(edited by thefounder.2074)
the slide to Dungeon Easymode... and so it begins...
From the patch notes they made 2 nerfs to dungeons. 1 was to searing effigy, which depending on weither or not you have poison, can be easy or hard.
The other is CoE. Sounds like they nerfed the amount of trash in the dungeon. Theres quite a bit of trash in there that makes it needlessly long. This isn’t a difficulty thing but just something that makes it take extra time for no reason. SE route 2 could definitely use some of this tweaking as well, that branch takes 1.5 hours roughly even if you don’t wipe or anything due to the sheer amount of trash/patrols on the route.
Call me when this game gets fixed…. if it ever does….
Rt 2 take “you” 1.5 hours if you don’t wipe. Doesn’t take us that long.
Cool have a cookie kid.
Call me when this game gets fixed…. if it ever does….
Those elitists keep saying explorable dungeon are easy to them. The fact that Anet balancing the difficulty because majority of player feel that they are too hard or imbalance. I still have faith in them to balance this dungeon issue while not dumbing down the difficulty too much. We can only wait and see in months from now on how they manage to balance things out.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
Those elitists keep saying explorable dungeon are easy to them. The fact that Anet balancing the difficulty because majority of player feel that they are too hard or imbalance. I still have faith in them to balance this dungeon issue while not dumbing down the difficulty too much. We can only wait and see in months from now on how they manage to balance things out.
The point is that very, very few people have actually tried all the dungeons out. Many people also are running these with level 70 greens/blues. You shouldn’t be even remotely capable of doing this w/o at least level 80 greens imo (which are like 20 silver come on).
Elitist? its not elitism its just happen that people who says its kitten easy now is because they can actually pay attention to whats going on and play good. Anet done a horrible job on making high tiered dungeon like CoE super easy. whats the point of having different paths now? whats the reason of alpha being challenging before? whats next? lupicus killed in 1min? Anet starting to disappoint me.
Hopefully they take another inch off the top of these dungeons so i can see all of your elitist rage quit posts. =)
Hopefully they take another inch off the top of these dungeons so i can see all of your elitist rage quit posts. =)
It’s easier to call people who can do these dungeon “elitists” than to say “i am not good enough to do them”.
This coming from someone who has only done a few explorables, finding some tough but fair, some surprisingly easy, and some impossible
Those elitists keep saying explorable dungeon are easy to them. The fact that Anet balancing the difficulty because majority of player feel that they are too hard or imbalance. I still have faith in them to balance this dungeon issue while not dumbing down the difficulty too much. We can only wait and see in months from now on how they manage to balance things out.
The point is that very, very few people have actually tried all the dungeons out. Many people also are running these with level 70 greens/blues. You shouldn’t be even remotely capable of doing this w/o at least level 80 greens imo (which are like 20 silver come on).
If armor stats contributed much to dungeon run this is definitely wrong. This means rich people with the best armor like exotic that you can buy from TP will run the dungeon more easily than poor people with blue/green armor. I think they should balance the stats like they do in sPVP. This will makes people stop complaining that they have underlevel armor or getting wiped because of poor stats armor while still having repair bill to avoid people to zerging too much without thinking. So it will all depends on your skill not armor.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
I hope they did nerf out some of the trash in CoE. It didn’t make it hard in an interesting way. Just boring and longer. I like hard boss fights that make you think. Huge health bars and massive damage on trash is just boring because it isn’t interesting.
Those elitists keep saying explorable dungeon are easy to them. The fact that Anet balancing the difficulty because majority of player feel that they are too hard or imbalance. I still have faith in them to balance this dungeon issue while not dumbing down the difficulty too much. We can only wait and see in months from now on how they manage to balance things out.
The point is that very, very few people have actually tried all the dungeons out. Many people also are running these with level 70 greens/blues. You shouldn’t be even remotely capable of doing this w/o at least level 80 greens imo (which are like 20 silver come on).
If armor stats contributed much to dungeon run this is definitely wrong. This means rich people with the best armor like exotic that you can buy from TP will run the dungeon more easily than poor people with blue/green armor. I think they should balance the stats like they do in sPVP. This will makes people stop complaining that they have underlevel armor or getting wiped because of poor stats armor while still having repair bill to avoid people to zerging too much without thinking. So it will all depends on your skill not armor.
There is VERY little difference between exotic gear and green gear at level 80. I have a friend that bought a full level 80 green set for his warrior for 2 gold and is doing fine in dungeons. That’s NOTHING at level 80. Level 80 exotic gear gives you a small difference but not too noticeable.
There are literally people who can’t solo normal mobs in the dungeons (not even the silver ones. REGULAR MOBS). They are clearly heavily undergeared. This is stuff I could solo as a STAFF ELEMENTALIST even when I had a mixed bag’s worth of level 77+ gear (from blue to exotics). This was Arah too so they should have been wearing level-appropriate gear to begin with.
Yeah, let’s make dungeons so hard and inaccessible that nobody but people with huge guilds and 8 hours a day can do them! Brilliant!
“Raids are the most boring thing to ever be in video games.” -Albert Einstein
Dungeons are better when they are fun. Fun is subjective but I am fairly certain that fun to most people is the ability to actually clear them without having to study, lose 5g on repairs, and lose the will to live.
Those elitists keep saying explorable dungeon are easy to them. The fact that Anet balancing the difficulty because majority of player feel that they are too hard or imbalance. I still have faith in them to balance this dungeon issue while not dumbing down the difficulty too much. We can only wait and see in months from now on how they manage to balance things out.
The point is that very, very few people have actually tried all the dungeons out. Many people also are running these with level 70 greens/blues. You shouldn’t be even remotely capable of doing this w/o at least level 80 greens imo (which are like 20 silver come on).
If armor stats contributed much to dungeon run this is definitely wrong. This means rich people with the best armor like exotic that you can buy from TP will run the dungeon more easily than poor people with blue/green armor. I think they should balance the stats like they do in sPVP. This will makes people stop complaining that they have underlevel armor or getting wiped because of poor stats armor while still having repair bill to avoid people to zerging too much without thinking. So it will all depends on your skill not armor.
There is VERY little difference between exotic gear and green gear at level 80. I have a friend that bought a full level 80 green set for his warrior for 2 gold and is doing fine in dungeons. That’s NOTHING at level 80. Level 80 exotic gear gives you a small difference but not too noticeable.
There are literally people who can’t solo normal mobs in the dungeons (not even the silver ones. REGULAR MOBS). They are clearly heavily undergeared. This is stuff I could solo as a STAFF ELEMENTALIST even when I had a mixed bag’s worth of level 77+ gear (from blue to exotics). This was Arah too so they should have been wearing level-appropriate gear to begin with.
Last time I checked the stats difference between exotic and green armor set are quite huge. Exotic gear have almost 50% more armor rating than green gear. The only small difference is between rare(yellow) and exotic gear. That’s why I’m using only rare gear atm because crafting or buying exotic gear cost a lot.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
Yeah, let’s make dungeons so hard and inaccessible that nobody but people with huge guilds and 8 hours a day can do them! Brilliant!
“Raids are the most boring thing to ever be in video games.” -Albert Einstein
Dungeons are better when they are fun. Fun is subjective but I am fairly certain that fun to most people is the ability to actually clear them without having to study, lose 5g on repairs, and lose the will to live.
Fun usually involves a challenge. That’s how grinds don’t become boring. People have played games like Contra and Super Mario for ages, when, essentially, they’re an never-changing dungeon. There was no loot. There was no achievements. Why did people absolutely love these games? Because they were challenging.
Yeah, let’s make dungeons so hard and inaccessible that nobody but people with huge guilds and 8 hours a day can do them! Brilliant!
“Raids are the most boring thing to ever be in video games.” -Albert Einstein
Dungeons are better when they are fun. Fun is subjective but I am fairly certain that fun to most people is the ability to actually clear them without having to study, lose 5g on repairs, and lose the will to live.
Fun usually involves a challenge. That’s how grinds don’t become boring. People have played games like Contra and Super Mario for ages, when, essentially, they’re an never-changing dungeon. Why? Because they were challenging.
People replay NES games because everyone loves nostalgia. Also, if you think Super Mario Bros. is hard I think you lost all credit here.
Yeah, let’s make dungeons so hard and inaccessible that nobody but people with huge guilds and 8 hours a day can do them! Brilliant!
“Raids are the most boring thing to ever be in video games.” -Albert Einstein
Dungeons are better when they are fun. Fun is subjective but I am fairly certain that fun to most people is the ability to actually clear them without having to study, lose 5g on repairs, and lose the will to live.
Fun usually involves a challenge. That’s how grinds don’t become boring. People have played games like Contra and Super Mario for ages, when, essentially, they’re an never-changing dungeon. Why? Because they were challenging.
People replay NES games because everyone loves nostalgia. Also, if you think Super Mario Bros. is hard I think you lost all credit here.
A better comparison is “Dark Soul”.
It’s a hard game, but why people are still playing it? because it’s fun and challenging not boring and challenging.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
seems to me the op liked coe cause the armor is pew pew and they got used to it after multiple runs exploiting or otherwise i do not care how now hes packin a sad cause hes going to look just like everyone else
…oh wait.. too late
The games were fun first. Challenging second. There’s a fundamental difference between games that are fun but hard as hell and games that are just made hard in hopes that people will find fun in them. Guild Wars 2 is the latter.
I can only assume that most of your enjoyment came from the fact that you could do them and others could not, not because they were fun in themselves.
If they were fun encounters and dungeons in themselves, you would still enjoy doing them. You’d just feel like they ended too quickly, due to how easy they were.
I could do them before, and even though they’re easier, I still don’t find them enjoyable.
I think that most people would not mind if the dungeons were made hard AFTER they were made fun. I’m sorry, but Guild Wars 2 dungeons are not new and interesting. Unless you haven’t played many MMOs or video games, you know this to be true, even if just subconsciously.
Yeah, let’s make dungeons so hard and inaccessible that nobody but people with huge guilds and 8 hours a day can do them! Brilliant!
“Raids are the most boring thing to ever be in video games.” -Albert Einstein
Dungeons are better when they are fun. Fun is subjective but I am fairly certain that fun to most people is the ability to actually clear them without having to study, lose 5g on repairs, and lose the will to live.
Fun usually involves a challenge. That’s how grinds don’t become boring. People have played games like Contra and Super Mario for ages, when, essentially, they’re an never-changing dungeon. Why? Because they were challenging.
People replay NES games because everyone loves nostalgia. Also, if you think Super Mario Bros. is hard I think you lost all credit here.
A better comparison is “Dark Soul”.
It’s a hard game, but why people are still playing it? because it’s fun and challenging not boring and challenging.
It is a better comparison but it’s also a different genre. Dark Souls keeps you playing because you want to see how the story will progress, to see what cool loot is around the next corner, to always be wondering where the next secret will be, to fight the next friggen amazing boss, etc. Guild Wars 2 challenge would be about holding back people as long as possible from obtaining dungeon gear. You run 1 to 3 paths over and over where no change will ever occur, and honestly, it is more like 1 path… maybe 2 with the changes, I have yet to test.
Yeah, let’s make dungeons so hard and inaccessible that nobody but people with huge guilds and 8 hours a day can do them! Brilliant!
“Raids are the most boring thing to ever be in video games.” -Albert Einstein
Dungeons are better when they are fun. Fun is subjective but I am fairly certain that fun to most people is the ability to actually clear them without having to study, lose 5g on repairs, and lose the will to live.
Fun usually involves a challenge. That’s how grinds don’t become boring. People have played games like Contra and Super Mario for ages, when, essentially, they’re an never-changing dungeon. Why? Because they were challenging.
People replay NES games because everyone loves nostalgia. Also, if you think Super Mario Bros. is hard I think you lost all credit here.
A better comparison is “Dark Soul”.
It’s a hard game, but why people are still playing it? because it’s fun and challenging not boring and challenging.It is a better comparison but it’s also a different genre. Dark Souls keeps you playing because you want to see how the story will progress, to see what cool loot is around the next corner, to always be wondering where the next secret will be, to fight the next friggen amazing boss, etc. Guild Wars 2 challenge would be about holding back people as long as possible from obtaining dungeon gear. You run 1 to 3 paths over and over where no change will ever occur, and honestly, it is more like 1 path… maybe 2 with the changes, I have yet to test.
I’m talking about the difficulty part so you can ignore the genre. The only problem here is how they execute a fun and challenging game. While explorable dungeon reward you with token that you can use to buy armor, the amount of time required to complete and the difficulty of some paths in explorable dungeon are non-sense. Why do you think people are doing speed run on a same path at CoF? because they find it the easiest and fastest one to do not because it’s fun beside there are tons of way to exploit the bugs in it. After Anet implemented DR system people are now “forced” to do all the dungeon path if you want to get full reward. I don’t mind this system as long all paths are balanced out in difficulty and amount of time that is needed to complete it. The problem is some dungeon paths are easier and faster than the other and some of them are more boring as well. I’m only hoping they can balance all the paths so they are equally enjoyable and fun to do not dumbing down the difficulty because people whining about it.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
“There is VERY little difference between exotic gear and green gear at level 80”
There is 13% between green and yellow and 13% between yellow and orange…so that is ton of difference between green and orange…
And for the record you were supposed to craft farm forge some oranges then hit the dungeons for special skins…the fact you can run them in yellows shows they are far too easy to have the special skins you are supposed to want after getting blah oranges.
Perhaps you should try the ‘nerfed’ content so you can tell us firsthand that it feels too easy now. It doesn’t to me, even though I was clearing both of the nerfed zones prepatch.
mmo mentality. someone who cant do something u can is a noob. someone who can do something you cant has no life or is an elitist.
I’m talking about the difficulty part so you can ignore the genre. The only problem here is how they execute a fun and challenging game. While explorable dungeon reward you with token that you can use to buy armor, the amount of time required to complete and the difficulty of some paths in explorable dungeon are non-sense. Why do you think people are doing speed run on a same path at CoF? because they find it the easiest and fastest one to do not because it’s fun beside there are tons of way to exploit the bugs in it. After Anet implemented DR system people are now “forced” to do all the dungeon path if you want to get full reward. I don’t mind this system as long all paths are balanced out in difficulty and amount of time that is needed to complete it. The problem is some dungeon paths are easier and faster than the other and some of them are more boring as well. I’m only hoping they can balance all the paths so they are equally enjoyable and fun to do not dumbing down the difficulty because people whining about it.
I don’t think they want to, or should, balance out all paths of a dungeon. Those paths are different difficulty for a reason (in my opinion). People keep asking for easy-medium-hard modes, but honestly they are already there. Some of the paths are easy, some are quite difficult, and that’s great. If you want to improve your game, then you can get better at your class and attack all paths, otherwise you can settle for the amount of tokens that you can comfortably get at your skill level.
R.I.P. Subject Alpha.
By balance, I think people—or at least I—mean that dungeons should be more consistent in their difficulty. Encounters shouldn’t be all over the place. Hard trash pull, then an easy boss. A hard boss that takes a lot of coordination, then a boss that requires no effort to kill.
If you wanted to defend the design, you could call the system quirky to keep you on your toes, but I don’t see rhyme or reason to their balancing. It just looks like they didn’t.
By balance, I think people—or at least I—mean that dungeons should be more consistent in their difficulty. Encounters shouldn’t be all over the place. Hard trash pull, then an easy boss. A hard boss that takes a lot of coordination, then a boss that requires no effort to kill.
If you wanted to defend the design, you could call the system quirky to keep you on your toes, but I don’t see rhyme or reason to their balancing. It just looks like they didn’t.
I can understand what you mean, Miya, though i think in practice (and maybe this is just a personal preference perhaps), varying the difficulty of the bosses is nice in a way. It gives you a bit of variation, and sometimes that feeling of “this is the easy boss, a bit of a gift from the devs before the real one arrives later”. You could call it imbalance I guess, but I think the dungeons would be boring in a way if all bosses were consistently hard/easy.
i’m not one of those “the sky is falling” criers… but i’ve been around long enough in MMOs (since meridian 59) to see the signs on the wall. i have defended, trumpeted and lauded GW2 EVERYWHERE i could. now you just took alot of my argument ammunition away from me.
One week there is a Dev Post about retaining Dungeon Difficulty, holding firm to their design philosophy of how they want players to have time to Learn the dungeons. The next week, you start to read patch notes about armor and health nerfs. i just dont even care anymore. cant fight it any longer. MMOs wil just eventually become watered down. dont fool us anymore, just start naming games “Sameness 2012, Sameness 2013”. reading between the lines here i see the affect of “low gem sales” and “player grumbling” and NCSoft’s current cutthroat business stance.
funny but the guild i joined ran a forum poll after the first week of release… asking us to rate our favorite dungeons. Crucible of Eternity was #1 by 10 votes (out of 52). now everyone is talking “meh” on voicechat. why do dungeons have to be identical? huh? why couldnt CoE become known as “the dungeon with longer fights” or “the high armor and health” dungeon? do you have some analytic somewhere that says “ALL STORYMODE DUNGEONS MUST HAVE AVERAGE COMPLETION TIMES SO THAT LITTLE BILLY CAN BE DONE BY DINNERTIME”… seems like that..
i know there is other things about GW2 that set it apart from other games… and for that im happy and feel my money was well spent; it will keep me around for a few months i guess. but this doesnt bode well when a top Dev says “we’re firm about our design philosophy” and then flipflops with “heres a happy meal dungeon with a toy in it”.
WHY OHHH WHY do people associate “HIGH HP POOL=HARD”
are you kidding me have you even tried the dungeon after they patched it?? do you even know how much they nerfed the hp of the mobs and bosses??
“Crucible of Eternity
Reduced the difficulty of creatures and bosses, particularly health and armor."
nowhere does it state that they reduced the damage the bosses and trash mobs are doing, they merely drop some of the hp and armor so that you don’t have to spend 234253245 hrs in there
which also pls get it to your head “TIME SPENT IN DUNGEON DOES NOT= HARD”
I’ve decided to drop by to share my thought.
First of all, using “arguments” like this bit “ALL STORYMODE DUNGEONS MUST HAVE AVERAGE COMPLETION TIMES SO THAT LITTLE BILLY CAN BE DONE BY DINNERTIME” makes your whole post loose around 60% of argument strength.
This is called argumentum ad hominem and generally points out that you have no leverage and you’re trying to gain some by logical fallacy.
Secondly, you call devs out on “defending their design philosophy”.
If you would follow GW2 development closely, you’d know they gave up their oroginal design philosophy that they proudly shared 2 years ago closely before release (f.e. related to dungeon rewards).
Thirdly, if you call ANet on “their design philosophy”, it would be nice if you were actually aware of what they have stated in the past and recently. Story Mode is meant for everyone. Explorable Modes are meant for organised, experienced, coordinated groups of players.
And lastly, it seems that your idea of challenging encounter is mobs having 10xhp and 10xattributes. However, this is artificial difficulty of lazy / unimaginative developers (which I am surprised made it’s way to GW2 with it’s otherwise extremely entertaining and diverse world).
A design like that serves only as a speed bump and is completely unnecessary, especially in a game that does not have a subscription fee where it serves no purpose for the owning company either.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
(edited by cherrie.8907)
The way I see it: Dungeons would be boring if the bosses were boring.
If an easy boss has interesting mechanics, I will have fun.
If a hard boss has interesting mechanics, I will have fun and feel more accomplished for beating the boss.
You also have to take into account that, when I say hard, I mean requiring more perfect execution and not requiring more time spent smashing it.
Hopefully they take another inch off the top of these dungeons so i can see all of your elitist rage quit posts. =)
this player is what will emerge as Arenanet’s thermometer. they will increasingly listen to these voices who think the “vast majority” of players find it too hard. and we other players are just “elitists”. gone is the belief that in a game, even one advertised as skill based with less gear advantage, should ever require teamwork or even a modest amount of communication or planning. already players… ALOT of players pug farm these Exp mode dungeons without saying a SINGLE word to each other. without caring even in the slightest what build’s the other players are, without caring what boons or conditions are on them. and combos are just pretty colors that accidentally pop up. rinse, repeat, profit. hence the nerf to speed farming. its already too easy.
players like this poster are the norm now.. the loud majority. when they cry ’youre just elitists" or “hardcore players need to get a life” theyre actually saying “whether i am casual or not, i demand a game where interaction with other players is completely unnecessary and teamwork and skillbased gameplay are just promotional phrases meant to differentiate us from WoW”
I said like before – explorables are not very easy and not hard as some people say. But doing some explorable for 8h and telling that it should be like that (hard), well… Goodbye, brain…
Hopefully they take another inch off the top of these dungeons so i can see all of your elitist rage quit posts. =)
this player is what will emerge as Arenanet’s thermometer. they will increasingly listen to these voices who think the “vast majority” of players find it too hard. and we other players are just “elitists”. gone is the belief that in a game, even one advertised as skill based with less gear advantage, should ever require teamwork or even a modest amount of communication or planning. already players… ALOT of players pug farm these Exp mode dungeons without saying a SINGLE word to each other. without caring even in the slightest what build’s the other players are, without caring what boons or conditions are on them. and combos are just pretty colors that accidentally pop up. rinse, repeat, profit. hence the nerf to speed farming. its already too easy.
players like this poster are the norm now.. the loud majority. when they cry ’youre just elitists" or “hardcore players need to get a life” theyre actually saying “whether i am casual or not, i demand a game where interaction with other players is completely unnecessary and teamwork and skillbased gameplay are just promotional phrases meant to differentiate us from WoW”
This is a much more legit post, and it’s where we have the real issues.
No one, should be asking for less involvement or less challenge to the game.
Interaction should be great, should be encouraged and it should be mandatory but not necessarily through voip imho.
As for the comment about the elitist rage quits, elitism has become a dirty word in gaming, I don’t blame the player in question saying this nor do I disagree with them, the attitudes of some players here and ingame is atrocious and we could profit from losing them tbh
Irony…. xD
Hopefully they take another inch off the top of these dungeons so i can see all of your elitist rage quit posts. =)
this player is what will emerge as Arenanet’s thermometer. they will increasingly listen to these voices who think the “vast majority” of players find it too hard. and we other players are just “elitists”. gone is the belief that in a game, even one advertised as skill based with less gear advantage, should ever require teamwork or even a modest amount of communication or planning. already players… ALOT of players pug farm these Exp mode dungeons without saying a SINGLE word to each other. without caring even in the slightest what build’s the other players are, without caring what boons or conditions are on them. and combos are just pretty colors that accidentally pop up. rinse, repeat, profit. hence the nerf to speed farming. its already too easy.
players like this poster are the norm now.. the loud majority. when they cry ’youre just elitists" or “hardcore players need to get a life” theyre actually saying “whether i am casual or not, i demand a game where interaction with other players is completely unnecessary and teamwork and skillbased gameplay are just promotional phrases meant to differentiate us from WoW”
Well said.
Yeah, but you could also apply that argument to the “loud majority” comment.
Whenever someone disagrees with you, you can just call them the loud majority, inflicting terrible, terrible change on the game.
The “majority” is now an insult. It used to mean, “most people.”
I’ve decided to drop by to share my thought.
First of all, using “arguments” like this bit “ALL STORYMODE DUNGEONS MUST HAVE AVERAGE COMPLETION TIMES SO THAT LITTLE BILLY CAN BE DONE BY DINNERTIME” makes your whole post loose around 60% of argument strength.
This is called argumentum ad hominem and generally points out that you have no leverage and you’re trying to gain some by logical fallacy.Secondly, you call devs out on “defending their design philosophy”.
If you would follow GW2 development closely, you’d know they gave up their oroginal design philosophy that they proudly shared 2 years ago closely before release (f.e. related to dungeon rewards).Thirdly, if you call ANet on “their design philosophy”, it would be nice if you were actually aware of what they have stated in the past and recently. Story Mode is meant for everyone. Explorable Modes are meant for organised, experienced, coordinated groups of players.
And lastly, it seems that your idea of challenging encounter is mobs having 10xhp and 10xattributes. However, this is artificial difficulty of lazy / unimaginative developers (which I am surprised made it’s way to GW2 with it’s otherwise extremely entertaining and diverse world).
A design like that serves only as a speed bump and is completely unnecessary, especially in a game that does not have a subscription fee where it serves no purpose for the owning company either.
ya i know Story mode is for everyone.. thats the point… its already easy.. so is Exp mode once players “learn the dungeon” as game director Colin Johansen is quoted as saying about 2 weeks ago “..it takes time and practice to learn how to overcome stuff..”
and “As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players.” really? im no great player. my guild is nothing special. we mostly talk about trivia while on vent while we farm these exp mode dungeons and its similiarly easy with PUG groups that do ZERO communication, show no attempt to be the “highly organized” group that the Dev’s state. and now, theyre being slowly made easier. you see no danger in this?
i’m glad i gave u the opportunity to flex your latin phrase skills. but i dont see your point. these are the stated philosophies as of 2 weeks ago. and as i stated clearly…. this is a slipperly slope argument. im just observing that MMOs start to slide towards easy when things like this happen – and so soon after launch, conspicuously admist all this crying about dungeon difficulty. i could name any of the eight MMOs ive played where this occurred (even stating ive played this many MMOs embarasses me i spend way too much time playing these, so i wont bother making examples of all 8 hehe).
i could be wrong. i HOPE im wrong. because i love the game. and no, i dont think arbitrarily high HP or Armor necessarily = challenging. but obviously its contributes? there is no science here. but you dont see any warning signs here? none? maybe im overracting then. but its just a reflex that, i hope, shows my love and worry for the game.
(edited by thefounder.2074)
I liked the part where everyone was just waiting for the first dungeon nerf to jump up and whine about how the casuals are ruining everything.
The Effigy boss has been broken from the very beginning. In fact, he was broken so badly that the widely accepted way to kill him was to ignore all mechanics and zerg him down. That means that any argument anyone might make about his difficulty being reduced is immediately moot.
Now, for those that are getting all chicken little over CoE, please keep in mind that those bosses had a crapton of health. They were the kind of bosses that you already knew you were going to beat by the time they were at 90%, because you had seen all their moves and dodged them effortlessly. The problem is that it takes 10 boring minutes to whittle away their health pool. I don’t know why some people think that the length of a fight is synonymous with difficulty, but that kind of thought process confuses me deeply, as it has no basis in reality.
Difficulty has not changed, only unnecessary time investment has. Arenanet making minor quality of life changes is not the same as passing out free dungeon tokens to anyone that knows how to push 1 and AFK (although that is how I usually finish TA).
Relax.
Guildmaster of Nerd Herd [NERD] (Tarnished Coast)
Nethalia Frostmane [Ranger], Lyzanxia Unsu [Engineer]
Torg Darkmaw [Thief], Zekka The Architect [Elementalist]
Nethalia Frostmane [Ranger], Lyzanxia Unsu [Engineer]
Torg Darkmaw [Thief], Zekka The Architect [Elementalist]
One more thing: different paths are nothing than just a slight variation to the same dungeon. I am speaking in terms of dungeons not varied enough. You really do need more dungeons, many more. The few available with different paths and different boring bosses doesn’t cut it.
I believe the reason they nerfed those encounters were simply because the stats on the bosses were not correct.
this player is what will emerge as Arenanet’s thermometer. they will increasingly listen to these voices who think the “vast majority” of players find it too hard. and we other players are just “elitists”. gone is the belief that in a game, even one advertised as skill based with less gear advantage, should ever require teamwork or even a modest amount of communication or planning.
I was just waiting for posts like these. “WAAAH PEOPLE COMPLAIN AND IF THEY CHANGE SOMETHING EVEN IF THE COMPLAINS ARE VALID THEY ONLY CATER TO WHINERS NAO!!!!! /ragequit”.
truth is they look at metrics, not what a fraction of the players whine about on the forum. the whining gives you a picture why, because the metrics only give you numbers. so when the numbers show only 15% of players actually run dungeons and the rest that doesn’t do pvp (newsflash: a lot) quits of boredom, you think they will cater to the 15%? because I’m sure the 15% will make up for the rest in gem purchases.
anet wanted a “5 man raid endgame” in dungeon form. in which game besides eq/wow was raiding popular endgame among the majority? (in before I want easy mode – I don’t, check my post history. but designing an endgame unattractive for a lot of players, no matter how they tout events (now with dr!) or dragonspawns as endgame and expecting otherwise is just naive).
and do you really want to start a discussion about how the game was advertised and turned out?
I don’t mind this system as long all paths are balanced out in difficulty and amount of time that is needed to complete it.
and that is one of the major flaws in their basic design because you CAN’T make every path equally difficult, because it’s based on the group’s ability (and if you make every path the same to achieve that there is really no point in having separate paths). not to mention that people will always choose the fastest/easiest route to get something – and you can’t fix people – It’s a bit hilarious that anet still thinks they can make every path equally “rewarding”
the “do dungeons or play something else till content update” pve endgame doesn’t make it better.
(edited by Gray.9650)