless in dungeon is Necromancer. Ranger and Engineer where fixed months and months ago, but ppl are just stupid to keep up and still think that Ranger is bad.
3) Yes you can play how you want, but zerker/assassin is optimal. There will always be an optimal gear and whatever you do there will always be ppl that complain about it. What a huge part of these ppl really complain about is the lack of diversity. They don’t understand that diversity come from traits, weapons, skills, etc. They just make a fixation on the gear things and don’t see the whole picture.

Dadnir.5038:

What i believe the change i propose could add to the game :
- A bit more challenging content : having to “ready” your boss before engaging him would make classes like mesmer and thieves even more welcome then now.

Well thief is one of the three best profession in PvE right now, and Mesmer is part of always all records run, soo. Anyway, it won’t be more challenging. It will be frustrating in pugs, and in organized group it will take second to ’’prepare’’ the boss. We already keep removing its defiant to keep Icebowing 5 boss that like to move around with high hp like in HotW, and its just a pain in the kitten . Zero fun about that.

Dadnir.5038:

- Including a buff that allow damage only if the taget is chilled would maybe make rangers and necromancer, which are among the best to provide chill, a bit more welcome in dungeon. (I know that elementalist are pretty good at that but what aren’t they good at?)

I see your point, but that feel artificial. Also, both of these profession would need to run bad build to provide chill. And what happen to pugs group that don’t have chill? No organized group will want to fight with that buff so who will be organized enough to keep the chill, but still want to fight in that buff?

Dadnir.5038:

- Don’t forget that there are boss that purge themselve and that why being able to chose which buff you want to handle on which boss could be a great addition. (ex : You would probably do CoE golem with the range buff).

Why would you want to do that? Organized group will want to melee it and again non organized group will have a hard time keeping it in that buff even if they want to range.

Dadnir.5038:

- Removing the stupid nerf to weakness on the unshakable buff could also allow player that want to build defensively to be able to better manage any survivability. I know first handely that it’s possible to facetank bosses in dungeon but having more room to do it would probably help diversity.

That’s more like it. Weakness is a good thing that is under use right now. As useless in most dungeon like protection is, it would be a great addition for some dungeon (HotW) and fractal (archdiviner). It would also be a great thing for solo run and some hypothetical hard mode dungeon.

Dadnir.5038:

- A buff that prevent any critical strike and allow condition damage to do more damage is a cheap solution to fix condition damage, at least in dungeon. This allow all party member to have more room to actually inflict any condition by clearing all short lasting condition given from critical strikes that remove longlasting condition. This also allow defensive build to not be a burden from an offensive point of view.

I couldn’t say it better. Its a cheap solution. But defensive build would still be a burden from an offensive point of view because we would want to run Sinister stats, now Rabid or Carrion. If anet could fix condition build so they would be on par with direct damage build, it would be amazing. Give more diversity, give a place for the necromancer in PvE dungeon. I don’t like you solution, but I understand what are you intention and fixing condition at it source would be a WAY better solution.

The problem is not having 1 optimal build for a dungeon. The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons. Making changes in some bosses or all the bosses in some paths create space for more usage of the other gear.

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

more skills for characters could change something well maybe we need something like trinity but different somehow?

Evo.2319:

more skills for characters could change something well maybe we need something like trinity but different somehow?

No, we just need new dungeons. That’s it. Really the game is fine, it’s well designed. Those that don’t like zerk, don’t use it. But even with zerk there’s plenty of variety. The whole “PHIW” thing is kind of silly as your gear really just determines how important actively dodging/blocking/whatever is, tankier you are the more easily you can get away with not doing that, but as a side effect fights take longer. There’s nothing wrong with that system, people just complain.

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is not having 1 optimal build for a dungeon. The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons. Making changes in some bosses or all the bosses in some paths create space for more usage of the other gear.

What are you talking about? I switch stuff (trait, skills, weapons) around all the time on my Ele, Guardian and Thief in dungeon. I didn’t play Mesmer pve for a long time, but my friend is often switch build. You are right for Warrior, but that’s not an issue for all profession.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Are you equating “build” with “gear stats” only? It sounds that way…

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Been running Ele and Thief a lot lately.

Thief I constantly swap between D/P+Shortbow to D/D + Shortbow to S/P + Shortbow and sometimes D/D + S/P. With these I’ll run combos of 66200, 66002, 56030, and even 56300. The first for when I need to help with projectile defense in combat. Second as max DPS. Third as max dodging for times I feel i need it. and the last for easier stealth runs. Constantly swapping between almost every encounter to something. Using 3 different heals, and over half a dozen different utilities.

How is that not a variety?

Ele I use even more things, but it’s not easy to summarize and I’d point you to Dekey’s/ Zelyhn’s guides as they have it all. But I use S/D, S/F, D/F, and Staff weapon combos, lately I just use the scepter ones for might stacking as I PUG and LH in PUGs is a pain (kitten thieving bastiges) with that builds of 66200 typically for D/F, sometimes 66002. And 64022/64202 typically on staff depending on where I plan to stand and if I plan on getting hit but sometimes going to 64004.

I’d say every profession I play I will run at least 2 different trait setups regularly, most more like 4+, but warrior it’s either 65003 or 05063. Utilities are constantly swapping, weapons are changing quite often. Even gear is being swapped out for different rune sets at times (Strength runes for phalanx/non-staff Ele, or Centaur on mesmer for examples).

Your build is more than just your gear, and it changes very frequently even within single paths of dungeons.

I pug with all classes, I frequently switch around traits and weapons for different encounters, let alone for different dungeons. Game design and build variety are more than fine within this game, and I echo the opinion that the only thing we need is new dungeons to “shake things up”.

If players want to change things up and put on their condi/tanky/healy gear, they are free to do so and will still be able to complete the content. There are litterally ZERO barriers preventing them to do so. This is true variability in viability.

However what the OP suggests is for the content to lock players in a certain playstyle to complete the content. It is a terrible suggestion.

I’d also like to point out that closing the gap between “Meta-zerker-dps-elitist-build” and the more defensive build will not fix anything, it will cause even more trouble, the average player in GW2 is already pretty terrible (if you don’t think you’re terrible, consider yourself above average) it would just remove any incentive to get better.

As for dungeon, I find they are fine as they are (most of them) in other hand I wouldn’t mind seeing new mechanic, and bigger health pool for Raid bosses if we ever get those, but I also want them to be doable by using Beserker gear stats, even if it takes months of practice, I just want it to be active (using mitigation) and not passive (tanking the hit and healing)

Thing is, when berserker work, everything else work, but if you have to gear in Soldier because the boss has unavoidable attack, or attack very quickly with smaller hit, you’re forcing player to use a certain kind of gear, which is not the case with the current meta, you’re only limiting the amount of options.

I do miss long boss fight, recently watched some friends raiding in FF14 (turn 11), the boss had huge health pool, and the fight felt epic, however it was a lot slower, in GW2, one aegis miss can wipe your whole party, the danger is everywhere, unless you want to go the safe route and use tankier gear.

Anyway I’m not going to waste everyone times by arguing about something that people already said a thousand times

Dadnir.5038:

What we periodically see on this forum (for PvE) are complaints stating :
- There is no challenging content and dungeon are especially easy.
- Some classes are useless/unwanted in dungeon.
- You can’t play how you want to play, you gotta play zerker.

This is the first online game I’ve ever played where people seem to be upset that there is an optimal setup for classes. I’m really confused by it because I feel like pretty much every online game, especially MMOs, have it. I think people saw anet’s sell of “play how you want” and it took it as “everything is equally effective”. There is no way to make tanky gear as effective. It simply doesn’t doesn’t make sense. Why would anyone run zerker gear if PVT was just as effective?

As others have stated, GW2’s playstyle is basically “bring enough to survive – rest DPS”, and at the fault of anet’s, they made a game where you can survive completely on utility, traits, and base defensive stats alone. This leads to 1 obvious outcome: the optimal gear is the gear that offers highest DPS. It’s just the natural outcome of the game they designed. Now, I think it’s totally okay for you to wear knights, or PVT, or cleric’s, if that’s how you want to play. I’m not personally interested in running dungeons with people in that gear, but there are others who would be happy to play along with you, and that’s cool that there are different mindsets in the game. The “zerk only” has been started by the anti-zerk crowd who confused “zerk is optimal” as “zerk is the only thing viable”.

Can we reiterate that “play how you want” wasn’t a quote about build diversity, it was about rewards. As in you can play how you want and still be rewarded for it. Meaning WvW and PvP would have good rewards.

I think the way to make boss battles more interesting has less to do with icons and stat buffs, and more with making bosses more animated and elaborate in their behaviour.

Want ranged damage to play a bigger role? Have the boss teleport or jump around the room a lot, making it a hassle to get maintain melee range sometimes.

Want condition damage to gain importance? Have a boss who puts up a visible force field that regularly shields itself from direct attacks, but continues to take damage from conditions throughout the shield duration.

Want to make players move away from the boss or avoid stacking? Have it cast an electrical field or flaming barrier that heavily damages anyone within range. Or put debuffs on the party which inflicts small-but-stacking AoE damage bursts. Or have the boss leap to the opposite side of the room and hurl projectiles toward the party for a bit.

Bosses should be challenging. They should make you play your class effectively. But more than that, they should be fun. There are too many dungeon bosses in GW2 that seem content to settle for those first two and get lazy on the “fun” part.

Of course, no bosses should require ranged damage, condition-based builds, or any other particular demand. But it would be cool to see more emphasis on rewarding alternate playstyles, so that every build can have their 5 minutes of fame, or a section where they feel “Alright, now is my time to shine!” Maybe if more dungeons come out, you could even have particular ones where players would say “This is the conditions-based dungeon” or “This is the ranged-combat dungeon.” It still wouldn’t be mandatory to succeed, but it would be a speedier way to get through it. Then you’d have different cosmetic gear, sigils, runes, etc., that suit those play styles, as token rewards.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure ArenaNet is all that interested in developing new dungeons at all. Hopefully an upcoming announcement will prove me wrong on that, but for now it seems like further developments instanced content are not forthcoming.

Lindbur is a god, that post is the best I’ve read in ages.

As for the OP, don’t people hate the “zerker-only” meta because it requires a specific build, with specific gear and possible a specific class. Your solution is to add more specific demands to a Dungeons?

Dungeons can be completed with any build, the problem is people want to complete them as quickly as possible, even those that don’t like playing zerk themselves tend to love others getting them through content quickly. If anything add a Hardmode option with a slightly better reward making it more attractive and challanging for the ‘elistist and wannabes’ whilst keeping the normal dungeons rewarding enough for more casual players. Meh what am I saying, nothing changes mindsets.

“Shiineeeyyyy”

PS: I do love Fyrebrand’s idea. I’d get a Sinister set along my zerk, possibly get non “leeching” Ranged weapons and respec more. As long as respec stays available. ^^

Dear OP,

we just need a fix for condition stacking in pve.

while the suggestions could be modified and make it work, the easier fix would still be just friggin hotfix condition stacking on world bosses and dungeons.

or make pve conditions all 100% more damage and 100% less duration or even more.

here’s a suggestion:
just like bosses scale depending on how many players are present to make the boss have more health and damage. the boss could scale to receive 100% more cond dmg and 100% less cond duration for every 5 players present. that shouldn’t be such a fuss since anet technically already know how to scale stuff

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>’’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

You are calling very minimal changes a completely new build just to increase the number of “builds”

What I use on my guardian (rotate between 12 different utilities):
-4/6/2/0/2 GS+Sw/F : its my basic dungeon build
- 4/5/0/0/5 GS+Sw/F : Use it in several dungeon when we need more reflect like SE path 3
- 3/5/0/4/2 Hammer : In fractal
- 6/6/0/0/2 or 4/6/0/0/4 Sceptre/Focus+torch : Lupi

Are you sure xDudisx that you are not confounding builds and role?

Thaddeus.4891:

What I use on my guardian (rotate between 12 different utilities):
-4/6/2/0/2 GS+Sw/F : its my basic dungeon build
- 4/5/0/0/5 GS+Sw/F : Use it in several dungeon when we need more reflect like SE path 3
- 3/5/0/4/2 Hammer : In fractal
- 6/6/0/0/2 or 4/6/0/0/4 Sceptre/Focus+torch : Lupi

Are you sure xDudisx that you are not confounding builds and role?

You said 12 builds and list 4. And all of them with the exception of 1 are pretty much the same.

xDudisx.5914:

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

You are calling very minimal changes a completely new build just to increase the number of “builds”

Isn’t it awesome how when you define the term “build” exactly how you need to define it to fit your narrow argument that you can carry any debate? I really love your rhetoric.

You said 12 builds and list 4. And all of them with the exception of 1 are pretty much the same.

If a 66200 Scepter/GS guardian build is “pretty much the same” as a 45005 Gs+S/f build I’m not sure what your definition of build is. Those builds all play significantly differently. If you choose to pretend otherwise, thats your problem but I have no time for people who are willfully unaware of the facts, or people who debate disingenuously. You are both.

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

What I use on my guardian (rotate between 12 different utilities):
-4/6/2/0/2 GS+Sw/F : its my basic dungeon build
- 4/5/0/0/5 GS+Sw/F : Use it in several dungeon when we need more reflect like SE path 3
- 3/5/0/4/2 Hammer : In fractal
- 6/6/0/0/2 or 4/6/0/0/4 Sceptre/Focus+torch : Lupi

Are you sure xDudisx that you are not confounding builds and role?

You said 12 builds and list 4. And all of them with the exception of 1 are pretty much the same.

I said 12 utilities right? I mean I remember writing it, i can see it right there. WHAT IS HAPPENING do I see stuff that isn’t there. I’m scare mama.

You could at least say 3. I mean that’s 3 different weapons set, cmon say at least 3. I can give you that the first 2 are not that diffrent. Its just that one allow the whole team to melee the cart in SE path 3 and the other one can’t work and need everybody to get a range weapon. But they have the same weapon and only some number are changing so pretty much the same build right.

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

You are calling very minimal changes a completely new build just to increase the number of “builds”

Isn’t it awesome how when you define the term “build” exactly how you need to define it to fit your narrow argument that you can carry any debate? I really love your rhetoric.

Oh so now you want to create a new definition of build. If I change the color of my armor does it also makes a new build for you?

You must be blind to dont see that all your “builds” are basically all the same for all the classes focusing in: direct dmg+ direct dmg %+might+vul+ might

At least anet has been doing a great job in the recent past updates:

-nerf fgs
-nerf norn elite
-nerf ferocity
-new content with bosses that you cant crit
-new content with bosses that you need to use condis
-nerf might incoming next week

keep going Anet

xDudisx.5914:

Oh so now you want to create a new definition of build. If I change the color of my armor does it also makes a new build for you?

You must be blind to dont see that all your “builds” are basically all the same for all the classes focusing in: direct dmg+ direct dmg %+might+vul+ might

Ok so what is the one and truly definition of build? You must know it all along, why do you spare us from your all mighty knowledge. Because apparently i was wrong thinking that a build is Weapons+Skills+Trait+Gear.

direct dmg+direct dmg%+might+vul+might? What happen sceptre build that focus on block, dps, endurance regen, reflect? Or the standard build that focus on dps, blind, condi removal, reflect, block? Or the hammer build that focus dps, protection, reflect?

That guy wants a ‘trinity’ MMO, he clearly wants to mold the current GW2 into his own little trinity MMO and any amount of logic won’t make it through his thick skull

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/the-trinity-system-in-gw2/4716314

fishball.7204:

That guy wants a ‘trinity’ MMO, he clearly wants to mold the current GW2 into his own little trinity MMO and any amount of logic won’t make it through his thick skull

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/the-trinity-system-in-gw2/4716314

If logic for you is post randon fallacious arguments than you have a problem, not me.

I like that you complain about my definition of “build” without offering an alternative definition. But you did manage to offer a hyperbolic comment about dyes! Again, I like your rhetoric. From a comedy perspective, not from a meaningfully informative perspective, just so you are aware.

Dyes? Don’t be ridiculous, that’s not part of your build.

Dat stale blonde human female meta doe. Something needs to be done to shake that up (Sexier charr maybe? Grow the GW2 furry playerbase?)

xDudisx.5914:

Oh so now you want to create a new definition of build. If I change the color of my armor does it also makes a new build for you?

You must be blind to dont see that all your “builds” are basically all the same for all the classes focusing in: direct dmg+ direct dmg %+might+vul+ might

At least anet has been doing a great job in the recent past updates:

-nerf fgs
-nerf norn elite
-nerf ferocity
-new content with bosses that you cant crit
-new content with bosses that you need to use condis
-nerf might incoming next week

keep going Anet

Have you played Ele? Have you played Dagger+Focus? Staff? Scepter +LH? If you have you’ll notice a very very big difference in play style. Dagger + Focus is a fluid play style where you transition between attunements in 2 different rotations to optimize your might stacking while you whip things. Staff you reign down fire, optimizing is really just making sure to start in earth attunement to get the number 2 off at the beginning of each fight. Scepter + LH is about bursting with your scepter setup and stacking might, then quickly going into LH trying to get that last blast in your fire field, then riding the LH autos till it’s out and repeating the sequence.

They may not seem like different builds to you just reading the weapon swap but the play styles change immensely. That to me is what defines a build, when the play style changes. Weapons do that very well. A S/P thief will play different than a D/D thief and even a D/P thief fills a different role than what you typically bring S/P into. Along with that a 56030 build will fill a different role than a 66002, one being very defensive in it’s dodging and one being max dps. 56300 will be all about stealthing, great for things like CM or general skips, and 66200 will be more dps but with projectile defense. Each being more subtle than the weapon differences, but each playing a different role.

I don’t really see where gear comes into it much at all. Sure you can get a bit better as a healer with some healing power, but tankiness… what’s that change? That you dont’ need to dodge? Ok, I guess that’s a play style change, but it seems a pretty lazy one. With how poorly healing power scales and the pathetic “boon duration” of givers, gear is pretty much just a slider of how important dodging will be and how much damage you can put out. I will say going condi can be interseting, but unfortunately it’s severely crippled in group content by poor design.

The only reason I have multiple gear sets fo some characters is for different rune sets, which play a bigger part in deciding my role in the group than my gear stats. Strength runes will let me cover might all the better. Even trooper runes can give me that extra condi cleanse, not sure I’d call it a great choice, but it makes a bigger impact than the difference between PVT gear and Zerk gear on the role I play in the group.

Also in response to everything being damage focused. I’ll point out that even in meta utility comes first. Taking a projectile defense is usually far more crucial than maximizing your damage. In that, the reason I stick with D/F a lot on my Ele is because of that, I love having swirling winds right there always ready, and obisidan flesh and freezing gust on the swaps. Projectile defense, Invuln, and Chill, all quite nice to have. This is getting kind of long so I’ll not give too many more examples but, Mesmers/Guards are there for this utility, and I’d think you’d find that most people like to have one of them in the party.

So I’m curious, what defines a build to you? Again, to me it’s the play style, if something changes how you play that’s a different build. What would you define it as?

dlonie.6547:

Dyes? Don’t be ridiculous, that’s not part of your build.

Dat stale blonde human female meta doe. Something needs to be done to shake that up (Sexier charr maybe? Grow the GW2 furry playerbase?)

Such blasphemy! Calling the human female meta stale. I hope you are ashamed of yourself.